Christmas Carols Banned, Do you think they should be? Options

[iheartjohn]

The phrase "Merry Christmas" is removed from the songs in most public schools. Christmas carols banned at school events. A religious-themed float denied entry in a local parade.

Do you think this is right?

I guess this stands with the debate of having religion with schools. May I add, I don't understand why they would, since we seem to have God on everything else. (i.e., on our dollar bills it even says, In God We Trust).

[ComradeRed]

We need to bring back El Inquisition.

[miss barnes]

i think thats soo dumb. enough said

[sadolakced acid]

you think it's dumb, but what if someone wanted to have a "allah is great" float? or a "heil hitler" float?

[ComradeRed]

Or one of these babies.

You should be allowed to have whatever float you want, as long as it doesn't physically hurt anyone (like a Heil Hitler float that knocks people over when it does its salute).

---


Here's one of my favorite Holiday Seasons Carols, that is bound to bring a lighter air to this somber discussion:

VIOLENT NIGHT
BY MICHAEL O'RILEY

It was the last night of Hanukkah,
and all was a strife,
not a creature was sleeping,
not even my wife.
She ran around screaming,
throwing dishes and pans.
The menorah tipped over,
setting flame to her hands.
The burning spread upward,
soon reaching her hair,
and before we had noticed,
she was no longer there.
But the fire didn't stop,
it kept growing and growing.
We were watching TV,
without even knowing.
Timmy Jr. smelled it first.
He went to check it out.
I sat still, unworried,
regretfully, no doubt.
The kitchen ceiling gave way,
with a snap and a crack.
Soon after I noticed,
Timmy hadn't come back.
By now all was dark,
and the house was a blaze.
The true challenge now
was to flee this flame maze.
I jumped through the window,
glass flew through the sky.
I tell you this now
with a tear in my eye.
The crisp snow stained red,
my hands bruised and bleeding,
A firetruck could be heard,
police sirens leading.
Hanukkah was ruined,
now a sad time of year.
But my heart was soon blooming,
with a new Christmas cheer.
Oh Santa, my savior,
I hand my holidays to you.
Not even eight days of happiness,
was worth being a Jew.

[gelionie]

Eh... I've never heard that Christmas carols are banned... well at least in where I live.

It's so ironic that there are loads of non-Christians in my city, yet it seems like EVERYONE celebrates Christmas.

Ooops going off topic.

[sporadic]

Well, according to my American History teacher, it's okay to sing about God as long as it fits the curriculum (i.e. being in a choir, it's okay to sing)

Let's add some "Praise Allah/Jehovah/Buddha"'s on our dollar bills, eh?

[Sumiaki]

I think that this is just stupid. We try to let religion and state stay seperate. They especially try to seperate public schools from religion. What I don't get is why do people in schools get to wear those muslim caps for religious purposes yet we can't wear necklaces with crosses or anything to do with Jesus? Just food for thought.

[picaso_smile]

It definitly not right. It's CHRISTMAS. The whole thing is a celebration of Jesus's birth. Why would they ban the subject of a holiday from being celebrated? Also, if I student doesn't want to sing a song mentioning christmas they don't have to... But that's not to say other songs mentioning things such as Hannakah or Kwanza can't be mentioned.

[sadolakced acid]

crosses are allowed. students can express themselves however they wish, it's called the first ammendment.

however, schools cannot have, say, the choir required to sing christmas songs, nor can they have anything promoting christmas as it's a 'religous' holiday.

and how is it wrong to ban religon from schools?

[pandamonium]

to me its schocking, i saw that in the news today and i was like woah thats taking it over board. but then again i wouldnt like praying to allah on my knees we still have to respect other religions...

[waccoon]

eleeza,Dec 8 2004, 8:13 PM] The phrase "Merry Christmas" is removed from the songs in most public schools. Christmas carols banned at school events. A religious-themed float denied entry in a local parade.

Do you think this is right?

I guess this stands with the debate of having religion with schools. May I add, I don't understand why they would, since we seem to have God on everything else. (i.e., on our dollar bills it even says, In God We Trust).

Our dollar bills say In God We Trust and the like because everybody, and everybody was Christian/Catholic at the time the bills were designed and printed. To change billions and billions of dollar bills now would cost a massive amount of money.

[ComradeRed]

Not everyone was Christian/Catholic. If they were, why did Maryland write religious toleration for Jews into it's first law?

If you read the writings of Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, or Thomas Paine, they were NOT Catholic Christians. They were Deists, which is a sort of Christianity that's close to Unitarianism today, but not entirely the same.

In fact, very few people then WERE Catholics (except in Maryland and Delaware). America was a Protestatn country.

[picaso_smile]

Not everyone was Christian/Catholic. If they were, why did Maryland write religious toleration for Jews into it's first law?

If you read the writings of Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, or Thomas Paine, they were NOT Catholic Christians. They were Deists, which is a sort of Christianity that's close to Unitarianism today, but not entirely the same.

In fact, very few people then WERE Catholics (except in Maryland and Delaware). America was a Protestatn country.

But I believe the point is that they believed in God....

[miss barnes]

you think it's dumb, but what if someone wanted to have a "allah is great" float? or a "heil hitler" float?

oh i didnt read the part about a float being denied, but i still think its dumb...and there isnt anything wrong w/ Allah...just another word for God, but Hitler....

[azn_r4pf4n]

hmmm... well, some ppl in my school arent christian/catholic and they celebrate it anywayz.. Christmas celebrates the birth of Christ, and those who arent christian/catholic may have heard it b4. But they just go think about the gift-giving, etc..

I dont really know though... its been about 2004 years since the birth of Christ, and many ppl have gotten so much used to Christmas and Christmas carols that they sing along, no matter what religion, and most ppl r used to it.

I'll reply back later when i get some thinking. For now, im outz.

[lovescream]

not debating.
just adding.
i heard that on the news and our school totally got freaked out and went balistic.
O_O It's really stupid.
I say it's not right.

[sammi rules you]

they don't have to ban christmas carols..just don't make the people who don't practice that religion sing it.

me, my friend taylor, and this girl i'm not really friends with and kinda hate brittanie are all half jewish (though i don't practice it) and we go around singing "dreidl dreidl" all day when other people are singing christmas carols. =P

(yes dreidl is spelled right, i even looked it up before i posted this to make sure..)

[HelloSunshine]

Last night, my school had a Christmas Program. Our school's Catholic...well...at schools that aren't a specific religion, I don't think it's too appropriate to say Merry Christmas..but rather Happy Holidays...only because not everyone will be a certain religion!

[Kriegsgefangene]

To most people now, christmas carols are sung outside peoples' houses, while hoping for some pudding or maybe a couple bucks.

I never really cared what they had said. I didn't care to learn them.

I just said the words absentmindedly. And maybe opened my presents, because presents are pretty cool.

[waccoon]

they don't have to ban christmas carols..just don't make the people who don't practice that religion sing it.

me, my friend taylor, and this girl i'm not really friends with and kinda hate brittanie are all half jewish (though i don't practice it) and we go around singing "dreidl dreidl" all day when other people are singing christmas carols. =P

(yes dreidl is spelled right, i even looked it up before i posted this to make sure..)

Why should the people who don't celebrate Christmas be deprived of singing?

[sammi rules you]

Why should the people who don't celebrate Christmas be deprived of singing?

they can sing, just don't make em sing christmas songs if they don't wanna sing them.

[waccoon]

they can sing, just don't make em sing christmas songs if they don't wanna sing them.

That's the point, you're depriving them of a chance to sing as much as the other children.

[sammi rules you]

i'm saying it should be equal, and they should be allowed to sing songs of their religion as well. if they wanna sing christmas songs, they can go right ahead. it wouldn't be depriving them, it would just be not MAKING them sing songs they don't want to sing.

[waccoon]

i'm saying it should be equal, and they should be allowed to sing songs of their religion as well. if they wanna sing christmas songs, they can go right ahead. it wouldn't be depriving them, it would just be not MAKING them sing songs they don't want to sing.

But when you see all your friends and all your peers singing, and you're the only one sitting down - that's not a very nice feeling, is it? It marks you as different, and you want to repress your religion because it's not what everyone else is into.

[Kriegsgefangene]

But when you see all your friends and all your peers singing, and you're the only one sitting down - that's not a very nice feeling, is it? It marks you as different, and you want to repress your religion because it's not what everyone else is into.

Nope. When everyone else is up singing, I stay sitting because I don't want to make an idiot of myself.

[*tweeak*]

um, hell no. how are people going to be diversified, and accept other cultures if theyre constanly being hidden and pushed aside?

[iheartjohn]

When everyone else is up singing, I stay sitting because I don't want to make an idiot of myself.

Wait, when people are singing carols, you stay seated to not be an idiot?

Do you celebrate Christmas? (I'm not trying to be rude, I was just asking)

[ryfitaDF]

concidering christmas is now a corprate holiday, and it was manifest destiny that told us to kill the natives and steal this land, why not praise god in school? it's not like we're forcing people with different beliefes to love god and jesus.

[sadolakced acid]

and why not praise jesus? why not? then we can make army uniforms with a nice big cross on them, and go reclaim the holy land in the rightful name of the lord.

this is why the founding fathers left religion out of the constitution; because they wanted us to be christian. why don't we just declare we're a christian nation and be done with it?

what's with this 'Mr. President' crap? we know it should be 'god's divine ruler on earth'

why not praise god in schools? oh, it would make our country great. i mean, who really cares about freedom? all people do with it is crash planes into buildings? if we said we all belived in jesus, this would never happen. the reason we're taking heavy casualties in the middle east is because we won't admit it's for jesus. if we did, then god would protect our troops and we wouldn't get shot that much.

praise the lord! I AM AN AMERICAN, your loyal servant. i shall blow up the infidel because my school taught me so. i will kill my own brother because he doesn't belive. i will BE AN AMERICAN!!!!!

and remeber, jesus loves you.

[ComradeRed]

You know, there was actually a proposal to make the President's title "His Excellency the President, defender of the United States and protector of their liberties".

[sadolakced acid]

i know. but george washington was a great man who knew that they had just defeated a 'king george' and putting another 'king george' in his place was not a good thing to do.

[*mona lisa*]

THAT IS THE STUPIDEST THING I HAVE EVER HEARD.
i sort of celebrate christmas and i mean i sing christmas songs and i get into the jolly holiday mood and i am not christian. that is plain dumb!

[iheartjohn]

THAT IS THE STUPIDEST THING I HAVE EVER HEARD.
i sort of celebrate christmas and i mean i sing christmas songs and i get into the jolly holiday mood and i am not christian. that is plain dumb!

Then what does Christmas mean to you? Christmas is technically celebrating the birth of Christ, so if you don't believe in the meaning, you're just celebrating it to get presents?

Christmas is about giving, not just getting presents. It's awful how often people forget about that.

that is plain dumb!

And are you saying that Christianity is dumb?

[*mSz_dOrk_anGeL*]

Jesus.
It's f**king Christmas.
If we can go all La De Da over Kwanzaa which was invented in the 1950s
Then why can't we sing Jingle Bells?
If you the parent doesn’t like what’s going on at a school, take your kid out.
It's a free country. You CANNOT tell us we can't celebrate a Holiday.

"A Christian feast on December 25 or among some Eastern Orthodox on January 7 that commemorates the birth of Christ and is usually observed as a legal holiday"

That's what Christmas is. We are celebrating the birth of our Savoir. Over the years, it has not only been turned into a celebration of our Lord, but a Hallmark-jump-on-the-Holiday-bandwagon. It's something now very commercial.

In the end, Christmas and the Holiday season is a time for Family, Peace, and Fun.

A Christmas Carol is just a song.
What?
Are they gonna ban singing 'Getting Jiggy Wit It'?

Stop being so bitchy and get over yourselves and find something else to complain about that DOESNT ruin the holiday sprit.

[sadolakced acid]

excuse me, some people like the comercailized christmas.

[azn_r4pf4n]

our founding fathers were religious 2... im actually amazed they put something religious on the Declaration of Independence.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

it wasnt a thought that the founding fathers probably thought about, cuz about that time, 99% of the colonists were white and mostly religious. we're so used to christmas, as i said b4.

[Spirited Away]

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Many Founding Fathers were Deists, which can easily explain the "endowed by their Creator" part.

[ComradeRed]

99% of the colonists were white and mostly religious.

Uh...have you ever heard of slaves? I'm pretty sure they were more than 1% of the population...

[azn_r4pf4n]

Uh...have you ever heard of slaves? I'm pretty sure they were more than 1% of the population...

whoops forgot that.

[tofumonzter]

whats so religion about merry christmas? most people only celebrate santa is back to town. not like... they are celebrating Jesus was born..

or they should change it to. Merry Santa?

[sadolakced acid]

for that, refer to 'you can't have it both ways'

but i for one, like the commercialized christmas that emphasises family time, and giving. jesus who?

[picaso_smile]

I don't think they should... But there should be songs from different religions also. If a parent feels uncomfortable with thier child singing one of the songs then they don't have to.

[sadolakced acid]

alright. today kids we're singing a new song. you don't have to sing it if you don't like it.


heil jesus he loves you
heil he love you like michael jackson
heil the priests love you like that too
heil just ask the choir boys
look it's a holiday
little boys, get ready
to celebrate christ
with your local priest!


(chorus)
F--- jesus!
F--- jesus!
because he wants you

look here comes St. Nick on a sleigh
i wonder if you were good last year to the preist
because if you weren't then down he comes
without a gift

(chorus)

(chorus)

heil! jesus loves you
and have a happy holiday.


now, all you christians ready to flame, you shouldn't be offended, right? i didn't ask you to sing it... so you should be fine. Right?
right? right? i mean, i didn't ask you to sing along. you can just sit down and be quite, and no body's feelings get's hurt, right?


` i was going to write a song praising allah, but then someone will tell me allah is god or something and this seems... more offending, like it is when you play a game where you repeat what the last person says, and the last person says "i celebrate the birth of jesus christ, our savior" and you say "you celebrate the birth of jesus christ, your savior" and everyone stares at you? yes the reason for my severe anti-christianity sentiment is rooted in an actually cause, not satan. you can thank other christians for that.

` and you still shoudln't be offended. you didn't have to sing along.

* note. i don't actually belive that. i just wrote what i thought would offend the people saying "why not christmas in school" the most. *

[iheartjohn]

^^ No one is asking you to say "Heil Jesus, your savior" but people shouldn't bash on others' religions.

It's not freedom of belief/speech when you do that. It's racism.

[ComradeRed]

You know the "Heil" in Sieg Heil does mean Salvation, right?

[sunissed14127]

i think its wrong. The whole thing is because of religion/customs. I think we should be able to because like other religions/customs, we should be able to say "merry christmas" and sing xmas carols, and the other religions can do the same.

[heyyfrankie]

i don't know. i try to stay out of confilcts regarding religion. So many people get huge debates about religion these days.

but i think that people should be able to say and show whatevery they want.

[sammi rules you]

i'm gonna be a teacher and i'm gonna make my class make driedles...cause i had to make a christmas tree in 1st grade, whether i wanted to or not cause it's what the class was doing. i remember, cause i didn't wanna get my hands gluey..

am i allowed to make the kids make dreidles? it should be ok.

[sadolakced acid]

hmm... i got a lot less flames then i expected...

I think...tho... that christmas songs, etc. are fine for elementary schoolers, as long as other holidays are covered, etc.

and in middle school, christmas gives the end of year a bit of fun, as long as it's still tied into school,

and in high school, it gives exams a big of lightening up.

but the point is, people can be offended of some christmas songs.

i mean, jingle bells is quite safe,

but someone could make a christmas song that was like, praise the birth of jesus christ, our lord and savior.

and that would offend me.

[*tweeak*]

people can be offended by a fork, but that doesnt mean we should stop using them

[sadolakced acid]

so i get to say

F--- Jesus all i want?

[weirdness]

Uhh...


Christmas carols.... no "Merry Christmas"?

[sadolakced acid]

This is a christmas carol banned.

i'm bolding offensive parts.

"Silent night, holy night
All is calm, all is bright
Round yon Virgin Mother and Child
Holy Infant so tender and mild
Sleep in heavenly peace
Sleep in heavenly peace

Silent night, holy night!
Shepherds quake at the sight
Glories stream from heaven afar
Heavenly hosts sing Alleluia!
Christ, the Saviour is born
Christ, the Saviour is born

Silent night, holy night
Son of God, love's pure light
Radiant beams from Thy holy face
With the dawn of redeeming grace
Jesus, Lord, at Thy birth
Jesus, Lord, at Thy birth "

now tell me this is a purely holiday song, with nothing to do with christianity or promoting jesus.

[relicwcircuits]

if ppl can rap about things like killing parents and underage sex, why cant ppl sing christmas carols like that?

[sadolakced acid]

you aren't allowed to rap about those things in school.

likewise, these bannings are not everywhere, just in school events.

[Teesa]

This is a christmas carol banned.

i'm bolding offensive parts.

"Silent night, holy night
All is calm, all is bright
Round yon Virgin Mother and Child
Holy Infant so tender and mild
Sleep in heavenly peace
Sleep in heavenly peace

Silent night, holy night!
Shepherds quake at the sight
Glories stream from heaven afar
Heavenly hosts sing Alleluia!
Christ, the Saviour is born
Christ, the Saviour is born

Silent night, holy night
Son of God, love's pure light
Radiant beams from Thy holy face
With the dawn of redeeming grace
Jesus, Lord, at Thy birth
Jesus, Lord, at Thy birth "

now tell me this is a purely holiday song, with nothing to do with christianity or promoting jesus.

well if its a christmas carol like that one, i probably wouldn't be offended, but i would be extremely uncomfortable, but other carols, without the reference to any religion would be okay, and shouldn't be banned.

[inthemudhole]

you think it's dumb, but what if someone wanted to have a "allah is great" float? or a "heil hitler" float?

That would be perfectly fine with me.
Just because there's something to do with another religion, culture, etc. doesn't mean that you personally have to worship it or participate in it.
I just with people could go along with things.
If you don't like something, then don't participate.
But do you have to ruin things for everyone else?
Selfishness..

[*Weird addiction*]

its NOT right! wow,it isnt banned here in belgium,we just dont sing it...but whoa,why the f**k shld it be banned

[eggnite]

This is a christmas carol banned.

i'm bolding offensive parts.

"Silent night, holy night
All is calm, all is bright
Round yon Virgin Mother and Child
Holy Infant so tender and mild
Sleep in heavenly peace
Sleep in heavenly peace

Silent night, holy night!
Shepherds quake at the sight
Glories stream from heaven afar
Heavenly hosts sing Alleluia!
Christ, the Saviour is born
Christ, the Saviour is born

Silent night, holy night
Son of God, love's pure light
Radiant beams from Thy holy face
With the dawn of redeeming grace
Jesus, Lord, at Thy birth
Jesus, Lord, at Thy birth "

now tell me this is a purely holiday song, with nothing to do with christianity or promoting jesus.

I dont think its "a purely holiday song" I think its a purely Christmas song.

[sadolakced acid]

Ahh....

EXACTLY.

it's a christmas song. this was a HOLIDAY school event.

[eggnite]

Ahh....

EXACTLY. 

it's a christmas song.  this was a HOLIDAY school event.

I didnt say it was right or wrong for school. I just said that I think its a Christmas song.