'04 Presidential Debate, President Bush vs Senator Kerry Options

[inlonelinessidie]

I was wondering if anyone watched the Presidential Debate yesterday, or if you're going to watch the following ones? I watched it and I thought it was a good debate, however I wish they would've talked about the draft. Anyways what did you guys think about it?

[sweetdreamsx3]

I think Kerry owned Bush. Bush barely got any good answers and halfway through the whole debate, I'm listening more to Kerry's side on issue than Bush's.

[*jooleeah*]

Yeah, i watched the debate. it was rather annoying for me, haha. I think Kerry did well on answering the questions, but kept on changing his mind. And Bush didn't do a great job...he kept on stuttering and stuff o_0 but i think he stayed strong on his opinions and such.

[nyctophiliac]

i saw a little bit of it but i wasn't really paying attention...
GEORGE W. BUSH `04!
Steph

[inthemudhole]

I saw a bit.. not much, but a bit.
It bored me.

[inlonelinessidie]

Actually if you paid attention to what Kerry was saying, he didn't change his mind. He stated that in fact he did agree that Saddam was a threat, but that the President did the wrong thing by waging war. Not hard to understand.

[StarryEyedSurpri...]

yeah i watched it..it was pretty good

[aaaaaaaaaaaaa]

Kerry did do a good job of the way he answered the questions....Unless of course you wanted him to do a bad job, then he did a bad job of answering the questions...And if you didn't want him to do a good or bad job, you'll be happy to know that none of his answers we're really his but rather a 3rd parties answers that Mr. Kerry decided to give in response to the questions. If you are offended by 3rd parties......



-Basically what Kerry does on everything, but he did do a pretty good job of answering his questions. Bush I think is very respectable in how he brought forward a personal side of both the canidates by thanking Kerry's daughters for being so kind to his own. I'm a Bush dude all the way because I don't like how Kerry flip-flops on every issue (or the majority of them). Bush stands firm on his resolutions and decisions, where as Kerry wavers to what he thinks the voters wants to here...and in some cases, thats how the political system goes...but don't try to appeal to EVERYONE by switching your opinions more than your suits and ties.

I also don't apperciate the way Kerry has attempted to use his service in Vietnam as leverage into his election as president. I, for one, don't believe Vietnam is so far in the past that Americans are ready to talk about it and see it the way Kerry is trying to use it. Yea, movies and TV Shows are great, they're entertainment; but it's just that. We're not ready to come in full contact with the horrors of Vietnam, and unfortunatley a lot of people lost respect for Kerry because of how he is going about his campaigning.


Just my opinion.

[sugarcultluver]

kerry didnt even say his plan and he lied about the subways being closed. CuTeSEXYnHOT u rock!

[inlonelinessidie]

Not going against Bush here, because I'm sure he's a great man. But I do know that I wouldn't want him to lead my country for another 4 years. Just my beliefs too. The war is a key factor in why I chose Kerry and hope he wins. We totally could've done better and now I think the right person for the job would be him.

[sugarcultluver]

Kerry did do a good job of the way he answered the questions....Unless of course you wanted him to do a bad job, then he did a bad job of answering the questions...And if you didn't want him to do a good or bad job, you'll be happy to know that none of his answers we're really his but rather a 3rd parties answers that Mr. Kerry decided to give in response to the questions. If you are offended by 3rd parties......



-Basically what Kerry does on everything, but he did do a pretty good job of answering his questions. Bush I think is very respectable in how he brought forward a personal side of both the canidates by thanking Kerry's daughters for being so kind to his own. I'm a Bush dude all the way because I don't like how Kerry flip-flops on every issue (or the majority of them). Bush stands firm on his resolutions and decision
I also don't apperciate the way Kerry has attempted to use his service in Vietnam as leverage into his election as president. I, for one, don't believe Vietnam is so far in the past that Americans are ready to talk about it and see it the way Kerry is trying to use it. Yea, movies and TV Shows are great, they're entertainment; but it's just that. We're not ready to come in full contact with the horrors of Vietnam, and unfortunatley a lot of people lost respect for Kerry because of how he is going about his campaigning.


Just my opinion.

u also rock

[silver-rain]

yeah, i listened to some of it. it sounded like Kerry did a good job. and yeah, Bush kept on stuttering and stuff.

[exile]

ima probably sound nerdy seying this, but i think both candidates sucked during that debate. bush's stoopid blank face expressions when he didn't have anything to say, then repeating things 239842374 times, didn't help his image, but then again, even tho kerry spoke really well, he was really vague. lyk "i have a plan, bush doesn't". he constantly says that in different ways so it doesn't sound as repetetive, but he never even describes a little bit of his plan. all he babbles about is "i have a plan i have a plan". for now, i hate both candidates.

[rainnydaiis]

... exile i respect your opinion but in a debate you must repeat yourself to get it into their brains.. and i found yesterdays debate very very interesting and i will watch the other 2 =P

[highly_evolved]

i couldnt watch it but its true that they wernt allowed to talk to one another right? isnt that what a debate is..?

[aaaaaaaaaaaaa]

That is one of the rules I believe, but both talked to each other. I enjoyed the fact they did, it lightend the mood and made both seem more human.

[inlonelinessidie]

They weren't allowed to move or speak directly to eachother.

[pbear]

I watched a bit, wasn't really interesting to me.
Bush kept stuttering, Kerry kept on being vague.
I might watch the other 2, but it's not a given.

[Retrogressive]

If you didn't see the 2000 debate was on a week ago and bush totally owned Gore's ass. Was he just scared that Kerry was so direct? Or is Bush losing his "edge" I think Kerry did a wonderful job.

BTW: why weren't they aloud to talk to each other?

[FALLENstar009]

Actually if you paid attention to what Kerry was saying, he didn't change his mind. He stated that in fact he did agree that Saddam was a threat, but that the President did the wrong thing by waging war. Not hard to understand.

Thats true. He didn't change his mind and admitted to his flip flops. After a while i actually understood it. And i saw bush's reaction to everything they had to say

[inlonelinessidie]

BTW: why weren't they aloud to talk to each other?

Rules that Bush wanted. Makes you wonder doesn't it?

[veve]

I don't think it was that they COULDN'T talk to each other ..... I'm pretty sure that the rules stated that they weren't allowed to ask each other questions.

[sunissed14127]

lol....i think kerry totally owned bush lol VOTE KERRY

[rainnydaiis]

yes vote kerry and USA will be a better place =P

[inlonelinessidie]

I don't think it was that they COULDN'T talk to each other ..... I'm pretty sure that the rules stated that they weren't allowed to ask each other questions.

Yes, I'm sorry I meant to write ask each other direct questions.

[MasterNe0]

I didn't watch it since I had other things to do but from what I heard, Kerry was good.

[Retrogressive]

i totally love you inlonelinessidie. I love your topics they rock! Yes, Kerry promises a lot of stuff and I hope that he can fufill them but we CANNOT have another four yrs. with Bush in office. I think Bush has done a lot of things to handicap Kerry, how "unexpecting".

[Looow]

I think Kerry owned Bush. Bush barely got any good answers and halfway through the whole debate, I'm listening more to Kerry's side on issue than Bush's.

yes yes yes. lol KERRY OWNED BUSHHH, BABY!!!

[sugarcultluver]

cmon you gotta say that Bush rocks way more!!

[inlonelinessidie]

i totally love you inlonelinessidie. I love your topics they rock!

Aw thanks, lol.

cmon you gotta say that Bush rocks way more!!

It's not about who rocks way more or who has more facial expressions when they talk. If that's the case why don't we just give the election to any ol' Joe who can act? No, I care about the issues, and by far Bush and I differ on the issues.

[aaaaaaaaaaaaa]

LOL-Could always be like my friends who don't like either side and are going to make T-shirts that say:


Kerry's shirt:
"Oh yea?! Well you're retarded! Who's president now?!"

Bush's shirt:
"Oh yea?! Well you're ugly! Who's president now?!"

[gigglez]

hehe, i hadda watch it for hw. but anyway, i dink kerry is WAAAAAAAAAYY better then bush. bush makes me sleepy, lolz. n he doesnt have good answers to anything, he just goes like ummmmm....... *7 second pause* umm... blah blah balh

[inlonelinessidie]

LOL-Could always be like my friends who don't like either side and are going to make T-shirts that say:


Kerry's shirt:
"Oh yea?! Well you're retarded! Who's president now?!"

Bush's shirt:
"Oh yea?! Well you're ugly! Who's president now?!"

Ah the kids of today . . . the future of tomorrow. LOL

[aaaaaaaaaaaaa]

Watch it slick...I'm one of those kids of today

[Retrogressive]

Wow, it's hard to think some of the people who have posted actually are the future of america. How can we entrust freedom to people who's only arguement to anything is "he just rocks way better." Come on people, that's disgusting. Further more how can your opinion be taken seriously if you refuse to even spell simple words correctly? I'm sorry does anyone else find this disturbing?

[aaaaaaaaaaaaa]

* is glad he decided to make an intelligent post * It was nice to have a serious discussion while it lasted

[sheepy]

kerry did like.. so much better den bush haha it was funny

[Retrogressive]

serious?

[Looow]

hehe, i hadda watch it for hw. but anyway, i dink kerry is WAAAAAAAAAYY better then bush. bush makes me sleepy, lolz. n he doesnt have good answers to anything, he just goes like ummmmm....... *7 second pause* umm... blah blah balh

I had it for homework too. & i agree with eveything els you said.

[ryfitaDF]

i posted this already, but i wanna write a letter to bush asking "you need some ice for that burn?" he totally got surrvd, man.

[Retrogressive]

oh my god, you people stop posting!! My respect for any of you has just completely been dropped to zero. How low and ignorant is it to make fun of the way someone looks? Especially when the person may be our future president. Honestly stop wasting everyones time with that garbage. It sounds like a bunch of ten year olds "like oh my god... he look sooo bad in that color!" get to the real issues.

[waccoon]

Wow, it's hard to think some of the people who have posted actually are the future of america. How can we entrust freedom to people who's only arguement to anything is "he just rocks way better." Come on people, that's discusting. Further more how can your opinion be taken seriously if you refuse to even spell simple words correctly? I'm sorry does anyone else find this disturbing?

Simple words like disgusting?

Anyways, I say Kerry won the debate, but Bush isn't a strong debator anyways. Let's wait until they have direct questioning.

[ichiban]

Haha. Bush kept making me laugh ... I mean. His staring into air and blinking cluelessly .. ahahah .. okay im sorry. well i think they both made pretty good points. kerry was being too vague. bush was being ... er .. how should i say it ... well. they both did .. okay. i'd vote for kerry though

[expoised]

Kerry did do a good job of the way he answered the questions....Unless of course you wanted him to do a bad job, then he did a bad job of answering the questions...And if you didn't want him to do a good or bad job, you'll be happy to know that none of his answers we're really his but rather a 3rd parties answers that Mr. Kerry decided to give in response to the questions. If you are offended by 3rd parties......



-Basically what Kerry does on everything, but he did do a pretty good job of answering his questions. Bush I think is very respectable in how he brought forward a personal side of both the canidates by thanking Kerry's daughters for being so kind to his own. I'm a Bush dude all the way because I don't like how Kerry flip-flops on every issue (or the majority of them). Bush stands firm on his resolutions and decisions, where as Kerry wavers to what he thinks the voters wants to here...and in some cases, thats how the political system goes...but don't try to appeal to EVERYONE by switching your opinions more than your suits and ties.

I also don't apperciate the way Kerry has attempted to use his service in Vietnam as leverage into his election as president. I, for one, don't believe Vietnam is so far in the past that Americans are ready to talk about it and see it the way Kerry is trying to use it. Yea, movies and TV Shows are great, they're entertainment; but it's just that. We're not ready to come in full contact with the horrors of Vietnam, and unfortunatley a lot of people lost respect for Kerry because of how he is going about his campaigning.


Just my opinion.

i agree with you. ugh. if i felt like typing a million paragraphs... i would. but i don't have time.

[strice]

i just thought it was funny that bush asked to extend the question for a rebuttal but instead stood there and said um, only to come up with a completely inane statement. and yes they need to repeat things to enforce their views, but bush didn't even bother to mix up his words. it was (paraphrasing) "'wrong war wrong time wrong place', how can you follow this guy?" 4 or 5 times over with little variation. kerry won.

[Retrogressive]

Strice: I completely agree with you.

[gigiopolis]

Actually if you paid attention to what Kerry was saying, he didn't change his mind. He stated that in fact he did agree that Saddam was a threat, but that the President did the wrong thing by waging war. Not hard to understand.

Yep. Kerry's been called inconsistent before, and he needed to change that in this debate. He was totally strong on his points and didn't change his mind. Bush, on the other hand...><

But we can never tell who will, in the end, become president. The interesting thing is, for the past 5 presidential campagins, the politicians who "won" the first debate never became president.

A sign? A bad omen? You decide.

[*kryogenix*]

Kerry got a manicure before the debate, while Bush went around visiting the hurricane victims.

[inlonelinessidie]

Kerry got a manicure before the debate, while Bush went around visiting the hurricane victims.

And once again another pointless statement. I don't care who got a manicure or not. Bush most likely went to visit the victims because of PUBLICITY. I care about their views on how to make our country better, but most of you on this forum could careless. All you care about is making fun of how our President or Senator Kerry look, act, and/or stutter. Come on people.

[*kryogenix*]

And once again another pointless statement. I don't care who got a manicure or not. Bush most likely went to visit the victims because of PUBLICTY. I care about their views on how to make our country better, but most of you on this forum could careless. All you care about is making fun of how our President or Senator Kerry look, act, and/or stutter. Come on people.

yes, but does that help John Kerry?

I care about policies, that's why i think Bush should be re elected.

[laylooo]

i watched it for extra credit, it was pretty good, bush looked really annoyed w/ his facial expressions when kerry was bashing him haha i thought it was funny

i think kerry pretty much won the thing

[Retrogressive]

layloo: I have a friend that looks just like you!! her name is melissa!

anyway, bush sucks. there we go. *sigh*

[strice]

kryogenix! it's been so long! how have you been, my war-mongering opponent?

[MeanBastard]

Neither Kerry nor Bush won the debate. Lehrer won.

[*kryogenix*]

kryogenix! it's been so long! how have you been, my war-mongering opponent?

i'm fine, and you, my bleeding-heat adversary?

[inlonelinessidie]

ROUND TWO begins today.

[Retrogressive]

I know I can't wait!

[inlonelinessidie]

Round 2 just ended. I think Kerry did an excellent job compared to Bush. Bush seemed to dogde some questions. So what did the rest of y'all think?

[Heathasm]

actually, bush answered more questions than kerry.
Kerry just kept talking about his "plan" and attacking bush every chance he could get, and when he did try to answer a question on the abortion issue he didn't do well at all.
Kerry also lied, particularily on a quote, the dude came on right after the debate and claimed that he didn't say that.
Bush provided the facts, and i think he proved kerry would indeed raise taxes if he were elected president

[inlonelinessidie]

^^ I don't see how you can say that. Bush kept jumping in, attacking Kerry, and breaking the rules. The moderator was trying to get him to stop but what did our Presiden do? Proceeded on breaking the rules. Sure he was talking, but was he really answering the questions? No, he wasn't.
Kerry by far did a better job on answering the questions and talking about his plan for America. Which in fact is an excellent thing because many of you complained that he never really told us what his plan was.
And no the facts are that Kerry will not raise the taxes for us if elected. It was stated in the debate and after the debate.

[Retrogressive]

I posted this awesome site in the lounge it's a little blog of the events (go to CNN.com to find it) its so hilarious at one point the guy states, "I have two words for you George Bush: Anger Management." So true. Bush cannot control himself, I will say this time and time again he is like a little daddy's boy throwing a fit trying to get his way. go to CNN.com they have some really good stuff over there tonight.

[Heathasm]

kery hasnt told us his plan yet, all that we know is that "he has a plan" that's supposedly is going to make every thing better. Tell me what he said about his plane in the debate? And tell me how bush didn't answer the questions, of course he talked, but he was actually talking about some thing to those who were listening toexactly what he was talking about. And he explained in full how one of kerry's little plans to not make taxes higher would not work. kerry mentioned bush wasnt living in reality, when he is the one who needs the reality check
I don't really care that the president interrupted, but that is just me
and whenever kerry "answered" a question he would quickly start talking about how bad a job the president is doing and saying "i will do the opposite". all im hearing from him is "im going to do and vote for whatever is most popular at the time"

CNN.com is just a bush bashing site you should listen to what shawn hannity has to say on live radio---> http://www.shoutcast.com/directory/?s=sean...ty&numresult=25 i listened for a bit today, and the really talk about what matters, and dont just bash

[Retrogressive]

haha I know, CNN and all the other news' are very liberal. But when I don't want to be intelligent, but want a good laugh I read the stuff. They give a very black and white look at things in my opinion. That's why I rely on www.democracyNOW.org

[*CrackedRearView*]

haha I know, CNN and all the other news' are very liberal. But when I don't want to be intelligent, but want a good laugh I read the stuff. They give a very black and white look at things in my opinion. That's why I rely on www.democracyNOW.org

Actually, in my opinion CNN and company are quite objective in their reporting.

EDIT::

They do point out idiocy in candidates, but they do it for both.

[inlonelinessidie]

Tell me what he said about his plan in the debate?

Kerry told us about his plan for medicare, and how he was going to do that. He told us about how he would handle the war in Iraq differently and gave us his plan. And you imply that I wasn't listening. Come on. Trust me if our President made a good statement I would point it out. I would not try to hide it because I am not the kind of person you might think I am.

And tell me how Bush didn't answer the questions

Bush was asked a question by a women in the audience that went something like, "Mr. President, name three mistakes you made while you have been President." What did he answer? Nothing relevant to her question. He was also asked how we could bring allies closer to us or make other countries like us again. What did he answer? Once again something that wasn't relevant to the question. Kerry addressed more questions than our President.

And he explained in full how one of Kerry's little plans to not make taxes higher would not work.

"The measure of a strong economy is a growing middle-class where every American has a chance to work and an opportunity to succeed." Now I don't know about you, but I am in the middle-class; and the idea of giving the middle class a tax break is great. How will he do this? He will :
Create Good-Paying Jobs
Cut Middle-Class Taxes To Raise Middle-Class Incomes
Make Washington Live Within A Budget
Invest In The Jobs Of Tomorrow
Need more info.? Go here.

CNN.com is just a bush bashing site

Don't get me wrong, I am not a "Bush Basher". I am not a narrow minded person as you might assume. I respect our President, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with him. Kerry by far in my opinion would be the better choice.

[Heathasm]

Kerry told us about his plan for medicare, and how he was going to do that. He told us about how he would handle the war in Iraq differently and gave us his plan. And you imply that I wasn't listening. Come on. Trust me if our President made a good statement I would point it out. I would not try to hide it because I am not the kind of person you might think I am.

Bush was asked a question by a women in the audience that went something like, "Mr. President, name three mistakes you made while you have been President." What did he answer? Nothing relevant to her question. He was also asked how we could bring allies closer to us or make other countries like us again. What did he answer? Once again something that wasn't relevant to the question.  Kerry addressed more questions than our President.

"The measure of a strong economy is a growing middle-class where every American has a chance to work and an opportunity to succeed." Now I don't know about you, but I am in the middle-class; and the idea of giving the middle class a tax break is great. How will he do this? He will :
Create Good-Paying Jobs
Cut Middle-Class Taxes To Raise Middle-Class Incomes
Make Washington Live Within A Budget
Invest In The Jobs Of Tomorrow
Need more info.? Go here.

Don't get me wrong, I am not a "Bush Basher". I am not a narrow minded person as you might assume. I respect our President, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with him. Kerry by far in my opinion would be the better choice.

hahahhahahah, yeah, let me rephrase that question
What is his plan besides giving more power to the government

Bush may not have answered that, but kerry didn't answer any of the questions, and he lied. I don't know about you but that's not okay in my book ;)

on kerry's tax cut....
you are in for a very rude awakening, if kerry is made president
Because he is living in a dreamworld if he thinks he can cut the taxes for people making under 100 grand
How is he going to pay for all of these little plans he has?
The only way is going to be to raise taxes
His plans are way too out there
get ready for communism

I don't think you are narrow minded, sorry for the snide comments i made i do that some times

[inlonelinessidie]

What is his plan besides giving more power to the government

He's not going to give more power to the government. You will be able to choose your own doctors and health-plan. You were talking about medicare right?

Bush may not have answered that, but kerry didn't answer any of the questions, and he lied. I don't know about you but that's not okay in my book ;)

Where did he lie and how?

How is he going to pay for all of these little plans he has?

Raise taxes on the rich.

I don't think you are narrow minded, sorry for the snide comments i made   i do that some times

Thank you.

[Heathasm]

He's not going to give more power to the government. You will be able to choose your own doctors and health-plan. You were talking about medicare right?

Where did he lie and how?

Raise taxes on the rich.

Thank you. 

in other parts of this section i've said how kerry lied...but i'll say it again
he lied about one of the general he quoted when discussing a major issue in the war, making his statement false that they think the troops aren't trained well enough. This is true, because he came on immediately after the debate and stated that he did not say that. I didn't catch his name, i wish i had but i missed it!
imo hes lying about the taxes, every thing he says and every thing he votes for points to can alone tell you that he wants to raise them
he lied about bush being the only president to lose jobs
and also, when he says hes gong to raise the rich's taxes, hes taxing the very people that keep jobs accessible to middle class people, how is that going to help this problem? which leads me to say again that kerry isn't very realistic
//edit: plus, kerry has lied about things before, i have no trust him at all

Like the president said, kerry requested 2.2 trillion in new spending money, what makes you think that by just taxing the rich more he is going to make up for that...? i really just dont see it, which is why i don't think kerry is being realistic

[inlonelinessidie]

he lied about one of the general he quoted when discussing a major issue in the war, making his statement false that they think the troops aren't trained well enough. This is true, because he came on immediately after the debate and stated that he did not say that.

I heard that too after the debate, but the guy said that Kerry phrased it incorrectly.

In the end it just depends on who we choose to believe. You choose our current President, I choose Senator Kerry.

[Retrogressive]

I agree inlonelinessidie, I mean Kerry might lie I don't know. I'm sure everyone agrees that the government lies. But I don't want it to lie. Bush is lieing to the public also.

[*CrackedRearView*]

I agree inlonelinessidie, I mean Kerry might lie I don't know. I'm sure everyone agrees that the government lies. But I don't want it to lie. Bush is lieing to the public also.

But there's a huge difference.

I know plenty of people, I'm assuming like yourself, who pass off Kerry's lies as a "change of heart", but slap the Satan sticker on G.W. Bush if he slips up once.

I agree that both are lying jerk-offs, but Bush seems to stick truer to his ideals than Kerry.

[ComradeRed]

He's not going to give more power to the government. You will be able to choose your own doctors and health-plan. You were talking about medicare right?

Hahahaha that's a good one.

You might be able to choose your own health plan, but you sure as hell aren't going to be allowed to choose how much you pay.

That's like requiring everyone to pay $50 for a pen, giving them a choice between one thjat is worth $5 and one that is worth $15, and calling them "free".

If Kerry was really interested in medical choice and not giving more power to the government, he would get rid of medicare altogether -- that way you would be allowed to choose EXACTLY what plan you want and HOW MUCH you want to pay.

Raise taxes on the rich.

And if they leave?

10% of Americans pay almost 85% of the taxes. That's just not fair. It's their money -- why shouldn't they be allowed to keep it?

And many people in that top 10% are hardworking upper middle class people who are probably not much different from people you know. Do you know how much taxable income you have to make to be in the top 10%? About $80,000.

I was doing college financial aid stuff -- my family pays 30% of its income in JUST income taxes -- not to mention property taxes, sales taxes, etc. According to the HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, the typical American pays 47% of his/her income just to support the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

The Cato Institute estimates that, when you include state and local taxes, the amount is anywhere between 55% and 65%.

In other words, the average American works three days out of the week to support Halliburton, drug addicts, welfare bums, corrupt bureaucrats, even more corrupt politicians, girls who didn't think before having sex, etc. and only TWO days to support himself and his family.

And we wonder why so many Americans are in debt and have financial problems? And we wonder why family values are degrading? It has nothing to do with abortion or gay rights or anything like that -- most ordinary Americans can't afford to have family values any more because of people like Hillary Clinton.

And the situation isn't getting any better -- as there become fewer workers and an older population, the definition of "the rich" will continually be revised downwards -- until the average American making $40,000 a year is subjected to two-thirds taxation to support an increasing number of people who've decided that working just isn't worth it any more. After all, welfare PAYS. We've spent over $8 TRILLION on welfare since Lyndon B Johnson's great society. If you divide that by the number of people who have gotten chronic welfare aid, that means that we pay the average person on welfare $50,000 A YEAR. So why work for $40,000, pay $25,000 of it in taxes, when you can just get $50,000 from doing nothing?

In 1773 the British levied a SIXPENCE tax on tea (that is an 6% tax). Historians estimate that, in 1775, the average American paid less than TWO PERCENT of his income in taxes to King and Parliament. And what did we do? We overthrew them.

Today, the average American pays FIFTY percent -- that is, twenty-five times more than in 1775 -- of his income in taxes to President and Congress. And what do we do? Form special interest groups and try to steal as much money from everyone else as we can before this government goes down in flames.

[Note]

heck. they both said the same crap over and over throughout all the friggen debates. kerry scofts to much, bush drinks to much water, and that dude that asks all the questons is just stupid.

::jerry::

[lilazneye10]

yes but i didnt want to my teacher made me im not into politics

[inlonelinessidie]

ComradeRed- What are your sources?


Final round. Round 3 begins today.

[ComradeRed]

I believe I pointed them out... Cato Institute, House of Respresentatives, etc. My statistics on welfare spending are all from teh Cato Institute. Everything else is quoted in the argument.

[inlonelinessidie]

^^ Alright.

[Heathasm]

haha i hope some thing good and juicy happens this round, but most likely not

[inlonelinessidie]

Debate just ended. Overall I think both did well. Bush seemed to step it up a bit this time, and Kerry still stayed strong. This debate had humour in it, especially when both candidates were asked about their "strong women", which was great. So what did the rest of y'all think?

[*kryogenix*]

I think it was a tie, however Bush gains because this stops the momentum that Kerry gained through the first debate. Also, Kerry made a mistake mentioning Dick Cheney's daughter.

[inlonelinessidie]

Also, Kerry made a mistake mentioning Dick Cheney's daughter.

Against the rules?

[*kryogenix*]

Against the rules?

That's still a jackass thing to do.

[inlonelinessidie]

That's still a jackass thing to do.

Why? Cheney loves his daughter and is not ashamed of her. There is nothing wrong with her being a lesbian, big deal. Cheney's daughter is very open about her sexuality, so no it was not a "jackass thing to do," at all.

[ComradeRed]

First Debate: Clear Kerry win
Second Debate: Draw
Third Debate: Very, VERY narrow Kerry win (Bush was winning up until the last 20 minutes when he got killed).

[*CrackedRearView*]

First Debate: Clear Kerry win
Second Debate: Draw
Third Debate: Very, VERY narrow Kerry win (Bush was winning up until the last 20 minutes when he got killed).

I disagree.

I think the record is 1-1-1.

1st: Kerry
2nd: Bush
3rd: Draw

[*kryogenix*]

Why? Cheney loves his daughter and is not ashamed of her. There is nothing wrong with her being a lesbian, big deal. Cheney's daughter is very open about her sexuality, so no it was not a "jackass thing to do," at all.

The Kerry camp is trying to call Cheney a flip flop through something he can't control. That's pretty rude and insensitive to me.

[ComradeRed]

I disagree.

I think the record is 1-1-1.

1st: Kerry
2nd: Bush
3rd: Draw

Gallup polls show that Kerry clearly won the first one. For the second one, 43% think Kerry won and 41% think Bush won ... which is within the Margin of Error (meaning it's a tie). The third one hasn't come out yet, but it will in a day or two.

EDIT: Gallup's poll shows that 52% of Americans think Kerry won, comapred to 39% for Bush.

Kerry won the third debate.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/content/?ci=13642

Among Republicans, 73% think Bush won compared ot 17% for Kerry
Among Independents, 54% think Kerry won and 34% say Bush
Among Democrats, 86% think Kerry won versus 7% for Bush

Among all Americans, 42% now have a more favorable impression of Kerry and 15% have a less favorable impression of Kerry. 27% have a more favorable impression of Bush and 17% now have a less favorable impression.

In terms of specific debate rankings,
Expressed himself more clearly: 61% Kerry, 29% Bush (K +32)
Showed he cares about people like you: 53% Kerry, 41% Bush (K +12)
Has a good understanding of the issues: 49% Kerry, 37% Bush (K +12)
Agreed with you on issues you care about: 53% Kerry, 46% Bush (K +7)
Showed he shares your values: 50% Kerry, 46% Bush (K +4)
Was more believable: 48% Kerry, 45% Bush (K +3)
Was more liekable: Bush 48%, Kerry 43% (B +5)

The margin of error is 4% with 95% Confidence, so basically Bush tied on sharing values and believability, won on likeability, but lost on the other 4 issues.

[strice]

The Kerry camp is trying to call Cheney a flip flop through something he can't control. That's pretty rude and insensitive to me.

it's hard to complain about kerry being "rude" when you consider the smear tactics the bush campaign has been employing.

[*kryogenix*]

it's hard to complain about kerry being "rude" when you consider the smear tactics the bush campaign has been employing.

for example?

Kerry's campaign is almost entirely a smear campaign, repeatedly saying Busg failed miserably, Iraq is a disaster, Bush was AWOL, blah blah.

[ComradeRed]

The only Kerry smear against Bush was accusing him of being AWOL.

Attacking Bush's policies in Iraq is not smearing. Likewise, it would be smearing for Bush to attack Kerry's Vietnam Service ... but it would not be smearing for him to attack kerry's senate voting record.

You also have to remember that Bush is sitting in the defendant's chair ... He has to answer for his actions, like all presidents running for reelection, not kerry.

[*kryogenix*]

The only Kerry smear against Bush was accusing him of being AWOL.

Attacking Bush's policies in Iraq is not smearing. Likewise, it would be smearing for Bush to attack Kerry's Vietnam Service ... but it would not be smearing for him to attack kerry's senate voting record.

You also have to remember that Bush is sitting in the defendant's chair ... He has to answer for his actions, like all presidents running for reelection, not kerry.

Bush has called Kerry's campaign heroic. It's the swift boat veterans for truth that are smearing him. And Bush isn't connected to them.

[Nicolatofu]

Looks like a lot of Kerry Fans!! Well i have watched the debates, and I must say Kerry squished Bush! But remember, it's easy to critize someone on all things they have done wrong, and it'es easy to say "i will do this and this and this," let's just hope that actually does happen if he's in office. As for who i would vote for well i really don't want to see another 4 years of Bush