Minimum Wage Options

[*Steven*]

It's being raised, I think it's a dumb idea. What are your thoughts on the matter?

The minimum wage in Texas is 5.15$/hr. They're raising it to 7.25$/hr over the next 3 summers. I think that's kind of, unnecessary. For one, the majority of people making minimum wage are young high-school students etc. They don't stay making this wage for very long, and it's typically a starter job in which they make this money. By raising the minimum wage, no one (imo) benefits. The prices of goods go up because the employers are having to pay their employees more money and don't want to lose profit. Because of this, every day goods prices have gone up and people who don't benefit from the wage increase have to pay a larger sum of their salary/paycheck towards those every day goods. The people who are getting a higher wage (assuming they were working minimum) don't earn any more money in comparison to what they can buy. Sure the dollar amount is higher, but they have to spend more.

[xchrystizzle]

I don't think it's so dumb. but then I do...

it's good for states like California or Florida, where there are immigrants (I'm talking about the legal ones) who can't get a college education. they work hard to support their families that are in AND out of the US. it depends on the state and who's the majority working at minimum wage.

I think $7.25 is overkill. $6.50 should be good enough, like you said, it'll be the others that end up paying more while their pay remains the same...

[*Steven*]

But even if the people making min wage get the raise, they won't benefit. It'll be the same for them because of all the increased prices *shrug* I researched somewhere and it said that somewhere around 2% of adults (I forget what age they used) made minimum wage.

[falsetigerlimbs]

Minimum wage in CA is already at $7.50, and even that isn't enough to support yourself with unless you live in a really cheap area.
What you said about minimum wage workers mainly being young people is a good point, but the increase in minimum wage also affects people who have higher wages, because their salary will often increase too. I got a pay rise this year after minimum wage went up.
I think that minimum wage is necessary. Yes, the prices of things are going up, so they're having to pay more, but surely that means that minimum wage DOES need to be increased so that people can afford the climbing prices?
The price of everything is going up all over the place, so salaries need to be raised to keep up. I don't think it's about them getting a "benefit," it's more like they NEED the extra money to be able to keep their quality of living the same.

[*Steven*]

Yes I understand all of that but the point I'm trying to make is that the businesses aren't going to leave their prices where they are and lose money due to increased minimum wage.

[BOOGERSHAHA]

i never dabble in the debate forum (and i'm barely debating, in my opinion), butttttt...

there's a solid economic argument that raising the minimum wage is not good. it leaves more people unemployed.

let's say the minimum wage is raised. employers are annoyed because their expenses are higher. so with the higher minimum wage, they'll want to hire "better," "smarter" people to do the job. makes sense right? if you're shelling out more money for employees, you'd want better quality.

so basically the "dumber" people who were supposed to benefit from minimum wage are actually screwed because people don't want to hire them.

aaand i'm out.

[*Steven*]

^Yeah, there's that. Also I didn't even mention issues of fairness for say people that worked for a year at ap lace and are earning say 6.15/hr then all of a sudden there are other people who just started making the same due to min wage increases. Resentment maybe? Or the company will have to pay them more as well.

There's the issue of unemployment due to the company not wanting to pay that much to employees, but there's also the issue of jacking up prices to keep the current employees.

[falsetigerlimbs]

Yes I understand all of that but the point I'm trying to make is that the businesses aren't going to leave their prices where they are and lose money due to increased minimum wage.

But isn't that obvious...?

The companies don't really have any choice. Everything's rising. It's called inflation.

I don't understand what you're trying to debate?

[*Steven*]

I'm saying raising the minimum wage is pointless and doesn't help anyone. If they're going to raise it anyways why spend all the time and legislature raising the wage.

[kimmytree]

I think it needed to be raised. Here in Florida its only $6.70 something. And there are people besides high school/college students who are working for that kind of salary. How on earth is a person supposed to survive on that? Right now I'm only being paid minimum wage... I couldnt imagine having to survive without my parents on such a low salary.

As prices go up, pay needs to go up as well. We cant just watch prices on goods and the cost of living inflate and not raise the minimum wage. Adults who work for minimum wage are already poor enough as it is... not giving them a raise to cope with inflation would just make them even poorer.

[*Steven*]

You shouldn't have to live on minimum wage. You should be making much more, even without a college background, due to age/experience. I know they prefer older people for sales over young people. I can find the exact amount, but I believe it's somewhere around 2% of adults making minimum wage. That's 2% of the population living on minimum wage. Instead of helping out those 2% (who probably deserve what they got, but not saying all do) let's raise the minimum wage so everyone has to spend more to help those 2% !!!! /sarcasm

[*Michelle*]

Steven, you just like to make arguments that you know you'll win on.




I think it's bad, b/c then the prices of Ugly Dolls will go up, and then I'll be devastated. :[

[*Steven*]

Well why would I make one that I'd lose ^^?

I like to see if someone has really good counter-arguments, but meh.

[LadyXTor]

I agree, raising the minimum wage is actually hurting the people that it's supposed to be helping. It's going to be sad how many small businesses are going to be shut down and how a lot more people are going to be out of work.

[Simba]

Just get a better job, ninjas. =P

[Jeng]

I get minimum wage STILL and I've been working at Mcd;s for almost friggen 2 years, they don't raise it, they do it when they have to. So I would want to get a wage, an increase.

[Spirited Away]

First, minimum wage must adjust to the rising cost of living. For example, as the price of gas increases (as it has been), the cost of everyday business operations increases making goods and services more costly to consumers. The phrase here is that the current minimum wage "has no purchasing power". If you can imagine, the equilibrium is off, and rising minimum wage makes a good parity.

Second, there is a long term benefit to employers not hiring less skilled workers due to high cost of labor. Guess what? People will be forced/encouraged to become more productive and education has higher value. All in all, if a society is productive and educated, it is better off.

Third, oh wait... I don't remember. What's another concern about minimum wage do you all have?

EDIT---

I agree, raising the minimum wage is actually hurting the people that it's supposed to be helping. It's going to be sad how many small businesses are going to be shut down and how a lot more people are going to be out of work.

Sad short term, happy for long term. Economically speaking, if a business barely makes payroll, it is already in trouble. Anything can make it close; a competing business, for example. Maybe these business owners will invest in something they can do better (make more money) than the business they're currently in.

[lojay]

I think that with living expenses rising, the wages should rise as well. Not saying I'm supporting that living expenses be raised, but I think you should be able to afford things. For example, my family is well off, so we don't have any money problems, but if we did, then my mom would be screwed. She has worked at the same place for like 15 years now? And she is pretty much the best worker there, but hardly ever gets a raise. Even though the living expenses have risen, she has to deal with the wages she gets. Companies aren't offering more money even though living expenses have gone up. Where is the compensation? If minimum wage raises, shouldn't corporate raise their wages too?

As for high school kids with minimum wage jobs...eh? Minimum wage in NJ is $7.15/hour as of right now. But personally, it is easy to find a job that pays more. I easily found a job that pays 8.50 an hour and another that pays 9. Even so, most people can bargain their pay higher when getting a job. I guess I agree that no one benefits by raising minimum wage, considering that economy is always raising prices... but I also think that not many people actually get paid minimum wage. There's always a way around it.

[Spirited Away]

I think that with living expenses rising, the wages should rise as well. Not saying I'm supporting that living expenses be raised, but I think you should be able to afford things. For example, my family is well off, so we don't have any money problems, but if we did, then my mom would be screwed. She has worked at the same place for like 15 years now? And she is pretty much the best worker there, but hardly ever gets a raise. Even though the living expenses have risen, she has to deal with the wages she gets. Companies aren't offering more money even though living expenses have gone up. Where is the compensation? If minimum wage raises, shouldn't corporate raise their wages too?

You brought up an excellent point. An example of a profession with a pretty static wage is teaching. It is very hard to get a raise. Their general pay was increase only recently.

[NoSex]

Your off on a few things and you're missing a few points, Steve.

First of all, adults (20+) make up about 70.8% of low-wage earners who would be directly affected by the wage increase. Not two percent, not a minority, but a majority of low-wage (near minimum wage) workers are adults. [1] So, the affected parties are parties which need money. Many of these people have families which need support and which fall below the current poverty threshold.
Secondly, you are completely ignoring the real term decrease in the value of minimum wage due to inflation. The minimum wage today is actually lower, in real terms, than it was in 1968. Today's minimum wage is merely 65% of the 1968 wage: This is a problem which needs to be addressed. The cost of living has risen, and we're actually making less than we were four decades ago! We need to adjust for these economic changes and return purchasing power to the minimum wage. [2]
Further, you are ignoring a history of wage increases which never saw economic downfall or trouble. In fact, our most dramatic wage increases never negatively effected the job market. Employment continued to rise, and business wasn't significantly hurt.
And, lastly, you are ignoring the dynamic of supply and demand. Sure, cost is a factor, but prices will meet at an equilibrium which will be adjusted appropriately and accordingly. The cost may lower the supply, but demand will rise which will feed the economy and support a greater supply in effect.

Really, I use to be in the same boat you were, but when recognizing the increasing gap between those in the lower income-earning brackets and those in the middle class and wealthier classes, when you realize that people are still under the poverty threshold despite working full-time, and when understanding the eroded value of our current minimum wage it really only makes sense to support an adjusted and gradual increase in our wages. It'll stimulate the economy and help those who can barely feed themselves.

[retaliate]

Just get a better job, ninjas. =P

Exactly

The minimum wage isn't created for you to live on, most people who are making minimum wage aren't full time employees.

Raising the minimum wage wouldn't necessarily raise the cost of goods, given that most people with a steady job are legally allowed to request a cost of living salary increase each year which is like 3%?

[xxpimpjuice1227x]

well for California, min. wage is $7.50 and trust me its not even enough, California is EXPENSIVE period.

[*Steven*]

NoSex, I'll respond further in the morning, but in case anyone is checking up on this tonight, this is one of the charts I have used to back arguments in the past.

[kimmytree]

^ That's funny. There's just as many adult women working for minimum wage as 16 - 24 year olds, according to your chart. I think that proves my point, that the minimum wage does need to be increased. Most adult women that are working for such a low wage isnt working just for the heck of it - they're doing it to support their family. The current minimum wage isnt enough to do that, especially if a woman is a single mother. For someone working for minimum wage and working full time, that's only like $250 - $300 a week, and just over $1,000 a month. And then only $12,000 a year. That's sad.

[*Steven*]

1.7% of the total population, 25 years and over, make minimum wage. ONE POINT SEVEN. That's a considerable minority. Women 25 and over, 2.3%.

What exactly is your point? Why does it need to be increased, when all it will do is create associated prices to rise?

[Spirited Away]

1.7% of the total population, 25 years and over, make minimum wage. ONE POINT SEVEN. That's a considerable minority. Women 25 and over, 2.3%.

What exactly is your point? Why does it need to be increased, when all it will do is create associated prices to rise?

This is all the time I have for, but per your question...

Using your statistics and your logic, with respect to the rising cost of living, that "considerable minority" group will not be able to buy anything if their pay does not adjust to the steady increasing cost of living. Consequently, businesses will lose that "considerable minority" group as consumers because they are unable to afford anymore than dollar store goods, fast food services, and the cheapest produce. All in all, a bad thing for the economy seeing how there is a "considerable" amount of people in that group.

The cost to run the business will rise, no argument there, but it rises along with many other factors. More importantly, how can you run a business when you're losing customers becaue they can't afford your products/services?

[illriginal]

It's being raised, I think it's a dumb idea. What are your thoughts on the matter?

The minimum wage in Texas is 5.15$/hr. They're raising it to 7.25$/hr over the next 3 summers. I think that's kind of, unnecessary. For one, the majority of people making minimum wage are young high-school students etc. They don't stay making this wage for very long, and it's typically a starter job in which they make this money. By raising the minimum wage, no one (imo) benefits. The prices of goods go up because the employers are having to pay their employees more money and don't want to lose profit. Because of this, every day goods prices have gone up and people who don't benefit from the wage increase have to pay a larger sum of their salary/paycheck towards those every day goods. The people who are getting a higher wage (assuming they were working minimum) don't earn any more money in comparison to what they can buy. Sure the dollar amount is higher, but they have to spend more.

Is this your personal opinion? I think you're missing the bigger picture of things. It seems like this is more personal than it is general. But please enlighten me

[*Steven*]

Is this your personal opinion? I think you're missing the bigger picture of things. It seems like this is more personal than it is general. But please enlighten me

Yes it is my personal opinion, hence the "I think" portion of the post.
What exactly are you arguing? I've posted my opinion plenty in this thread, and would like to ask what you in fact are trying to argue.

This is all the time I have for, but per your question...

Using your statistics and your logic, with respect to the rising cost of living, that "considerable minority" group will not be able to buy anything if their pay does not adjust to the steady increasing cost of living. Consequently, businesses will lose that "considerable minority" group as consumers because they are unable to afford anymore than dollar store goods, fast food services, and the cheapest produce. All in all, a bad thing for the economy seeing how there is a "considerable" amount of people in that group.

The cost to run the business will rise, no argument there, but it rises along with many other factors. More importantly, how can you run a business when you're losing customers becaue they can't afford your products/services?

Err I think I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to say. Are you saying that if the minority can't afford to live off that wage it hurts the economy as a whole?

One of my biggest issues w/ raising minimum wage is that it's more aimed at a small group of people(in my opinion), as most people don't stay near making minimum wage for very long at all. Minimum wage, in my opinion, is something you make at your first jobs, when you're in high school or college, and are looking more for some money to pay back loans as you go or spending money. If I (with only a high school degree at the moment) can get a job starting at 1.35$/hr over minimum wage, as my first job with no prior experience, I don't see why others can't. I have a job now paying 2.85$/hr above and I've only completed a year of college (and I've had this job sine before college).

[Spirited Away]

Yes it is my personal opinion, hence the "I think" portion of the post.
What exactly are you arguing? I've posted my opinion plenty in this thread, and would like to ask what you in fact are trying to argue.
Err I think I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to say. Are you saying that if the minority can't afford to live off that wage it hurts the economy as a whole?

One of my biggest issues w/ raising minimum wage is that it's more aimed at a small group of people(in my opinion), as most people don't stay near making minimum wage for very long at all. Minimum wage, in my opinion, is something you make at your first jobs, when you're in high school or college, and are looking more for some money to pay back loans as you go or spending money. If I (with only a high school degree at the moment) can get a job starting at 1.35$/hr over minimum wage, as my first job with no prior experience, I don't see why others can't. I have a job now paying 2.85$/hr above and I've only completed a year of college (and I've had this job sine before college).

Because of exploitation. Believe me, without minimum wage, plenty of people would be making $1/hr; that's what sets us apart from a number of other countries. With minimum wage there are still a "considerable" number of people who still make minimum wage.

The reason is simple and I cannot take credit for this because I heard it in my econ class a couple of years ago. Our society isn't fully productive. Minimum wage is targeted towards the least productive people in our society. In other words, "minimum productivity" gives you "minimum wage". This low productive group consists of high schools students, drop outs... the likes.

Sure you can find a job with higher pay that the minimum, but remember that not everyone is as productive. Each job requires different skills and more than likely, if you're being paid minimum wage, your job doesn't take as much effort as higher paying jobs.

As to my previous post, I'm saying that if minimum wage does not keep up with rising cost of living, then that will hurt the economy as a whole... equilibrium would be off.

[*Steven*]

I see I see.

I hate to be dense, but why should we raise the minimum wage for people who take no incentive to better themselves -.-? I know there are always exceptions, but if people aren't doing anything to try to earn a higher wage, why should everyone else suffer on their behalf?

There are also jobs that you can take that pay you pretty good money and help you with your schooling (such as UPS). If people really want to better their lives, it's not outside of their grasp. Again, I'm not including families who have to work just to support their family in a nasty poverty-like state.

[*Steven*]

I hate to be an ass about it, but I think it's kind of dumb to try and raise a family when you don't have the money to support it. That's not to say that they shouldn't have kids, but IMO they should get a better living and income before they decide on children.

[Spirited Away]

I see I see.

1) I hate to be dense, but why should we raise the minimum wage for people who take no incentive to better themselves -.-? I know there are always exceptions, but if people aren't doing anything to try to earn a higher wage, why should everyone else suffer on their behalf?

2) There are also jobs that you can take that pay you pretty good money and help you with your schooling (such as UPS). If people really want to better their lives, it's not outside of their grasp. Again, I'm not including families who have to work just to support their family in a nasty poverty-like state.

1. I don't think you're dense, I just don't think you're looking at this from every angle. Not everyone works at the same level because not everyone owns the same sets of skills, and what's more, not every business requires the same level of education/skills. Why would you, as a restaurant owner, wants to pay a bus-boy higher than minimum wage? If you're saying that the bus-boy can find a better job, I disagree. If everyone can find great jobs, then why do these lower paying jobs exsist?

2. That's pretty idealistic. I was raised to believe that everyone can be at their best and get what they deserve if they try their hardest, so I agree with you on some level. However, by experience and observing humanity at work, I also believe that life sucks for many people.

Also, how many companies out there can give great benefits like USPS? Are there enough for all "considerable" amount of people you stated earlier?

A good friend of mine graduated college magna cum laude with a B.A. in Marketing. She couldn't find a decent job for two years! TWO YEARS. She got stuck working at the YMCA with me getting $7.25/hour, keeping in mind that she has a marketing degree. I was there with her every step of the way when she applies for jobs, I know how hard it is for people to find jobs sometimes.

Not everyone can get great paying jobs; not everyone has the opportunity to go back to school; not everyone can live life the way they want to live it.

I hate to be an ass about it, but I think it's kind of dumb to try and raise a family when you don't have the money to support it. That's not to say that they shouldn't have kids, but IMO they should get a better living and income before they decide on children.

I agree with you, but bad things happen to both good and irresponsible people, I'm sure you know this.

[*ersatz*]

It's hard to get a job that pays well without a college education and it's hard to do that when one doesn't make enough money to pay for college. Like, say, me. So, without the increase, it would be pretty hard to even GET to the good job.

[Spirited Away]

'zactly.

[*karmakiller*]

The price of living is increasing, so the money we're making should increase too, right?

So do you think that if they don't increase the amount of money people are making that goods won't cost more? (Because if people can't afford the goods, the people making the goods will have no other choice but to lower their prices?)



To comment on the fact that people shouldn't have children until they have the finacial needs to meet what it takes to care for children... there's lots of divorces that happen and lots of single parents. When my mother was on her own with us kids living in a crappy hotel she couldn't get a good job because of her pre-exsisting medical problems. It wasn't far that places didn't want to hire her and a minimum wage job didn't cut it.

[RAWRstephishere]

it's good for states like California or Florida, where there are immigrants (I'm talking about the legal ones) who can't get a college education. they work hard to support their families that are in AND out of the US. it depends on the state and who's the majority working at minimum wage.

Half the population is Texas is illegal immigrants..
Thats probably why its so low here.

[Spirited Away]

Half the population is Texas is illegal immigrants..
Thats probably why its so low here.

I think you're kidding, but I'm not sure so ignore me if you are.

Employer of illegal immigrants do not need to pay them minimum wage. They can pay them a nickle an hour if they want.

Our minimum wage is lower than states like California and New York is because our cost of living is lower than theirs.

[*Steven*]

Fae do you live in Texas?

And I find it very hard to believe that half Texas' population is comprised of illegal immigrants.

[RAWRstephishere]

Half the population is Texas is illegal immigrants..
Thats probably why its so low here.

Yes, that was sarcasm.

[Spirited Away]

^ haha.. okay.

Yea, Steven, I live in Houston.

[*Steven*]

Oo didn't know that. I live in houston too haha. Come to think of it, you might have mentioned it earlier and I just forgot? Oh well.

Whereabouts lol? I'd ask in PM but mine aren't working -.-

[Spirited Away]

Northwest area. Around the Beltway and 290. You?

[*Steven*]

Sugar Land, southwest

[Spirited Away]

Ah, you rich punk (j/k). I work in sugar land sometimes. near first colony.

anyway... good night.