Water Boarding Options

[jaeman]

Many of you may recall this topic being discussed as a political issue in the current 2008 Presidential Election.

For those who aren't familiar with the topic, water boarding is a form of tortue which utilizes water and simulates drowning in a controlled setting. The process has allegedly been used by the CIA to interrogate detained terrorists and is seen more of an interrogation technique than torture. That's right, United States law does not recognize water boarding as a form of torture and allows the practice. Seems ironic because government officials claim that the United States of America definitely does not practice torture.

Do you think water boarding should be classified as tortue in United States law and the practice be stopped?

[MissHygienic]

What the f**k? This is wrong. I can hardly think about this rationally, and I'll state my emotional appeals about this topic.

Yes, I think it's clearly torture because the consequences include trauma and possible injuries to the lungs. I think, of all things, the government is insensitive to mental problems. I know plenty of people with mental illnesses who cannot qualify for life insurance, and even though that's not relevant, I think the American government rides on a, "have to see it to believe it" mentality. If they allow this because, well, they can't see the permanent marks it leaves on a person, case in point.

There are smarter and less detrimental ways of interrogating their victims. This isn't one of them. Of course, I don't know how often they opt to "waterboard" people, but I still don't think this should be a viable technique.

[fameONE]

I wrote an editorial on this a while back...

The only reason why this is a hot button issue is because it was brought to light. If most Americans only knew what really went on behind closed doors with the alphabet boys and civilian contracting organizations, our country would be in shambles. Its only so much I can speak of, though.

[jaeman]

I wrote an editorial on this a while back...

The only reason why this is a hot button issue is because it was brought to light. If most Americans only knew what really went on behind closed doors with the alphabet boys and civilian contracting organizations, our country would be in shambles. Its only so much I can speak of, though.

True, a lot of stuff happens, really.

[*Steven*]

The public doesn't need to know. You can expect to do everything politically correct and still get your way. If the enemies are using guerrillas tactics, you don't still use conventional war tactics and march in a straight line at them...

[fameONE]

The public doesn't need to know. You can expect to do everything politically correct and still get your way. If the enemies are using guerrillas tactics, you don't still use conventional war tactics and march in a straight line at them...

Exactly.

The general public doesn't understand that.

[Comptine]

I personally think, waterboarding is torture. However, even if it was labeled torture, that doesn't really stop the secret agencies of America (or any other countries) from using it. If it's behind closed doors without anyone knowing, it's probably gonna still happen.

[tokyo-rose]

I personally think, waterboarding is torture. However, even if it was labeled torture, that doesn't really stop the secret agencies of America (or any other countries) from using it. If it's behind closed doors without anyone knowing, it's probably gonna still happen.

Yeah, pretty much my thoughts. I learned about this in US History earlier in the year when we talked about the Iraqi War. It should definitely be classified as a torture method.

[Simba]

Because the ends justify the means! Byah!


There's a lot behind closed doors that the general public wouldn't know. The general public is generally dumb.

On the CNN news ticker today, it said something about water boarding is no longer practiced (I'd assume by America) or something along those lines. Anyhow, I'm frankly, doubtful.

[fameONE]

There's a lot of strong-arm tactics the that government, and "non-government civilian contracting firms" use as a means to extract information. This never comes to light because it isn't supposed to. The main reason why waterboaring will remain "legal" for the CIA is because, technically, the interrogated party isn't being done any bodily harm, so it isn't torture per se. The process will just make the interrogated party feel like he/she is drowing, at that point, possibly causing mild trauma from shock. In the end, the interrogated party spills the beans. Effectiveness.

[karmakiller]

I think it's odd how naive some Americans can be. I remember when Abu Ghraib (or however it's spelled) was a big issue and then it just seemed to dissipate. It's like if it doesn't effect them first hand they pay no attention. I'm sure that soon this won't be a big issue to people, there's other things that effect them first hand that they'll be more focused on. Should it still be done? I don't think the public has much say in it. The secret service will do whatever they see fit. Other countries do much worse things than America, and if the person with the imformation is still alive and breathing, and not bleeding, I don't think many higher ups would consider it torture.

[Comptine]

Abu Ghraib - some tactics used didn't cause bodily harm but caused a lot of psychological damage. Just because there's no mark doesn't mean it didn't hurt.[/size]

[*Steven*]

Abu Ghraib - some tactics used didn't cause bodily harm but caused a lot of psychological damage. Just because there's no mark doesn't mean it didn't hurt.[/size]

What a sissy.

So why were these prisoners in there? Did they maybe do something, anti-US? Did they maybe, try to kill our soldiers? BOO f**kING HOO. They're in prison for a reason. What are supposed to do, give them cable TV, air conditioning, a comfortable bed, and meals on a daily basis? Are we supposed to give them a better life than they had before they were admitted? That's some stupid shit right there. Let them burn outside, let them be humiliated, tortured. They knew what they were getting into when they opposed the United States.

[brooklyneast05]

They knew what they were getting into when they opposed the United States.

x2

you get what you've got coming to you eventually when you get into that kinda shit

[Comptine]

I didn't say they were saints or did nothing wrong.

The CIA got into trouble for the dehumanization of the prisoners. The soldiers were dishonorably discharged. They did something ethically wrong and they got caught.

There are certain ethics that have to be maintained for everyone on this planet. What our country did to the prisoners can be done to our own troops.

Why is it perfectly okay for us to feel outrage over our POWs getting hurt but it's apparently "sissy" and karma when non-Americans suffer the same treatment?

It wasn't that Abu Ghraib was just scare tactics against our enemies. Our country violated international code. The soliders dehumanized other human beings, whether they were enemies or not. The ethics code was created because of the history of unethical practices (especially with POWs in Japanese and Vietnamese POW camps and concentration camps and etc.)

[*Steven*]

Look, we didn't start that shit on their soldiers til they did it to ours. They started it. We continued it. It's the American media that gets people so butthurt then they're like, WERE PRO HUMAN LIFE! WE HAVE TO TREAT THE PEOPLE WHO WERE TRYING TO KILL US NICELY! THAT WAY THEIR OTHER SOLDIERS KNOW THAT IF THEY TRY TO KILL US WELL CAPTURE THEM AND BE NICE IN RETURN! You're probably a fan of John McCain (LOLRINO) or Hilary, huh?

[Comptine]

Oh, that's real mature. That's perfect for foreign policy. "They started it!"

What about when our POWs had bamboo slivers shoved up their fingernails or tied to rotating fans while their legs were held down? Or what about all the other times our POWs suffered dehumanization?

I'm not asking to shower them with flowers and candies and puppies. I'm saying, treat them like human beings.

Sometimes, Americans lose sight that, yes, outside of our country, there are other humans.

We maintain a certain level of ethical codes to ensure each individual the same treatment. It's not a perfect system, of course.

Besides, the Iraqi insurgents are defending their own country because we stormed into theirs. They fight because we started it. Is that okay?

[*Steven*]

Do you have an understanding of what war is? I'm not claiming to know what it's like, but I'm sure it's way worse than any of us could imagine (without having been). Being polite and courteous is in the back of your mind when you're trying to deter the enemies and stay alive. Are you familiar with the concept of deterrence?

[fameONE]

I'm not asking to shower them with flowers and candies and puppies. I'm saying, treat them like human beings.

Al Qaeda deserves no such thing. Terrorist cells that follow the "supposed" Al Qaeda doctrine are all over the world. Just last year, a Marine was beheaded in the Philippines and his body was sent back to base.

Wait, I got one better, shortly after my friend from high school was killed in Samarra, Iraq, a soldier in his brigade was burned alive after being captured. He was a field radio operator.

Sometimes, Americans lose sight that, yes, outside of our country, there are other humans.

We maintain a certain level of ethical codes to ensure each individual the same treatment. It's not a perfect system, of course.

We live in a world full of bastards. Life ain't all flowers and sunshine, sweetheart. Ethics go out of the window when IEDs become a primary means of attack, for them.

Besides, the Iraqi insurgents are defending their own country because we stormed into theirs. They fight because we started it. Is that okay?[/font]

Insurgents are defending their ideals, not their country.

[Comptine]

I can understand gunning someone down and killing people in war. That's what war is.

How do you explain such acts of cruelty and lack of ethics during an interrogation? Or while the people are locked up, after you already captured them? Do you really think one insurgent being torture will deter others? Even death can't deter insurgents.

Once again, I'm not asking an American soldier to shower an enemy with love or say, "please and thank you".

I say, there should be a simple, basic standard to treat everyone as HUMAN BEINGS.

Edit:
I'm not naive. But I think, if you can't even maintain other people's humanity, there's something extremely wrong. If that's the case and people are perfectly fine with it, I think the entire world needs to collapse and die. Brandon, I know you're in the military so you have a better handle and knowledge of things. But, I know that you feel outrage when your comrades and friends are treated like that. Why is it okay for us to reciprocate?

Iraqi insurgents = people not very happy Americans took over their homeland. I was under the impression that there were religious/ideals insurgents and No-American insurgents.

I'm just saying: Ethics are(should) needed. And, waterboarding is torture. Whether it should be used or whatever, I rather I not know how our intelligence is gathered.

[brooklyneast05]

it depends on what's at stake

[fameONE]

it depends on what's at stake

Outstanding, Sir.

I can understand gunning someone down and killing people in war. That's what war is.

How do you explain such acts of cruelty and lack of ethics during an interrogation? Or while the people are locked up, after you already captured them? Do you really think one insurgent being torture will deter others? Even death can't deter insurgents.

Once again, I'm not asking an American soldier to shower an enemy with love or say, "please and thank you".

I say, there should be a simple, basic standard to treat everyone as HUMAN BEINGS.

In theory, that is fine and dandy. You certainly stay within the governed paramaters of the Geneva Conventions. I leave in August for Iraq (kill), so don't expect me to operate with any diplomacy (kill) when I'm getting shot at.

[Comptine]

^ I urge you to shoot back. I'll pay you to shoot back.

My point is that... you know, once you captured someone and he's locked up, it's not okay to dehumanize them, which is what a lot of torture is.

[*Steven*]

Yeah it is. Do you know what deterrence is?


Here's a grossly exaggerated example. Someone jaywalks, and a police detains them then beats the shit out of them with a night stick. You're going to think twice before you jaywalk, huh?

[karmakiller]

^ I urge you to shoot back. I'll pay you to shoot back.

My point is that... you know, once you captured someone and he's locked up, it's not okay to dehumanize them, which is what a lot of torture is.

I'm not as well informed about this as some people might be, but if the insurgents are doing inhumane things to other people than why does that still give them the rights to be treated like they were an American? They're not on American soil, so a lot of American ethics and values don't always apply. Things like this, and worse, have been going on for ages, but people always turn a blind eye.

[fameONE]

I'm not as well informed about this as some people might be, but if the insurgents are doing inhumane things to other people than why does that still give them the rights to be treated like they were an American? They're not on American soil, so a lot of American ethics and values don't always apply. Things like this, and worse, have been going on for ages, but people always turn a blind eye.

The Geneva Conventions. We have to behave ourselves.

[*Steven*]

The Geneva Conventions. We have to behave ourselves.

IMO, it should be what goes around comes around.