Mod Punishment Options

[*tripvertigo*]

We all know what happens when members break the rules, and whatnot. Warnings, Mutings, Suspensions, Bans...

What should happen to a moderator if they are out of line?

[*ersatz*]

What's the case? What did they do wrong? It depends on the situation.

[*tripvertigo*]

Lets say they warned you for no f**kin reason.

[*ersatz*]

If they seriously just warned someone out of nowhere, they should probably do a little 3-day not-a-mod thing and take a breather.

[1angel3]

I assume Micron would take care that.

[*tripvertigo*]

Ok now lets say they have a reason for warning you but they're wrong.


HYPOTHETICALLY

[*tripvertigo*]

"handle it"

See i dont see how their "Punishment" would just be to be demodded for 3 days or so.

Do moderators not get suspended and warned like the rest of us?

[*shotgunFUNERAL*]

I assume Micron would take care that.

LMFAO! you're wrong.

we kind of asked the same thing, like why elba and i were warned for 2 weeks and demoted from our official member status, when robbi and diana did the same thing and only took a week off of their moderating duties.

[*mzkandi*]

Ok now lets say they have a reason for warning you but they're wrong.
HYPOTHETICALLY

People make mistakes. I've certainly made them during my "career" as a mod. You take note of the mistake, analyze what you did wrong, and work up from there.

[sadolakced acid]

people make mistakes, but somehow that doesn't seem to work as an excuse when you're a mere member.

[sadolakced acid]

Wouldn't hurt to have some actual guidelines for punishing mods though.

you know, set rules.

It's something the bylaws should have taken care of if people had actually finished it.

[*mzkandi*]

Um. We did finish the bylaws and had them officially written up a long time ago here. (Did you edit? You mentioned something about the bylaws not being finished). It's just that the topic of mod punishment (like, official guidelines) was never brought up for discussion, to my knowledge.

[sadolakced acid]

oh, you guys finally got it done?

Well, throw in some rules on how mods are to be punished, will you?

[*kryogenix*]

Are you kidding me? Members are given much, much, much more chances than moderators.

For example, some of the active members of the community...they get off-topic a lot, spam, occasionally border-line bash...but I don't take action on every single thing they do. That would just be annoying.

If a mod constantly did that, it would simply be unacceptable. They would be straight up told to stop, and if they didn't there would be no verbal warnings...if they constantly exhibited this behavior and didn't do their jobs, they'd be at risk for demotion.

Plus, mods basically are expected to walk on eggshells sometimes...I'm probably one of the most out spoken people on this forum. Can I say everything I want to say? No, that wouldn't be acceptable--I'm a moderator. Can members get away with being "bluntly honest"? Yes.

So how many times do the mods as a whole get to unfairly target a single member before they're punished?

[*tripvertigo*]

you dont think they should also be suspended from the forum for a period of time AND demoted?

[sadolakced acid]

Mods can yell at members, express thier opinions, etc. What they can't do is use their power to do so.

Abusing moderator powers should result in permenant demotion. When they abuse the power, they should they can't handle it. Sure, 2 weeks might make them cool off over one situation, but next time something similar happens they'll abuse their power again.

[*tripvertigo*]

no not two punishments for one offense.
so what, you demote them and they still get to post around the forum and do whatever? they didnt just abuse their powers, they attacked a member. thats TWO offenses.

[*kryogenix*]

brownsugar, you're full of shit and you know it.

The best thing is the mods can potentially abuse this. Don't want to commit abuse two times? That's ok! Have one of the new people do it for you! They'll gladly do it to prove their worth as a staff member and to compensate for their poor modding ability. Rinse, lather and repeat as many times as needed.

Oh wait, sorry I said that. Wouldn't want to give them any more ideas.

Mod punishment should be much more strict. They are given much more responsibility than a regular member and they should have more to lose as a result.

[*tripvertigo*]

how do you not agree with that?

when you devise a plan to murder someone and succeed you dont just get charged with murder. you get charged with conspiring to murder them and then actually doing it.

why shouldnt the same logic be applied here? you attack a member personally and because you are a mod, you also abuse your warning powers while doing so. thats two offenses. sorry.

[sadolakced acid]

Nice. When it's something you guys want to do you claim to speak for ju-sun and be able to make decision for him. When it's something you guys don't want to do you claim to have to ask Ju-Sun.

nice. something dick would be proud of.

[*kryogenix*]

tripvertigo, sadolakced acid:

Then I guess this is something the moderating team/members just don't agree upon.

It would be nice/interesting to have some guidelines set up. But of course, Jusun would have to have the final approval on this.

micron has been eschewing his responsibility on the site. I always argue him into a corner and his excuse is that it's not his responsibility. That's why he created that kryo thread, though none of the mods are willing to respond or answer questions, so it just goes to show you how ineffective the leadership is here.

[*tripvertigo*]

why would you even say that? you asked me if the mod should be dealt two punishments for one offense.

i said no, its two offenses.

this is obviously a conversation between me and you at this point, not the members and the mods.

im talking to YOU now.

[sadolakced acid]

as a member of the site the mod should get one punishment. As a mod they should get another punishment.

dick cheney kills a person, they gets impeached AND charged with murder.

[sadolakced acid]

is that part of the "play nice and don't hurt feelings" part?

[*tripvertigo*]

like are you completely dense?

if you are personally going after someone to warn them for no reason you are both personally attacking them and abusing your powers. what part of that is hard to understand? i didnt say anything about yelling.

[*tripvertigo*]

YES THIS IS HYPOTHETICAL.

for christ's sake.

what sadolakced said and what i said are two completely different things all together.


if you are warning someone for no reason, you obviously have a personal grudge against them and you are attacking them. i didnt say you are yelling at them or member bashing them... you are personally attacking them. HOW are you attacking them? You are warning them for no f**king reason.

thats two offenses. the attack as a whole and the abuse of your powers. attacking another member is a universal rule for both members and mods. abusing your powers is a separate offense.

two offenses.

two punishments.

i can not make myself any clearer.


edit://

so how does that contradict what sadolakced said? it's not even relevent to anything he said.

[*tripvertigo*]

i didnt f**king SAY that you disagreed or agreed. i just had to clarify what i was asking 3452908482039 times because you're being retarded or something.

edit:// you ASKED me if they should be punished twice for one offense. i said no. its two offenses. i elaborated. you did not f**king underestand the elaboration because you were too caught up with what the other guy said, which had nothing to do with my post whatsoever.

[*shotgunFUNERAL*]

why is it always suzzette that has to defend the staff team? it's apparent that she doesn't know everything and pulls stuff out of her ass half the time to make an excuse, but yet no one will come to her rescue.

[*tripvertigo*]

I just said the moderating staff as a whole and the members as a whole, obviously don't agree on this! Not me personally. This is based on actions that have been taken in the past.

AGAIN. when did i ask about the rest of the moderating staff or the other members? I was addressing YOU. YOU asked me a question. I answered YOUR question.

[*digitalfragrance*]

So what do you all propose if that were to happen? What other rules would you suggest? Let's take it to the big picture guys, instead of discussing scenario after scenario.

Stricter punishments are a great idea, btw.

[*shotgunFUNERAL*]

I am not pulling anything out of my ass. Trust me, I am one of the best people to ask. I don't need to be rescued. I have been handling the 4-5 of you by myself, just fine.

no, you're not. half-assed answers is not "handling" at all.

So what do you all propose if that were to happen? What other rules would you suggest? Let's take it to the big picture guys, instead of dscussing scenario after scenario.

ok, here's a big picture story...elba, spencer, robbi, and diana.

[*digitalfragrance*]

^x2 That's specific. If the whole point of this thread was to talk about that, I think you guys have lost a really good idea.

[*shotgunFUNERAL*]

ok, elba, spencer, robbi, and diana spammed, member-bashed, and whatever else one night. spencer and elba got taken down from official members and still have a warning from it while robbi and diana were put back on staff after a week. how is "not having moderating powers" a harsher punishment? because they're not in charge for once? or because they're superior to members and don't have the superiority while not on staff?

[*digitalfragrance*]

I know about that. That is in the past - let's be progressive and talk about the future to make it better.

[*shotgunFUNERAL*]

HOW THE FUCK IS IT THE PAST? we still have warning levels from it, so it can't be the past. stop overlooking things.

[*tripvertigo*]

are you serious right now suzette or are you just f**king with me? Because seriously, your idiocy in this thread is FREAKING me out. I know you arent this dumb. Do I have to spell this one out too?

YOU ASKED if the mod should be dealt two punishments for one crime.
i said no. its two crimes.

you said "thats something the mods and members dont agree upon"

THIS is where things went astray. I didnt ask about them. I was answering a question you asked me. I dont understand why you brought them up. This is a conversation between me and you.

Then you said that sado and i were contradicting each other. We were not. His post had nothing to do with mine. I didnt say anything about member bashing.

At this point I dont know what the f**k you are getting this shit from.

I simply answered a question that YOU ASKED ME.
I simply answered a question that YOU ASKED ME.
I simply answered a question that YOU ASKED ME.

And then you f**king changed the subject without even addressing the answer, and then said "i didnt say it was one offense."

What the f**k are you talking about? I didnt say you did. You ASKED ME.

[*digitalfragrance*]

It was done in the past. Your warning levels will go down. Lets talk about what you guys want to see from us NOW as a whole.

And can we all stop splitting hairs and talk about what you guys ideas are? I think this could be a great thing for cB.

[*shotgunFUNERAL*]

don't ask us to bring in the whole picture if you're going to overlook it.

[*digitalfragrance*]

I think that a new system for reprimandings would be in order, what would your approach be for a level one offense? What would you consider a level one offense?

Alright! Your on the same page I am.
Level one offense... member bashing? I'm gathering that from you guys posts.

[*shotgunFUNERAL*]

Instead of asking over and over again why your punishment was different.

maybe if someone gave us an answers we could. all suzzette can say is that their punishment was a lot harsher because they couldn't mod for a week. ok? and?

[*tripvertigo*]

i have read the thread.

are you seriously going to try and tell me you were on track the entire time when you ask me questions like:

"wait is this still a hypothetical question or did it actually happen?"

and "what do you mean attack? like member bashing? but sado said..."


like wtf is wrong with you right now? pass the bong along already and let someone else hit that shit

[*digitalfragrance*]

Do you think excessive spam between moderators and members is a problem, obviously they can't tell themselves to stop in the forums. That would be something they would have to force upon themselves. I think that overlooking moderators spamming is also something that doens't need to be worried about for moderators. Because they should know when it's not appropriate.

Mods bashing members.. Yes, but would that be doing it too much? Or just simply going after ONE person ONCE and trashing them?

Member Bashing: We need to be held to a high standard... so once, yes.

About Spamming: I think that's up to other moderators to keep themselves accountable.

[*digitalfragrance*]

True. So what would you consider to be a reasonable punishment? Since we both think that it is serious that the mods should be held to the highest standard. Obviously you can't say that they're demodded for life. I would think that since the punishment for members bashing other members, after a verbal warning is an increased warning level, for 2 weeks. I think that nothing should be less for the moderators. If they are found member bashing. They should lose their moderatorship for 2 weeks. With the only exception of it being lifted would be good behavior. I hope that we can both see that..

Moderators losing their moderatorship is a lot worse than official members losing their official member status.

I totally agree with that proposal. However, a member can't just accuse of member bashing. Imagine how many people would jump at the opportunity to demod someone right now. A PM must be sent to both Admins, and possibly head staff, and they can decide it is member basing or not.

It should be pretty obvious, anyway.

[*tripvertigo*]

how the f**k did i not clarify what i meant by attacking? i said 4 times that if you are warning someone for no reason, that is an attack in and of itself.

i dont even know who diana is...

[*digitalfragrance*]

So, trish, what do you propose as guidelines? I've heard Thomas, but what about you?

[*digitalfragrance*]

Well wasn't that Robbi's case... Anyways. What do you mean by, "a member can't just accuse (a moderator??) of member bashing." I don't get that sentance... Read it out-loud, you forgot something. A report can be sent to the administrators if a head staff is found member bashing, a report can be sent to head staff is people/design staff are found member bashing. It is an obvious situation when a mod is member bashing. However, this does need to be organized, so I think it's good even going over the things that seem unimportant.

Do you think that another level one offense would be mods disregarding important situations that are brought to them?

Whoops - when I editted I erased more than I meant to. Yes, that's what I meant. I mean that the decision just can't be made by one member. A decision that would disrobe a moderator of his powers needs to be decided by both the Admins. But reporting wouldn't work - it doesn't always go to the Admins... I've gotten reported posts before.

SO yes, we need to be organized about our ways of dealing out punishment.

And about disregarding important situations, that can be VERY subjective. What kind of situations are you talking about?

[*tripvertigo*]

people on the mod staff are both moderators and members and therefore should have to face consequences for both sides. A simple demodding is not enough.

Right now, to my understanding, a member can be suspended or muted while a moderator is demoted for the same offense. However, they are still allowed to post around the forums. It takes them one more offense to actually be suspended at that point, because now that they are demodded, if they get caught doing the same shit, your only choice is to suspend them.

That just isnt fair. You should be punished, A: for breaking a rule as a moderator, and B: for breaking a rule as a member.

[*tripvertigo*]

thats not what i said. not more seriously. they need to be punished through two different channels because they are members too, as well as moderators. if you violate the rules, you disqualify yourself from being a part of the moderating staff. its not really a punishment, so much as moderators are required to keep certain qualifications. if they dont have them, then they are not qualified to be mods.

it's like what someone said earlier. if a president murders someone, they are impeached and then they are tried for murder.

[*shotgunFUNERAL*]

That just isnt fair. You should be punished, A: for breaking a rule as a moderator, and B: for breaking a rule as a member.

exactly, but suzzette thinks that the mod having a week without moderating powers is harsh enough, imagine how that would boil over.

[*shotgunFUNERAL*]

I don't think that they should be tried twice for the same thing. Just a more harsh punishment should be set for when these moderators break the same rules as members.

we've definately been trying to say this all along.

[*Elba*]

You guys are full of shit

[*shotgunFUNERAL*]

yeah, i did say you said it was harsh enough because you obviously didn't see it fit to say that anything else could be proposed, other than the jump of the gun on our warning.

[*tripvertigo*]

as a mod, you are required to follow all the rules. if you break the rules and abuse your position while doing so, you disqualify yourself from being a mod. that's not a punishment. thats a disqualification.

THEN you need to be punished as a member.

Its just like an official member being warned and suspended. They dont get to keep their official member status after that..

I also dont think that moderators who break the rules or abuse their position should be allowed back into to the staff. thats unexceptable and quite frankly, absurd.

[*Elba*]

Someone answer me this: Did Robbi and Diana get a raised warning level?

[*shotgunFUNERAL*]

Someone answer me this: Did Robbi and Diana get a raised warning level?

are you kidding? what a stupid question. why would somebody of superiority get a raised warning level like the mere members here?

[*tripvertigo*]

Response to your edit: Do you think that it's justifyable that a mod is demodded on the spot. When a member would lose their OM status on the spot? Or do you think that something more serious should happpen to the mod?

Is that actually what happens? to my understanding, a member isnt just stripped of their OM status for doing somethign wrong. they're warned too, and/or muted orsuspended or whatever. They are stripped of their OM status BECAUSE they have been warned.


Same logic applies to a mod. they are demodded BECAUSE they have been warned/suspended.

[*Elba*]

I SERIOUSLY WANT AN ANSWER.

WTF, why did they all leave?

// Okay, I want to know why they didn't.

[*digitalfragrance*]

as a mod, you are required to follow all the rules. if you break the rules and abuse your position while doing so, you disqualify yourself from being a mod. that's not a punishment. thats a disqualification.

THEN you need to be punished as a member.

Its just like an official member being warned and suspended. They dont get to keep their official member status after that..

I also dont think that moderators who break the rules or abuse their position should be allowed back into to the staff. thats unexceptable and quite frankly, absurd.

All right, fair enough. But I do think that there should be a level of mercy. After a user is suspended, they are allowed to come back. How would that be different from a moderator? We are human, so we are prone to making mistakes. For small mistakes, should there not be mercy when letting them back on staff once de-modded?

[*Elba*]

I answered =]

I edited :) Haha.

Why were they not warned?

[*shotgunFUNERAL*]

All right, fair enough. But I do think that there should be a level of mercy. After a user is suspended, they are allowed to come back. How would that be different from a moderator? We are human, so we are prone to making mistakes. For small mistakes, should there not be mercy when letting them back on staff once de-modded?

we're only human, too. we made a mistake of spamming, but we're still warned with a 30 hour posting preview. what's the point?

and no, because like everyone, including you have said, they are held to a higher standard.

[*tripvertigo*]

if a mod is suspended from the forum, they can come back to the forum like the rest of the members after their suspension is over. just not back on the staff.

i dont think any mercy should be shown to the moderators. moderators do need stricter punishments because they have more power than the members. "with great power comes great responsibility" right?

However, if they Work their way back up to your good graces, then I would see them being allowed back onto the staff as acceptable. Just like an OM can be restored to their original status after showing the mods that they can play nice. i just dont think that a mod should immediately be let back onto staff after returning from a suspension.

[*Elba*]

Suzzette, you f**ked up. You should have warned not only Spencer and I, but also Robbi and Diana. If Kiera or Rebecca would have later decided that they were going to give them special treatment because they are moderators, then they could have lowered their warning level.

[*digitalfragrance*]

But we do allow a measure of leniency with Members, no?

[*shotgunFUNERAL*]

NO ONE GIVES A FLYING FUCK ABOUT YOUR GOD DAMN CODES! SHUT THE HELL UP!

[*SinfullySweet*]

NO ONE GIVES A FLYING FUCK ABOUT YOUR GOD DAMN CODES! SHUT THE HELL UP!

DITTO.

[*Elba*]

So the community guidelines, or whatever, don't apply to the moderators?

[*shotgunFUNERAL*]

Yeah, they do apply to moderators, Elba.

i know we've gone over this, but it surely does not appear so.

[*Elba*]

Then why weren't they warned? They're members of this community, right?

[*shotgunFUNERAL*]

^
both of which are always m.i.a. when this stuff comes around. how convient.

[*Elba*]

I'm sorry Suzzette. I really wish Kiera or Rebecca was on.

[*Elba*]

Jusun just signed onto AIM. Someone get him in here.

[*shotgunFUNERAL*]

Well Jusun leaves most of this stuff up to the staff (imo) Rebecca is moving atm. And I don't know about Kiear... most of the time she is on at this time.. I'm sure she wouldnt punish you for PM'ing her and asking her about it

they don't punish you for p/ming them? wow.

anyway, by time they get around to it, it won't matter. this is going to keep going either way.

[*shotgunFUNERAL*]

what's his aim? i don't want this to be a one-sided argument.

[*Elba*]

miron2k

[*tripvertigo*]

edit:// wrong thread.

[*Elba*]

Wow, I should tell him to reduce my warning level.

[*shotgunFUNERAL*]

can we just make a chat like we did last time something had to be discussed with jusun?

[HoodNigga]

LOL at this thread. I honestly don't see how people can get mad on the internet.

I could care less what happens with mod punishment. Whether you demod them or do nothing at all.

I could care less if my warning level is raised for months (which it was) or if I get suspended.

But if yall were going to do something to the mods, the person you guys demod, let me take their spots temporarily so I can sit at my throne.

[*ersatz*]

Just a sidenoteeeee...

At the beginning of the thread, I think the misunderstanding was that it was the first offense...like the mod is demodded for a bit the FIRST time a punishment has to be discussed. If a punishment for them has to be discussed again...that would be grounds for a demotion for me (like Suzzette said, we were both bringing up demotion in that other incident, so I may be thinking tougher than the other staff members, but whatever). But...if that was not what was going wonky, then ignore me.

[Spirited Away]

Response to your edit: Do you think that it's justifyable that a mod is demodded on the spot. When a member would lose their OM status on the spot? Or do you think that something more serious should happpen to the mod?

A moderator makes certain guarantees/promises when they apply, don't they? If they fail such guarantees shouldn't they own up to them?

A moderator is on a different level than OMs and members. Therefore, they should be punished on a differently level.

[*mzkandi*]

I'm sorry Suzzette. I really wish Kiera or Rebecca was on.

Hello! I'm here now, I apologize for the wait.

Our discussion about what to do about the Robbi and Diana situation went from possible demotion and immediately to giving them a week off (suspension). I went over the thread again and towards the end no discussion of increasing their warning was mentioned, even though if I do recall correctly it was briefly discussed in the beginning because it is what we did when we suspended Nicki. I think (at least on my part) the increased warning was overlooked because I hadn't noticed myself until it was mentioned in this thread.

[*shotgunFUNERAL*]

I think (at least on my part) the increased warning was overlooked because I hadn't noticed myself until it was mentioned in this thread.

the whole thing was overlooked.

[*mzkandi*]

Yes, I wasn't the one who actually put them to official member status, Rebecca did. Our (head/admins/mentors) discussion toward the end just gear around "Ok, they are going to be suspended for a week, after a week if they want to come back then they are welcome to rejoin". The discussion on actually having a warning accompany that was lost amongst all of the discussion how on to handlethe whole thing. I'm going to recheck what was said to see.

[*shotgunFUNERAL*]

so, if they're allowed to begin modding again after a week, i, too, should be able to have back my official membership to avoid flood control. say it's a different situation all you guys want because it's all i've heard, but it's unfair for the people who are referred to as "role models" to be able to resume a position of power after only a week, while they participated in the same thing we did and we still have a warning. if they are trusted with power, they are trusted not to abuse it, and when they do, they should be demodded for more than a week...or at least as long as the other people involved.

i don't give a shit if it's "harsher" because they aren't able to do any moderation things for a week, but it was their choice to become involved and they should take things accordingly ESPECIALLY since they are an example of the rules.

[jilianceleste]

Drawn and quartered? xD I'll bet whoever it was that warned you hypothetically, was probably mistaken if you don't know what for.

Maybe just let it rest a bit, or talk to another Mod who may be able to make sense of the situation. :]

[sadolakced acid]

It should be a tradition that if your modding powers are suspended, you resign your position.

Because seriously, if you've abused your power, you're not fit to be a mod anymore. Have the decency to step down.

Hell, I stepped down because I knew i wasn't going to be able to be as active as being a mod required. It's a common decency. If you're not doing the job well, vacate the position so someone better qualified can fill in.

[*Elba*]

I sure wish Robbi and Diana would reply to this topic.

[*shotgunFUNERAL*]

i'd actually like to know if our punishment was actually brought up in the diana/robbi demodding stages.

[*Kathleen*]

The fact that some members of the mod staff need punishment for anything at all tells you a lot about the direction this forum is going in.

Things were much better when I was admin.

[*Elba*]

The fact that some members of the mod staff need punishment for anything at all tells you a lot about the direction this forum is going in.

Things were much better when I was admin.

Heck yeah they were!

Not like I was around at that time, haha. I miss you Kathleen

[*Kathleen*]

Heck yeah they were!

Not like I was around at that time, haha. I miss you Kathleen

Stfu.

[sadolakced acid]

hell yea!

[*tripvertigo*]

PUT THE OLD REGIME BACK!

Stfu.

Looks like you just got owned.

[*Elba*]

Your mom.

[*Kathleen*]

Your mom.

That's creative, Elba. How much did you spend on your nose job?

[*Elba*]

That's creative, Elba. How much did you spend on your nose job?

I already told you how much I spent when I got it three years ago

[*Kathleen*]

I already told you how much I spent when I got it three years ago

Just shut up now, please.

[*brownsugar*]

Alright, can we please get back on topic.

[sadolakced acid]

you guys are ignoring the topic.

[*brownsugar*]

Really? I've been discussing it the whole way through, and agreeing that we need to form guidelines and continue the discussion.

What are you talking about?