presidents worth more than us? Options

[T00000]

So I recently came across this article on yahoo news. One section struck me as odd:

Several surgeons uninvolved in Clinton's care said they didn't think his doctors would risk treating him with newer, experimental approaches like robotic surgery or laparoscopy, sometimes called keyhole surgery.


"With three-vessel disease in a president, I don't think I'd be doing it," said Dr. W. Randolph Chitwood, chief of cardiovascular surgery at East Carolina University in Greenville, N.C., and a spokesman for the American College of Cardiology.

Does this mean that average people are less important than presidents? Or what? Because if these procedures are "dangerous" then why would it be okay to do them on other people and risk their lives more than the lives of presidents? It worries me you know... hm.

[F1R3B4T]

erhm i think it means they jus dont want to risk trying it on the president coz if it fails then well yeh
instead, their saying that average ppl's lives are not worthwhile enough so they can take such a big risk and if it fails not such a big loss uno?

well good to kno hes gonna recover tho

*EDIT* btw, in the topic title it sez "presidents worth more than us" but in the post u sed "average people are more important than presidents?" so yeh

[DaTru KataLYST]

If I was going to operate on him, I think I'd use more care than opearting an average guy.

No doubt, screwing up on the average patient will be career suicide, and all your money goes poof, plus someone's death on your head.

Screwing up on someone as famous as a president, its career suicide, no money, a death on your head, plus the entire world will know you as the so called surgeon who killed a president.

Lincoln - Oswald
JFK - Harvey
Clinton - _____

is what the textbooks would say.


and no argument here, doctors should value life as equal for everyone!

[DrEaMgUy2K1]

yea thats kinda odd and a hard question :O :-/ but yea clinton was a great prez ,i wish he could be president till he dies :*(

[hair products]

So I recently came across this article on yahoo news. One section struck me as odd:

Several surgeons uninvolved in Clinton's care said they didn't think his doctors would risk treating him with newer, experimental approaches like robotic surgery or laparoscopy, sometimes called keyhole surgery.


"With three-vessel disease in a president, I don't think I'd be doing it," said Dr. W. Randolph Chitwood, chief of cardiovascular surgery at East Carolina University in Greenville, N.C., and a spokesman for the American College of Cardiology.

Does this mean that average people are more important than presidents? Or what? Because if these procedures are "dangerous" then why would it be okay to do them on other people and risk their lives more than the lives of presidents? It worries me you know... hm.

i don't get where you think avg people are more important.

if there is an assured way or more secure way of fixing the president then they'll take that route over something dangerous.

something dangerous is important, but not important enough to risk the life of the prez.. meaning they'll try it on someone who's not as well off or important.

sometimes they might cut you a deal like okay we're gonna try this procedure if it's cool with you and if so then we'll cut the charge in so and so.

[angel-roh]

hmm.. so ur saying that the doctors care less about the president's health?

[T00000]

I fixed my post- and I realized how unpopular this little topic of mine is. :( Come on guys! reply reply reply reply!!

[tsohg]

Well if they screw up on the president then they just killed the top executive.. he does have an important job

[PinoyOtaku]

If I was going to operate on him, I think I'd use more care than opearting an average guy.

I agree. Wheter friend or foe, high ranking or lowly, they're still a patient that needs to get treated.

This reminds me of when my mom was assigned to take care of one patients from one of Kalamazoo, Michigan's most prestigious families. The other nurses wouldn't do it because they were afraid of the power this person held (I think he was the chairman of a pharmecutical producer), but my mom went in and did not feel intimidated by this man's status and served him like she would serve any other patient. Now if only flight attendants in carriers here in the US could have that same thought...

[juliar]

Dude, I wouldn't do it because of how dangerous it would be. You screw up, you're marked as the erson who wounded/injured/killed the president. Then someone would come up with some crazy assumption that you killed him on purpose..and yeah.

[T00000]

I agree. Wheter friend or foe, high ranking or lowly, they're still a patient that needs to get treated.

This reminds me of when my mom was assigned to take care of one patients from one of Kalamazoo, Michigan's most prestigious families. The other nurses wouldn't do it because they were afraid of the power this person held (I think he was the chairman of a pharmecutical producer), but my mom went in and did not feel intimidated by this man's status and served him like she would serve any other patient. Now if only flight attendants in carriers here in the US could have that same thought...

excuse me? What about flight attendants?

[x_babii_gherl_x]

thatz wrong .. tsk tsk.. i mean.. he's not president anymore.. so he's just a regular person now.. right..?

[JlIaTMK]

thats stupid.... how dare they.... i mean.... r we in a dictatorship where the leaders r more important then us?.... i thought it was the ppl that we more important.... this is bs

[Spirited Away]

thatz wrong .. tsk tsk.. i mean.. he's not president anymore.. so he's just a regular person now.. right..?

"Average Joe"/Regular people don't usually have as nice of a retirement package as Clinton (or ex-Presidents), nor do they have need for bodyguards.

[sunissed14127]

clinton is from the town i live in...ne ways i think think any average person would prolly take more care with any famous person...basicly cuz they have more $$$ then the average person tho... wel thats my opinion anyway

[*x____duckii*]

thatz wrong .. tsk tsk.. i mean.. he's not president anymore.. so he's just a regular person now.. right..?

Right.

It's like giving a celebrity $1,ooo,ooo simply cuz they're famous (not really).

[F1R3B4T]

ehh maybe becuase hes rich $$$

[racegirl24A]

its a shame people arent treated equally. celebrities are treated so much better than average people, its a bunch of BS. unless you really degrade yourself (steal from people, etc) no one is better than anyone else in the world. I cant stand it when celebrities commit crimes and get off so easily. If some average joe would do that theyd be in a ton of trouble

as for the whole clinton thing..if they were gonna try this new stuff on other patients, why not use it on Clinton? what makes him so much better than us?

[Spirited Away]

Hmm, this is getting funny.

Why are celebraties famous and rich? It's because they entertain PEOPLE and PEOPLE give them that status. PEOPLE are the ones who put celebraties/ and the famous on a pedestal and worship them. This shouldn't be a surprise.

Why aren't we equal? Because PEOPLE put themselves into a lower position when they idolize celebraties.

On the grand scale of things, is Clinton anymore important than the average person? I would say so, after all, he has accomplished more than "Joe" can, or else, why would he need body guards and a better retirement plan than most of us? He changed MANY LIVES, domestic and foreign, can we really say the same about ourselves?

However, being more important in that sense doesn't mean that he's any better as a HUMAN. He is just a regular man, who bleeds and feels pain as any other, and this is especially true when you consider his flaws and character. If you look at it from this aspect, then no, he isn't any more important than a us.

[xolilkatie]

Hmm, this is getting funny.

Why are celebraties famous and rich? It's because they entertain PEOPLE and PEOPLE give them that status. PEOPLE are the ones who put celebraties/ and the famous on a pedestal and worship them. This shouldn't be a surprise.

Why aren't we equal? Because PEOPLE put themselves into a lower position when they idolize celebraties.

On the grand scale of things, is Clinton anymore important than the average person? I would say so, after all, he has accomplished more than "Joe" can, or else, why would he need body guards and a better retirement plan than most of us? He changed MANY LIVES, domestic and foreign, can we really say the same about ourselves?

However, being more important in that sense doesn't mean that he's any better as a HUMAN. He is just a regular man, who bleeds and feels pain as any other, and this is especially true when you consider his flaws and character. If you look at it from this aspect, then no, he isn't any more important than a us.

wow.. i couldnt have said it better ..hehe

[imm]

Well if they screw up on the president then they just killed the top executive.. he does have an important job

But he's not THE president anymore. So why does it really matter? Or does he have some really really important job now. O.o

[juliar]

But he's not THE president anymore. So why does it really matter? Or does he have some really really important job now. O.o

Did you not see the big deal that was made when Ronald Reagan died? Now think what would have happened if someone KILLED Reagan instead of him dying of natural causes.

[T00000]

On the grand scale of things, is Clinton anymore important than the average person? I would say so, after all, he has accomplished more than "Joe" can, or else, why would he need body guards and a better retirement plan than most of us? He changed MANY LIVES, domestic and foreign, can we really say the same about ourselves?

However, being more important in that sense doesn't mean that he's any better as a HUMAN. He is just a regular man, who bleeds and feels pain as any other, and this is especially true when you consider his flaws and character. If you look at it from this aspect, then no, he isn't any more important than a us.

I guess I don't put certain people ahead of other people or deem them as more important than others based on accomplishments. Maybe someone's not able to accomplish as much as the president based on lack of intellect, common sense, or other attributes. This doesn't make that person any less important than someone who does posess those qualities and uses them to the greatest advantage.

[jo3]

Why aren't we equal? Because PEOPLE put themselves into a lower position when they idolize celebraties.

no. i don't idolize any celebrities, but i know i wouldn't get as good treatment as celebrities.

On the grand scale of things, is Clinton anymore important than the average person? I would say so, after all, he has accomplished more than "Joe" can, or else, why would he need body guards and a better retirement plan than most of us? He changed MANY LIVES, domestic and foreign, can we really say the same about ourselves?

so is Clinton more important than your mom, your dad, or you siblings? Unless your last name's Clinton or your parents have done lots of good things for the world, then i guess your answer would be no. or would it?

also, i don't know why EVERYONE assumes that the President does everything. he has his cabinet, his advisors, and the Senate and House to help him make decisions. he did not change many lives by himself; the government (clinton included) changed many lives. the people got him there, so in a way everyone (who voted) played a part in his actions during his 2 terms.

why does he need body guards? because he's well-known. he needs protection because if he didn't have it, then he could be attacked.

why does he have a better retirement plan? he had a great job. great jobs come with great retirement plans. i bet bill gates will have an awesome retirement plan. i bet most multimillionaires will have great retirement plans


i agree with your last paragraph

[Spirited Away]

I guess I don't put certain people ahead of other people or deem them as more important than others based on accomplishments. Maybe someone's not able to accomplish as much as the president based on lack of intellect, common sense, or other attributes.  This doesn't make that person any less important than someone who does posess those qualities and uses them to the greatest advantage.

Exactly, because I think there are different ways a person can judge other people of their worth. Accomplishments are a plus of course, but people tend to agree and disagree on what is a good and bad, and I think there are those in this world who would say that what Clinton has done in office aren't really major accomplishments. We weight these things differently, which is a good thing.







I wonder though. When doctors test a new medical proceedure on someone, don't they need his/her consent? I thought that these things are usually done on volunteers....




jo3, did you read my whole post? It was meant to be tied together....

Anyway, to answer you comment:

no. i don't idolize any celebrities, but i know i wouldn't get as good treatment as celebrities.

You don't idolize celebraties doesn't mean that the majority of the people do not, after all, how are they suppose to be rich if there are not people who would worship the grounds they walk on?

so is Clinton more important than your mom, your dad, or you siblings? Unless your last name's Clinton or your parents have done lots of good things for the world, then i guess your answer would be no. or would it?

also, i don't know why EVERYONE assumes that the President does everything. he has his cabinet, his advisors, and the Senate and House to help him make decisions. he did not change many lives by himself; the government (clinton included) changed many lives. the people got him there, so in a way everyone (who voted) played a part in his actions during his 2 terms.

why does he need body guards? because he's well-known. he needs protection because if he didn't have it, then he could be attacked.

why does he have a better retirement plan? he had a great job. great jobs come with great retirement plans. i bet bill gates will have an awesome retirement plan. i bet most multimillionaires will have great retirement plans


i agree with your last paragraph

Because I'm writing from two perspective I would say that yes, as a patriot, I would think that Clinton has many more things to brag about than my parents do. The logical thing to say is that he is more important to society as a leader than my family (UNLESS my Father was suddenly the President of the country, or my brother found the cure for cancer).

And you're right about bodyguards and retirement plan... but that was my point in the first place . Because of his job, he is an important person to society. Come on, would you say that an asembly line worker is more important the the President if their lives are at stake (logically speaking. Oh, don't involve ethics, because then I would have to agree with you)?

Now then, I'm in favor of my last paragraph also, because as a humanist, I think we should all value each other as people who live with some purpose. Therefore, no one should be more important than anyone else as a human.

But altogether, my point is that a President is more important than an average Joe, but a President is just another average Joe when you take away his title and put him to work like any other blue collar.

[T00000]

Exactly, because I think there are different ways a person can judge other people of their worth. Accomplishments are a plus of course, but people tend to agree and disagree on what is a good and bad, and I think there are those in this world who would say that what Clinton has done in office aren't really major accomplishments. We weight these things differently, which is a good thing.







I wonder though. When doctors test a new medical proceedure on someone, don't they need his/her consent? I thought that these things are usually done on volunteers....

well the thing is, they aren't testing the new procedures, it's already been tested. it's just new, so the results are kind of fickle. But i dont exactly understand your view now?

[Spirited Away]

well the thing is, they aren't testing the new procedures, it's already been tested. it's just new, so the results are kind of fickle. But i dont exactly understand your view now?

I don't understand me neither... I'm just babbling.

Um, just my original comment made sense to me, so go with that.

As for results being iffy... Do patients not have a word as to whether or not doctors will use what kind of treatment on them? The last time I went to the Doctor to test for allergies, my doctor told me the options for testing for allergies and let me choose which one I wanted to do. He didn't say "here are the options, but you must do this one"... So I don't understand what the problem is with Doctors not using the new procedures on him because he has a choice, doesn't he.


Maybe I just need to read more into the whole thing.

[jo3]

ok...i see what ur saying

And you're right about bodyguards and retirement plan... but that was my point in the first place . Because of his job, he is an important person to society. Come on, would you say that an asembly line worker is more important the the President if their lives are at stake (logically speaking. Oh, don't involve ethics, because then I would have to agree with you)?

haha

[*thesweetescape*]

If I was going to operate on him, I think I'd use more care than opearting an average guy.

No doubt, screwing up on the average patient will be career suicide, and all your money goes poof, plus someone's death on your head.

Screwing up on someone as famous as a president, its career suicide, no money, a death on your head, plus the entire world will know you as the so called surgeon who killed a president.

Lincoln - Oswald
JFK - Harvey
Clinton - _____

is what the textbooks would say.


and no argument here, doctors should value life as equal for everyone!

John Wilkes Booth (Boothe?) killed Lincoln, not Oswald. Lee Harvey Oswald killed JFK.

Sadly, the reality is that presidents and other famous people are going to be getting better care than us. It's not ever day that you get the opportunity to do surgery on a former president...it might even boost your career because, inevitably, your name will better known than before. It seems unfair, but it's reality. As for testing something on a president...I wouldn't blame them for not wanting to. With all the malpractice law suits going on, I would be a little afraid to try something for the first time on any patient, let alone Bill Clinton.

Edit: I just read that you said they weren't testing something on Clinton for the first time but it was/is still new...I still wouldn't want to try it out on a former president unless it's completely necessary.

[PinoyOtaku]

excuse me? What about flight attendants?

What I'm referring to is the attitude provided by F/As in some airlines.

[captured_serenit...]

that's not fair...that's pretty cool...

[*tweeak*]

yes, to the majority, they are more important than us. i die during surgury, no one gives a sh!t, kill a president, youre in for it.

[Spirited Away]

Everyone loves the question "what makes Bill more important than the rest of us?"...

Has anyone tried to turn the question around and ask "what makes ME more important than Bill Clinton?"

[jo3]

Everyone loves the question "what makes Bill more important than the rest of us?"...

Has anyone tried to turn the question around and ask "what makes ME more important than Bill Clinton?"

no one's asked me that question before, so i've never had the opportunity to turn it around

Lincoln - Oswald
JFK - Harvey
Clinton - _____

is what the textbooks would say.


and no argument here, doctors should value life as equal for everyone! 

textbooks would say that (minus the assassins because they're wrong), but eventually you'd forget about it (like everyone's forgotten that other President who died because of a bad surgery....i don't even remember his name...either Arthur or Garfield)

[*corizzle20*]

i think that's what they're trying to say

[magnificentmike]

well president's aren't worth more than us..they're just saying hes important. i mean would you want one of your favorite celebrities to die? its sorta like that.

[*CrackedRearView*]

In a sense, yes. The president is a more important person than you and I, with far more at stake responsibility wise.

Woo! 400th post!

[Spirited Away]

no one's asked me that question before, so i've never had the opportunity to turn it around

Miss Racegirl (sorry, I really don't mean to call you out), asked what makes Clinton more important than us on page 1, and I had to answer.... Eh, I do realize that everyone has potentials and contribute to society in different ways, but the MAIN difference between us "little people" and those famous people is that they have the money to do whatever they want to do, while our financial limitations can only take us so far.

[T00000]

Everyone loves the question "what makes Bill more important than the rest of us?"...

Has anyone tried to turn the question around and ask "what makes ME more important than Bill Clinton?"

I've never done that, we're all equal

[nas]

My mum said that it's good a famous person goes to Columbia once in a while... the people make sure to clean up as nice as possible for all those reporters and such.

-_- sorry I did not post anything substantial relating to the topic


oh she's a nurse there

[T00000]

My mum said that it's good a famous person goes to Columbia once in a while... the people make sure to clean up as nice as possible for all those reporters and such.

-_- sorry I did not post anything substantial relating to the topic


oh she's a nurse there

??

[nas]

Mistar Clinton was admitted into Columbia Presbyterian. Where my mother dear works. Radom quip, like I said, nothing substantial. hah. hah.

[T00000]

Mistar Clinton was admitted into Columbia Presbyterian. Where my mother dear works. Radom quip, like I said, nothing substantial. hah. hah.

yeah can you like, stop posting things you view as "not substantial"? because you know, you're right.

[*lolita kitty*]

hmm.. so ur saying that the doctors care less about the president's health?

hah
i agree wit her

[madRooney]

ur god damn right lady

this doctor is a coward... anyway it should be the patient's decision whether to be operated or not.

[JustPeachy]

yea thats bad, i'v thought about that befor to like with celebrities, just because they are better known than most the get better treatment and stuff -_____________-

[rhqtpie]

they love the presidents more than us lol