Intelligent Design, yes, another religion related topic Options

[Spirited Away]

PA school board says it's okay to teach Creationism, or "intelligent design".

Funny thing is people, that they say "it's not fair to teach kids one thing, but not another" and that they wanted a "balanced representation".

Now then, I ask you where is balance in teaching Creationsim, without teaching what Buddha teaches, what Mohammed teaches, what Hindu gods teach?

Don't get me wrong, I do believe in Creationism to a certain extent so I would not mind taking the course. I only wanted to point out how silly these people are for coming up with such a problematic arguement.

[*tweeak*]

i think they assume by balancing out the majorities, they cover all grounds. which of course they dont, but they cant spend all year on one reletively iimportant (since everything is theoretical) topic when there is so much more to learn, so i suppose that teaching at least 2 sides if not all, is better than just 1

[Spirited Away]

Then why not just teach a little bit of Creationism, Evolution, and everything else with equal emphasis? After all, they were after a "balanced presentation". You don't spend too much time on Creationism and Evolution then you can fit everything else in just fine.

A balanced presentation would include info from all points of views, not just from the majority.

[*tweeak*]

because its the same as major vs minor parties. majorities always take priority, while minorities are brushed aside. i think it largely depends on what age group is being tought as well. more in depth coverage can be tought in higher level classes, or in schools primarily geared torwards a certain religion. most classes do not cover either creationism or evolution in great depth, so if you shorten them even more, than they may as well not be tought at all because there will not be understanding

[sadolakced acid]

because there isn't enough time and money.

no religon has logic on it's side. evolution does, and it relates directly to biology. therefore, it is taught in biology classes. religions have faith on thier side, which cannot be taught.

evolution isn't going against creationism in any way.

there are two main facets of evolution:

natural selection: this has been scientifically proven with flys ( about 30 generations)

speciation: harder to prove, but it has been with flys (about 70 generations)

now, my biology textbook had a sticker in it saying evolution was 'only a theory' and it 'wasn't proven'

yet here are some theories:

the earth has molten rock in it.
why electricity works
the model of the atom
etc.

and evolution is proven.

i also don't see why some creationists see evolution and creationism as contradictory

it's like saying michalangelo carved this statue ( creationism) or he used a chisel ( evolution)

[pandamonium]

now, my biology textbook had a sticker in it saying evolution was 'only a theory' and it 'wasn't proven'

Yea i was reading about that before like about a week ago.. Remember that whole thing with "Darwins theory of evolution" yea well i forgot what state it was in but before they werent allowed to teach evolution because darwin had a theory on humans evolving from a simpler form and now some text books that are in that area were put a sticker having a disclaimer. The disclaimer was about how evolution can be taught but can be a possiblity. it was on most of the text books cause parents of the students had a meeting for that stuff.

so i agree with that ... that it should be taught but it should be said that it can be a possibility either creationism or evolution.

[sammi rules you]

now, my biology textbook had a sticker in it saying evolution was 'only a theory' and it 'wasn't proven'

they had a story about that on channel 1..(school news channel thingy that our school watches) i don't think that's right. creationism is also just a theory. there's many theories out there, and if you're going to consider more than one, then put them all in there. the only reason evolution is in science books is because it's scientific.

[ComradeRed]

Intelligent design is not the same as creationism. ID is the belief that some other superintelligent lifeform (alien) came to Earth and created everyone. A leading ID sect is the Raelians (www.rael.org).

[Spirited Away]

I'm sorry, I guess I should have made it clearer.

Calling the course "intelligent design" is noted as a veiled attempt to bring Creationism to public classrooms thus I call it for what it is: Creationism.

“Intelligent design” is defined by the article as the thought that "the universe is so complex that it must have been created by an unspecified higher power" and is supported by many Christians. So unless they--Christians who supports "intelligent design" in the classroom--"serve two masters", like sikdragon like to say, then they must believe that the alien is God.

because its the same as major vs minor parties. majorities always take priority, while minorities are brushed aside. i think it largely depends on what age group is being tought as well. more in depth coverage can be tought in higher level classes, or in schools primarily geared torwards a certain religion. most classes do not cover either creationism or evolution in great depth, so if you shorten them even more, than they may as well not be tought at all because there will not be understanding

So because minorities are so few (sarcastic) in numbers, we should just make it mandatory for them to learn about the belief of others while others remain ignorant about minority beliefs?

Yes, I understand that there isn't enough time to squeeze all that knowledge in one course, why not just not add intelligent design at all? As if people don't learn enough of it or Creationism in the outside world.

[sadolakced acid]

i'm sorry, i think some of you didn't understand me.

evolution has been proven, that's why it's taught.

PROVEN.

sure, there are other possibilities, but evolution is PROVEN.

and it's SCIENTIFIC that's why it's taught in SCIENCE.

don't worry i'd object if Evolution were taught in a Religious studies class.

[ComradeRed]

What if the religion believs in evolution?

[sadolakced acid]

then we should all be communist because then everyone would be atheist and we wouldn't have these problems.

Workers of the world, UNITE!

[CrimsonArchangel]

Just idle curiosity again.

To those that believe in evolution. If I remember correctly, evolution is an ongoing process that supposedly doesn't stop. Why then, I ask, we have not seem some... monkey-human hybrid (now, or some time before), or a half bird-half lizard thing? Another thing. How do you (general statement) say that the bacteria and gases and what not that started to create the world as we know it (I'm talking about the Big Bang and the whole prebiotic soup thing) came to be? Did they just... appear? *I strongly believe in creationism, but I'm not trying to say that that is the only thing to believe because humans have evolved, but *not* from monkeys. All I'm trying to do is point out somethings that don't quite make sense to me about evolution.*

That said, back on topic, I think the only reason they do teach evolution is because it has to do with science, obviously. Anything that has to do with religion will be opposed.. (did that make sense? ). Anyhoo, why not make "Intelligent Design" or "Creationism", however you want to call it, an optional class to learn? I mean, sure, learn about evolution, but just because some things *do make sense* and can be scientifically proven, but not all.

Blah, that sounded so... not coherent...

[Spirited Away]

To those that believe in evolution. If I remember correctly, evolution is an ongoing process that supposedly doesn't stop. Why then, I ask, we have not seem some... monkey-human hybrid (now, or some time before), or a half bird-half lizard thing?

We have gone a long way from then. Evolution mosted likely happens because there is a need to evolve to make a certain species more adept to hunt, breathe, to survive, or whatever the case may be. As for monkey-human stuff, why would we want to climb trees? Or what can lizards benefit from growing wings?

There is an ongoing evolution of baterial genomes and also the evolution of influenza... etc.

There are, in theory, many evidences for evolution and calling it a theory doesn't make a guess or something thought out of the blue. There is the theory of gravity, but I don't think too many people doubt that. Why would the theory of evolution be any less qualified?

Eh, I don't know (I struggled to make an A in science classes). As for offering "Intelligent Design" as an optional course, can't we also offer "Reincarnation and Karma..." as an optional study as well?

[sadolakced acid]

we didn't evolve from monkeys.

in no way did we evolve from monkeys.

it's like saying your brother/ sister gave birth to you, because you're related.

one of the more misunderstood concepts of evolution.



- humans and APES decended from a common ancestor, which HAS been found.

homo erectus - the common ancestor with chimps and humans. millions of years ago. millions.

[espionage]

We should define the theory of evolution as a religion.

And what non-believers (of any "religion) believe is also a religion.

We really shouldn't teach anything not proven, then.

[Spirited Away]

And what non-believers (of any "religion) believe is also a religion.

Uh, no.

It's called concept, idea, thought...etc, but NOT religion. They are distinctly different, thus the different names.

I hope you never make the mistake of saying freethinkers belong to any kind of religion again.

We really shouldn't teach anything not proven, then. 

Essentially, both sides argue that they are right and both have proofs so you can't really say that creationism and evolution aren't proven. It just depends on which side you believe to have more substantial proof, or at least, that's how I think about it.

[sadolakced acid]

please read the previous posts...
or read it here

EVOLUTION IS PROVEN

refer to previous posts for the proof.

[NoSex]

Intelligent Design is not a science and consequently should not be taught in a science room.

[sprezzatura]

^I concur. Intelligent Design is just pseudoscience.

[kimmytree]

I strongly believe in Creationism, but there are some things about evolution that I do believe. I think its ridiculous that there was a big bang. But, I think its extremely ignorant that Christians and other people believe that the earth is only a few thousand years old, when it is indeed millions of years old.

Ughhh. I go to a Christian private school, so they pretty much run down everything except for what they believe. They even fail to mention parts of evolution. They just pick out certain things that they can somehow "prove" to us are wrong.

[flc]

Funny thing is people, that they say "it's not fair to teach kids one thing, but not another" and that they wanted a "balanced representation".

Now then, I ask you where is balance in teaching Creationsim, without teaching what Buddha teaches, what Mohammed teaches, what Hindu gods teach?

Well, the majority of the people in this country are undoubtedly Christian, even though I agree.

I do not think that "intelligent design" should be taught at all. They're just trying to put a fancy name on something that's religious and requires faith. There's NO WAY you can prove that a higher being created all of this, like with a flick of a wand. I'm not saying that you can easily prove evolution, or else there wouldn't be so much debate on it, but evolution is purely secular and is appropriate for a public school classroom.

Where it should belong though, is in a world religions class, though. Not in a science class.

[AngelinaTaylor]

Just idle curiosity again.

To those that believe in evolution. If I remember correctly, evolution is an ongoing process that supposedly doesn't stop. Why then, I ask, we have not seem some... monkey-human hybrid (now, or some time before), or a half bird-half lizard thing? Another thing. How do you (general statement) say that the bacteria and gases and what not that started to create the world as we know it (I'm talking about the Big Bang and the whole prebiotic soup thing) came to be? Did they just... appear? *I strongly believe in creationism, but I'm not trying to say that that is the only thing to believe because humans have evolved, but *not* from monkeys. All I'm trying to do is point out somethings that don't quite make sense to me about evolution.*

That said, back on topic, I think the only reason they do teach evolution is because it has to do with science, obviously. Anything that has to do with religion will be opposed.. (did that make sense? ). Anyhoo, why not make "Intelligent Design" or "Creationism", however you want to call it, an optional class to learn? I mean, sure, learn about evolution, but just because some things *do make sense* and can be scientifically proven, but not all.

Blah, that sounded so... not coherent...

1. Species have evolved when there's been a need to adapt.

2. "Did they just appear?" Well, I don't see how you can use that against evolution. I can use the same thing for creationism. Who created your god? Did he just "appear"?

Also.. There was a trial about whether Intelligent Design should be taught in schools or not, and the request for teaching it has been declined, simply because it was concluded that they're trying to get religion in the classroom.

And by the way, evolution makes a lot more sense than creationism. Also, it's a scientific fact.

Taylor``

[*mipadi*]

I strongly believe in Creationism, but there are some things about evolution that I do believe. I think its ridiculous that there was a big bang.

Evolution and the creation of the universe are two entirely separate things.

[*Uronacid*]

they are all theories and they are all just as plausible as the next... personality believing in a god that can cause any thing to happen and create anything that exists makes more sense to me than leaveing everything up to random chances and mutations