Will religion fade out? Options

[*Steven*]

I think eventually religion will just fade out.

To the Debate Forum!

Nope. People need religion. There are so many who don't want to search for an answer or an explanation to the unexplained, and religion is a very easy answer. Why did this happen? Oh, god's will!

So, will religion fade out? Maybe organized religion? Ideas? Thoughts?

[MissHygienic]

Hmm, this is my non-religious take on it.

My plain answer: No. Few spend the time to examine why they believe what they believe. Most understand what they believe and may study it thoughtfully and not hesitating to declare their opinions. A child's mind is like an empty hole waiting to be filled with information, and whatever is installed first has the best chance of staying permanently.

The majority of Christians are so because they were raised by Christians. The majority of Muslims were raised by Muslims. The majority of Hindus were raised by Hindus. Even those who reject their own religion later on in life hold traces of their religious beliefs because they grew up around it. Whether it be saving your virginity until marriage, wanting to have a family right out of high school, or that abortion is always wrong.

Religion is far too universally popular to fade out. Religion is a powerful tool in which certain beliefs or ideas are no longer about the world at large, but is something woven into people's personality and mind. The beliefs become part of them at a deep, intrinsic level. I think a lot of people find religion to be absolute unlike the rest of the world. Nothing God says can be faulted; every word in the Bible is 100 percent true.

Whatever gets into a mind first, stays the longest. Adults are more than happy to teach children what to think, but rarely teach the child how to think. Critical thinking requires asking a lot of questions. Critical thinking requires gathered evidence to reach a quality conclusion rather than saying something along the lines of, "Because I/God said so."

[MissFits]

No, their are new religions created all the time. People have always been looking for something to believe that's higher than us or explains why we are here. There is no chance religion will fade out.

[brooklyneast05]

as long as poor, weak, and ignorant people exist, so will religion imo

[*CowerPointyObjects*]

I saw an episode of South Park the other day in which the world was solely atheist, and there still managed to be religious (or anti-religious, I suppose) factions. Even if religion were to fade out (which it won't, because people need something to believe in), they will find something else to believe in (like science, in the episode), and none of the problems created by religion will actually go away.

Yeah I based my argument off of an episode of South Park.

[*Steven*]

Southpark is ftw. For instance, smog meets smug. OH GOD.

[Joss-eh-lime]

as long as poor, weak, and ignorant people exist, so will religion imo

you really think those who believe in something greater than themselves are "poor, weak, and ignorant"?

religion will always exist, because people will always strive to understand the world around them.

[*Steven*]

^You just interpreted it as if he said all rectangles are squares, when in actuality he said all squares are rectangles.

[brooklyneast05]

you really think those who believe in something greater than themselves are "poor, weak, and ignorant"?

religion will always exist, because people will always strive to understand the world around them.

in my opinion there's a good reason that poor and uneducated people tend to be more religious that rich educated ones. in call cases is this true? no of course not.

science will always exist, because people will always strive to understand the world around them. religion in my opinion doesn't explain things, religion doesn't advance. science closes more and more gaps the further we go. god is going to run out of places to hide, but as long as there are scientifically ignorant people, religion will be ok.

"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.”

[kryogenix]

as long as poor, weak, and ignorant people exist, so will religion imo

There's no pride in being able to claim you don't believe in something because there's no evidence in it. A 10 year old can figure out that much. Having true, developed faith in a religion and living your life based on that faith takes much more willpower and discipline. You're full of shit if you think people like... say, Shaolin Monks or Mother Teresa have less discipline than your average internet atheist.

in my opinion there's a good reason that poor and uneducated people tend to be more religious that rich educated ones. in call cases is this true? no of course not.

Could it be that once man has achieved heaven on Earth, he forgets that his real goal should be heaven after death?

science will always exist, because people will always strive to understand the world around them. religion in my opinion doesn't explain things, religion doesn't advance. science closes more and more gaps the further we go. god is going to run out of places to hide, but as long as there are scientifically ignorant people, religion will be ok.

The truth doesn't change, therefore dogma doesn't change. Science is man's attempt to understand the world. Man is imperfect so science is imperfect and needs to be refined.

And you're misunderstanding the relationship between science and religion. There shouldn't be an antagonistic relationship between science and religion. Who is the father of Modern Genetics? Who made the Big Bang Theory?

The Church isn't afraid of science, why is science afraid of the Church?

Formerly, when religion was strong and science weak, men mistook magic for medicine; now, when science is strong and religion weak, men mistake medicine for magic.

-Thomas Szaz

[Simba]

^ Yeah, I actually agree somewhat.

I mean, I've never seen any Christians or Muslims or what have you deny the concept of gravity or any of Newton's Laws or anything. =P

[Stumbleine]

Religion will never die as long as Utah lives.

[brooklyneast05]

There's no pride in being able to claim you don't believe in something because there's no evidence in it. A 10 year old can figure out that much. Having true, developed faith in a religion and living your life based on that faith takes much more willpower and discipline. You're full of shit if you think people like... say, Shaolin Monks or Mother Teresa have less discipline than your average internet atheist.
Could it be that once man has achieved heaven on Earth, he forgets that his real goal should be heaven after death?
The truth doesn't change, therefore dogma doesn't change. Science is man's attempt to understand the world. Man is imperfect so science is imperfect and needs to be refined.
And you're misunderstanding the relationship between science and religion. There shouldn't be an antagonistic relationship between science and religion. Who is the father of Modern Genetics? Who made the Big Bang Theory?
The Church isn't afraid of science, why is science afraid of the Church?
Formerly, when religion was strong and science weak, men mistook magic for medicine; now, when science is strong and religion weak, men mistake medicine for magic.
-Thomas Szaz

i guess it's point of view, i really don't feel that way about any of it. i have some respect for someone who is very disciplined in their religion, but i don't find that to be the case with most people.

i see no reason to believe it. i duno, i can't, it doesn't make any sense to me. i've given it legitimate shots, but i just come up with more questions that have answers that bring even more questions. it just makes less and less sense the further i go.

i pretty much agree with MissHygienic though

[kryogenix]

It's to my understanding that people who are less disciplined in their religion tend to be more fickle and more likely to abandon it. Supposedly like half of the people who attend those megachurches leave within a year or two.

Hmm, this is my non-religious take on it.

My plain answer: No. Few spend the time to examine why they believe what they believe. Most understand what they believe and may study it thoughtfully and not hesitating to declare their opinions. A child's mind is like an empty hole waiting to be filled with information, and whatever is installed first has the best chance of staying permanently.

The majority of Christians are so because they were raised by Christians. The majority of Muslims were raised by Muslims. The majority of Hindus were raised by Hindus. Even those who reject their own religion later on in life hold traces of their religious beliefs because they grew up around it. Whether it be saving your virginity until marriage, wanting to have a family right out of high school, or that abortion is always wrong.

Religion is far too universally popular to fade out. Religion is a powerful tool in which certain beliefs or ideas are no longer about the world at large, but is something woven into people's personality and mind. The beliefs become part of them at a deep, intrinsic level. I think a lot of people find religion to be absolute unlike the rest of the world. Nothing God says can be faulted; every word in the Bible is 100 percent true.

Whatever gets into a mind first, stays the longest. Adults are more than happy to teach children what to think, but rarely teach the child how to think. Critical thinking requires asking a lot of questions. Critical thinking requires gathered evidence to reach a quality conclusion rather than saying something along the lines of, "Because I/God said so."

What got into my mind as a child was that I could piss myself and shit in my diapers. I don't know about you, but I've long since outgrown that.

I'm sick of this notion that all religious people are brainwashed from their birth and never question their faith. My objection isn't with the conclusion that there won't be any more religion, but that the uneducated and gullible masses will be the guardian of old religion throughout time.

When Europe was going to shit in the Dark Ages, what happened? What were the uneducated and gullible masses doing? People thought the world was going to end, forgot about religion and partied like there would be no tomorrow. Who was it that spent that time writing everything down and preserving knowledge? Monks.

When Christ told St. Peter that he would be the foundation of the Church and that hell would never prevail against it, I seriously doubt he meant that the Church would be fine as long as there were enough brainless people to join it.

[MissHygienic]

I think you underestimate the power of parental influence. Pissing and shitting in your diapers is drastically different than growing up with a specific set of values, and in this case, religious values. This isn't about the sacredness and discipline of religion, or the consequences of religion in our history. This is about why religion will never die out.

I was not saying that religious people are weak or ignorant because one person's lies might be another person's truth. I was acknowledging the fact that from a very early age, people gather and absorb information from all different sources, and they naturally have to make something out of the information they get. What do you make of indoctrinations? Most likely, it will be from their parents, religious or not, and eventually that information holds much truth and value to them whether you like it or not. Religion is a specific set of philosophies and doctrines that are often taught to young children as infallibly correct. This trend will never die.

Religious zealots have strong and committed beliefs, so they are likely to pass it on to their children. Especially children who have no mental defenses to the pressures that are put on them to believe a certain set of values. There are some dangers in this, but not as much danger as parents who refuse to teach their child any belief or moral code, because they might think a child will simply evolve into the perfect being under God.

Each religion emphasizes a different set of values, and as long as these values exist within society, so will religion. I didn't say all, but many people don't question their values. They might question and get somewhere or they may never get anywhere. In general, people make the best decisions they can with the information that they have available to them, whether it's to defy or support religion.

[kryogenix]

I think you underestimate the power of parental influence. Pissing and shitting in your diapers is drastically different than growing up with a specific set of values, and in this case, religious values. This isn't about the sacredness and discipline of religion, or the consequences of religion in our history. This is about why religion will never die out.

I was not saying that religious people are weak or ignorant because one person's lies might be another person's truth. I was acknowledging the fact that from a very early age, people gather and absorb information from all different sources, and they naturally have to make something out of the information they get. What do you make of indoctrinations? Most likely, it will be from their parents, religious or not, and eventually that information holds much truth and value to them whether you like it or not. Religion is a specific set of philosophies and doctrines that are often taught to young children as infallibly correct. This trend will never die.

Religious zealots have strong and committed beliefs, so they are likely to pass it on to their children. Especially children who have no mental defenses to the pressures that are put on them to believe a certain set of values. There are some dangers in this, but not as much danger as parents who refuse to teach their child any belief or moral code, because they might think a child will simply evolve into the perfect being under God.

Each religion emphasizes a different set of values, and as long as these values exist within society, so will religion. I didn't say all, but many people don't question their values. They might question and get somewhere or they may never get anywhere. In general, people make the best decisions they can with the information that they have available to them, whether it's to defy or support religion.

I'm not denying the effect parents have on their children. What you're denying is people's ability to change that.

You're around your parents how many hours a day? And how many hours are you with your peers? 65% of high school students stop attending church after they graduate. How much of that 65% were influenced by their parents to leave their religion?

Go to Europe, where church attendance is very very low. Ask someone who still goes to church over there why they go to church. Chances are, they'll give you a better answer than "because my parents told me so."

When religion is on the decline, it will be those who have challenged and strengthened their faith- not the hopelessly indoctrinated- that will remain faithful.

[synthase]

No, (like others have said), it will not go out BECAUSE people needed someone to blame something on. For example, "GAHH I MUST OF DONE SOMETHING REALLY BAD TO GET THE PLAGUE, CAUSE GOD HAS CURSED ME!!" People still follow the statement, "Science only goes so far"

[xfrodobagginsx]

So, will religion fade out? Maybe organized religion? Ideas? Thoughts?

Since God is real, the answer is no. He has proven Himself to be real and true.

[MissHygienic]

I'm not denying the effect parents have on their children. What you're denying is people's ability to change that.

You're around your parents how many hours a day? And how many hours are you with your peers? 65% of high school students stop attending church after they graduate. How much of that 65% were influenced by their parents to leave their religion?

Go to Europe, where church attendance is very very low. Ask someone who still goes to church over there why they go to church. Chances are, they'll give you a better answer than "because my parents told me so."

When religion is on the decline, it will be those who have challenged and strengthened their faith- not the hopelessly indoctrinated- that will remain faithful.

Well, let me clarify that I am fully cognizant that there are as many lazy atheists as there are theists. Faith will never diminish for people, and moreover, I don't believe religion will ever be on a decline to the point of being non-existent. I haven't met a lot of religious people who can explain to me, coherently, why they practice their beliefs, and not what they practice. And for these people, I don't think they will gather the ability to change that when they have not questioned or critically thought about the, "Why?" aspect.

[*Steven*]

Since God is real, the answer is no. He has proven Himself to be real and true.

That's another debate. I personally don't believe in your god. Why should I? But again, another debate.

[NoSex]

There's no pride in being able to claim you don't believe in something because there's no evidence in it. A 10 year old can figure out that much. Having true, developed faith in a religion and living your life based on that faith takes much more willpower and discipline. You're full of shit if you think people like... say, Shaolin Monks or Mother Teresa have less discipline than your average internet atheist.

Given the amount of people that rather explicitly and loudly believe in something despite an utter lack of evidence, I actually think denying such a behavior and categorizing it as foolish and absurd is something to be proud of. I mean, a lot of different things take all sorts of willpower and discipline - flying those planes into the World Trade Centers and drinking the purple Kool-Aid for example - but that doesn't necessitate that one should be prideful of said dedication and or that others should admire those who hold it. Either way you cut that nasty ass cake, your argument reduces to, "People should be proud of closing their eyes and vehemently refusing to open them! I mean, that takes so much effort and time! Belief in things for which there is no evidence is so cool!"

Shaloin Monks are boring and Mother Teresa is a bitch - seriously.

[Joss-eh-lime]

Since God is real, the answer is no. He has proven Himself to be real and true.

but more and more people are deciding He isn't real.

[LoveToMySilas]

I highly doubt that religion will just vanish after a long period of time. As long as there will be followers of God and the followers who don't believe in God, there is bound to be religion.

[jesusisthebestth...]

I completely agree with Kryogenix.

But I don't believe that religion will fade out.
Religion has been a major part of all societies for so long.
I don't believe something so grounded in life could just simply fade away.

The desire to understand and explain life and its trials helps drive religion. Science simply cannot explain why human life is as it is, why we have good days and bad days, why we're here, why children die, etc., not only for me but for others as well.

[brooklyneast05]

The desire to understand and explain life and its trials helps drive religion. Science simply cannot explain why human life is as it is, why we have good days and bad days, why we're here, why children die, etc., not only for me but for others as well.

religion explains why children die?
i've been trying to figure out for a long time how religion explains children who die in cruel and painful ways.

idk, that's just more stuff i don't get about religion. i don't get someone who needs some grand explanation for why they had a bad day. i have bad days because not all days are gonna be great. that's all there is to it.

religion doesn't give me a good answer for any of those. i don't think religion answers anything at all. i guess for some people it does though. so i agree that as long as some are satisfied with it, it will exist.

[*Steven*]

Science simply cannot explain why human life is as it is, why we have good days and bad days, why we're here, why children die, etc., not only for me but for others as well.

LOL Yes it can.

Children die for many reasons, all explained by science or House M.D.
We're here because we engineered boats and sailed across the ocean and landed here. Then we used different methods and stuff (all explained by science) to build houses and travel.
We have good days and bad days based on events and chemicals in our brains. If I remembered my psychology class I could explain more but I would be making a fool of myself to try to use big words I don't remember :(
Human life is as it is due to evolution (DUN DUN DUNNNNNNNNNNNNNN)

[kryogenix]

Given the amount of people that rather explicitly and loudly believe in something despite an utter lack of evidence, I actually think denying such a behavior and categorizing it as foolish and absurd is something to be proud of. I mean, a lot of different things take all sorts of willpower and discipline - flying those planes into the World Trade Centers and drinking the purple Kool-Aid for example - but that doesn't necessitate that one should be prideful of said dedication and or that others should admire those who hold it. Either way you cut that nasty ass cake, your argument reduces to, "People should be proud of closing their eyes and vehemently refusing to open them! I mean, that takes so much effort and time! Belief in things for which there is no evidence is so cool!"

Shaloin Monks are boring and Mother Teresa is a bitch - seriously.

Stop and think about what you just said. You're comparing prayer and fasting to terrorist acts.

[demolished]

Unless we found out .. another creature were the one who modifed a new species called "human" sended to Earth.

AHAHAHA.

[NoSex]

Stop and think about what you just said. You're comparing prayer and fasting to terrorist acts.

So what? I see a lot more value in Terrorist Acts than I do in fasting, and, in either case, both require a good deal of will and discipline. My point still stands - not to mention, you didn't really address my most poignant criticism - that non-belief is something of discipline and pride (especially given that belief and practice are just held in familiarity, comfortability, and tradition).

[Amaranthus]

^I never understood the concept of fasting, nor blowing yourself up.

[jesusisthebestth...]

religion explains why children die?
i've been trying to figure out for a long time how religion explains children who die in cruel and painful ways.

idk, that's just more stuff i don't get about religion. i don't get someone who needs some grand explanation for why they had a bad day. i have bad days because not all days are gonna be great. that's all there is to it.

religion doesn't give me a good answer for any of those. i don't think religion answers anything at all. i guess for some people it does though. so i agree that as long as some are satisfied with it, it will exist.

I've thought those same things and I have struggled with my religion.

I'm not trying to say that religion explains these things, I'm just saying that for me (maybe I'm just foolish) the belief that there is someone out there (I say in heaven) who is bigger/better/more important than me who relates to me, seeks me out of the crowd, and is there for meditation when my mom/dad/sister/best friend doesn't feel like listening is quite comforting.

LOL Yes it can.

Children die for many reasons, all explained by science or House M.D.
We're here because we engineered boats and sailed across the ocean and landed here. Then we used different methods and stuff (all explained by science) to build houses and travel.
We have good days and bad days based on events and chemicals in our brains. If I remembered my psychology class I could explain more but I would be making a fool of myself to try to use big words I don't remember :(
Human life is as it is due to evolution (DUN DUN DUNNNNNNNNNNNNNN)

Thanks for the explanation, you've cleared this up for me. See, JC, Steven to the rescue =]

[kryogenix]

So what? I see a lot more value in Terrorist Acts than I do in fasting, and, in either case, both require a good deal of will and discipline. My point still stands - not to mention, you didn't really address my most poignant criticism - that non-belief is something of discipline and pride (especially given that belief and practice are just held in familiarity, comfortability, and tradition).

Blowing yourself up is bad because you're killing people, not because of the discipline and will power you need to get yourself to do it.

Non belief is not only wrong, but requires no effort at all.

[*Steven*]

[Call911Quick]

^ that looks photoshopped

[Simba]

I'm pretty sure it's not photoshopped. I've seen it before, if I remember correctly. One of those "most influential photos in history." Heck, I'm pretty sure I used it myself during the whole Viva La Revolucion thing, but someone requested I remove it.


I'm pretty sure that guy was protesting because of social injustices. I don't remember the details.

[*Steven*]

It's not photoshopped. That picture was taken a long time ago. It was a monk who set himself on fire, but showed no emotion or pain while burning.

[bat19]

Of course it will, given time, everything fades out. f**king everything. I stay up and think about this shit during the nights I cannot sleep. That and the lagistics of Time Travel, I've discovered multiple angles at which Time travel could possibly (POSSIBLY) make sense, but not enough to write a full book on the subject or else I would have by now and changed the entire way scientists view the subject.
Think back on the fifties. No one alive today does anything the way they did in the fifties. Thats a bit of an overstatement but its almost true. The way we talk, dress, act, everything. We are becoming a smarter and dumber country at the same time, which really doesnt make that much sense. For instance, I know how to look up lots and lots of porn, and I know how to hide it. But I couldnt tell you how to build a mailbox, let alone a treehouse, when was the last time someone had a f**king treehouse? How about can telephones? DOES ANYONE REMEMBER CAN TELEPHONES!!!! I'm gonna start a topic about that.

Think about Gilgamesh, think about Marduk, think about Yahweh, all these different religious icons have been forgotten (save Yahweh but not everyone thinks its the same god as God). Given time, people will forget all about Jesus. Not true, people will remember him, but the stories of him and the bible will pass into myth, it's already happened with the Old Testament, there is barely a person or sect alive or in practice that still fully believe in the Old Testament, except the Jews but most of them don't believe the stories either.

Jeez, I miss childhood. Treehouses, snowforts, can telephones, tire swings, imagination, all those great things that came before the playstation and N64 ruined everything, they gave birth to the new age of gaming. Who do you know who actually plays outside anymore, except in the mid-west but they're all hicks and rednecks anyway, let them shoot eachother with b.b. guns and throw their cheese at eachother, the f**kers.

[*Steven*]

Sure maybe religious figures will fade out, but I think religion itself is here to stay for a long long time.

[Kontroll]

Sure maybe religious figures will fade out, but I think religion itself is here to stay for a long long time.

Indeed. Religion will never fade out, you douche bag Caterpillar.

[ersatz]

Blowing yourself up is bad because you're killing people, not because of the discipline and will power you need to get yourself to do it.

Non belief is not only wrong, but requires no effort at all.

I don't know, it took a lot of effort for me to actually sit down and think about the concept rather than to just accept what someone told me as a child. Questioning a majority is a bit more difficult than nodding your head and saying, "OK, that sounds like it would make sense."

I agree, though, that terrorist acts and religious practices cannot be equated, because (ideally) one does not affect another person whatsoever, and I could really care less if someone wants to fast or be religious in any way. As long as they don't hurt or harass another person.

[NoSex]

I don't know, it took a lot of effort for me to actually sit down and think about the concept rather than to just accept what someone told me as a child. Questioning a majority is a bit more difficult than nodding your head and saying, "OK, that sounds like it would make sense."

Precisely. I think it takes a lot more consideration, meditation, and time to maturely and intelligently deny something you were told was true all your life. Band wagoning for your entire life must be, at least, sort of easy - I mean, everyone does it, right?

I agree, though, that terrorist acts and religious practices cannot be equated, because (ideally) one does not affect another person whatsoever, and I could really care less if someone wants to fast or be religious in any way. As long as they don't hurt or harass another person.

I was simply trying to point out that discipline and dedication take many different forms. Just because someone is greatly disciplined and has a good deal of will power doesn't mean they should be proud of themselves - they could just as easily be crazy.

See argument A: Mother Teresa is the shit for having the will to pray every night before she went to sleep in her filthy bed.

[Simba]

What if you were born into an atheist family?


We're not really arguing over which beliefs take more discipline and maturity, atheism or theism, are we? You'll always have people who take one or the other seriously, and people who are just posers.

[ersatz]

I don't really care what belief system is forced onto a person. I care about the fact that it was forced. One can be born into a Christian, Buddhist, Sikh, Muslim, Jewish, atheist, whatever family and not have anything forced on them. Personally, when I have children, I'm not even going to introduce them to religion until I can see that they have the mental capacity to handle making such a decision on their own. Obviously they'll hear about it from their friends, and when they ask about it, I will tell them that they don't need to worry about it. Once they're older and I can observe that they understand what's going on, I'll give them some books and they can think about it and make their own decision, whatever that is, because I would have a problem if my child just followed whatever I did because I was their mom. I would be much, much prouder if they came to the same decision on their own, or, better yet, contradicted me and came to a different conclusion. That shows that they're thinking.

[WakingLife]

as long as poor, weak, and ignorant people exist, so will religion imo

Amen!

[jaeman]

Religion will not fade out.