Affirmative Action, go away! Options

[*Steven*]

Affirmative was created way back when to help blacks get back on their feet etc etc. Now it seems a lot of races use it as a crutch, assuming that because they're a minority that they'll get preferential treatment and that if they don't then it's racism. It was supposed to have just faded away as things became more and more equal, but lo and behold, it's still here.

Anyone think it should stay? What are your reasons?

[BOOGERSHAHA]

do you pay for your ancestors' sins? no.
should you benefit from what your ancestors suffered? no.

[*Sandraaa*]

I am completely against it. We're always talking about treating everyone equally, well affirmative action is very much the opposite of it. I would never want to get hired because of my skin color rather my qualification.
Affirmative action stir up too much trouble. Maybe back in the day, it was acceptable but man, it's 2007. This ought to have changed. This way of helping Black people has been misused and over used.

I am very much against.

[kimmytree]

I'm against it. The color of someone's skin should never be a deciding factor for a job or college. Or for scholarships.

A black person is no more deserving than a white person of the same status.

[brooklyneast05]

I'm against it. The color of someone's skin should never be a deciding factor for a job or college. Or for scholarships.

A black person is no more deserving than a white person of the same status.

it's not all skin colour either though is it, gender fits into affirmative action

i don't think it's needed anymore, and i don't want to be hired because im black, i want it to be because i'm right for the job. at one point i think it was needed for minorities and women to have a chance

[*Steven*]

^Haha I was waiting for you to reply to this one.

It wasn't aimed so much @ women as it was @ minorities.

[*Sandraaa*]

^ Like I said, in those days. Now, it's just getting exaggerated, well, from what I see in the media and online. <== Brooklyn

[brooklyneast05]

^Haha I was waiting for you to reply to this one.

It wasn't aimed so much @ women as it was @ minorities.

yea i was going to ask if we were talking about minorities specifically or just in general

i gotcha now

[xKatt]

Against. All men are created equal. I think that's all that needs to be said.

[*Steven*]

Yeah but not all were treated equal. You can tell people they were created equal all you want but that's not going to stop people from being power hungry and having a system of government in which people are not equal in place.

[xKatt]

Well, they're supposed to be. In America, we pride ourselves in liberty, freedom and equality. Having affirmative action goes against everything we stand for. Now instead of putting blacks below everyone else, we're putting them above everyone else.

[*Steven*]

I'm not saying I agree w/ affirmative action. I'm just saying that it's pretty set in a lot of humans to think themselves superior or inferior to individuals, making them not equal by any means.

[xKatt]

Yeah. But actually ... in research, blacks have had the lowest IQ of all races. Just thought I'd point that out.

Whoops, bad info sorry.

[*Steven*]

Those research things are highly biased or inaccurate, as with any poll like that.

[xKatt]

sdfadfasdfasdf

[*Sandraaa*]

Wow Katt, please don't tell me that you actually believe that.

[xKatt]

Oh whoops, I just found out that they're talking about Africans that live in subsaharan Africa, and have no formal education, so my bad.

[*Sandraaa*]

Moving on. We were talking about affirmative action and it'll be lovely if we actually talked about that.

[brooklyneast05]

Moving on. We were talking about affirmative action and it'll be lovely if we actually talked about that.

agreed

[Joss-eh-lime]

i was almost positive it was gone!

well, whether its here or not, i want it.

[brooklyneast05]

i was almost positive it was gone!

well, whether its here or not, i want it.

wanna explain why u want it?

[kimmytree]

^ Probably because she's a minority?

[brooklyneast05]

^ Probably because she's a minority?

so am i and i'm not for it

[kimmytree]

^ That's true, but she said that she "wants it"... so I'm assuming that's because she's a minority and about to enter college. Just an assumption.

[*Sandraaa*]

^ You shouldn't assume for others whether you're right or not. It's a debate forum, she's supposed to explain and not give a one sentence opinion and not back it up.

[animalinside]

Whether you want to face reality or not, many people still have racist tendencies and the media tends to fuel it. Take the african-americans, they are portrayed mostly as ignorant, weed smoking, chain wearing, gun-slinging gangsters. Now, if I were completely prejudice, i wouldnt even hire a guy that reminded me of one of those people if i could get someone else that i didnt consider a risk with more or less the same qualifications. This person that reminded me of the gangster would need to have outstanding qualities for me to put him on the same level as someone else with lesser qualities. Many companies hire thinking stereotypically, and that is where AA came into play, but it does get to be excessive at times.

Im not even a minority and i am for it, but not so much when it comes to academics...although you could argue that some dont have the same educational opportunities as others, but that really does transcend race.

[brooklyneast05]

Whether you want to face reality or not, many people still have racist tendencies and the media tends to fuel it. Take the african-americans, they are portrayed mostly as ignorant, weed smoking, chain wearing, gun-slinging gangsters. Now, if I were completely prejudice, i wouldnt even hire a guy that reminded me of one of those people if i could get someone else that i didnt consider a risk with more or less the same qualifications. This person that reminded me of the gangster would need to have outstanding qualities for me to put him on the same level as someone else with lesser qualities. Many companies hire thinking stereotypically, and that is where AA came into play, but it does get to be excessive at times.

i agree with this quite a bit. although if i had to choose i choose to be against affirmative action, i do think people need to realize that affirmative action isn't just minorities wanting it easier because people in their past suffered. it isn't ridiculous, but it does get over used i think

[*Sandraaa*]

So a minority who's well dressed, articulates very well, has a good resumé will still remind you of gangster?

[*Steven*]

There are always the minorities that makes fools out of themselves because they think the world is against them making a bad name for say hard working Blacks or Hispanics that deserve to succeed.

More so than jobs, I see affirmative action coming into play when it comes to schools. They try to meet racial quotas which takes away opportunities from others that are more qualified, simply because they're not a minority.

[BOOGERSHAHA]

hm. so what about asians? they were/are discriminated against. japanese imprisonment camps during wwii anybody?

and affirmative action actually works against asians especially in the education system. is it just because asians are deemed "smarter" and the government thinks that they don't need any help?

[*Steven*]

^Uhhh... Asians have easier times getting into colleges from what I've seen. The school I went to was about 50% asian and they got into ivy league schools and University of Texas @ Austin with lesser scores than whites who applied to the same place. I don't hold anything against the people who got in, just I don't like the ideal.
Asians are considered minorities and have higher acceptance rates.

[brooklyneast05]

^agreed

i don't think asians getting into school is a problem in the way that other minorities getting in is, and i don't see how affirmative action works against them as far as school goes really

[BOOGERSHAHA]

seriously? from what i've seen, it's easier for white people to get into ivy leagues that asians. it's like, if an asian is ranked #1 nationally in math, it's like "oh cool." but if it's a white person, some tend to think 'HOLY CRAP HOW DID HE/SHE GET SO GOOD?!'

[kimmytree]

seriously? from what i've seen, it's easier for white people to get into ivy leagues that asians. it's like, if an asian is ranked #1 nationally in math, it's like "oh cool." but if it's a white person, some tend to think 'HOLY CRAP HOW DID HE/SHE GET SO GOOD?!'

It's like that around your peers, but not with colleges. People always assume Asians are smarter. With Affirmative Action, a college has to have a certain amount of Asians... who in some cases end up taking white students spots, when they are the ones with the better credintials (sp?). Asians are still a minority in this country.

[Rachel]

hm. so what about asians? they were/are discriminated against. japanese imprisonment camps during wwii anybody?

if you're bringing that up, what about us jews?

[*Sandraaa*]

^ Well, the Jews are under the 'White' category so affirmative action doesn't quite work in their favour.
Although if you're talking about Black / Asian / [insert minority here] Jews, that'd be a completely different case.

[*Steven*]

^ Well, the Jews are under the 'White' category so affirmative action doesn't quite work in their favour.
Although if you're talking about Black / Asian / [insert minority here] Jews, that'd be a completely different case.

Nuh uh. Jews get a separate race, for some odd reason. My friend has it made. He's half white, half Filipino, and he's Jewish.

[BOOGERSHAHA]

if you're bringing that up, what about us jews?

i've actually never thought of that. good point...i guess it's because the jews weren't heavily discriminated against in the united states? the US fought against the nazis so we supported the jewish.

what i see is this:
if a black (or hispanic) person and an asian person apply for college (only one spot left) with the same credentials - the black (or hispanic) person will get in. agree/disagree?

so what do you people think about affirmative action based on ECONOMIC standards, not racial ones? i'm totally up for that idea.

[*Steven*]

i've actually never thought of that. good point...i guess it's because the jews weren't heavily discriminated against in the united states? the US fought against the nazis so we supported the jewish.

what i see is this:
if a black (or hispanic) person and an asian person apply for college (only one spot left) with the same credentials - the black (or hispanic) person will get in. agree/disagree?

so what do you people think about affirmative action based on ECONOMIC standards, not racial ones? i'm totally up for that idea.

Jews are considered their own race on a lot of the applications I've seen.

That's a good point. Affirmative action favors different races more or less, I guess.

What do you mean by economic standards?

[BOOGERSHAHA]

originally affirmative action was put in place to help blacks get back on their feet, right? because they were mostly poor and were facing heavy racism.

however, now there are cases of wealthy black people getting into colleges over poor white people who may have higher credentials. with affirmative action based on economic standards, the "poorer" people with good, solid scores (but maybe not the best ones) would have better opportunities getting into a good college, whether they are white, black, asian, or hispanic.

[*Steven*]

Ohhh, I see. I just say get rid of it all together. If they want to focus on something other than grades, focus on extracurricular activity.

[animalinside]

I say rise to the occasion so you can actually get your voice heard, if you know things are biased just try harder, whining does nothing for you in the long run.
I had no problem getting into UT Austin...hell, i got into Rice but im doing engineering and i love UT's campus. With the top 10 percent thing they used to have it was pretty easy to get into a decent college in Texas, was it not?

Back to my original point, our minds do funny things when we see people, we automatically put people into catergories....some people hold on the the more loosely than others, but the media has taught us to prejudge people based on appearance and thats where the person's origin can really hinder his opportunities at success

[*Sandraaa*]

I still don't get why it's still there. It's 2007, most things have changed for the better.
I honestly think that affirmative action is leading / will lead to discrimination against Whites in the U.S.

[*Steven*]

I say rise to the occasion so you can actually get your voice heard, if you know things are biased just try harder, whining does nothing for you in the long run.
I had no problem getting into UT Austin...hell, i got into Rice but im doing engineering and i love UT's campus. With the top 10 percent thing they used to have it was pretty easy to get into a decent college in Texas, was it not?

Back to my original point, our minds do funny things when we see people, we automatically put people into catergories....some people hold on the the more loosely than others, but the media has taught us to prejudge people based on appearance and thats where the person's origin can really hinder his opportunities at success

They got rid of that rule. Also, going to an extremely competitive high school makes it a lot harder to get into the top 10%. I mean when your school is poppin out tons of 1600/2400 SAT's and has some of the top academic/debate teams, it makes it harder for you to stand out.

I still don't get why it's still there. It's 2007, most things have changed for the better.
I honestly think that affirmative action is leading / will lead to discrimination against Whites in the U.S.

Haha yeah, reverse discrimination has become an issue. Ironic.

[animalinside]

They got rid of that rule. Also, going to an extremely competitive high school makes it a lot harder to get into the top 10%. I mean when your school is poppin out tons of 1600/2400 SAT's and has some of the top academic/debate teams, it makes it harder for you to stand out.

I mentioned that in my post already...note the past-tense verb usage

If its UT you're trying to get into a semi-decent SAT score along with maybe a 15% or so placing will probably get you in.

Plus if you think about it, going to a school like that is definitely a blessing, you are around many people that want to be greater academically. It isnt like you are wasting your time learning things just so you can get into the school of your choice....you could go to a really stupid school (i.e. most HISD schools) and prolly get into the top 3 not having done much to deserve it, or you could go to the school your in right now...maybe join those top academic teams and use your participation to pad your resume.

Motivation is really what it all comes down to. Many valedictorians that i know of had to settle for UT because they were turned down by their first school, and it usually came down to the lack of programs the school offered

[*Steven*]

Which school did you go to? Also the school I went to (Clements) was ridiculous in it's placing. I know some really smart people who had like 3.8 GPA's but were only 25%. It's not so much a blessing when the majority of the people from your school who apply get cap'd through UTSA. I know some very smart people who got cap'd and then there are people from Dulles High School or Elkins (where it's easy to get top placings) who got in and aren't exactly the sharpest tool in the shed, but they're going to UT and others aren't.

[HoodNigga]

do you pay for your ancestors' sins? no.
should you benefit from what your ancestors suffered? no.

LOL but black people weren't free just because slavery ended in the mid 1800s. All the way up to the 1960s blacks were treated unequally, which means those same people who were discriminated against are still living. If you put that together with all the other races that were discriminated against here in America, black people had it a lot worse.

As far as affirmative action, it just like anything else. It has its pros and cons. Like someone mentioned earlier its good based on the fact that people tend to use prejudice when it comes to hiring, on the other hand its still discrimination against someone else of another background.

And as far as the race and college acceptance thing. We never talk about UT's other acceptance policy now do we? Because everything is focused on race. What about the policy they have where if you finish in the top 10 of your class you're automatically accepted? Now lets say a person went to a far more magnet high school and finished with a 3.9 gpa and finished 12 in his class. But yet someone who went to just a regular school finished with a 3.7 gpa and graduated at number 6 in his class. The guy with the 3.7 gpa gets in. Is this fair?

Of course using race and policies like this is not fair, but I would hope that UT would try to accept more blacks, especially with them having tons of black athletes. What sense does it make to have a team filled with blacks, but no black students in the school except for the athletes?

If they get rid of the minority acceptance policy , then I would expect them to stop accepting minority athletes who don't meet the requirements as well. Do you think they would do that? No because they don't want their athletic program to look bad, because that brings in a lot of money.

[animalinside]

Which school did you go to? Also the school I went to (Clements) was ridiculous in it's placing. I know some really smart people who had like 3.8 GPA's but were only 25%. It's not so much a blessing when the majority of the people from your school who apply get cap'd through UTSA. I know some very smart people who got cap'd and then there are people from Dulles High School or Elkins (where it's easy to get top placings) who got in and aren't exactly the sharpest tool in the shed, but they're going to UT and others aren't.

I went to Stratford (spring branch isd) and plenty of my friends at UT went to Elkins...heck, even the valedictorian goes to UT as well...and not to sound elitist or anything but in high school a 3.8 isnt very competitive especially with all the bonuses you can get with Ap classes and the like. Many high ranking students dont get into ivy leagues due to not having enough distinguishing things on the side...or you can bypass it all by having a legacy, but i dont even wanna get into that.

[*Steven*]

Oh don't worry about sounding elitist, I wasn't talkin bout the GPA they got from AP classes. They graded that on a 6.0 scale, but I don't remember really asking them what they had on that.

Regardless, I still dislike affirmative action :)

[Spirited Away]

About Asians and AA.

Minda (comradered) did the research in our previous Affirmative Action thread and I agree that AA is BAD for Asians.

Justin did research, too.

http://www.createblog.com/forums/index.php...st&p=267038

http://www.createblog.com/forums/index.php...st&p=274174

http://www.createblog.com/forums/index.php...st&p=277378


Just FYI.

[kimmytree]

^ More than it is for whites?

[animalinside]

People believe that Affirmative Action isnt fair because they only see how it affects themselves, and sometimes they look at the surface of it and everything seems completely unbalanced, but if you look further down the timeline, like with job placement, promotions and what not, things arent fairly balanced there either.

It isnt a perfect system, but it is definitely better than nothing

[*Steven*]

^Provide examples please, I'm not understanding what you're trying to say.

Nowadays everyone's so focused on equal opportunity, equality, etc etc, and then we still have Affirmative Action.

[dannyordinary]

I think it should stay
since not everyone has the help that others do.

[brooklyneast05]

I think it should stay
since not everyone has the help that others do.

but also the ones who have more help, it isn't really their fault.
whether i'm black or not my parents had plenty of money to send me to a good college, and it's not my fault that i had more help and opportunity than some people. i wouldn't wanna be punished for things i can't control. but that goes both ways i guess, just like i wouldn't wanna be punished because my skins black and they are set on hiring a white dude, even if i'm just as qualified.

[Spirited Away]

^ More than it is for whites?

Generally, Asians are held on the same level as Whites on college admissions. However, I've read some articles that show many instances where they are worst off than Whites.

[Joss-eh-lime]

Yeah but not all were treated equal. You can tell people they were created equal all you want but that's not going to stop people from being power hungry and having a system of government in which people are not equal in place.

exactly thank you

[jesusisthebestth...]

i'm torn on this subject simply because i didn't live in a time when there was no affirmative action, so i do not know how things once were. but no one is treated equally at all times, as a result of race, ethnicity, financial status, social status, etc...so i find that affirmative action is good for those less privileged in challenging situations.

but affirmative action goes both ways...i wish people would stop acting like african americans are the only people who benefit from affirmative action.

[*ersatz*]

Generally, Asians are held on the same level as Whites on college admissions. However, I've read some articles that show many instances where they are worst off than Whites.

Asians still get extra points on standardized tests. I don't know anything else because as of yet it doesn't affect me, but I do know about standardized tests.

[Comptine]

Generally, Asians are held on the same level as Whites on college admissions. However, I've read some articles that show many instances where they are worst off than Whites.

It depends on how you look at "worst off". A lot of asians (Part of our culture, I guess. In China and other Asian countries, universities are reserved for the very, very top of the nation. Out of millions a city that take the merit test, only a couple thousand move on to higher education) spend a lot of time on grades and studying. So a lot of them are only academically appealing while other candidates have other stuff going for them. For the really competitive institutions like Harvard and Princeton, all these Asians look the same. Also, these colleges get hoards of Asians that obviously only apply to them for the name.

I think affirmative action should get tweaked. I knew someone in my school who was like a star football player, his parents were extremely successful, he was smart but he was also black. He got into Harvard. Everyone was sure he had a good chance to get in based on merit but everyone knew it was locked in because of his race. Another girl in my school had mediocre grades but had a relatively well off family and most people wouldn't call her UPenn material. She put Hispanic down and I think that helped her get accepted.

Affirmative action shouldn't look at race anymore. It should look at the community or social or economic class the person comes from. I think that is a fairer "help" than based on race because it would be ridiculious to "help" someone when they obviously had the means to succeed and do well. The two people I mentioned and I, we attended a really good school with excellent resources. They both came from a good environment. If they already had a good thing going for them and they are equal to White/Asian candidates, why should they get picked because they were a minority?

College is already extremely competitive where a dozen other people applying have the same stuff as you. Why should someone on an equal level get picked just because they were Hispanic or Black? I would understand if colleges picked a person if he came from the projects, attended a shit school with nothing to offer, his parents worked minimum wage jobs, and he was always minding his siblings and still managed to shine and make something of himself. That is a person that deserves a break and given a bit more allowance.

[*Sandraaa*]

I think affirmative action should get tweaked. I knew someone in my school who was like a star football player, his parents were extremely successful, he was smart but he was also black. He got into Harvard. Everyone was sure he had a good chance to get in based on merit but everyone knew it was locked in because of his race.

I don't understand. You say he was smart and had a good chance, so what makes you think that wasn't the reason he got into Harvard?
It makes it seem as if Blacks in Ivy league colleges are accepted because of their race.

[animalinside]

Plus he played football very well, Harvard will obviously be more willing to accept someone that will be beneficial to them in many ways

[Comptine]

^I didn't say he didn't deserve it nor did i say it's surprising he's in Ivy League cause he's black. But there are others like him who are just as qualified. That fact that no one doubted whether or not he'll get in is because he had his merit AND affirmative action on his side - making him a shoo in. But if he were white or asian, even if he had the merit, it wouldn't guarantee his acceptance.

it's not that black people in Ivy League are there because of AA. But for everyone else, being qualified and a minority is the best way to get into Harvard where even 2400 SATs and a valedictorian has an iffy chance.

[animalinside]

plenty of 2400's and 1st in class dont get into ivy leagues all the time. You could make the same argument for people with legacies that usually get in with 2200+ and like top 5 percent rankings.

[BOOGERSHAHA]

ugh i hate legacy! fin.

[*Sandraaa*]

^I didn't say he didn't deserve it nor did i say it's surprising he's in Ivy League cause he's black. But there are others like him who are just as qualified. That fact that no one doubted whether or not he'll get in is because he had his merit AND affirmative action on his side - making him a shoo in. But if he were white or asian, even if he had the merit, it wouldn't guarantee his acceptance.

it's not that black people in Ivy League are there because of AA. But for everyone else, being qualified and a minority is the best way to get into Harvard where even 2400 SATs and a valedictorian has an iffy chance.

Why do you keep insisting that Affirmative action helped him? I still don't buy this.

But if he were white or asian, even if he had the merit, it wouldn't guarantee his acceptance.

I see. So only African Americans in this situation are guaranteed to get accepted?

[Comptine]

^Because, everybody knows that even if someone has the merit, he/she might not get into Harvard or Princeton. But some people use AA to give them an extra boost. I don't think he put down his race to get more help nor do I think he's like that but other people around him knows that AA will favor him. We saw other kids who were really smart and did great things but didn't get into their schools.

My point is that AA already has a negative perception among people who don't get it. Many people wouldn't say Bob got in to Harvard even when he has a 99 average and a 2400 SAT because people know that's not enough to get in. However, if Bob was a minority, he has something extra going for him.

He was my friend. I had class with him. He was really nice and very helpful in class. I knew he was smart and talented. He had a good chance at Harvard. But I understood Harvard's admission's process and about my school's relationship with Harvard. For other people, they had a good chance but with Harvard you can never be sure. But everyone KNEW he was going to get in because AA would help him. He was already there but AA confirmed it.

[innovation]

do you pay for your ancestors' sins? no.
should you benefit from what your ancestors suffered? no.

originally affirmative action was put in place to help blacks get back on their feet, right? because they were mostly poor and were facing heavy racism.

These reasons are rather obsolete in the modern world. Currently, academic institutions implement affirmative action policies because racial diversity is considered a public good. In the United States, diversity is a positive value, and since many institutions now compete against one another to attract qualified applicants, promoting racial diversity is a factor that might play into students' college decisions. In order to enhance the attractiveness and quality of its institution, a university chooses to adopt this policy.

Thus, I think that affirmative action stems more from pragmatism than from moral obligations to blacks. After all, Hispanics benefit equally from affirmative action, despite the fact that they were not enslaved on a widespread basis. From my perspective, this debate is more about the rights of the private sector than anything else.

Along the same token, socioeconomic diversity has recently been viewed as another public good; outreach initiatives to lower-income classes enhance a university's public image. Thus, many universities have taken the initiative to recruit lower-income students. For instance, my university offers a full ride to any student with an annual household income below $60K. Other universities have adopted similar measures and have dedicated more time and effort to attracting socioeconomically disadvantaged students.

People always assume Asians are smarter. With Affirmative Action, a college has to have a certain amount of Asians... who in some cases end up taking white students spots, when they are the ones with the better credintials (sp?). Asians are still a minority in this country.

Affirmative action policies do not require colleges to admit "a certain amount of Asians"; that policy would constitute the institution of quotas, which is illegal.

[Joss-eh-lime]

I think the solution is to have something that aids people with low incomes, regardless of race, of gender.

Like "Help the Less Fortunate Have a Chance at Success" Action.

[brooklyneast05]

i agree with that more than just going by race,
but still u run into a lot of the same issues i think. is it really someones fault that their parents make more money that another persons, and should they get priority over that person for things they cant control.

[*Uronacid*]

Meh... affirmative action... it's lame, but only because I'm a white male. Life's a competition, and I don't want anyone to have an unfair advantage. I want to survive. I was born a white male, and I want to reap the benefits of being one. I'm sorry you were born a female, Black, Jew, Asian, with green hair. Fuck off, I went to college, I have better grades than you, and did I forget to mention my gorgeous white skin, blue eyes, and blond hair *sparkle*.

Here, I made an acronym for all your supporters of Affirmative Action.

W - worship
H - holy
I - invincible
T - tough
E - excelence

M - man
A - awsome
L - wonderful (that one was backwards)
E - Everything you want to hire

Basically, affirmative action is like our gov't saying saying, "Alright, we know that white males are better than you guys, so we'll give you a handicap because you're not as good as they are."

*our gov't hands a crutch to all the minorities*

Hey, would any of you be interested in licking my white male ass-hole? It tastes better than a chocolate pretzel.

[innovation]

^ What a meaningless, tactless, fallacy-ridden post.

Institutions and corporations don't implement a policy of affirmative action out of pity or mockery. (Refer to my previous post)

[animalinside]

Meh... affirmative action... it's lame, but only because I'm a white male. Life's a competition, and I don't want anyone to have an unfair advantage. I want to survive. I was born a white male, and I want to reap the benefits of being one. I'm sorry you were born a female, Black, Jew, Asian, with green hair. Fuck off, I went to college, I have better grades than you, and did I forget to mention my gorgeous white skin, blue eyes, and blond hair *sparkle*.

Here, I made an acronym for all your supporters of Affirmative Action.

W - worship
H - holy
I - invincible
T - tough
E - excelence

M - man
A - awsome
L - wonderful (that one was backwards)
E - Everything you want to hire

Basically, affirmative action is like our gov't saying saying, "Alright, we know that white males are better than you guys, so we'll give you a handicap because you're not as good as they are."

*our gov't hands a crutch to all the minorities*

Hey, would any of you be interested in licking my white male ass-hole? It tastes better than a chocolate pretzel.

You make me ashamed to be white... especially when you post speaking of supremacy, when in reality it only illustrates your inferiority...not to mention your grammar/spelling mistakes

[Joss-eh-lime]

Meh... affirmative action... it's lame, but only because I'm a white male. Life's a competition, and I don't want anyone to have an unfair advantage. I want to survive. I was born a white male, and I want to reap the benefits of being one. I'm sorry you were born a female, Black, Jew, Asian, with green hair. Fuck off, I went to college, I have better grades than you, and did I forget to mention my gorgeous white skin, blue eyes, and blond hair *sparkle*.

Here, I made an acronym for all your supporters of Affirmative Action.

W - worship
H - holy
I - invincible
T - tough
E - excelence

M - man
A - awsome
L - wonderful (that one was backwards)
E - Everything you want to hire

Basically, affirmative action is like our gov't saying saying, "Alright, we know that white males are better than you guys, so we'll give you a handicap because you're not as good as they are."

your post contradicts itself...
you claim to be better than everyone else in your little white male acronym, yet you say affirmative action gives others an unfair advantage?

if you are so much better than everyone else, why is affirmative action hurting you? its just helping others.

or are you so racist that anyone else getting help when they need it is totally unacceptable?

[*Insurmountable*]

Wasn't he joking o_O at least from the looks of thats what I would think..

Although I have to say its funny that you guys are actually getting mad about him about it all and calling him racist and so on.

[*Uronacid*]

You make me ashamed to be white... especially when you post speaking of supremacy, when in reality it only illustrates your inferiority...not to mention your grammar/spelling mistakes

If you think that it was a serious post, then you're just a fucking idiot. Also, attacking my grammar skills will not add to your side of the debate. You're just wasting your time.

your post contradicts itself...
you claim to be better than everyone else in your little white male acronym, yet you say affirmative action gives others an unfair advantage?

if you are so much better than everyone else, why is affirmative action hurting you? its just helping others.

or are you so racist that anyone else getting help when they need it is totally unacceptable?

What kind of moron would use a self-righteous acronym if he was making an attempt to be serious in a debate. If you didn't get the hint of sarcasm from that post, I'll spell it out for you:

YOU'RE F**KING IGNORANT IF YOU THOUGHT THAT WAS SERIOUS.

Affirmative Action doesn't help people. Affirmative Action is one of the most racist bills in the history of the United States. Why should anyone receive special treatment because of their race. Unless it's a medical issue caused by characteristics in a certain race, I don't think they should be treated any different.

Affirmative Action treats people different based upon their minority status. It gives minorities an advantage in job market, education, and many government programs. Why should I have to suffer loosing a job to someone who is less qualified than I am just because of the color of their skin? Why should I be subject to being discriminated when applying to colleges just because of their sex? Why should I be subject to discrimination when applying for financial aid just because that person (hypothetically speaking) has darker skin than I do?

Do you think it's fair for people to discriminate against white people? That's what affirmative action does. Just about any action that gives an advantage to individuals based upon race is discriminatory. I don't like affirmative action because I'm being discriminated against. It gives other races an unfair advantage over me. How come treating white people different isn't considered racist?

As for suggesting that I'm racist. If anything, you're the racist fuck for supporting shit like this. Are you racist? Are you supporting laws that separate people by race? I know I'm not.

Why don't you grow up and learn to joke around you fucking idiot.

LOL

On a lighter note, i found a word for the letter "L". Lovely. :D

[bat19]

^I disagree. I think many people who have jobs right now and have actually made something of themselves wouldnt be in that position today were it not for A.A.(Not Alcoholics Anonymous you scunts, though I guess it works both ways).
I think that ALL Gangsters in the world are useless pieces of shit. I think that gangsters, whether they be Black or Latin or Asian are really the ones who take advantage of Affirmative Action. I think that minorities(which is really a dumb term at this point, seeing as how there are more "minorities" than whites these days) who are having trouble getting a good job benefit from this and thats definitely a good thing. Its a statistical fact that whites get jobs much much easier than blacks or hispanios(new word). Not only jobs but college acceptance and other thingies of that nature. Should a hispanio who scored less on a entrance exam get the job/acceptance over a caucasian who scored better? No, absolutely not. But if they are equal, why not give the Blacko's the job. Honky McGee will get another job easier than a sheephead(another new racist term for blacks). Sure, you might not believe that, but I know from my job that we've hired about one charcoal-babies for every eight marshmallow skins. We're not racist, we're ...selective. We choose people who would fit in with our little group of pale-skinned roundeyes. So no, I dont think that A.A. is racist against whities, I think they should shut the F@*$)#$*@* up because they've peaked already with the milkman and the Leave it to Beaver. Now its the blacks turn with the drugs and the BET and the Ice Cube movies. In a few years, it'll be the rice-eaters turn with all the technology coming out of that radioactive island of theirs.
The last to peak will be hispanios, we never get our break, unless you count that two year shit with Ricky Martin and J-Lo. But NOOOO we couldn't have our turn. Eminem had to come and f**k it up you goddamn traitor, you didnt even help your side!!

[*Uronacid*]

^I disagree. I think many people who have jobs right now and have actually made something of themselves wouldnt be in that position today were it not for A.A.(Not Alcoholics Anonymous you scunts, though I guess it works both ways).
I think that ALL Gangsters in the world are useless pieces of shit. I think that gangsters, whether they be Black or Latin or Asian are really the ones who take advantage of Affirmative Action. I think that minorities(which is really a dumb term at this point, seeing as how there are more "minorities" than whites these days) who are having trouble getting a good job benefit from this and thats definitely a good thing. Its a statistical fact that whites get jobs much much easier than blacks or hispanios(new word). Not only jobs but college acceptance and other thingies of that nature. Should a hispanio who scored less on a entrance exam get the job/acceptance over a caucasian who scored better? No, absolutely not. But if they are equal, why not give the Blacko's the job. Honky McGee will get another job easier than a sheephead(another new racist term for blacks). Sure, you might not believe that, but I know from my job that we've hired about one charcoal-babies for every eight marshmallow skins. We're not racist, we're ...selective. We choose people who would fit in with our little group of pale-skinned roundeyes. So no, I dont think that A.A. is racist against whities, I think they should shut the F@*$)#$*@* up because they've peaked already with the milkman and the Leave it to Beaver. Now its the blacks turn with the drugs and the BET and the Ice Cube movies. In a few years, it'll be the rice-eaters turn with all the technology coming out of that radioactive island of theirs.
The last to peak will be hispanios, we never get our break, unless you count that two year shit with Ricky Martin and J-Lo. But NOOOO we couldn't have our turn. Eminem had to come and f**k it up you goddamn traitor, you didnt even help your side!!

Fuck you Jeremy,

it's unfortunate that Racism exists, but the laws that separate honkies from chinks and niggas from spics are only making it worse. Affirmative Action is a short term investment. While it does sound good to help out these people right now, we aren't thinking about their future. This is a law that will encourage people to see people of a different race or sex as different. This is a law that encourages Racism in the long run. This is a law that will continue to widen the invisible gap or glass ceiling that separates the sheep-head from the skinhead.

Jeremy, you have bad grammar. Go kill yourself. The milkman wasn't always white. There were black and white milkmen. Leave it to Beaver sucked ass.

You know, the white are even better at getting the most kills in a single attack.

Whites - Hiroshima : 140,000
Middle Easterns - 9/11 : 2,752
Asians - Pearl harbor : 2,350
Spanish - The Alamo : 183
African Americans - Gangsta Warz : Fifty-cent got hit with nine bullets and didn't die. Black people hired white men to kill Biggie Smalls.
British - Are always being attacked

^ What a meaningless, tactless, fallacy-ridden post.

Institutions and corporations don't implement a policy of affirmative action out of pity or mockery. (Refer to my previous post)

LOL, I'm sure they don't. I don't think that affirmative action was put into play out of mockery or pity to begin with. I was clearly joking around. xD

I do however believe that it promotes racism.

[Joss-eh-lime]

What kind of moron would use a self-righteous acronym if he was making an attempt to be serious in a debate. If you didn't get the hint of sarcasm from that post, I'll spell it out for you:

YOU'RE F**KING IGNORANT IF YOU THOUGHT THAT WAS SERIOUS.

Why don't you grow up and learn to joke around you fucking idiot.

LOL

On a lighter note, i found a word for the letter "L". Lovely. :D

hahahahahaha
well, you know you just might be the funniest person I've ever talked to!

[manybrokenhearts]

Me being an asian chick I think we should keep it. Think about it, I am from Southeast Asia with brown skin. Do you think some college in New York will accept me with the whole post9-11 bias against my skin color? No they wouldn't if there wasn't an AA. Some schools here in the south are red necks and do you think they would accept a female or a colored person same here in the work place.

[*Steven*]

If colleges were even being biased about that, they would discriminate against males much more than females. You shouldn't need AA to get into a college. It's a crutch that says, "I wasn't smart enough so I had to use my skin color to get me in".

So much for all men are created equally.

[*Uronacid*]

If colleges were even being biased about that, they would discriminate against males much more than females. You shouldn't need AA to get into a college. It's a crutch that says, "I wasn't smart enough so I had to use my skin color to get me in".

So much for all men are created equally.

OH yeah ;] FUCK YEAH AMERICA!!!!

[innovation]

Even if he's joking, he's still implying that affirmative action is a policy of sympathy. My previous post argues against this belief.

[*ersatz*]

Me being an asian chick I think we should keep it. Think about it, I am from Southeast Asia with brown skin. Do you think some college in New York will accept me with the whole post9-11 bias against my skin color? No they wouldn't if there wasn't an AA. Some schools here in the south are red necks and do you think they would accept a female or a colored person same here in the work place.

The colleges don't see you...it's not like you send in a picture or something. Don't mark your race down if you're that worried, but you shouldn't be...being Asian helps you more than anything.

[*Uronacid*]

The colleges don't see you...it's not like you send in a picture or something. Don't mark your race down if you're that worried, but you shouldn't be...being Asian helps you more than anything.

yeah, she's not kidding. I marked my race as Asian so I could get into college.

[faydedprimadonna]

ok... i'm aware that my opinion is most likely going to make some waves, people are going to get all bent out of shape, and i'll most likely be labelled as a racist... NOTE THIS: i really don't care...

i believe that affirmative action is a complete and utter misuse of the system... i was under the impression that america was all about "the best man for the job"... i always thought that the person who is MOST qualified should get the job... affirmative action is spitting in the face of that... two people take a civil service exam, one guy scores an 85% and the other guy scores a 90%... who should get the job? the 90%, right? common sense says YES! unfortunately, because of affirmative action, if the 85% is a black guy, they give him the job... i'm sorry, but that's just RETARDED! i was under the impression that "african-americans" just wanted to be "equal" and people should just "ignore the color of someone's skin"... well... those statements completely contradict their actions... 3/4 of my family came to america from ireland... should i hunt down the rich family that made my ancestors indentured servants and demand reparations? i think that if you cry for equality, then you should live equally to everyone else... this country is f**ked up enough as it is without it's own people raping it as well

[*Uronacid*]

ok... i'm aware that my opinion is most likely going to make some waves, people are going to get all bent out of shape, and i'll most likely be labelled as a racist... NOTE THIS: i really don't care...

i believe that affirmative action is a complete and utter misuse of the system... i was under the impression that america was all about "the best man for the job"... i always thought that the person who is MOST qualified should get the job... affirmative action is spitting in the face of that... two people take a civil service exam, one guy scores an 85% and the other guy scores a 90%... who should get the job? the 90%, right? common sense says YES! unfortunately, because of affirmative action, if the 85% is a black guy, they give him the job... i'm sorry, but that's just RETARDED! i was under the impression that "african-americans" just wanted to be "equal" and people should just "ignore the color of someone's skin"... well... those statements completely contradict their actions... 3/4 of my family came to america from ireland... should i hunt down the rich family that made my ancestors indentured servants and demand reparations? i think that if you cry for equality, then you should live equally to everyone else... this country is f**ked up enough as it is without it's own people raping it as well

Agree

[brooklyneast05]

ok...
i believe that affirmative action is a complete and utter misuse of the system... i was under the impression that america was all about "the best man for the job"... i always thought that the person who is MOST qualified should get the job... affirmative action is spitting in the face of that... two people take a civil service exam, one guy scores an 85% and the other guy scores a 90%... who should get the job? the 90%, right? common sense says YES! unfortunately, because of affirmative action, if the 85% is a black guy, they give him the job... i'm sorry, but that's just RETARDED! i was under the impression that "african-americans" just wanted to be "equal" and people should just "ignore the color of someone's skin"... well... those statements completely contradict their actions... 3/4 of my family came to america from ireland... should i hunt down the rich family that made my ancestors indentured servants and demand reparations? i think that if you cry for equality, then you should live equally to everyone else... this country is f**ked up enough as it is without it's own people raping it as well

i don't think anyone is really disagreeing with that.
i think the argument for affirmative action though is what about when the black guy makes a 90 and the white guy makes an 85, but the white guy gets the job because because he's white.

i don't really agree with affirmative action either, but i see why people do

if everyone got treated equally, we wouldn't have any problems, but they don't

[faydedprimadonna]

i don't think anyone is really disagreeing with that.
i think the argument for affirmative action though is what about when the black guy makes a 90 and the white guy makes an 85, but the white guy gets the job because because he's white.

that's a good point, but it doesn't happen often enough anymore to make a sound argument for AA... unless it's in the deep south... and then i feel like they should know better... some places aren't going to change... so common sense says, stay away from those places... the world's always going to be a little racist... it's just how much people are willing to admit it... everyone (except for mother teresa and her little wannabes) has a prejudice... based on history, location, family upbringing, whatever... it's all about who's secure enough to admit it... i just really hate when people pull the race card to get what they think they deserve... sometimes it really comes down to, "you just aren't qualified enough"... take a breath and try somewhere else... don't cry about how you didn't get it cuz of your race... that's such a copout

[brooklyneast05]

that's a good point, but it doesn't happen often enough anymore to make a sound argument for AA... unless it's in the deep south... and then i feel like they should know better... some places aren't going to change... so common sense says, stay away from those places... the world's always going to be a little racist... it's just how much people are willing to admit it... everyone (except for mother teresa and her little wannabes) has a prejudice... based on history, location, family upbringing, whatever... it's all about who's secure enough to admit it... i just really hate when people pull the race card to get what they think they deserve... sometimes it really comes down to, "you just aren't qualified enough"... take a breath and try somewhere else... don't cry about how you didn't get it cuz of your race... that's such a copout

its 100% dependent on the situation and people involved. sometimes they are just little cry babies, and sometimes there's racism involved. i don't think we can accurately say how often racism affects it, and it happens everywhere, not just the south. and i know we've already gone over that this thread is about race...but affirmative action ISNT just race, it's gender as well, and i think that discrimination happens just as much, if not more, than by race. u wouldn't wanna lose a job to me simply because im a man and you're a woman, and i wouldn't wanna lose a job to u because your white and im black. sometimes though i think that happens without someone intending to be racist or sexist, i don't think they realize they are choosing one over the other based on something like that.

geez
i don't know, i really don't know
sometimes i think AA seems ridiculous, but sometimes i don't, can't make up my mind for sure.

(except for mother teresa and her little wannabes)

that made me chuckle

[faydedprimadonna]

i'm glad... i can't manage to be too serious for very long... it's true to an extent though... there are these people out there (my grandmother being one of them) that refuses to acknowledge the fact that she's a little bit prejudice... i mean c'mon! the woman grew up in the bronx... she says things that are clearly biased and then denies having a prejudice... people try too hard to overcome something that is too ingrained in them and they end up just looking rediculous... if you're a racist, sexist, whatever, just own up to it, if you can't change it, then own it...

[*Uronacid*]

i don't think anyone is really disagreeing with that.
i think the argument for affirmative action though is what about when the black guy makes a 90 and the white guy makes an 85, but the white guy gets the job because because he's white.

i don't really agree with affirmative action either, but i see why people do

if everyone got treated equally, we wouldn't have any problems, but they don't

yes, but forcing people to treat others with inequality will just make it worse.


The only things that will ever end racism:

- Edjucation and Time
- Genocide

[faydedprimadonna]

yes, but forcing people to treat others with inequality will just make it worse.
The only things that will ever end racism:

- Edjucation and Time
- Genocide

true story there! as for the end of racism... i don't know how much time people need, but it's seems like if almost 2 centuries hasn't helped, i don't know how much one can count on that... and education clearly isn't helping that much... so... i vote genocide! it worked for hitler right?

[hotsoup]

Racism and Discrimination are going to be around no matter what we do. It's not like the world is the Matrix and we can hit everyone at the same time with the ability to realize that turning someone down for a job because of their ethnicity/skin color or gender is a really dumb thing to do.

At one point, Affirmative Action was definitely necessary, if for the simple fact that Southerners are idiots and refuse to change. However, it's been so misused and misapplied in recent years, that it has out lived its usefulness.

I look at it this way, if we remove AA and we have stupid pricks who choose to discriminate against someone for one reason or another, sue their asses. We have a decent enough civil court system where you could take them for a few million or possibly everything they own and will ever own.

[LoveDanceSoul]

From what I know about Affirmative Action, it only works if you're proven to be qualified and discrimination is evident. It has nothing to do with lowering standards because of skin color. It also works in a situation where a white person would be the minority. So it works both ways.

[*Steven*]

From what I know about Affirmative Action, it only works if you're proven to be qualified and discrimination is evident. It has nothing to do with lowering standards because of skin color. It also works in a situation where a white person would be the minority. So it works both ways.

You do realize that AA has set quotas by the government in the work place where they have to hire x amount of non-white employees, if they have a certain amount of employees or more, right? I've always been under the ideas of a libertarian government would be what I liked best, where the government didn't intervene in anything that wasn't necessary for the nations well being and safety.

[*Uronacid*]

true story there! as for the end of racism... i don't know how much time people need, but it's seems like if almost 2 centuries hasn't helped, i don't know how much one can count on that... and education clearly isn't helping that much... so... i vote genocide! it worked for hitler right?

Yes yes, it did work for Hitler... until we came in and fucked it all up!!

[LoveDanceSoul]

You do realize that AA has set quotas by the government in the work place where they have to hire x amount of non-white employees, if they have a certain amount of employees or more, right? I've always been under the ideas of a libertarian government would be what I liked best, where the government didn't intervene in anything that wasn't necessary for the nations well being and safety.

Same with HBCU's and predominantly non-white companies. They give minority scholarships for whites. My cousin graduated from the prestigious Morehouse College on a full scholarship..and went on to Wharton to get an M.B.A. They only have to hire x amount of "minority" employees in order to get extra perks like extra funding.

[*Uronacid*]

Oh whoops, I just found out that they're talking about Africans that live in subsaharan Africa, and have no formal education, so my bad.

hahahHahaHahhahahhahahHhAHAHAHHahHhHa, at least me and Jeremy aren't serious. XD

[*Sandraaa*]

GREAT DEBATE AT LAST! Just wanted to say that.

Sooooo ... continue folks.