Quality Standards? Options

[digitalfragrance]

Alright. I have nothing personal against these designs, or their designers. In fact, some of these designers have other great layouts. However, I think that the ones on this list are EITHER...

A. Too simple for a DIV layout (not much content either)
B. Too simple for a Standard layout (no banners or contact tables...)
C. Low image quality
D. Inadequate designing

Granted, some are better or worse than others.

Are we adhering to what was discussed ealier about slightly raising quality standards as we go? I know that was a topic that all of us agreed on before I stepped down. Whether or not the mods are, it seems as if the quality of some layouts accepted is below the standards that we had.

http://www.createblog.com/layouts/code.php?id=25363
http://www.createblog.com/layouts/code.php?id=25268
http://www.createblog.com/layouts/code.php?id=25263
http://www.createblog.com/layouts/code.php?id=25262
http://www.createblog.com/layouts/code.php?id=25260
http://www.createblog.com/layouts/code.php?id=25294
http://www.createblog.com/layouts/code.php?id=25273
http://www.createblog.com/layouts/code.php?id=25215

Take it or leave it, but that's what I think. Does the community feels the same way I do?

*NOTE: I paid no attention to who accepted these.

[freeflow]

As you may or may not know we hired a bunch of new staff. With only one, Dani actually being fluent in what we do. Not to mention, I'm not sure we've even told them more about the raising of standards. You know, because you were on staff that we will actually be trying to do that gradually.

And also some of those layouts have already been brought up backstage. But there is nothing wrong with the ones like chris brown etc. We might not be a fan or we may find those tacky but I don't see how they fit any of the categories listed.

Anyway point is , we're still planning on gradually raising the standards. We're working with a full plate of new DS . We can't force things on them immediately. If that makes sense.

[Insurmountable]

I agree,

The first one for one, the whole default profile isn't hidden.
2. The second one is a big eyesore >_>
3. I see no problem with, its just a regular skinny, I don't think its to simple or anything, and I can see a lot of people using it.
4. Its fine, its a little awkward that they used a stripe background, because it doesn't match, but I guess someone would use it.
5. Its fine.
6. good too, except the background. Victorian style backgrounds are overused, and I believe that we made a agreement to stop accepting layouts with such backgrounds.
7. Simple yes, but its fine.


Yea, we hired new staff. But of course we told them to read the mod guide and stuff. I mean it will take time essentially. And I think the head staff/admins can go behind in the queue and reject anything that seems questionable that was already accepted. I do remember Trish doing that a while back, like when Dani was promoted and what not.

[digitalfragrance]

Toya - I know, but I think that it oughta be brought up so that they can learn. They are all great designers in their own right, so I know it won't be a problem for them.

Holly - The ones you mentioned being fine I could've gone either way. I agree about the victorian backgrounds.

[freeflow]

I'm not sure we've even told them more about the raising of standards. You know, because you were on staff that we will actually be trying to do that gradually.

And also some of those layouts have already been brought up backstage.

Things have been brought up, and mentioned. They can also read the threads. We just haven't been pressuring anyone into making sure everything accepted is amazing. It takes time to get it down. Even though they might not have all been accepted by new design staff, I'm just replying back to what you said.

[digitalfragrance]

^ Sure, I totally agree. It does take a little while, but I still think should be some critique as we go.

Actually, I think the new staff is doing well - MissHygienic found a small error in a layout I just submitted that I hadn't even seen, and rightfully rejected it The new DS is doing a great job.

I had noticed that some of the accepted layouts in general were starting to fall a little farther from the tree than normal, so I decided to bring it up.

[MissHygienic]

What's causing confusion for me is what's already been accepted. . .I accepted the first one because her other layout that was similar was accepted, as well, so I thought, "Okay, it's minimalist, and one has already been accepted, so I guess I should just accept this." It's not so much pressuring but uncertainty about what "raising standards" would entail, because I've rejected a lot already and have received a lot of complaints. "My other layout was accepted, why isn't this one?" and stuff like this.

But, yeah, feel free to reject anything I've accepted.

[freeflow]

^ Yea that happens a lot. Honestly though, most of the layouts linked up there are not that bad. I know the really minimal one in diff. colors was iffy to me, but going back and rejecting stuff isn't going to help. I think a lot of the staff posted saying how you guys have been doing with the queue. I've seen a lot of stuff rejected that should of been as as time goes on everyone's getting better at it, hence the less lower standard layouts that have been accepted. At least from my point of view. :)

And there has been critique, as I stated and I agree they are doing great in my opinion.

[libertie]

I'm totally with Whitney on the whole "well, her other layouts are similar and THEY got accepted.." thing. In fact, that happened a lot when I first rejoined the staff.

Personally, being that the idea is to gradually raise the standards, I think everyone for the most part is doing a good job and perhaps we just need to keep these things in mind when going through the queue.

[MissHygienic]

I try to keep all factors in mind when going through the queue. The things I look for the most are quality, concept, color, and originality. The two-column layouts are the hardest to judge, in my opinion. You can't really go wrong with two-column layouts, but I don't know if I should reject them or not because there are already large quantities of them. It's hard when it's a borderline thing for me.

I think I'm going to refer a few designers to this thread when they ask me why their layout was rejected [by me].

[pandora]

Except for the last one, I dont see anything wrong with those layouts. The standards arent too simple - they keep all aspects of the layout in mind (background, colors, banner, contact table) and left nothing unaccounted for.

The first div is supposed to be simple. The composition is good, the colors are good, the fonts are fine, the coding is fine. Why again should it be rejected?


I think it's pretty shady for you to put our efforts to gradually increase the standards of the resources out in the open like this, when you knew we weren't ready for that yet. We wanted to be able to show the community real results before we announced it, and you just f**ked that up. Thanks Rach.

[brooklyneast05]

as already said we have a completely new design staff who is learning to do the queue. i don't see the big deal. as others have said those layouts aren't even that bad.

it's cool that you're so interested in getting stuff going now. it's too bad you weren't so enthusiastic about getting the ball rolling when you would have actually had to do work.

[SharperMyspace]

You guys here might think they are low quality. But most of you who think the standards are low are graphics designers. The average myspace user will think these layouts are just fine.

[libertie]

You guys here might think they are low quality. But most of you who think the standards are low are graphics designers. The average myspace user will think these layouts are just fine.

Agreed, and that is something I feel like we should be keeping in mind when going through these. It is important to have high quality, but high quality for us is different from high quality for some people.

[Masta_Shih]

I've always felt that despite the differing quality tastes of all the moderators who accept layouts, createBlog has always been a place where you can find the most exceptional and cutting edge and innovative layouts. The most eye-pleasing, simply the best in cyberspace. I've always agreed that default style layouts should not be accepted, we can leave those to the lesser websites. createBlog's got some real talent, y'all really do. I've had my share of layouts (even DIV layered ones) rejected, I'm not bitter, life goes on. The fact is that we should have more than one person review the layout submission. Do the reviewers judge holostically? I know I wouldn't. Because of differing tastes, and the whole debate between whether we want more hits or higher quality layouts, I believe we should expand the reviewing staff, or have some sort of a showcase of how y'all grade.

[brooklyneast05]

^multiple people go through the queue. it's unrealistic to have multiple reviewers per layout.

[freeflow]

We do have guides for both layouts and graphics that set up a basis for how they should grade. We also have a thread for mods backstage in which they can communicate with each other on the layout submissions. Also when things are submitting that shouldn't have been its brought up there and mods talk about it. I don't really think any are judging on personal opinion, because those resources are there and help us out. Having more than one mod judge a layout is a good idea for the point that its not personal opinion, but it will take too long and the queue will NEVER get done. I'll tell you that now.


But if you ever have a question on your layout getting rejected by a certain person anyone can easily PM another mod and ask for their opinion.

[pandora]

The mods as a whole usually agree on most, if not all, layouts that get rejected, and if not we do bring it up and it gets thoroughly discussed. No mod (design staff, people staff, head staff, or admin) acts alone in their decisions (in any aspect of the site, not just the queue); they usually have the support of at least one other mod. We all double check each others work, so there have been times where previously rejected layouts get accepted in the end and vice versa.

[Insurmountable]

Well repeating what has already been spoken, the design staff, head staff, and admins have access to the queue. But only probably 5-6 actually go in there regularly I would say. Every person is on their own, but the higher ups do go in there and double check things, to see what should have been accepted that already was, and the person who accepted it gets asked questions on why they accepted and then usually its rejected.

I've never seen a discussion over a rejected layout, if its rejected, then well its in the black hole of createblog. I mean in most rejection letters they should give you a reason as to why it was rejected, and if not. Then simply PM the mod back and ask them what was the problem with the layout and what you could do to fix it so your layouts are accepted in the future.

if you posts some links, or you can even feel free to PM me and I'll look at your layouts and see what the problem could be.

[missnh]

lol, these look better than 9/10ths the shit I see all over Myspace.

[libertie]

^My thoughts exactly. xD

On the subject of multiple people reviewing.. The head staff and administrators do frequently go in the queue and look over what's been accepted and rejected. Nine times out of ten, something that's been rejected will stay that way, because it's that often that we all agree on something that has been rejected. What happens far more often is that someone has accepted something that needs to be rejected, and those odds don't exactly work in the submitter's favor, do they?

So in a sense, we do have multiple people reviewing what comes into the queue, and I think the way we do things is rather efficient.

[Smarmosaur]

oi. actually, those stripe layouts, i was pretty proud of. i was going to submit atleast 5, but decided i shouldn't push more than i have.
just to explain myself a bit, i was going for something COMPLETELY simple. sometimes, IMO, it's nice to just have a nice catchy layout without dozens of boxes. my friends also usually request one-box DIV's. it's really not like there's a rule with how many DIV boxes are on each layout. plus, it's not as if i just threw it together real quick. the color schemes took a while, then i had to figure out which main color looked best over the stripes, and do the rollovers. i honestly don't think the stripe layouts are that bad. KEEP IN MIND i'm not saying they're amazing or anything like that. i guess it's just a factor of personal taste here?

[Insurmountable]

^I don't think you really should be worried about it. Considering how old this thread is, and that your layout wasn't rejected by now, then aparently your layout was good enough.

I can't view the images, but of course I can see half of the defualt profile still showing, I would get to work on that and try getting rid of all of it...

[Smarmosaur]

i wasn't worried, and i didn't realize this topic was from february.
it really shows a lot of the profile? it's fine for me...

[libertie]

Hm.. I was just wondering. Has anyone reviewed this layout, or did Mike get permission? :X

http://www.createblog.com/layouts/preview.php?id=24236

http://nkeo.deviantart.com/art/Carnival-71841953

Ah.. I guess not. =\ Thanks, I'll take care of it.

[Melie]

well i also feel that there are some layouts that are being approved are almost all the same...no originality to them. some even look like something that someone put together while testing out photoshop like:
http://www.createblog.com/layouts/preview.php?id=25957
http://www.createblog.com/layouts/preview.php?id=25633
http://www.createblog.com/layouts/preview.php?id=25406
http://www.createblog.com/layouts/code.php?id=25153
http://www.createblog.com/layouts/preview.php?id=25139

now, i know that i don't make the best layouts either and i understand that we had gotten new admins and such. i'm just curious as to what is going to be done about the ones that are not really up to cb standards?

[MissHygienic]

well i also feel that there are some layouts that are being approved are almost all the same...no originality to them. some even look like something that someone put together while testing out photoshop like:
http://www.createblog.com/layouts/preview.php?id=25957
http://www.createblog.com/layouts/preview.php?id=25633
http://www.createblog.com/layouts/preview.php?id=25406
http://www.createblog.com/layouts/code.php?id=25153
http://www.createblog.com/layouts/preview.php?id=25139

now, i know that i don't make the best layouts either and i understand that we had gotten new admins and such. i'm just curious as to what is going to be done about the ones that are not really up to cb standards?

You should see the layouts that do get rejected.

And there's not a lot wrong with simple layouts. . .we can't expect everyone to make elaborate and decorated layouts. There's a category for "Minimal" for a reason. We're not going to go back to reject the ones that have already been accepted months ago, unless it's been discussed among everyone on Design Staff and the administrators. As of now, though, I think the layouts that have been reviewed and accepted have been fine.

[Melie]

You should see the layouts that do get rejected.

And there's not a lot wrong with simple layouts. . .we can't expect everyone to make elaborate and decorated layouts. There's a category for "Minimal" for a reason. We're not going to go back to reject the ones that have already been accepted months ago, unless it's been discussed among everyone on Design Staff and the administrators. As of now, though, I think the layouts that have been reviewed and accepted have been fine.

you're right...there are some that are really quite good. but what can really be considered minimal though? if someone puts a slash brush up and make a box in it, could it be considered minimal or just something that should be rejected?

[superficial]

well i also feel that there are some layouts that are being approved are almost all the same...no originality to them. some even look like something that someone put together while testing out photoshop like:
http://www.createblog.com/layouts/preview.php?id=25957
http://www.createblog.com/layouts/preview.php?id=25633
http://www.createblog.com/layouts/preview.php?id=25406
http://www.createblog.com/layouts/code.php?id=25153
http://www.createblog.com/layouts/preview.php?id=25139

now, i know that i don't make the best layouts either and i understand that we had gotten new admins and such. i'm just curious as to what is going to be done about the ones that are not really up to cb standards?

I don't see anything wrong with those layouts they're posted. At least they're not shit quality and have horrible codings made by a generator (Which shouldn't even be accepted in the first place). I'm sure that the design staffers know what to look for when they're reviewing layouts and other things in queue. And they don't really look like things that were tested. They're actually pretty nice. It actually looks like they tried to make a layout nice, not just slapping something together and making it look like shit.

you're right...there are some that are really quite good. but what can really be considered minimal though? if someone puts a slash brush up and make a box in it, could it be considered minimal or just something that should be rejected?

I don't get how that could be accepted. Putting a slash brush and just having a box isn't even creative at all and doesn't even meet any of the submission requirements. I think this would be considered as minimal seeing as though it's not extreme or anything. It's pretty plain, simple and clean. At least it's still nice and the coding isn't mad either.

[pandora]

just back to check on things before i gotta go again:

i understand that we had gotten new admins and such. i'm just curious as to what is going to be done about the ones that are not really up to cb standards?

as admins (or do you mean design staffers?) we have the highest standards that cb has had in a long while. those layouts arent all that bad (except for the first one which has some rigid lines and will be rejected shortly). just because they're simple does not mean that they are sub par. that's the style of the layout. i have to repeat what Whitney just sad: If you think those are bad, you should see the ones that we do reject.

[Melie]

just back to check on things before i gotta go again:
as admins (or do you mean design staffers?) we have the highest standards that cb has had in a long while.
i have to repeat what Whitney just said: If you think those are bad, you should see the ones that we do reject.

i believe you when you say that lol. and i think that the cb standard is very high because when i first started here, i got so many layouts rejected before i finally got one approved. and i've gotten quite a few disapproved too. but i'm just curious as to how the staff goes about doing this kind of stuff. it's really interesting to me. for now, i think that the staff is doing a awesome job and i would like to say keep up the great work!

[Insurmountable]

well i also feel that there are some layouts that are being approved are almost all the same...no originality to them. some even look like something that someone put together while testing out photoshop like:
http://www.createblog.com/layouts/preview.php?id=25957
http://www.createblog.com/layouts/preview.php?id=25633
http://www.createblog.com/layouts/preview.php?id=25406
http://www.createblog.com/layouts/code.php?id=25153
http://www.createblog.com/layouts/preview.php?id=25139

now, i know that i don't make the best layouts either and i understand that we had gotten new admins and such. i'm just curious as to what is going to be done about the ones that are not really up to cb standards?

Hmm I kind of agree with you, some of those are really good though I have to say.

The first one isn't that great, even the links don't look like they should be there, with the color they used for them and the font.

Also the last one I think is tacky. The image doesn't seem like it fits with the layout and the size of the images with the size of the header text is just a weird combination I guess you can say.


Now that I've finally been able to see what the third one looked like, I just can't see to many of those people accepted. Maybe a couple, but that is it. I'm one of those people that absolutely loves simplicity. But this just seems to simple. Its one big image slapped on top of a stripped pattern, and the colors just don't seem that good. But of course that is my personal opinion. I just think for such a simple layout it should have better colors that seem more pleasing to the eye. But as I said, I do remember seeing in another post that the designer wanted to submit like 5 more or something like that, but I can't see that many being made and accepted, maybe a couple of course.

[emberfly]

oi. actually, those stripe layouts, i was pretty proud of. i was going to submit atleast 5, but decided i shouldn't push more than i have.
just to explain myself a bit, i was going for something COMPLETELY simple. sometimes, IMO, it's nice to just have a nice catchy layout without dozens of boxes. my friends also usually request one-box DIV's. it's really not like there's a rule with how many DIV boxes are on each layout. plus, it's not as if i just threw it together real quick. the color schemes took a while, then i had to figure out which main color looked best over the stripes, and do the rollovers. i honestly don't think the stripe layouts are that bad. KEEP IN MIND i'm not saying they're amazing or anything like that. i guess it's just a factor of personal taste here?

Even though I'm not staff or anything, I still read through page one. I must totally agree with what everyone on page one, also. I think rockitstudios did a great job on that layout. I know tons of people that really like 1 box divs, me especially. I know my thaught probably doesn't matter, but good job rockitstudios.. I really liked that one.


EDIT//

please read this:


I got bored (as usual) and decided to look through all the old, old, OLD layouts on createblog. I was curious about why some of my layouts were rejected and why those god-awful layouts were accepted? please go back to page 461+ of the layout pages and look at those awful creations. I'm not saying all of them were bad, but 99/100 were horrific.

EDIT//(again)

Heck, go back to say page 400+ .. some of them are still god-awful, and a whole lot of them have broken image links.

[MissHygienic]

Emberfly, standards were lower back then. I'm sure CreateBlog was still in its early stages. . .you can't use the past's standards to set the standards now. No one cares about the layouts 400 pages back. Layouts now are much more advanced and with a lot of creativity.

[brooklyneast05]

please read this:
I got bored (as usual) and decided to look through all the old, old, OLD layouts on createblog. I was curious about why some of my layouts were rejected and why those god-awful layouts were accepted? please go back to page 461+ of the layout pages and look at those awful creations. I'm not saying all of them were bad, but 99/100 were horrific.

that question is irrelevant considering it's not even the same staff rejecting your layouts that accepted those. i think you're being extremely dramatic calling layouts god awful and horrific. it's not that big of a deal, standards change from staff to staff, and like whitney said, no one cares about layouts 461 pages back.

your layouts got rejected because they weren't good enough to get accepted. it's pretty simple.

[Insurmountable]

We have done a lot of major house cleanings but I don't think its that big of a deal to waste our time now to go all the way back to where createblog was first starting out and all the layouts that look like completely shit to what people can make now to be rejected. There isn't a need and I don't think anyone is really bothered by them. The point is now, we are making are standards higher and for now on the layouts that are being accepted are going by these higher standards and not by the little ones we had in the past.

[misoshiru]

please read this:
I got bored (as usual) and decided to look through all the old, old, OLD layouts on createblog. I was curious about why some of my layouts were rejected and why those god-awful layouts were accepted? please go back to page 461+ of the layout pages and look at those awful creations. I'm not saying all of them were bad, but 99/100 were horrific.

EDIT//(again)

Heck, go back to say page 400+ .. some of them are still god-awful, and a whole lot of them have broken image links.

please. if you go back 400+ pages, that was when createblog was in its early stages back in 04. createblog was a much smaller community with its designers still starting out. it's very different from today when many members and designers understand coding much better than before. think of it as when you started out designing. how good were you back then? probably shit. in a way, those designs are like that. not to say that they are shit, but it was when many of the members who submitted their layouts were starting to grasp coding.

[brooklyneast05]

how good were you back then? probably shit.

dude was like 10 years old

[misoshiru]

lol. forreals?

[synatribe]

I can see where digital fragrance is coming from but people have a tendency to make better things once they are appreciated like me, my layouts were crap but once it got accpeted I was so excited and now Im like always submitting to createblog, I was going to loose my interest until I regained confidence.

So my complicated point is that people are still learning and experiencing so although to some people those layout might be"shit" to others its like a miracle that keeps their drives up. I think all layouts should be respected because afterall they were accepeted and I bet all the layout have favorites and even satisfy one person is really fulfilling but I think this thread put some designers down although peopel use "no offense" I find it more offensive when people do that