Land without nation to nation without land Options

[ric22]

Land without nation to nation without land.


When Israel was established in 1948, it created a tremendous problem in the Middle East, not a political problem but a religious problem. The Jews had invaded the "House of Peace" turning it into a he "House of War."

This is the situation in Palestine since 1948

Photos:

http://pamolson.org/LebCrisisPics.htm
http://angrywhitekid.blogs.com/weblog/palestine/index.html
http://palestinechronicle.com/index.php
http://www.pchrgaza.org
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com
http://pilger.carlton.com/
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/
http://www.bubbleshare.com/album/46717/overview
http://www.palestinemonitor.org/eyewitness...d_operation.htm
http://www.sunnahonline.com/ilm/contemporary/tia_index.htm
http://www.bigcampaign.org/

[*Podomaht*]

it's israel's land anyways.

[ric22]

You are wrong

America, like Israel, was created by Europeans through a genocide of the indigenous people. White settlers drove the American Indians off their ancestral land. If they fought, they were killed. Indians were confined to a few reservations. No thought was given to the rights of the Indians. Whites believed that God wanted them to have the land. Until recent years, the Indian genocide was celebrated in Western movies, and never criticized in schools. Just as Indians were considered uncivilized heathens not deserving basic rights; so are the Palestinians. The parallels between the establishment of the American and Israeli states are many. The American genocide and enslavement of African people likewise has been insufficiently recognized, criticized, or corrected.
Racism thrives at a subconscious level in the vast majority of Americans' minds. Americans consider themselves and their country to be especially righteous and blessed by God. The Israeli Jews, of course, consider themselves the 'Chosen People'. The religious bigotry and tribalism inherent in this idea require no comment.

Many fundamentalist Christians are 'Friends of Israel'. They take the Book of Revelations in the New Testament very seriously. They believe that Christ's Second Coming to Earth will be preceded by the re-establishment of the Kingdom of Israel and a war over Israel. All the more reason for Protestants to help establish Israel and remain its 'friend'.

See the sources:

Photos:


http://pamolson.org/LebCrisisPics.htm
http://angrywhitekid.blogs.com/weblog/palestine/index.html
http://palestinechronicle.com/index.php
http://www.pchrgaza.org
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com
http://pilger.carlton.com/
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/
http://www.bubbleshare.com/album/46717/overview
http://www.palestinemonitor.org/eyewitness...d_operation.htm
http://www.sunnahonline.com/ilm/contemporary/tia_index.htm
http://www.bigcampaign.org/

[ric22]

The Crusades - After Jewish history and Cowboy history, Americans know Crusader history. Castles and knights fascinate them, and of course the Holy Quest to take back the Holy Land from the Arabs. What could be more wonderful than to see the evil Saracens finally vanquished. How much better if the Jewish people also recreate Israel in their Biblical home in the process? In fact, history will look back on the establishment of the state of Israel as the Ninth Crusade of Western Christendom against Islam. The history books will relate how the collapse of the Ottoman Empire allowed the West to retake the Holy Land and re-enact Biblical history with no risk and little expense - using a small proxy army of Zionist volunteers.


The Holocaust - Americans fought the Germans and liberated many Jews from the concentration camps. The mass- murder and atrocities committed by the Nazis rightly filled Americans with pity. This prompted American to support the establishment of the state of Israel against all wishes and rights of the people living there. The Zionists have continued to shamelessly play on this pity for their own advantage. Their leaders never fail to mention it as a justification for whatever atrocity they commit. One is reminded frequently of the psychological phenomena of identifying with the aggressor. The Zionist Jews have externalized their anger and attempted to undo their own victimization by repeating the Nazi's crimes - the victim this time being the Palestinians.

[*kryogenix*]

How'd the Muslim's acquire the Holy Land in the first place?

OH THAT'S RIGHT, THEY INVADED IT AND KILLED THE PEOPLE THERE.

How many times has Israel owned its neighbors since being founded? How many surprise invasions have they fought off?

[ric22]

You are wrong,I have noting against Jews as people or religion.

FYI o Islamic law function to protect the privileged status of minorities, and this is why non-Muslim places of worship have flourished all over the Islamic world. History provides many examples of Muslim tolerance towards other faiths: when the caliph Omar entered Jerusalem in the year634 , Islam granted freedom of worship to all religious communities in the city.


The Holy Quran

Surah 60. Al-Mumtahana

[60:8] - Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) faith, nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just..

[60:9] - Allah only forbids you, with regard to those who fight you for (your) faith, and drive you out of your homes, and support (others) in driving you out, from turning to them (for friendship and protection). It is such as turn to them (in these circumstances), that do wrong..

AL-Amaidah [5:82] Strongest among men in enmity to the Believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the Believers wilt thou find those who say, "We are Christians": because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant.

[5:83] And when they listen to the revelation received by the Messenger, thou wilt see their eyes overflowing with tears, for they recognize the truth: they pray: "Our Lord! We believe; write us down among the witnesses.

[5:32] Whoever kills a soul, unless for a soul, or for corruption done in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one; it is as if he had saved mankind entirely.

[kayleighSTFU]

Not trying to be rude because I'm always down with history.

But did you start this topic with the sole purpose to start a debate?
Because the very first post doesn't even have a statement involving the rest of us. It doesn't say "Where do you stand on this issue?" or "I [blah blah blah insert opinion here], what's yours?" It almost seems as if you just wanted to start an argument.


Now if you ask me. I hate war. I think it's horrible and uncivil and NECESSARY for survival. I think that in a situation such as this when they are fighting over something so precious, and to them devotion and desire for it are represented by killing each other. Then so be it. Let them kill each other until only one remains. This war has been going on too long. If they can't bite their tongue and agree to disagree and share like GROWN ADULTS let them kill each other.

Is that the kind of response you were looking for starting this conversation? Something that would fire everyone up to get in a big argument?


People need to learn to be civil grown adults on their own time. If 60 years of seeing their brothers dieing isn't enough...then that's on their heads.

And I wont waste my time any longer on a topic that was started for the sole purpose to piss people off.

[*kryogenix*]

You are wrong,I have noting against Jews as people or religion.

FYI o Islamic law function to protect the privileged status of minorities, and this is why non-Muslim places of worship have flourished all over the Islamic world. History provides many examples of Muslim tolerance towards other faiths: when the caliph Omar entered Jerusalem in the year634 , Islam granted freedom of worship to all religious communities in the city.

Yeah right. That's why people get executed for apostasy in Muslim countries. That's why places of worship for other religions get vandalized and destroyed. That's why I know of someone in Pakistan who cannot get a job because he is not Muslim. That's why non Muslims living under Muslim rule are treated as dhimmis. That's why they are forced to pay Jizya. That's why Mohammed attacked caravans and declared war on Mecca. That's why the Muslims conquered the Holy Land, Constantinople, Spain, North Africa... the list goes on. Islam is anything but tolerant.

[Tung]

This is very interesting. Indeed.

[shiftieeyedpnoi]

Israel has Hector AND The Hulk working for it. It deserves whatever it conquers.

[*kryogenix*]

[ric22]

kryogenix,

Again you are wrong.

Islamic tolerance is unchangeable even in time of war. It is prohibited in Islam to kill women, children, old people and worshipers at places of worship. Muslims are enjoined to preserve living animals and vegetation. It is impermissible for them to demolish the enemies’ places of worship. The same ruling applies in international law. Hence, any violation of the enemies’ civilian people or organizations is against both releigion and man-made law.

The status of religious freedom in Malaysia is not a controversial issue. However, it is being controversialized by certain people who are not comfortable enough with their lives and would like to be majority in Malaysia.


Report on International Religious Freedom
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsourc...relyemen00.html

The Relationship Between Muslims and Non-Muslims
http://www.islam1.org/iar/imam/archives/20..._nonmuslims.php

I found this in islam-online:

The Holy Quran

Surah 5 AL-Amaidah [5:32]

Whoever kills a soul, unless for a soul, or for corruption done in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one; it is as if he had saved mankind entirely.


Surah 60. Al-Mumtahana

[60:8] - Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) faith, nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just..

[60:9] - Allah only forbids you, with regard to those who fight you for (your) faith, and drive you out of your homes, and support (others) in driving you out, from turning to them (for friendship and protection). It is such as turn to them (in these circumstances), that do wrong..

AL-Amaidah [5:82] Strongest among men in enmity to the Believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the Believers wilt thou find those who say, "We are Christians": because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant.

[5:83] And when they listen to the revelation received by the Messenger, thou wilt see their eyes overflowing with tears, for they recognize the truth: they pray: "Our Lord! We believe; write us down among the witnesses.

[*kryogenix*]

kryogenix,

Again you are wrong.

Islamic tolerance is unchangeable even in time of war. It is prohibited in Islam to kill women, children, old people and worshipers at places of worship. Muslims are enjoined to preserve living animals and vegetation. It is impermissible for them to demolish the enemies’ places of worship. The same ruling applies in international law. Hence, any violation of the enemies’ civilian people or organizations is against both releigion and man-made law.

The status of religious freedom in Malaysia is not a controversial issue. However, it is being controversialized by certain people who are not comfortable enough with their lives and would like to be majority in Malaysia.

So what your saying is Mohammed did something tjat is impermissible in Islam. And Jizya is part of Sharia law, how can you call that tolerant? Dhimmi status?

Islam wouldn't be what it is today if they didn't break their own rules.