How to explain homosexuality? Options

[Call911Quick]

OK, so as not to step on any toes, let's assume evolution is how the world came about.

Now, homosexuality goes against every theory of evolution that has been thought up. There are certain lizards somewhere that are all female, but they don't have sex. They lay unfertilized eggs, so essentially they clone themselves.

We're studying how and why sex and sexual reproduction developed and everything. So, obviously, homosexuality isn't "programmed" into us.

So what makes a guy gay? Is it increased levels of estrogen? Decreased levels of testosterone? Is it psychological/self-induced, or can you not help it?

I don't understand how any guy can be gay. Lesbians turn me on, but I mean... Ever take a REALLY big shit? Imagine that, but backwards. And continuous. I mean... it's like watching two porcupines have sex. Wait, that's a bad metaphor, more like... watching gorillas have sex.

[Insurmountable]

...

watching gorillas have sex.

That makes me think of the end of Ace Ventura..the second one I believe and how the gorilla grabs the guy and starts banging him.. ( watched it last night o_O)

Anyway..Personally I think its all psychological and self induced. I just can't see how someone is born gay and I will never believe that. I think people turn gay or attracted to the same sex through their experiences in life. For instance if a chick was raped when she was a child or mis treated by a man then it could make her unattracted to men which would leave her to attracted to women.

[ersatz]

The same way depression or bipolar disorder or psychosis or schizophrenia or Tourette's syndrome or even Down's syndrome are not "normal" by biological standards. It just happens. Luck of the draw, gay or straight.

[S-Majere]

Ah, but scientists have forced animals (male rams and fruitflies)to change their sexual orientation through the use of chemicals.

If we could cure homosexuality that way then why not implement it? After all, I'm sure many people would be glad that psychosis or schizophrenia or Tourette's or Downs could be fixed through chemical manipluation, so why not homosexuality?

I think it's because homosexuality is seen as a choice and a lifestyle. I don't think it can be.

[Call911Quick]

But we know the reason for genetic disorders. Is homosexuality a genetic problem? If it's not genetic, then it's not inborn, and that would mean that it's self-induced, or environment-induced.

[S-Majere]

Is homosexuality a genetic problem?

I believe so.

I read an interesting article on scientists' experiments to alter sexual orientation, let me see if I can find a link to it.

[pandamonium]

Anyway..Personally I think its all psychological and self induced. I just can't see how someone is born gay and I will never believe that. I think people turn gay or attracted to the same sex through their experiences in life. For instance if a chick was raped when she was a child or mis treated by a man then it could make her unattracted to men which would leave her to attracted to women.

This is how I see it. I am gay myself. so yea.

Not everything is perfect. Sure, nature does state that it is supposed to have a male and female in order for survival of a species, but sooner or later there will be a variance, especially human beings since we are exposed to so many things.

People evolve and change, not everything is going to be the same for the next hundred years. There is a new disease that comes out every day, and we have no idea how to cure it.

That is how I explain homosexuality.

But for being born with it, i think it is true.

When I was a child I did things that were very gay, and I am not ashamed to admit it. I used to put all my stuffed animals in the living room and play with them, In 2nd grade the spice girls was probably the first cd I ever bought.

I never knew back then that they were very fem but later on i realized.

The only thing that turned me was that, I wanted a family with my own kids and i knew i had to be married with a woman to do that so i thought of myself more of a bisexual.

I am in class right now so i will edit this later or add more.

[*Steven*]

BEING HOMOSEXUAL MEANS YOU'RE BROKEN AND YOU HAVE TO REPENT TO GOD AND BEG HIS FORGIVENESS SO THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE A CHANCE OF GOING THROUGH PURGATORY FOR BEING A SINNER WHERE YOU MIGHT POSSIBLY GO TO HEAVEN IF YOU ADMIT THAT BEING GAY IS A PROBLEM AND YOU'RE BROKEN.

[brooklyneast05]

god made gay people gay.

[*Steven*]

god made gay people gay.

what a f*g

[brooklyneast05]

what a f*g

don't be mean, he was born that way ok?


---------------------------------------------------------------

oh yeah. i think also to say that homosexuality and evolution can't work together, then you're assuming that all of the human/animals are going to be exclusively homosexual. that's not the case though. animals might take part in homosexual behavior but they aren't necessarily in "gay" relationships only, they still reproduce with the opposite sex. same thing of humans.

i duno what i think about homosexuality being genetic. i can't make up my mind. i don't think either way that it's black and white. if it's genetic, then i think it's a complex combination of genetics and other things. it's not simple like my eyes being brown.

I don't understand how any guy can be gay. Lesbians turn me on, but I mean... Ever take a REALLY big shit? Imagine that, but backwards. And continuous. I mean... it's like watching two porcupines have sex. Wait, that's a bad metaphor, more like... watching gorillas have sex.

i don't get what that has to do with anything in the argument. it's not your preference so you don't understand it. i don't really understand how guys can be gay either, but i also don't understand why someone would be turned on by lesbians. gay guys and lesbians are the same thing in my book. i don't think you really have to act so disgusted by it just because it's not your preference, because then you just end up coming off like your better than them or that your preference is the "right" one. they aren't "right" by your standards because they like a kind homosexual behavior, you aren't "right" by my standards because you like a kind of homosexual behavior too. so it's kinda pointless to compare everyone that way, i think. since we all like different stuff, there isn't an over all right.

[B-NOX]

where brooklyn at where brooklyn at


biggie was from brooklyn

well

i just hate gay people

[brooklyneast05]

i just hate gay people

don't post in here then, this thread is a debate, it's not about if you hate gay people or not. if you aren't going to debate then don't post nonsense in here.

[B-NOX]

okay okay

( masta ace was from booklyn too)

[sheridan_whitesi...]

The OP is woefully ignorant of the vibrant gorilla erotica community.

[ersatz]

Ah, but scientists have forced animals (male rams and fruitflies)to change their sexual orientation through the use of chemicals.

If we could cure homosexuality that way then why not implement it? After all, I'm sure many people would be glad that psychosis or schizophrenia or Tourette's or Downs could be fixed through chemical manipluation, so why not homosexuality?

I think it's because homosexuality is seen as a choice and a lifestyle. I don't think it can be.

Because it isn't hurting or impairing anyone's life. Those other diseases are directly negatively affecting the person afflicted's life. Being gay doesn't do that; other people do it because they are gay.

[*yrrnotelekktric*]

OK, so as not to step on any toes, let's assume evolution is how the world came about.

Now, homosexuality goes against every theory of evolution that has been thought up. There are certain lizards somewhere that are all female, but they don't have sex. They lay unfertilized eggs, so essentially they clone themselves.

We're studying how and why sex and sexual reproduction developed and everything. So, obviously, homosexuality isn't "programmed" into us.

So what makes a guy gay? Is it increased levels of estrogen? Decreased levels of testosterone? Is it psychological/self-induced, or can you not help it?

I don't understand how any guy can be gay. Lesbians turn me on, but I mean... Ever take a REALLY big shit? Imagine that, but backwards. And continuous. I mean... it's like watching two porcupines have sex. Wait, that's a bad metaphor, more like... watching gorillas have sex.

Specialists believe that homosexuality is determined during pregnancy, like if the mother endures excessive stress, etc.

IMO, i don`t think it`s genetic. I think it has something to do with environment, and psychology obviously.

This may have a connection with epigenetics, which is also very, very interesting. You should check it out.

[Comptine]

Didn't we have like 20 other topics like this?

But, there can be like a genetic link or physical/bodily link to homosexuality. Concordant twin studies have shown that with identical twins, if one was gay, the other was gay too in about 50% of the cases. That percentage goes down when fraternal twins were studied.

Let's say that it is genetic: Some genes in our DNA turn on or off or mutate. Though genetic mutations are rare, it could explain how "genetic homosexuality" can happen.

Let's say it's nurture: If someone grew around homosexual ideas and behavior, and they end up homosexual, then you can see how environment impacts the behavior/sexuality of someone. However, how do you explain how there's a large percentage of gay people who come from very homophobic backgrounds?

I personally think it's wiring and chemicals inside the brain. Straight Bob looks at a woman and he gets happy chemicals released or arousal chemicals released, Straight Bob would be inclined and more attracted to women. However, if Gay George look at a man and got the same reaction Straight Bob got from looking at a woman, then he might be more inclined towards men.

[LoveToMySilas]

Actually, it IS programmed into some of us. I remember my teacher telling me something about how we all have channels in our brains. Some of us have 2 (straight) while others have 4 (gay). I think if you look it up you can find out more about it, but yeah, you're born with it.

[ersatz]

I think some people are getting confused when saying "genetic" when referring to homosexuality...it doesn't mean that you inherit it from your parents, just that it's a bodily reaction that's uncontrollable.

[Kontroll]

As a gay man I am terrifically offended by this topic.

[absinthe]

An aversion to homosexuality, or the belief that it isn't "natural" isn't programmed into us either.

If you think about it, the very concept of was IS natural is essentially socialized.

But let's keep running with evolution.

Assume males have slowly begun to evolve into homosexual beings.
Assume males have now turned completely into homosexual beings.
Assume now that the reproductive organs of males has changed.
Assume now that the reproductive change allows males to reproduce.

Evolution, is endless.

[monster]

n*gga that shits gay

[freeridefight]

n*gga that shits gay

any addition to this topic?

After reading all of the replys, it is interesting. I can only speculate as to why it is.

No I don't believe it has anything to do at all with evolution. We are "turning" gay because of evolution. I believe it is because of how you were raised and how you reacted personally with your environment. In other words in regards with psychology. Also, I am open to how you may have different reactions of chemicals in your brain.

//edit

sorry I meant that not because of evoultion

[absinthe]

any addition to this topic?

After reading all of the replys, it is interesting. I can only speculate as to why it is.

No I don't believe it has anything to do at all with evolution. We are "turning" gay because of evolution. I believe it is because of how you were raised and how you reacted personally with your environment. In other words in regards with psychology. Also, I am open to how you may have different reactions of chemicals in your brain.

Lol. That wasn't my point. The point was, if we're going to chalk homosexuality as "wrong" because evolution made reproduction possible only through male and female relations, then what's the say in the future that homosexual relations won't produce the same. You can't base a theory on evolution if you're not 100% that evolution has ended.

It's all in the mind.

It IS psychological. I agree on that, but what does chemicals in the brain have anything to do with this? That's like saying liking strawberries more than cranberries is a chemical reaction in the brain.

Then it brings us to the point of, who stipulated that all relations have to HAVE the capacity for reproduction.

[NoSex]

It IS psychological. I agree on that, but what does chemicals in the brain have anything to do with this? That's like saying liking strawberries more than cranberries is a chemical reaction in the brain.

I'll say it: Liking strawberries more than cranberries is a chemical reaction in the brain. f**k, everything is a chemical reaction in the brain. Sure, out taste pallet has a lot to do with this, but only in relation to the illicit response, in our brain and carried out by chemical markers, that is created biologically.

Sure, a lot of things are psychological, but only to the degree that our nature, our biology, permits. Not matter how convinced we are that we can fly, the shit just ain't going to happen. What we do know is that sexual orientation has not been observed to freely change due to external nurture and stimulus in, at least, adult years and sexual maturity. What we do know is that the complex play of hormonal activity, which largely excites sexual thought and behavior, is controlled by proteins, which are genetically released.

So, in short, "chemical reactions in the brain" have a shit load to do with it.

[absinthe]

Fair enough. Then why should the choice between strawberries and cranberries be any different than female and male? It would be a normal chemical reaction, and therefore not worth mentioning.

[Comptine]

The chemical reactions differ for each person. Some people have disorders or something it malfunctioning so certain chemicals get released too much or too little. That's how depression occurs. Not enough seratonin.

I'm not saying anything is wrong about being gay. But there have been other cases where certain bodily reactions reflect a different or abnormal secretion of chemicals.

When there is something that gives you pleasure, dopamine is released. Some people really like relaxing in a bath. So when they think about a bath or look at a bubbly bath ready for them, dopamine is released therefore reinforcing that a bath is pleasurable.

Whose to say that relation in pleasure can't be applied to sexuality?

[fameONE]

The chemical reactions differ for each person. Some people have disorders or something it malfunctioning so certain chemicals get released too much or too little. That's how depression occurs. Not enough seratonin.

I'm not saying anything is wrong about being gay. But there have been other cases where certain bodily reactions reflect a different or abnormal secretion of chemicals.

When there is something that gives you pleasure, dopamine is released. Some people really like relaxing in a bath. So when they think about a bath or look at a bubbly bath ready for them, dopamine is released therefore reinforcing that a bath is pleasurable.

Whose to say that relation in pleasure can't be applied to sexuality?

All you did was explain what happens in someone's brain when they "feel" a certain way, which didn't clarify much.

[Comptine]

^The happy chemicals get released or are stimulated by a certain perceived "pleasure". If someone were to have a differently wired brain, looking at the same sex could stimulate the happy chemicals. Each time someone looks at the same sex, the happy chemicals get released and reinforces the good of the "subject".

[fameONE]

^The happy chemicals get released or are stimulated by a certain perceived "pleasure". If someone were to have a differently wired brain, looking at the same sex could stimulate the happy chemicals. Each time someone looks at the same sex, the happy chemicals get released and reinforces the good of the "subject".

I was able to comprehend it the first time. Thanks.

The better question would be; is a person born with a brain that is "wired" to be gay, based on sound scientific proof?

[Comptine]

^I'm sorry. I thought you thought that the chemicals came before the "pleasure".

Well, sound concrete scientific proof... I'm not sure. But, with MRIs , scientists have seen differences between a straight brain and a homosexual brain. Shrug.

[NoSex]

The better question would be; is a person born with a brain that is "wired" to be gay, based on sound scientific proof?

More proof in that direction than not. At the very least, scientifically, sexual orientation does not appear to be a choice. That's not exactly an explanation, but at least we can rule out kids going gay from catching re-runs of Will & Grace on day-time television.