file sharing. Options

[*kryogenix*]

file sharing. should people be allowed to "share" software, movies and music with others over the internet, or is this cheating the author/studio/artist etc. ?

I believe file sharing is wrong. People are hard at work producing these things. Why don't people just buy the licensce to the software/movie/music?

Why am I against file sharing? Because I'm going to be a computer programmer. I don't want to starve because some 12 year old downloaded my program off KaZaA. Think about how the artists must feel. I know they aren't starving, but still, they aren't receiving money that's rightfully theirs.

Software is to be treated like a book. You purchase the "book" and can read and access the material within the "book" any time you want. You can even share the "book" with a friend. However, because two people in two different places cannot be reading a book at the same time. When you lend the "book" to someone, you effectively lend them the licensce to view the book as they please. The same goes with software. Treat it as a book. You can share, but when you do so you are transferring the licensce to the person you are sharing with.

Sharing is fine, but only when one of the parties has a licensce to use the media that they are sharing.

[*kryogenix*]

stupid me, moving to debate

[ComradeRed]

[*kryogenix*]

lol. yeah, i remember that picture from the other thread.

but in all seriousness, piracy is wrong.

[karrar]

you know i agree with you but i mean i do it so i wont act liek an angel also i doubt is going to stop anytime soon.........i mean common why pay 20 bucks for a dvd of a movie why pay 15 bucks for a cd and why pay 50 bucks for a comp game when you can get it all for free.......thats what goes in the mind of people........

[ryfitaDF]

i don't think their's anything wrong with it. if i like the band i'll go to their show and buy a shirt and directly give money to them. if it weren't for pirating music i would have never gotten into alot of my favorite bands. and, also, smart people don't buy CDs unless they like most of the songs on it. how are they going to to know how much they like it if they don't "share" it.

[tofumonzter]

in my opinion. downloading whatever that you should have pay to get it from the internet is really not fair to the company or band. yes. it's free, but the company isn't working for free-pirate-software-download version, they are actually buy to use.

how are they going to to know how much they like it if they don't "share" it.

that might not be the share the company wanted. share it from the internet is not okay at all. but if you friend bought it, borrow it from him, listen to it. thats a positive sharing. as for downloading(share) free programs or musics, that's always against the license agreements and others.

i mean common why pay 20 bucks for a dvd of a movie why pay 15 bucks for a cd and why pay 50 bucks for a comp game when you can get it all for free.......thats what goes in the mind of people........

say hello to lawsuits.

[WhiteLotus*]

I'm against it as well. If I want a or a DVD, I get it the old fashioned way: Buying it from a music store/ movie store. I dont feel right, and the artist worked very hard producing a CD as well .

[tofumonzter]

I'm against it as well. If I want a or a DVD, I get it the old fashioned way: Buying it from a music store/ movie store. I dont feel right, and the artist worked very hard producing a CD as well .

or you can borrow it from someone(that doesn't mean copying and ripping). or blockbuster(sp.)

[KrAzi3piNoY]

yeah its somewhat wrong

[capsule]

how are they going to to know how much they like it if they don't "share" it.

well...with music, iTunes takes care of that the legal way, offering 30 second samples for free of music u might want (and if u really do like it, just a buck to get the song).

yeah its somewhat wrong

how it is "somewhat" wrong...??

[gerundio]

file sharing. should people be allowed to "share" software, movies and music with others over the internet, or is this cheating the author/studio/artist etc. ?

I believe file sharing is wrong. People are hard at work producing these things. Why don't people just buy the licensce to the software/movie/music?

Why am I against file sharing? Because I'm going to be a computer programmer. I don't want to starve because some 12 year old downloaded my program off KaZaA.

I HOPE YOU STARVE.

[heroin_like_high]

I HOPE YOU STARVE.

hahaha that really cracked me up!!

[gigiopolis]

well...with music, iTunes takes care of that the legal way, offering 30 second samples for free of music u might want (and if u really do like it, just a buck to get the song).

30 seconds...ehh I don't think so...you can't get enough of the song in 30 seconds. Plus I agree with the idea that if you download mp3's, you'll find something you like and buy the band's CD. That's certainly true for me. Who has the time (and money) to go out to HMV and buy every single new CD in stock, just to see if you like the band?

Sure, I think that maybe there should be a fee for the songs, but a dollar a song is a little much, don't you think? A CD with 15 songs can cost $15-$20. If you REALLY want to attract buying mp3's, they really should lower the cost to like 75 cents, at the very most.

[sikdragon]

It's like an answering machine, you screen the music before you buy it. People take to something they like on their own rather than trusting the manager of CD sales.

would you buy a car from a man with a crooked smile from a company you have never heard of without a test drive?

[*kryogenix*]

I HOPE YOU STARVE.

we shall see.

30 seconds...ehh I don't think so...you can't get enough of the song in 30 seconds. Plus I agree with the idea that if you download mp3's, you'll find something you like and buy the band's CD. That's certainly true for me. Who has the time (and money) to go out to HMV and buy every single new CD in stock, just to see if you like the band?

Sure, I think that maybe there should be a fee for the songs, but a dollar a song is a little much, don't you think? A CD with 15 songs can cost $15-$20. If you REALLY want to attract buying mp3's, they really should lower the cost to like 75 cents, at the very most.

if 30 seconds isn't enough, try the radio like everyone else did pre-Napster. And yes, some people will buy the cd after listening to the song they like, but there are people who will abuse the system and download entire albums and burning them, without ever paying a cent.

Yes, I do agree that the price should be less for downloading songs, but maybe, they're trying to discourage you from downloading and instead, buy the cd. it should be less though, you spend time downloading, you need to provide the cd and you don't get a jewel case and a cover for the cd.

[banddorko]

the radio...? i don't know where you live, but the radio here is all country and top 40, which is not the kind of music i like.

i also don't think 30 seconds is enough. i usually go to barnes and noble and listen to the samples there, and some of the cd's i bought from there that i thought would be good from the samples suck.

file sharing has made me buy a lot more cd's. i hadn't bought a cd for over 6 months. after i got kazaa lite (about 8 months ago) i bought over 30 cd's because i could sample music easily. and who really downloads whole cd's off kazaa or something? i think it's way too much work with all the fake files and stuff.

plus if you buy a cd without listening to it first and you don't like it, i don't get the point. so the band that you don't like makes money because you were curious about how they sounded?

i would be content if bands let you listen to their whole cd on their website (i know some do, but others usually only have a song or two), but i don't think that will happen....

[gigiopolis]

we shall see.



if 30 seconds isn't enough, try the radio like everyone else did pre-Napster. And yes, some people will buy the cd after listening to the song they like, but there are people who will abuse the system and download entire albums and burning them, without ever paying a cent.

Yes, I do agree that the price should be less for downloading songs, but maybe, they're trying to discourage you from downloading and instead, buy the cd. it should be less though, you spend time downloading, you need to provide the cd and you don't get a jewel case and a cover for the cd.

As much as I agree with your points, I'd have to agree with banddorko that radio ( at least, in my city) only plays the stuff that I've heard all the time, the CD's that I've already bought. Media hardly give chances to new and different artists by promoting them on TV, radio and whatnot. A lot of bands that I've heard from downloading haven't been played on the radio. If I didnt' download it, I wouldn't even have known about their existence!

It is true about people who burn the whole album. But at least for me, I don't do that. Either I hate the band and don't download at all or I love the band so much that I need to support them by buying their CD.

AND THE PRICES ARE TOO EXPENSIVE! It's true. I agree, there isn't all the packaging from mp3's you buy online.

[jennifish]

i think it should be all right, unless you burn it and sell it. iono actually.

[*kryogenix*]

As much as I agree with your points, I'd have to agree with banddorko that radio ( at least, in my city) only plays the stuff that I've heard all the time, the CD's that I've already bought. Media hardly give chances to new and different artists by promoting them on TV, radio and whatnot. A lot of bands that I've heard from downloading haven't been played on the radio.

if they don't play the music you want on the radio, request it.

If I didnt' download it, I wouldn't even have known about their existence!

And if you never knew they existed before, how did you know what to type in the search to download the song?

It is true about people who burn the whole album. But at least for me, I don't do that. Either I hate the band and don't download at all or I love the band so much that I need to support them by buying their CD.

Good for you

AND THE PRICES ARE TOO EXPENSIVE! It's true. I agree, there isn't all the packaging from mp3's you buy online.

But still, you shouldn't be stealing. If you wanted a $100,000 car, but you didn't have $100,000 , should you steal it?

[gerundio]

SOUL SEEK

^^^

Soul Seek is the best program for file sharing download it.

[MrElsewhere]

well, i use the p2p networks to get singles i like. and when i get tired of the singles, i buy the CD. one single < a CD, eh?

[eboarder2020]

File sharing could go either way... There are some local bands who put their music on downaloadable programs just so they can get exposure... I know this because my neighbors band did that, and they milked the benefits of having people across country hear there song... Even if its one download here and there, their music got out and they loved the music sharing deal. Soon they were asked to play at shows in different states... I can understand why big artists like eminem, or Dr. Dre would want their music off. I know that they work hard for it, and they deserve to get awarded and paid. I just however believe its rediculous for the price of their CD... $15 would be a "deal" but many CD are more then that... Its only like what no more than $7.00 for a blank CD and just by putting some persons music on it makes that CD double in price. Even if only a few thousand people purchased the CD I would think the Artist gets a bag load of cash from it. When a person releases a CD they get tons of money even if the CD doesnt sale... For one they get huge advertisement, and that alone gets them paid like a mother. And when they go on MTV and the Leno show and what not they also get paid for that... If you think the artist are rich now, think of how much richer they would be if we all HAD to buy their CD's... The houses could probobly be twice and big, and their car collection would double or even tripple in size.

I love the music i listen to, and I download em because I feel that i could asve that $15 on a CD for something better. $15 could get me a volunteer tutor who could help me with my school work. It can get me a better lunch, it can help me pay for gas, taxes, and all that other good stuff

The artist may not starve right now, and they may never... But if i bought every CD because of a song I liked, I'd be the one starving.

[sikdragon]

it is just a few cents for a blank cd.

[nyctophiliac]

it is just a few cents for a blank cd.

yeah can't you just burn it on a CD?

[gigiopolis]

if they don't play the music you want on the radio, request it.

Request it? Uh, no thanks. Like they'd ever get to me. I don't even listen to the radio anymore, all they play is absolute crap.

And if you never knew they existed before, how did you know what to type in the search to download the song?

Well, I never exactly typed in a random band name. There's something called online music reviews.

Good for you

Thank you, regardless if that was sarcastic or not.

But still, you shouldn't be stealing. If you wanted a $100,000 car, but you didn't have $100,000 , should you steal it?

I'm not stealing the whole thing...it's like...stealing the engine of the car, testing it out, and then buying the car. I'm not stealing the whole car and driving away with it. Nonetheless, I am still stealing, but in the end record companies DO get their profits.

[nas]

SOUL SEEK

^^^

Soul Seek is the best program for file sharing download it.

hoo ha! Good boy~

Wait kryo.. aren't all the roms or whatever you d/l illegal too? Or whatever you call those things that plays the GBA games on the comp and whatnot.

[queen]

It's like an answering machine, you screen the music before you buy it. People take to something they like on their own rather than trusting the manager of CD sales.

would you buy a car from a man with a crooked smile from a company you have never heard of without a test drive?

some people don't download before buying; they don't buy the cd at all.

If you wanted a $100,000 car, but you didn't have $100,000 , should you steal it?

valid point

[gerundio]

valid point

What??!?!

There's a huge difference between stealing a car of any price and downloading music from the internet.

[queen]

What??!?!

There's a huge difference between stealing a car of any price and downloading music from the internet.

erm, they're both illegal. did you pay for the music? no. does the artist want you to pay for the music? yes. what's the difference?

[gerundio]

erm, they're both illegal. did you pay for the music? no. does the artist want you to pay for the music? yes. what's the difference?

LOL. Well first of all, a car is usually much more expensive than several hundred songs.

Secondly, music on the internet is digital information, and not much more than that. Thus, what you download are just copies that required little more than a copy to make. You can't "copy" "burn" or "download" cars. Cars need to be manufactured by hand or by machine in order to exist. There's a big difference.

And not all artists are against file sharing.

[queen]

LOL. Well first of all, a car is usually much more expensive than several hundred songs.

so you're saying just because a car costs more, it should be illegal to steal, yet since a cd is merely $20, it's all right to download the songs from the internet? you're saying it's all right to download games & software for free instead of paying for them at the store?

Secondly, music on the internet is digital information, and not much more than that. Thus, what you download are just copies that required little more than a copy to make. You can't "copy" "burn" or "download" cars. Cars need to be manufactured by hand or by machine in order to exist. There's a big difference.

erm, go check out this thread, and just to add to that: downloading music/software/games is equivalent to just stealing them off the rack.

And not all artists are against file sharing.

yes, i know. some even encourage file sharing to make their music known, but what about those that are against file sharing? are we just supposed to ignore them? the government apparently doesn't think so ;o

if i were to make a living creating softwares/games, i would want people to pay for my shít.

[gerundio]

so you're saying just because a car costs more, it should be illegal to steal, yet since a cd is merely $20, it's all right to download the songs from the internet? you're saying it's all right to download games & software for free instead of paying for them at the store?

Ahh... what CD's are you buying? $20? LOL. If I buy a CD it's usually less than $15.

Again, I just said that there is a huge difference between stealing a car and stealing music. Can you read?

erm, go check out this thread, and just to add to that: downloading music/software/games is equivalent to just stealing them off the rack.

Um ok. And your point is? Hint: (READING COMPREHENSION).

[queen]

Ahh... what CD's are you buying? $20? LOL. If I buy a CD it's usually less than $15.

Again, I just said that there is a huge difference between stealing a car and stealing music. Can you read?

i rounded it off to $20 because cds range in price between $9-19. why did you make a point of saying there's a huge difference between stealing a car and stealing music if you know both are illegal? (which, by the way, was kryogenix's point). you don't really make much sense there.

Um ok. And your point is? Hint: (READING COMPREHENSION).

what exactly is YOUR point? i posted the thread there because you were blabbing on about how cars can't be "copied" and "burned" when it's still the same concept: stealing.

reading comprehension? lol, you can't even seem to understand any of my points and the arguments of those above me.

[gerundio]

what exactly is YOUR point? i posted the thread there because you were blabbing on about how cars can't be "copied" and "burned" when it's still the same concept: stealing.

If you knew how to read, you would have obviously picked up that I think that there are different degrees of stealing. Now that I established that for you...

There is a huge difference between stealing a car and stealing a CD just because of the nature of both things. How can you not see this?

[queen]

If you knew how to read, you would have obviously picked up that I think that there are different degrees of stealing. Now that I established that for you...

if YOU knew how to read, then you would have picked up that I KNEW THAT, and TO ME it doesn't matter because STEALING IS STEALING IS STEALING IS STEALING. so what if there's "different degrees" of stealing? what's your point? it's still stealing. i commented on kryogenix's comment to barelyy_coherent's post. the "difference in degree" of stealing is irrelevent. i don't know how YOU jumped in on the topic discussing something when we were just trying to state the obvious: downloading/filesharing = stealing.

based on your other posts such as "i hope you starve" to kryogenix and your post on soul seek, i assume you support filesharing, hence the rest of my questions: "so you're saying just because a car costs more, it should be illegal to steal, yet since a cd is merely $20, it's all right to download the songs from the internet? you're saying it's all right to download games & software for free instead of paying for them at the store?" ---questions that you didn't answer, btw.

[sikdragon]

it isnt illegal to download music, it is illegal to share it.

Everything is legal until you are caught. Morality is completely seperate from lawful. If you were under the impression they were the same you are sadly mistaken.

[gerundio]

based on your other posts such as "i hope you starve" to kryogenix and your post on soul seek, i assume you support filesharing, hence the rest of my questions: "so you're saying just because a car costs more, it should be illegal to steal, yet since a cd is merely $20, it's all right to download the songs from the internet? you're saying it's all right to download games & software for free instead of paying for them at the store?"  ---questions that you didn't answer, btw.

When are you going to understand that because of the nature of music and the nature of cars it's different. I stopped talking about the initial cost a long ass time ago. Music is music. It's information. You can copy and recopy it a million times and it doesn't cost you anything to do so. Cars are actual concrete things and once you steal one, the company or the dealer has not only lost money on a potential sale, but more importantly will also lose money replacing the stolen car. So downloading music is definitely not the same as stealing a CD from a store. The same thing as the car is involved. OBVIOUSLY YOU ARE THE ONE WHO HAS NO IDEA HOW TO READ.

[karrar]

why pay 20 bucks for a cd that cost the company 17 cents to make

[queen]

When are you going to understand that because of the nature of music and the nature of cars it's different. I stopped talking about the initial cost a long ass time ago. Music is music. It's information. You can copy and recopy it a million times and it doesn't cost you anything to do so. Cars are actual concrete things and once you steal one, the company or the dealer has not only lost money on a potential sale, but more importantly will also lose money replacing the stolen car. So downloading music is definitely not the same as stealing a CD from a store. The same thing as the car is involved. OBVIOUSLY YOU ARE THE ONE WHO HAS NO IDEA HOW TO READ.

you've never been to conciertos? orchestras? concerts? people pay to hear the music. which is why artists sell records, cassettes, dvds, cds, ETC ETC ETC. SO THEY CAN MAKE MONEY OFF YOU BUYING WHAT THEY PROVIDE. so basically what you're saying is cars are concrete, and music isn't, so we shouldn't pay for it? wtf? some people get paid for their VOICES. that's not concrete, so they shouldn't get paid?

Music is music. It's information. You can copy and recopy it a million times and it doesn't cost you anything to do so.

why should music be any different from anything else people download? or are you saying it's all right to download softwares as well? it cost people money to make music, whether it's the price of the instrument, studio time, labor - it costs money to create it. just because it's free to COPY doesn't mean it's legal.

it isnt illegal to download music, it is illegal to share it.

Everything is legal until you are caught. Morality is completely seperate from lawful. If you were under the impression they were the same you are sadly mistaken.

did you just ignore every post concerning the digital millenium copyright act? and when did i include any of my morals in this? what i stated was a fact: it's illegal to download music.

everything is legal until you get caught? what are you gonna say when you get caught? "i didn't share .mp3s therefore you can't charge me"? it's written down on the digital millenium act that downloading is illegal.

it's the same as drinking under the age of 21; you could go ahead and drink all you want, but it's still illegal.

i don't really give a sh*t about this whole file sharing business. everyone can download whatever crap they want for all i care, but at least i don't go around claiming something isn't illegal when there's already been an act passed against it ;o

[patrick004]

I usually download music or an artist's CD before I buy it. I'm not going to buy a CD without knowing how much I'd like it.

I mostly support local or underground artists because I feel that that's where the pure music is. Artists on major record labels make their millions by touring, not by selling records.

Also, stealing a car IS different from stealing music and stealing a pencil and stealing a Picasso painting. Who pays more than 15 dollars for a CD? ...Unless it's a rare or old CD.

[*kryogenix*]

Request it? Uh, no thanks. Like they'd ever get to me. I don't even listen to the radio anymore, all they play is absolute crap.

They play absolute crap because no one is requesting the good stuff.

Well, I never exactly typed in a random band name. There's something called online music reviews.

So you do know they exist before you download their music.

Thank you, regardless if that was sarcastic or not.

you're welcome.

I'm not stealing the whole thing...it's like...stealing the engine of the car, testing it out, and then buying the car. I'm not stealing the whole car and driving away with it. Nonetheless, I am still stealing, but in the end record companies DO get their profits.

It's great that you buy it anyway, but how is it going to be enforced?

Ahh... what CD's are you buying? $20? LOL. If I buy a CD it's usually less than $15.

Again, I just said that there is a huge difference between stealing a car and stealing music. Can you read?

stealing is still stealing, no matter what. just because it costs less doesn't mean it's not a crime.

When are you going to understand that because of the nature of music and the nature of cars it's different. I stopped talking about the initial cost a long ass time ago. Music is music. It's information. You can copy and recopy it a million times and it doesn't cost you anything to do so. Cars are actual concrete things and once you steal one, the company or the dealer has not only lost money on a potential sale, but more importantly will also lose money replacing the stolen car. So downloading music is definitely not the same as stealing a CD from a store. The same thing as the car is involved. OBVIOUSLY YOU ARE THE ONE WHO HAS NO IDEA HOW TO READ.

OK, i'll make an easier comparison for you to understand. Say you buy a book(like a comic book, about 20 pages, 3-10 dollars). Your friend wants to have a copy of it, but since he's a freeloader, he asks to just scan the pages. You do so and give him the copy in a zipped file. It cost you nothing to copy it. But is it wrong? Yes. Copyright laws pertain to intellectual material too. Copying intellectual material is stealing.

[gigiopolis]

So you do know they exist before you download their music.

Of course. Here's the long process:

I read some random review, and if it sounds interesting, then I'll dl a song. I have learned of their existence. If I like it, I'll buy the CD.

Now here's the long process of radio:

I hear the same damn songs over and over again. I turn the radio off. I learn of no existence. I have no desire to buy a CD.

What I don't understand is...how does knowing the band exists before I dl their music contradict with my point?

[*kryogenix*]

Of course. Here's the long process:

I read some random review, and if it sounds interesting, then I'll dl a song. I have learned of their existence. If I like it, I'll buy the CD.

Now here's the long process of radio:

I hear the same damn songs over and over again. I turn the radio off. I learn of no existence. I have no desire to buy a CD.

What I don't understand is...how does knowing the band exists before I dl their music contradict with my point?

because:

If I didnt' download it, I wouldn't even have known about their existence!

you just contradicted yourself.