Women's Rights = Divorce Rate, New Debate Topic Options

[Uronacid]

The Debate:

The divorce rate has been on a major rise over the past few decades. Women's rights have escalated throughout the course of the previous century and continue the rise in rise in this one. Humankind is searching for sexual equality, but is "equality" really the answer? Scientifically we excel in different areas. Is there a connection between the divorce rate and women's rights?

[brooklyneast05]

hmmmm, well there's more women in the workforce since things are more equal. since both are going to work all day everyday now, that has an effect on relationships. u're both worn out from being at work all day, stressed, ect. i don't know my full opinion on this yet, i'll wait till more people answer. i think there's a lot of factors that go into the increased divorce rate. i can definitely see this being one though.

[Uronacid]

^Yeah, I'm not afraid to say anything, but I want to think before I reply. I haven't found the right words for what I want to say. It just seemed like a good debate topic. The first original one in a while.

[Tung]

Money is the root of evil.

I'm going to explain in full detail more later, when I hear other people's opinion.

[S-Majere]

Root of all evil

But seriously now, can I blame the feminists?

[Uronacid]

Root of all evil

But seriously now, can I blame the feminists?

I'm thinking about how as we type.

[NoSex]

Correlation does not mean causation.
Since you haven't really developed any sort of meaningful relationship between the two variables I would rather not comment. Altogether though, the premise appears quite absurd.

[misoshiru]

^ I like the phrasing of that answer.


I just read a very interesting rough draft in my History of NYC in the 20th Century seminar today. Her paper was on the development of radical feminism in NYC, and specifically how feminism was shaped in New York. I think that this topic could be argued both ways. But of course, it has to be kept in mind that divorces are a lot more easier to obtain today than they were say even 20 years ago. And say, half of the number of divorces are filed for by women. It could be said that because of women's rights and the argument for women's equality that it has shaped women today to be able to go to court and file for divorce. So, if "equality" between the genders did not exist today, divorce rates may be 1/4 lower or some percentage lower because it would be more difficult for women to obtain a divorce.

[Spirited Away]

The Debate:

The divorce rate has been on a major rise over the past few decades. Women's rights have escalated throughout the course of the previous century and continue the rise in rise in this one. Humankind is searching for sexual equality, but is "equality" really the answer? Scientifically we excel in different areas. Is there a connection between the divorce rate and women's rights?

What about factors such as the increase of two breadwinners in each household or the increase of young people getting married?

I don't think women's rights is a problem by itself. It probably just adds to the equation.

[brooklyneast05]

^ I like the phrasing of that answer.
I just read a very interesting rough draft in my History of NYC in the 20th Century seminar today. Her paper was on the development of radical feminism in NYC, and specifically how feminism was shaped in New York. I think that this topic could be argued both ways. But of course, it has to be kept in mind that divorces are a lot more easier to obtain today than they were say even 20 years ago. And say, half of the number of divorces are filed for by women. It could be said that because of women's rights and the argument for women's equality that it has shaped women today to be able to go to court and file for divorce. So, if "equality" between the genders did not exist today, divorce rates may be 1/4 lower or some percentage lower because it would be more difficult for women to obtain a divorce.

^ yea agreed. i think it may affect it, indirectly

[S-Majere]

Please NoSex; it's midnight over here, I've been up for 19 straight hours and you need to use little words.

Back to the feminist point:

I still think I can blame them. Somehow.

In all seriousness, it's probably a combination of factors. Marriage is a more traditional religious bonding. Equality and, ahem, feminism, have become modern-day buzzwords and so have 'career women' and 'singe mothers'.

A change in lifestyle rather than women's rights?

[Spirited Away]

Well, to play a devil's advocate.

Can't we say that the rise of the "career woman" and the "single mother" is a result of "feminism" empowering more and more women to attend such roles?

[S-Majere]

^ Oh, you clever thing.

I think you could assume that, yes.

[Uronacid]

Well, to play a devil's advocate.

Can't we say that the rise of the "career woman" and the "single mother" is a result of "feminism" empowering more and more women to attend such roles?

I think that it's possible. If women begin to see the "career woman" as a role model I think it will definitely cause problems. They may struggle with the idea of what role they think they are supposed to play and what they actually are playing. This will definitely cause problems. People become stress and irritable when they aren't achieving their "goals". Even if they don't realize that they are their goals.

My mother for example doesn't know how to be anything but a house wife, but her sisters are career women and she's always trying to be one. My mother however cannot be one, and it frustrates her deeply. I believe that she takes it out on everyone else without realizing what her real problem is. She flips out when someone tells her she's not the type to have a job, she goes out and gets a job, and she quits the job within a month. It's pathetic... she was born a house wife. xD

[Spirited Away]

^ Oh, you clever thing.
I think you could assume that, yes.

I think that it's possible. If women begin to see the "career woman" as a role model I think it will definitely cause problems. They may struggle with the idea of what role they think they are supposed to play and what they actually are playing. This will definitely cause problems. People become stress and irritable when they aren't achieving their "goals". Even if they don't realize that they are their goals.

My mother for example doesn't know how to be anything but a house wife, but her sisters are career women and she's always trying to be one. My mother however cannot be one, and it frustrates her deeply. I believe that she takes it out on everyone else without realizing what her real problem is. She flips out when someone tells her she's not the type to have a job, she goes out and gets a job, and she quits the job within a month. It's pathetic... she was born a house wife. xD

In the end, it's still only one factor leading to and from another factor that = the divorce rate. But even though arguing that women's rights is the root of the problem is a stretch, considering that feminism heavily influenced our current social structure, it definitely is a big part of this. I like to see how people will debate because there are so many ways to counter either opposition. If anyone's up to it, that is.

And at least your mom is good at one of the two, whereas I'm not sure I can do either. Haha. I can't really cook, damn it. I can't even bake cookies right.

This post has been edited by Spirited Away: Dec 4 2007, 10:06 PM

[Uronacid]

In the end, it's still only one factor leading to and from another factor that = the divorce rate. But even though arguing that women's rights is the root of the problem is a stretch, considering that feminism heavily influenced our current social structure, it definitely is a big part of this. I like to see how people will debate because there are so many ways to counter either opposition. If anyone's up to it, that is.

And at least your mom is good at one of the two, whereas I'm not sure I can do either. Haha. I can't really cook, damn it. I can't even bake cookies right.

I also think that feminism heavily influenced the divorce rate, but I can't quite find the right angle to support my point of view so I haven't really said a lot about it. I think it's ironic how Nate jumps in and apposes the idea, yet all the women after him took the side to support the idea that feminism heavily influenced the divorce rate.

Oh my God, my mother is great at cooking, interior design, sewing, and painting. She also loves children, but yet she still seems to fight herself over not having a job.

[MissFits]

I think I am one of those girls that is meant to be a housewife. When John gets home from work it really pleases me to have dinner ready and the house tidied. I get a feeling of satisfaction from doing things at my pace in my home that a job could never give me.
I know I have to work though, and that makes me sad.

I don't know how I feel about the correlation between the two. I had never really thought about it before. I will think it over and deduce an opinion.

[Insurmountable]

^I agree.

Also I can't really connect how women's rights and the divorce rate is connected..I think their just two individual cases. I think if couples discussed more about women's rights and came to an agreement then that would lower the divorce rate...if that was the factor.

[Uronacid]

^I agree.

Also I can't really connect how women's rights and the divorce rate is connected..I think their just two individual cases. I think if couples discussed more about women's rights and came to an agreement then that would lower the divorce rate...if that was the factor.

I think I am one of those girls that is meant to be a housewife. When John gets home from work it really pleases me to have dinner ready and the house tidied. I get a feeling of satisfaction from doing things at my pace in my home that a job could never give me.
I know I have to work though, and that makes me sad.

I don't know how I feel about the correlation between the two. I had never really thought about it before. I will think it over and deduce an opinion.

It's possible you two never thought about this because you never questioned whether your rights were at stake or not. Before you think about something, you have to have a reason to do it. You enjoy doing what you do. There is no reason for you to think about it. You're both happy with that idea.

Many women rebel against the idea of being a "house wife" as if it's something negative. I feel as if housewives have lost a lot of respect in the past couple of decades. However, I have a lot of respect for someone who gets things like that done because I have such a hard time doing them.

Quite frankly I just don't feel like I'm good at it. I feel inadequate when I do those things. I feel the same way a large percentage of women feel when installing a video card on their home computer or changing the oil in your car. It's not out of reach. You can do it, but you just don't feel confident when you're doing it. I personally feel like I'm lost or something. Like I'm not doing it right.

[*Steven*]

Life's a bitch, then you marry one.

[jesusisthebestth...]

Well, to play a devil's advocate.

Can't we say that the rise of the "career woman" and the "single mother" is a result of "feminism" empowering more and more women to attend such roles?

The rise of the "single mother" is not a result of feminism. The feminism movement is near its death. The number of feminist single moms is probably not that high.

[brooklyneast05]

^what's ur opinion on what the rise of the "single mother" is caused by?

[karmakiller]

Correlation does not mean causation.

I agree.


There's lots of people who don't go out and do something just because they've gained that right. It might be a factor, but there are deffinately bigger factors.

[MissFits]

Quite frankly I just don't feel like I'm good at it. I feel inadequate when I do those things. I feel the same way a large percentage of women feel when installing a video card on their home computer or changing the oil in your car. It's not out of reach. You can do it, but you just don't feel confident when you're doing it. I personally feel like I'm lost or something. Like I'm not doing it right.

That's almost EXACTLY how John described his feelings about housework to me. I also change the oil and fix the computers, though.

My mom once worked at a place where she made a dollar less an hour than a man that had been hired after her doing the same thing. Women were treated terribly there, even though they were the most efficient workers. I know that there are injustices like that out there, but I don't see how that strains a relationship as long as women leave their work related stress at the door.

[brooklyneast05]

yeah but how often can someone leave their work related stress at the door?

[MissFits]

My mom did everyday.
I really make an effort to and I usually do a pretty good job.

[brooklyneast05]

i guess it depends on the people, and probably the job too. when something is stressing me out, i have a hard time leaving it anywhere

[MissFits]

Working at in a pharmacy can get really stressful when you get a lot of people coming in at once and you have to stay over your shift. It sucks, and it used to make me so mad. I guess at work I am like a different person. I am not there because I like it, I am there to make money. When I leave work I am so happy to be away from there that it melts away any bad mood. It's like a light switch for me, I am off at work and on at home.

If that makes any sense at all.

[Uronacid]

yeah but how often can someone leave their work related stress at the door?

Ugh... seriously... you can't just bottle it all up. Well, I have to carry my job home. I'm on call if they decide to call me.

[demolished]

Housewife with children has my total respect.

We need women to stand at home to watch the kids and monitor the house. =/

[jesusisthebestth...]

^what's ur opinion on what the rise of the "single mother" is caused by?

there are several reasons, most caused by american culture - which has so many outside forces influencing it. i think that there are more single moms now than ever because there is less emphasis on the importance of marriage...i dont know if there are statistics on this or anything, but most of the young women i know are running away from marriage, but not child bearing or child rearing.

[Kontroll]

Correlation does not mean causation.
Since you haven't really developed any sort of meaningful relationship between the two variables I would rather not comment. Altogether though, the premise appears quite absurd.

Nate, grow up. This is why we're having this discussion. To come down to a logical conclusion. Not for holier than thou assholes on their pedistals mocking people for no reason at all but to publically humiliate them. On the internet, I should add. Be real, dude. Give us a real f**king answer instead of your text book rhetoric. We're real people here, not a f**king college classroom. You don't have to put on an act.

[Spirited Away]

The rise of the "single mother" is not a result of feminism. The feminism movement is near its death. The number of feminist single moms is probably not that high.

Really? So you're saying that any movement that dies out eventually don't make any impact while at its height? So, something like impressionism faded out and gave way to post-impressionism means impressionism never inspired any other artists? I hope that's not what you're telling me, but I could be wrong.

To your understanding, what impact did feminism have on women? Or if you don't think it did anything, please explain why. Some evidence would be nice.

[Kontroll]

Nate's a pussy. Pussy, pussy, pussy!

I whole-heartedly agree with Josh.

[jesusisthebestth...]

Really? So you're saying that any movement that dies out eventually don't make any impact while at its height? So, something like impressionism faded out and gave way to post-impressionism means impressionism never inspired any other artists? I hope that's not what you're telling me, but I could be wrong.

To your understanding, what impact did feminism have on women? Or if you don't think it did anything, please explain why. Some evidence would be nice.

1. i said the feminist movement has had no affect on the increase in the number of single moms in america's present day society. i refuse to believe that the feminist movement is the reason why everywhere i turn there's another pregnant chick without a ring on her finger.

2. was impressionism a movement? a movement that changed the lives of all artists just as the feminist movement changed the lives of all women, resutlting in collective benefits for women all over the country? i dont understand why you're making a connection between impressionism in art and the feminist movement in life.

[brooklyneast05]

analogy

makes sense to me

[jesusisthebestth...]

^^^

i just dont like it when people compare art and life...but thats just my thing. it's not that the comparisons are futile and not that there is no clear correlation at times between the two ideas, i just prefer correlations between two real life situations...art is not real life to me, but again just personal opinion, it's another debate topic for a later time

[brooklyneast05]

it's comparing a movement to a movement though.
impressionism is real, the feminist movement is real.
i do not understand, but anyway, u don't think the feminist movement could have any affect whatsoever?

[deplorable]

feminist in the forum.

"Women do not have to sacrifice personhood if they are mothers. They do not have to sacrifice motherhood/marriage in order to be persons. Liberation was meant to expand women's opportunities, not to limit them. The self-esteem that has been found in new pursuits can also be found in mothering."

~Elain Heffner

enough said

[brooklyneast05]

it's not enough said, it's a quote, and this is a debate. how does that relate or not relate to divorce rate? what do YOU think?

[jesusisthebestth...]

it's comparing a movement to a movement though.
impressionism is real, the feminist movement is real.
i do not understand, but anyway, u don't think the feminist movement could have any affect whatsoever?

yea, though they both are movements they are movements of different types, it's like comparing WWI to the War in Iraq just because they are wars doesnt mean they will have the same affect on some topic, i cant think right now lol. you get it? but, anyway, to answer your question, i think the feminist movement intended in no way to limit the likelihood of socio-economic prosperity among women, i believe that being a single mother greatly damages a woman's likelihood of being socially and economically prosperous. therefore, i don't see the comparison...but we've totally re-vamped the debate topic, we're supposed to be comparing women's rights and divorce rates lol.

[Spirited Away]

1. i said the feminist movement has had no affect on the increase in the number of single moms in america's present day society. i refuse to believe that the feminist movement is the reason why everywhere i turn there's another pregnant chick without a ring on her finger.

2. was impressionism a movement? a movement that changed the lives of all artists just as the feminist movement changed the lives of all women, resutlting in collective benefits for women all over the country? i dont understand why you're making a connection between impressionism in art and the feminist movement in life.

1. You make it sound like being a single mom is a bad thing calling them "chicks" without rings on their fingers. Single moms generally don't fit that kind of degrading description. That's another story.

Feminism led to many things, but most important of all (imho): the recognition of "woman". Sojourner said it best: "If the first woman God ever made was strong enough to turn the world upside down all alone, these women together ought to be able to turn it back , and get it right side up again! And now they is asking to do it, the men better let them." This recognition is followed by women on jury duty, woman suffrage, and laws protecting women rights were established.

Fact: in 1900, two-thirds of divorce cases are initiated by the wife; a century earlier, most women lacked the right to sue and were hopelessly locked into bad marriages. (I practically copied and pasted this here from a source. You're more than welcome to research this for yourself)

Mel Krantzler wrote: "To say goodbye is to say hello ... hello to a new life - to a new, freer, more self-assured you. Hello to new ways of looking at the world and of relating to people. Your divorce can turn out to be the very best thing that ever happened to you."

What more do you need to understand that though feminism may not be the sole reason for the increase of single mom's or divorces, but it was a trigger for many societal changes we've seen so far.

2. Are you seriously asking me why made that analogy? You said feminism was a dying movement, not strong enough to make any impact on anything. So I used impressionism as an example of a movement that was thought to be useless and "avant-garde" and also died out quite quickly. However, it made such a strong impact that made critics eat their words.

I'm not making an example between art and life. The context is comparing a movement to a movement. I thought that was clear.

analogy

makes sense to me

Thanks. At least that made sense to someone else and not just me.

^^^

i just dont like it when people compare art and life...but thats just my thing. it's not that the comparisons are futile and not that there is no clear correlation at times between the two ideas, i just prefer correlations between two real life situations...art is not real life to me, but again just personal opinion, it's another debate topic for a later time

Again, not "art and life", but we're comparing two movements. Read within context and you'll understand the analogy.

yea, though they both are movements they are movements of different types, it's like comparing WWI to the War in Iraq just because they are wars doesnt mean they will have the same affect on some topic, i cant think right now lol. you get it? but, anyway, to answer your question, i think the feminist movement intended in no way to limit the likelihood of socio-economic prosperity among women, i believe that being a single mother greatly damages a woman's likelihood of being socially and economically prosperous. therefore, i don't see the comparison...but we've totally re-vamped the debate topic, we're supposed to be comparing women's rights and divorce rates lol.

Um, do you understand what the Impressionism movement was about? I'm not here to teach art history so I won't go into details, but it sounds like you don't see the correlation because you don't understand what the Impressionism movement what went on during that time. However, that itself is unimportant as I'm not here to compare the two in that way. The point was making comparision between two "dying movements" making huge impact in history, as oppose to you implying that a dying movement does not make any impact. Are we savvy?

Feminism help bring about change in how society perceive family. No one is saying that feminism affect the rise of single moms directly, I don't see why you seem to think that, but I hope it's clear now. However, I am saying that feminism brought about changes in policy, family structure...etc., enough to where I can rightly say that it must have indirectly brought on the effects that we're discussing.

[*CowerPointyObjects*]

It makes sense for the divorce rate to rise as women gain more freedoms, but I don't think that makes equality between the sexes wrong; it might suggest the opposite. There's no real reason to value marriage over everything else (leaving out the tangent about gay marriage I'm tempted to make); perhaps it's merely an indication that a new system is needed.

[MissHygienic]

Housewife with children has my total respect.

We need women to stand at home to watch the kids and monitor the house. =/

Disregarding personal choice, I see no reason why you are saying that there should be more women subjected to a life confined in the parameters of their property and a little mini-clone of themselves. Time and time again, we hear women bitching about lower wages because of their sex; they are not being treated equally; they are the lesser of man, yet women end up being housewives, effectively pulling themselves out of the work force, and to watch the kids and monitor the house. This is very clearly gender role separation?

There are many exceptions, and life isn't about fame or wealth, but this world could use more people working, instead of having them at home and thinking about reproducing over and over. This world is already crowded, and if there's one term I can put on housewives, it'd be "heavy consumer." What do they give back to the world? Especially to the women who have kids right after high school. I can't imagine these girls are experienced enough to maximize productivity.

I could see how "women's rights," as in women who go out and pursue a life other than being a housewife, is in correlation with divorce rate because they want equality, and by all means, I support it. I believe it's only a minor factor in divorce rates, however. In a broader aspect, it's mostly girls and boys who end up with the wrong people and learning later on that they made mistakes. Fun.

[jesusisthebestth...]

1. You make it sound like being a single mom is a bad thing calling them "chicks" without rings on their fingers. Single moms generally don't fit that kind of degrading description. That's another story.

take it however you'd like...i really don't care what connotation you see in the term chick. my feeling is simply that single moms have it harder than women without children and women who are in relationships with the father of their children and i don't think that is a change the feminist movement intended to bring about.

Feminism help bring about change in how society perceive family. No one is saying that feminism affect the rise of single moms directly, I don't see why you seem to think that, but I hope it's clear now. However, I am saying that feminism brought about changes in policy, family structure...etc., enough to where I can rightly say that it must have indirectly brought on the effects that we're discussing.

i said nothing about the feminist movement's affect on single moms directly or indirectly...i said it had no affect at all. there's the difference. i don't see how women receiving freedoms has led to conditions under which single mothers live these days and the increase in the number of divorces.

[Spirited Away]

1. take it however you'd like...i really don't care what connotation you see in the term chick. my feeling is simply that single moms have it harder than women without children and women who are in relationships with the father of their children and i don't think that is a change the feminist movement intended to bring about.

Did you enjoy ignoring the argument and facts presented? No matter intentions, one event can cause unintentional effects whether or not it wanted them. For example, a driver wanting to get to one destination never intented to collide with another driver or to cause additional traffic by being on the road, but he does anyway. Arguing for "intention" is moot at this point.


2. i said nothing about the feminist movement's affect on single moms directly or indirectly...i said it had no affect at all. there's the difference. i don't see how women receiving freedoms has led to conditions under which single mothers live these days and the increase in the number of divorces.

Where are your stats that feminist movement have no effect on the rise of single mothers? It's nice that you pointed out a difference, but it'll be nicer and more valid with statistics or some kind of evidence to prove your point.

Feminism isn't just about women's freedom. It's about empowering women to make choices for themselves (and not for the men "ruling" them) and so many others. EMPOWERING women comes before receiving women rights, as you may have noticed. The history of the women rights movement is hand in hand with feminism.

Again, it doesn't matter what you think or what you believe, please provide us with statistics or some source to back up your statements. If not, please don't discredit other views (that has some stats) based on your sole opinion. In a religious debate you might be able to get away with it, but facts can be accounted for in this type of discussion.

Disregarding personal choice, I see no reason why you are saying that there should be more women subjected to a life confined in the parameters of their property and a little mini-clone of themselves. Time and time again, we hear women bitching about lower wages because of their sex; they are not being treated equally; they are the lesser of man, yet women end up being housewives, effectively pulling themselves out of the work force, and to watch the kids and monitor the house. This is very clearly gender role separation?

There are many exceptions, and life isn't about fame or wealth, but this world could use more people working, instead of having them at home and thinking about reproducing over and over. This world is already crowded, and if there's one term I can put on housewives, it'd be "heavy consumer." What do they give back to the world? Especially to the women who have kids right after high school. I can't imagine these girls are experienced enough to maximize productivity.

I could see how "women's rights," as in women who go out and pursue a life other than being a housewife, is in correlation with divorce rate because they want equality, and by all means, I support it. I believe it's only a minor factor in divorce rates, however. In a broader aspect, it's mostly girls and boys who end up with the wrong people and learning later on that they made mistakes. Fun.

Nicely put.

[sheridan_whitesi...]

What is this workplace you are on about? I do believe, I, as a husband, have furnished you a place already, equipped with the finest granite and stainless steel. Now, to your place, and do what the Almighty Lord Jesus put you on earth to do. I feel rumblings in my stomach, for desserts of a round and crusty nature.

[demolished]

Disregarding personal choice, I see no reason why you are saying that there should be more women subjected to a life confined in the parameters of their property and a little mini-clone of themselves. Time and time again, we hear women bitching about lower wages because of their sex; they are not being treated equally; they are the lesser of man, yet women end up being housewives, effectively pulling themselves out of the work force, and to watch the kids and monitor the house. This is very clearly gender role separation?

I DO respect women as much as men in terms of power and wealth. There's no excuse for salaries reductions. Yes, women do bitch because they want to work. What's wrong with women being housewives ... when dad's at work ALREADY supporting the family?

My mom is a housewife, and I totally love her. She works hard to settle things down in a family of 7 members. She serves an inspiration role model for us, siblings. We were poor, not wealthy, and 1st generation of Asian American. Shouldn't mom be concern about their children who's growing up, learning, and becoming a young adult WHILE dad's at work SUPPORTING the family? Parents are responsible for their children. My mom does her job very well. My family is walking with big step to success, the American Dream, but we're not rich but we're trying to break through the social class. All my siblings graduated from school. my sister major in business, other one major in teaching & passionate about children, brother major in criminology but working as business claim adjustor, and brother major in business. if mom wasn't there for us, not being caution about us, not nagging the freak out of us, not annoying us as hell even though we hated her like a mother flippin bitch sometimes, not giving more-than enough attention and concern about us, we probably wouldn't be doing fine.


This is my reasons, my core value, argumentation of heart, and emotional appeals for stating my post earlier.

There are many exceptions, and life isn't about fame or wealth, but this world could use more people working, instead of having them at home and thinking about reproducing over and over. This world is already crowded, and if there's one term I can put on housewives, it'd be "heavy consumer." What do they give back to the world? Especially to the women who have kids right after high school. I can't imagine these girls are experienced enough to maximize productivity.

"Thinking about reproducing over and over" .... What the heck are you thinking? We ARE giving back to the world by teaching our children and leading them to better life than they did.



Think about what mother can do for the children to achieve and reach their potential? Children, now, are the future starting from today. And what happen to them reflect the society.

I could see how "women's rights," as in women who go out and pursue a life other than being a housewife, is in correlation with divorce rate because they want equality, and by all means, I support it. I believe it's only a minor factor in divorce rates, however. In a broader aspect, it's mostly girls and boys who end up with the wrong people and learning later on that they made mistakes. Fun.

I don't care if women go out to work OR MEN and not watch the dam children. It's their choice and what they want best for themselves or everyone.


and please ... think of this as a friendly talk. i'm not really debating

[MissHygienic]

I DO respect women as much as men in terms of power and wealth. There's no excuse for salaries reductions. Yes, women do bitch because they want to work. What's wrong with women being housewives ... when dad's at work ALREADY supporting the family?

My mom is a housewife, and I totally love her. She works hard to settle things down in a family of 7 members. She serves an inspiration role model for us, siblings. We were poor, not wealthy, and 1st generation of Asian American. Shouldn't mom be concern about their children who's growing up, learning, and becoming a young adult WHILE dad's at work SUPPORTING the family? Parents are responsible for their children. My mom does her job very well. My family is walking with big step to success, the American Dream, but we're not rich but we're trying to break through the social class. All my siblings graduated from school. my sister major in business, other one major in teaching & passionate about children, brother major in criminology but working as business claim adjustor, and brother major in business. if mom wasn't there for us, not being caution about us, not nagging the freak out of us, not annoying us as hell even though we hated her like a mother flippin bitch sometimes, not giving more-than enough attention and concern about us, we probably wouldn't be doing fine.
This is my reasons, my core value, argumentation of heart, and emotional appeals for stating my post earlier.

"Thinking about reproducing over and over" .... What the heck are you thinking? We ARE giving back to the world by teaching our children and leading them to better life than they did.

Think about what mother can do for the children to achieve and reach their potential? Children, now, are the future starting from today. And what happen to them reflect the society.
I don't care if women go out to work OR MEN and not watch the dam children. It's their choice and what they want best for themselves or everyone.

and please ... think of this as a friendly talk. i'm not really debating

Not to pull you away from your sweet reverie, here, but did you even take the time to analyze the points I made in my post? I did not say there was something wrong with women choosing to be housewives. I said that I did not understand why in God's name you would suggest that we need more women to "watch the kids and monitor the house." These were your words. I also did not really care to hear your life story, as it had nothing to do with the topic, anyway.

Since you had to share it, I have a few speculations of my own to invalidate your story. One of them being that you come from an Asian-American background, and I know that a lot of traditional Asian mothers feel as if they need to pressure their children to be the best. In your own words, you said that she nagged the hell out of you, because she was vicariously living through her children. Was she actually supporting you, or was she pushing you and your siblings to be what she never was? Go ahead and deny everything here, though, they're just some doubts I had.

One thing you cannot deny is that children do look up to their mothers as role models. Now, as for the mothers right out of high school who have a sugar-daddy, the mother's life decisions can be heavily influential to the child. "I don't have to do a lot; I will let my husband do everything and raise kids in hopes of them being mildly more useful than I was." Do you see the cycle here? In many cases, women will conceive children who will grow up to be housewives with little to no experience, and they will produce more kids who will grow up to be nothing but consumers in this world. It is not about majoring in business. You can major in any-f**king-thing you want, and it still might not get you anywhere.

What is this about "potential" and "future?" You're quite the optimistic one, aren't you? There is no logic in shoving the labor and "potential for success" onto your kids, if you are in no way successful yourself because it likely won't work out. Do you pay attention to global issues? Recycling, sewage issues, schools with less and less math teachers, overpopulation, homelessness. And you think it's a smarter idea to hope for the best that the future generation will take care of it. Why not promote the housewife lifestyle and let the men take care of things? No worries, even though women do make up more than 50 percent of the population. And there should be more housewives.

[demolished]

Not to pull you away from your sweet reverie, here, but did you even take the time to analyze the points I made in my post? I did not say there was something wrong with women choosing to be housewives. I said that I did not understand why in God's name you would suggest that we need more women to "watch the kids and monitor the house." These were your words. I also did not really care to hear your life story, as it had nothing to do with the topic, anyway.

One thing you cannot deny is that children do look up to their mothers as role models. Now, as for the mothers right out of high school who have a sugar-daddy, the mother's life decisions can be heavily influential to the child. "I don't have to do a lot; I will let my husband do everything and raise kids in hopes of them being mildly more useful than I was." Do you see the cycle here? In many cases, women will conceive children who will grow up to be housewives with little to no experience, and they will produce more kids who will grow up to be nothing but consumers in this world. It is not about majoring in business. You can major in any-f**king-thing you want, and it still might not get you anywhere.

My "life story" was the reason for "watch the kids and monitor the house". Earlier I stated this, "This is my reasons, my core value, argumentation of heart, and emotional appeals for stating my post earlier." i already explained the reasons why. Again, i also say, "I'm not really debating". I'm answering you, actually.

Of course you didn't say there was something wrong with women being housewives. i WAS TOTALLY AWARE OF THAT.


You made a claim that you cannot deny that children do look up to their mother as role model ... but i can deny your claim... i cannot deny my own mother. I say she serves as an inspirational role model for us, not mom serve as a role model for every child.

As for the mom with sugar-daddy, it's her fault for making a horrible decision. I quoted this earlier

I don't care if women go out to work OR MEN and not watch the dam children. It's their choice and what they want best for themselves or everyone.

What is this about "potential" and "future?" You're quite the optimistic one, aren't you? There is no logic in shoving the labor and "potential for success" onto your kids, if you are in no way successful yourself because it likely won't work out. Do you pay attention to global issues? Recycling, sewage issues, schools with less and less math teachers, overpopulation, homelessness. And you think it's a smarter idea to hope for the best that the future generation will take care of it. Why not promote the housewife lifestyle and let the men take care of things? No worries, even though women do make up more than 50 percent of the population. And there should be more housewives.

Um. shut the f**k up? Are you picking on me?

What are your solutions to the problem? We do NEED women to stay at home, but NOT ALL OF THEM! Look and read carefully. We know women traditionally stay at home watching the children. Again, it's their choice and what they want best for themselves or everyone.

and you're a f**king bitch. "There is no logic in shoving the labor and "potential for success" onto your kids, if you are in no way successful yourself because it likely won't work out.". My mom had no free education, is poor, and ... you dare to diss her? You cannot assume unsucessful mother makes unsucessful children, f**king dick shit.

[brooklyneast05]

Um. shut the f**k up? Are you picking on me?
What are your solutions to the problem? We do NEED women to stay at home, but NOT ALL OF THEM! Look and read carefully. We know women traditionally stay at home watching the children. Again, it's their choice and what they want best for themselves or everyone.
and you're a f**king bitch. "There is no logic in shoving the labor and "potential for success" onto your kids, if you are in no way successful yourself because it likely won't work out.". My mom had no free education, is poor, and ... you dare to diss her? You cannot assume unsucessful mother makes unsucessful children, f**king dick shit.

calm down, she isn't a f**king bitch. u're quite the sensitive one.

u said we NEED women to stay at home, but NOT ALL OF THEM! why do we need them to stay at home? i don't think we do, and i still don't think u have answered why we need them to?

I said that I did not understand why in God's name you would suggest that we need more women to "watch the kids and monitor the house."

that's what she was getting at...and in ur whole reply u ignored it.


quit telling us touching little tales about ur own mother and get to the point already. i'm sure MissHygienic and myself could tell some inspirational ones about our own, BUT THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE QUESTIONS AT HAND. are u going to answer her or not?

[demolished]

Men are not capable of doing home work edit.i'm talking about one with children

Stay-at-home mom is consider a courageous career that should be recognized. It no easy task and isn't better than working women ... but I do understand that there are discriminations against women, but I still do believe there should be a balance of women's lifestyle through working at home or job.

It's better for the mother stay home, if it's possible, because women in general are better nurturers. There are many things that men and women are capable of doing, men in general aren't one of those people who want to work as "house husband". Yes, we're different in what we do and think, but there are things that women are generally better at, and some other things that men are generally better at.

Yes, not all women can work at home, but there are many educated and talented women with Initiate for loving, caring, and tending their children is rewarding. a women being a mom, slowly watching their children maturing, being educated, saying thoughtful comments, connected, and knowing that their kids will come back to take of them at old age.

It's true that you can leave children up to someone else and work. If you're happy and things are going great, then no problem!

Mom is one of the hardest jobs. While children are awake, mom need to nurture, support, train, and educated these future adults. Again, children now, are the reflection of the society. Being the mom is stressful, and no matter how tired, devastated, and crazy toward their children, they still do their job. That's not the only thing; they must do some clean-up, dusting, and arranging the home so it will look decently. Without mom, house would look like dusty crap and would probably be taken for granted. the role of the mother is more than just doing things, it's also about proper timing whether the wife need to do certain things such as cooking and preparing the meals to meet everyone's expectation and their nutrient needs for everyone including their husband. Being a mom is a life-style, it's a duty of 24/7. Other working adults take it for granted.

Without mom to stay at home, I wonder what things would be like. How would the children turn out to be? How much does mom missed out the value, experiences, and opportunity to see their own children becoming an adult ... and will take care of them... or maybe not. It's not like ... mom will never have a time off for their kids, right? There are disadvantages and advantages of everything.



I'm not against feminism, btw.
----------------------------------------------------------------------


Does feminism affect women in today's society? Absolutely. Feminism is a period when women want to pursuit their core value and to break away from the traditional role of womanhood. Does their new role affect their marriage? That's possible! Since both of them are working on their own, devoted to their job, making money, and.... can slowly drift away. When one work very hard, always focusing, and in task, they think lesser about their wife. Of course, I could be wrong.

[brooklyneast05]

I'm not against feminism, btw.

no shit? i'd beg to differ

Men are not capable of doing home work

Without mom to stay at home, I wonder what things would be like. How would the children turn out to be? How much does mom missed out the value, experiences, and opportunity to see their own children becoming an adult ... and will take care of them... or maybe not. It's not like ... mom will never have a time off for their kids, right? There are disadvantages and advantages of everything.

i guess i better share my life story now

i still don't know what u are rambling on about. men are perfectly capable of doing housework, AND SHOULD DO IT. i'm a man. i buy my own groceries, i prepare my own meals, i wash my own clothes, iron my own clothes, dust my own house, vacuum my own floors, wash my own dishes, the list goes on and on. i'm a man who is able to do all these things. granted, i don't have a wife and kids, but i assure u that when i do, i'll continue to do these things. not force my wife to be some kind of house slave. my mother and father both worked, and all three children have turned out fine. my mom and dad always split up the housework, cooking, shopping, ect. my mom got plenty of experience being a mother, while still working a job. she loves being a mom, and loves her job. i still don't see why women NEED to be at home. do u get that question? why do they NEED to. women today have careers and raise good kids, i see no sign that women NEED to stay home.

edit:
also, i think housewives are becoming less and less realistic. a good amount, if not a majority, of families can't even afford to have only one working parent.

[MissHygienic]

Fist,

I was not insulting your mom. What I said last was that you come from an Asian-American background. I know that a lot of Asians are hard-workers and try to be the best they can. I clarified this? I asked you questions to invalidate it because your case was an exception to mine. I wasn't debating or picking on you. I was applying my stance on your point of view. That we apparently need women to stay at home all of the time.

If you want personal stories, here, I was not raised by mom. My mom was a housewife, and she was a poor one, at that. She taught me how to speak, how to color, and that's about it. Nothing else. She could not teach me math, and she wasn't interested in reading books. Without her help in anything in my life, I've aced subjects across the board in school and I also went to college. I've been fine without her. So, I can tell you that, no, there is no need for mothers to stay at home and monitor the house. Who says all housewives love their job, anyway? Moreover, who says that they will all be like your mother?

Perhaps you failed to see my point in a broader aspect. Your mom isn't the only housewife in this world. I know many housewives. My boyfriend knows a lot of housewives in his state, as well, and they are all lower-class, fat white trash who raise lower-class, fat white trash children. Would you prefer the reflection of America to be white trash? To pork out on Twinkies and Ding-Dongs and spend their time learning how to use TiVo?

Do you get my point now? Being a housewife with children is a "monkey see, monkey do" thing. Your mom was not once "unsuccessful." She taught you to be something different. Those types of housewives? The, "I don't care what you do, be what you want" housewives? Their kids will be nothing in this world. There is no argument. These kids will never learn perseverance or hard-work or the importance of education and moving forward.

Again, I had stated in my very first post, "disregarding personal choice." I do not give two shits about what women choose to do with their lives. You spoke of housewives as if it's something necessary, and I wanted to ask you why. However, glad to know that I'm a f**king dick shit. I get it from my mom :).

Brooklyneast,

I agree with you there. At least you understand my point. My dad was much better at house work than my mom. Single dads are actually sometimes much better than single moms because they're more protective whereas the mom is more likely to be the, "Honey, I support you in anything, even drugs and sex" deal.

[MissFits]

I don't think women need to stay home, and it's a personal choice. I know being a housewife would please me immensely. There is a career I am going to pursue, but my children and husband will always come first.

I think I see what fist was trying to say (correct me if I am wrong). Kids need someone in their life to discipline the f**k out of them. People need to start spanking their kids again. It happened more when more women stayed at home and watched their children like hawks. If a kid is left to their own devices most of them will do things that are not good life choices (sex, drugs, drinking). I think that is leading to the downfall of our society, bad parenting.
It appears to me that fist sees the same things I do, that when parents are more active in their children's lives rather than their careers the children thrive and don't end up being parents at 15 and starting the cycle over again. It's not necessarily the mothers job, though.

[Joss-eh-lime]

maybe womens rights does have something to do with divorce rates..

for example, a women isn't thrown into the nearest lake for wanting a divorce these days so she can file for a divorce without the idea of shame, or loss of property.

but maybe it just means with more rights women are now brave enough to stand up for themselves and know exactly what they want in life.