Race: Biological or Socially Constructed Options

[Tung]

Is race biologically determined, or is it something we people socially constructed? Discuss. I'm hoping for a good debate.

[illriginal]

Is race biologically determined, or is it something we people socially constructed? Discuss. I'm hoping for a good debate.

Biologically... how would society construct race? o.O

[Tung]

Biologically... how would society construct race? o.O

For the past 30 years, it's been said that race is something us people have created. But there's some evidence recently that certain biological aspects might have part in determining your race. But there's really strong points on both sides of this argument.

[ersatz]

........

Ummm...the more melanin in your skin, the darker you are. The different shades make race...so I guess it's clearly biological. Kay.

[Tung]

That's probably correct. The point of the post, however, is that it is ok to admit that race is socially constructed even if you believe it has a biological basis.

I mean we were not born with a race. Our bodies doesn't technically hold essential racial truths. You talk about skin color. An example would be a person who is considered Black can have light skin, European features, straight hair, or blue eyes, or even all of these at the same time. Would he be considered Black or White if you are determining race from just physical features?

It could be socially constructed, as an example today. A 5'7 guy back in the 18th century, would be consider tall, but if you are talking about today, it would be consider average or short. Height is socially constructed.

That's the same for race. Scientists agree that race is socially constructed, and not having find a set of characteristics, that will always hold true for a particular race. However, of course there might be some biological component to race. Surely because we can all recognize and distinguish each other from physical characteristics of particular races, even though some people in these racial group may not have these characteristics.

It's been studied that there are no genes or single gene alone that determines race. Contrary to popular opinion, but it is said that there are more genetic differences and variations among intra-racial groups and it exceeds inter-racial groups. That is, greater genetic variation exists within the populations typically labeled Black and White than between these populations. This finding refutes the supposition that racial divisions reflect fundamental genetic differences.

But the point of the debate is not a simple matter just physical appearances like you pointed out. Because there is a strong argument on race being socially constructed, as racial classifications can change, and have changed drastically.

[Elba]

For the past 30 years, it's been said that race is something us people have created. But there's some evidence recently that certain biological aspects might have part in determining your race. But there's really strong points on both sides of this argument.

Yes, I agree. I read somewhere that we are all 90% alike in some sort of dna or something

[Elba]

That's probably correct. The point of the post, however, is that it is ok to admit that race is socially constructed even if you believe it has a biological basis.

I mean we were not born with a race. Our bodies doesn't technically hold essential racial truths. You talk about skin color. An example would be a person who is considered Black can have light skin, European features, straight hair, or blue eyes, or even all of these at the same time. Would he be considered Black or White if you are determining race from just physical features?

It could be socially constructed, as an example today. A 5'7 guy back in the 18th century, would be consider tall, but if you are talking about today, it would be consider average or short. Height is socially constructed.

That's the same for race. Scientists agree that race is socially constructed, and not having find a set of characteristics, that will always hold true for a particular race. However, of course there might be some biological component to race. Surely because we can all recognize and distinguish each other from physical characteristics of particular races, even though some people in these racial group may not have these characteristics.

It's been studied that there are no genes or single gene alone that determines race. Contrary to popular opinion, but it is said that there are more genetic differences and variations among intra-racial groups and it exceeds inter-racial groups. That is, greater genetic variation exists within the populations typically labeled Black and White than between these populations. This finding refutes the supposition that racial divisions reflect fundamental genetic differences.

But the point of the debate is not a simple matter just physical appearances like you pointed out. Because there is a strong argument on race being socially constructed, as racial classifications can change, and have changed drastically.

I agree 100%

[Reidar]

Lewontin's fallacy. Positing that most genetic discrepancies are contained within races for this point is ignoring the fact that most of the information that distinguishes populations is hidden in the corresponding structure of the data, not in the variation of the individual attributes.

It's a self-defeating position, really. In order for there to be social construct, there have to be outwardly objective alterations that can be synthetically categorized in the first place.

[Melissa]

lol, I'm actually about to write a research paper that kind of relates to this. Biologically speaking, it's more likely that an African-american man is closer to his white neighbor than an African guy in Nigeria (according to an article I read).

Race, itself, is something that's geographically constructed, imo. I mean, it's all dependent on where you're from. The color of your skin usually matches up to the environment where your "race" originated. People in areas that get lots of sun (near the equator) have darker skin that produces more melanin to avoid sun cancer in comparison to people in the north with light skin.

The problems (especially in America) that come along with race and the cultures that go along with certain races are socially constructed.

[Tung]

lol, I'm actually about to write a research paper that kind of relates to this. Biologically speaking, it's more likely that an African-american man is closer to his white neighbor than an African guy in Nigeria (according to an article I read).

Lol, yeah. I already said that.

Contrary to popular opinion, but it is said that there are more genetic differences and variations among intra-racial groups and it exceeds inter-racial groups. That is, greater genetic variation exists within the populations typically labeled Black and White than between these populations. This finding refutes the supposition that racial divisions reflect fundamental genetic differences.

And the reason I'm interested in this, and have a debate on this, was in my Cultural Anthropology class, there was a heated debate about this issue. It was really fun debating for a whole two hours in front of 300 people.

[Melissa]

I know. I agreed with you on that point.

"Race is a real cultural, political and economic concept in society, but it is not a biological concept, and that unfortunately is what many people wrongfully consider to be the essence of race in humans -- genetic differences," says Templeton. "Evolutionary history is the key to understanding race, and new molecular biology techniques offer so much on recent evolutionary history. I wanted to bring some objectivity to the topic. This very objective analysis shows the outcome is not even a close call: There's nothing even like a really distinct subdivision of humanity."

Since I do have a paper to write and it's almost 3am, I'm going to postpone whatever else I have to say and edit this post later.

[illriginal]

For the past 30 years, it's been said that race is something us people have created. But there's some evidence recently that certain biological aspects might have part in determining your race. But there's really strong points on both sides of this argument.

Can you uhm... source that?


And I would like to know the author of who claims that it's not biological...


What is said about ethnicity? That it's socially constructed as well?

[Melissa]

Read my last post where I quote a PhD working at Washington University in St. Louis.

Also, Google "race does not exist" and biologically or genetically.

You might also want to read this (originally in Scientific American): http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=00055D...BAA83414B7F0000



There's a lot of controversy in the claim that race is not biological. People wonder why, then, are African Americans more susceptible to sickle cell anemia, or what accounts for physical differences, etc. I really don't know enough about the subject to say anything at the moment, but I'm writing a research topic about this, so... maybe in a few days.

[illriginal]

I could agree that race is socially constructed only because here in America this is how we divide/identify people. Hispanic, Black, Caucasian, Asian, Pacific Islander, etc...

As for everything else... well it's about their origins, which would fall more into ethnicity than it would race.

[Tung]

Can you uhm... source that?

Yes, from my Anthropology professor. She's got a PHD from Stanford, so I trust her as a source much more than a website.

What is said about ethnicity? That it's socially constructed as well?

Watch where you are going with this. Because ethnicity and race are different, but ethnicity is definitely socially constructed. But we're discussing if race is as well.

Oh and did you ever heard of the one-drop rule?

[illriginal]

Yes, from my Anthropology professor. She's got a PHD from Stanford, so I trust her as a source much more than a website.
Watch where you are going with this. Because ethnicity and race are different, but ethnicity is definitely socially constructed. But we're discussing if race is as well.

Oh and did you ever heard of the one-drop rule?

the biological structure of someone can relate to other persons via ethnicity. Humanity needs a label by which we identify their ethnicity.