Don't Ask, Don't Tell, Homosexuals in the Military Options

[Simba]

Openly gay people are banned from the military. However, you can be "in the closet" and still serve, as long as you don't reveal your sexual orientation. The "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy is often mentioned in these sort of debates.

If a soldier's homosexuality does happen to be revealed, however, they are to immediately be discharged.

There have been some unfair discharges, however. In one case, one homosexual soldier was harassed with e-mails, and eventually, this anonymous person e-mailed the whole battalion, warning them that there was a homosexual soldier among them. His homosexuality was eventually revealed, and was immediately discharged. His roll in the military was an Arabic translator, which are extremely helpful to have, and not very easy to find.

People supporting the discharging of homosexuals testify that they cannot allow such immoral behaviour within the military. They also say that it is detrimental to the military to have such "unique" individuals (where the goal is to have cohesive groups of soldiers that are preferably as closely alike as possible).

Discuss, please.

[kimmytree]

Not being able to be gay in the military is total bull. If a person wants to serve their country, then why should their sexuality matter? Having gay men and straight men around each other is no different than having men and women serving aside each other - something that is allowed.

Who says its immoral... The Bible??? Sheesh, what ever happened to separation of church and state?

[Simba]

Not being able to be gay in the military is total bull. If a person wants to serve their country, then why should their sexuality matter? Having gay men and straight men around each other is no different than having men and women serving aside each other - something that is allowed.

Who says its immoral... The Bible??? Sheesh, what ever happened to separation of church and state?

That's almost exactly the first things that went through my mind.

[kimmytree]

It's not like straight soilders would be forced to bathe or room with them. Awhile back my American History teacher said that gays shouldnt be in the military... because then they would have the health benefits. And it would end up costing us more to pay for their healthcare, since all gay supposedly have aids and std's.

My God, if they're willing to risk their lives to serve their country... who cares what kind of medical bills they rack up.

[OhSnap]

People supporting the discharging of homosexuals testify that they cannot allow such immoral behaviour within the military.

Anyone is capable of having "immoral behavior" and they shouldn't classify homosexuals like that. I think that's bs and it's just another type of unfair treatment. I really wonder how the future will be if we have more conflicts like this.

[Simba]

Anyone is capable of having "immoral behavior" and they shouldn't classify homosexuals like that. I think that's bs and it's just another type of unfair treatment. I really wonder how the future will be if we have more conflicts like this.

At one point, it was actually supposed to go that it wouldn't matter that they were homosexual up until they started exhibiting sexuality (like everybody else).

Except, they never followed through to that.

[kimmytree]

I think Clinton came up with the policy during his second term. Could that be because Republicans have had control of Congress/Senate since then (up until now)?

[*steve330*]

I think it's stupid too. However, you have to keep in mind a lot of what goes on in the military is heavily disciplined and moral is kept under close watch (ignore Iraq). Some people can be homophobic (closed minded asshats) and cause unrest etc, and that's the last thing the military needs happening. I mean while I'm not supporting their banning of openly gay people from the military, I AM saying that we have no need to intervene in the military.

I've seen a shitload of military bases and been in a heavily military immersed environment for about 4 years of my life (ROTC). The military runs fine the way it is now, and the media and civilians need not control any single part of it.

[cori-catastrophe]

that's bull. if someone is willing to sacrafice(sp?), what does their orientation matter? jeez. this just...argh.

[*karmakiller*]

I don't think it should matter if they are or are not homosexual. It shouldn't matter, just because you're a homosexual doesn't mean that you aren't as tough as straight people.

However, I don't think they should be throwing it around if they are a homosexual, because it really doesn't have anything to do with their job. If they are openly gay, a lot of times that will make them the subject of a lot of harassment, so I don't think that there will be gays telling everyone in the military their status and wearing rainbows on their uniforms any time soon.

I know people will disagree with me, but it's true. I've heard stories that I never really wanted to

I guess what I'm trying to say is, if you were gay and in the military why would be throwing it out there and showing your gay pride? They'd get harassed so badly and, like I already said, it has nothing to do with their job (unless if they get lonely in the desert or something and start checking another soldier out).

[Simba]

I don't think it should matter if they are or are not homosexual. It shouldn't matter, just because you're a homosexual doesn't mean that you aren't as tough as straight people.

However, I don't think they should be throwing it around if they are a homosexual, because it really doesn't have anything to do with their job. If they are openly gay, a lot of times that will make them the subject of a lot of harassment, so I don't think that there will be gays telling everyone in the military their status and wearing rainbows on their uniforms any time soon.

I know people will disagree with me, but it's true. I've heard stories that I never really wanted to

Nah, I agree with you completely. It's the same with women. You're not supposed to be going around seducing other men (or women, for that matter).

The thing is, as soon as someone finds out you're gay, you're out.

They'd get harassed so badly and, like I already said, it has nothing to do with their job (unless if they get lonely in the desert or something and start checking another soldier out).

That's some Brokeback Mountain ish right there.

[laxumaster8]

yea, the whole issue is weird...everyone should be accepted no matter what

[trulyandnever]

Thats gay... (no pun intended).
Why should their sexual orientation mattter, theyre there to serve their country- not pick up guys

[magicfann]

gay people are proven to be less effective fighters

[kimmytree]

^ Mind backing that statement up? lol.

[*inspiration*]

http://threepanelsoul.com/view.php?date=2007-05-30

Homosexuality is becoming less taboo as time progresses, and because we are the future, things will start to change (if they haven't already).

[Ington]

This is not a bible matter, nor an issue of morality. The entire don't ask don't tell policy makes perfect sense.

Some people are not comfortable changing, showering, sleeping, and living with homosexuals. If a person is openly gay, not only would he make others uncomfortable, but he would call for unwanted attention to himself. What good would that do for anyone?

Homosexuality itself should not be an issue in the military, but the discussion of it or confession of it should be controlled.

Its the military, not your mother's house. Life is not fair, and the military isn't there to make you feel good about yourself. If a soldier feels proud enough to absolutely have to display his sexuality to other soldiers despite the obvious fact that it makes some uncomfortable, he should be responsible for its circumstances. If you want to serve your country, serve it. Confessing yourself has nothing to do with serving, and if it lowers productivity, it should be avoided for the sake of serving peacefully.

Nah, I agree with you completely. It's the same with women. You're not supposed to be going around seducing other men (or women, for that matter).

But do women sleep, shower, and so on with men? They have their own quarters. Gay's don't, they stay with the rest of the men at all times. Besides, its not the homosexual's who'd have the problems, it would be the straight men who'd feel uncomfortable soaping their ass around someone who could be potentially attracted to them.

[kitcatblac]

i kno this is a stupid question n i kno that people get offended often by it but im curious are u born gay or is it a coice

[Ington]

Oh God, no. Please, don't let this topic spiral down into 'choice or not a choice' again.

Its been posted. Search?

[*MyMichelle*]

While I disagree with the fact that homosexuals that are revealed are instantly discharged, I think that having a policy of keeping your sexuality, whether it be homo or hetero, is better for all.

Allowing homosexuals to serve does not, in any way, mean that there is "immoral behavior" either. It's the straight man's choice to have butt-sex with a gay man if it happens.

[Simba]

Some people are not comfortable changing, showering, sleeping, and living with homosexuals. If a person is openly gay, not only would he make others uncomfortable, but he would call for unwanted attention to himself. What good would that do for anyone?

Homosexuality itself should not be an issue in the military, but the discussion of it or confession of it should be controlled.

Its the military, not your mother's house. Life is not fair, and the military isn't there to make you feel good about yourself. If a soldier feels proud enough to absolutely have to display his sexuality to other soldiers despite the obvious fact that it makes some uncomfortable, he should be responsible for its circumstances. If you want to serve your country, serve it. Confessing yourself has nothing to do with serving, and if it lowers productivity, it should be avoided for the sake of serving peacefully.

But do women sleep, shower, and so on with men? They have their own quarters. Gay's don't, they stay with the rest of the men at all times. Besides, its not the homosexual's who'd have the problems, it would be the straight men who'd feel uncomfortable soaping their ass around someone who could be potentially attracted to them.

While I disagree with the fact that homosexuals that are revealed are instantly discharged, I think that having a policy of keeping your sexuality, whether it be homo or hetero, is better for all.

Allowing homosexuals to serve does not, in any way, mean that there is "immoral behavior" either. It's the straight man's choice to have butt-sex with a gay man if it happens.

Agreed and agreed.

[cori-catastrophe]

This is not a bible matter, nor an issue of morality. The entire don't ask don't tell policy makes perfect sense.

Some people are not comfortable changing, showering, sleeping, and living with homosexuals. If a person is openly gay, not only would he make others uncomfortable, but he would call for unwanted attention to himself. What good would that do for anyone?

Homosexuality itself should not be an issue in the military, but the discussion of it or confession of it should be controlled.

Its the military, not your mother's house. Life is not fair, and the military isn't there to make you feel good about yourself. If a soldier feels proud enough to absolutely have to display his sexuality to other soldiers despite the obvious fact that it makes some uncomfortable, he should be responsible for its circumstances. If you want to serve your country, serve it. Confessing yourself has nothing to do with serving, and if it lowers productivity, it should be avoided for the sake of serving peacefully.

But do women sleep, shower, and so on with men? They have their own quarters. Gay's don't, they stay with the rest of the men at all times. Besides, its not the homosexual's who'd have the problems, it would be the straight men who'd feel uncomfortable soaping their ass around someone who could be potentially attracted to them.

who's to say that the gay men are comfortable with the straight men? it's just pure discrimination against individuality.

[magicfann]

gay ppl suck

[cori-catastrophe]

gay ppl suck

offensive much? seriously. take other people's belifs into concern rather than making yourself look like a dunce.

[XRosesXAreXBlack...]

Not being able to be gay in the military is total bull. If a person wants to serve their country, then why should their sexuality matter? Having gay men and straight men around each other is no different than having men and women serving aside each other - something that is allowed.

Who says its immoral... The Bible??? Sheesh, what ever happened to separation of church and state?

I agree completely.

[Ington]

who's to say that the gay men are comfortable with the straight men? it's just pure discrimination against individuality.

It wouldn't matter, because the entire 'he can potentially be thinking about me naked' scenario doesn't apply to a homosexual about a heterosexual.

Straight men may be uncomfortable living with people who openly show that they can be attracted to them. A homosexual man may be uncomfortable with the harsh treatment he may experience, but that would be his own fault for displaying his sexuality publicly.

This is not a matter of right and wrong. This is a matter of the lesser evil for everyone. Its that senseless pride in displaying individuality that causes problems, and the military is not a place for it.

[XRosesXAreXBlack...]

This is not a matter of right and wrong. This is a matter of the lesser evil for everyone. Its that senseless pride in displaying individuality that causes problems, and the military is not a place for it.

What do you mean "lesser evil" and "senseless pride"?
Just because someone is openly gay, that doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed to serve their country.
And why is the army allowed to discriminate like that anyway?It's bull.

[*karmakiller*]

^ Think of the traditions. The military's been doin' things they way the have for such a long time that things shouldn't be expected to change overnight.

I still don't know why someone would want to be openly gay in the military. If they are they'll take a lot of shit for it, so to me it'd make sense for them to just keep their mouths shut and do their thing. Their job has nothing to do with their sexual orientation... so why should it even be an issue.

[illriginal]

The don't ask, don't tell... is to save the lives of homosexuals. Because the fact is, homosexuality isn't widely accepted. Many homosexuals have been flogged and killed just because of their sexual preference. So it's not a thing of hatred, it's a thing of savin their health so they can die for a real cause... like the terrorist that don't exist

P.S. Just to let you know, my friend told me that when he was in boot camp. Instead of racism, it was hatred towards homosexuals. He was tellin me how a few guys were suspecting this kid to be homosexual, and they would say things like, "a good homosexual is a dead homosexual" and taunt the kid. Come to find out, the kid was never gay to begin with, nor bisexual. The kid ballsed (not a real word) up and told them he isn't gay and he proved it when his girlfriend came for the graduation.

So homosexuality is definitely not respected in the military, hate to break it to ya.

[*ersatz*]

^ Sure, but don't you think they know that already? If they choose to let people know they're gay (:o being openly gay does not mean you're extremely flamboyant!), then it's really their choice to make. And, shouldn't people be trying to help STOP the violence by encouraging openness and honesty about it and punishing those who are violent?

[illriginal]

^ Sure, but don't you think they know that already? If they choose to let people know they're gay (:o being openly gay does not mean you're extremely flamboyant!), then it's really their choice to make. And, shouldn't people be trying to help STOP the violence by encouraging openness and honesty about it and punishing those who are violent?

lol you're talkin bout the military. where it's common that men take steroids, have roid rage, who are feining for female ass, and have to deal with a higher ranked person chewing their ass out almost everyday. Do you know how much testosterone is just waitin to explode on any victim? Men are men... most heterosexual men, who claim to be the almighty alpha male either dislike homosexuality or just doesn't care about them.

Have you ever watched a boot camp video? They're turned into human killing machines lol
What you're askin from humanity, is like askin a lion to be nice and respectful to his prey and to accept them as living beings. Or asking a KKK member to adopt several kids from different religions and ethnic roots... it's just not gonna happen. It sucks and all but it's just not gonna happen, at least not in our life time.

[*karmakiller*]

^

Sad, but true.

[Kontroll]

Openly gay people are banned from the military. However, you can be "in the closet" and still serve, as long as you don't reveal your sexual orientation. The "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy is often mentioned in these sort of debates.

If a soldier's homosexuality does happen to be revealed, however, they are to immediately be discharged.

There have been some unfair discharges, however. In one case, one homosexual soldier was harassed with e-mails, and eventually, this anonymous person e-mailed the whole battalion, warning them that there was a homosexual soldier among them. His homosexuality was eventually revealed, and was immediately discharged. His roll in the military was an Arabic translator, which are extremely helpful to have, and not very easy to find.

People supporting the discharging of homosexuals testify that they cannot allow such immoral behaviour within the military. They also say that it is detrimental to the military to have such "unique" individuals (where the goal is to have cohesive groups of soldiers that are preferably as closely alike as possible).

Discuss, please.

Ha, you have alot to learn. First of all, are you in the military? Doubtful. Homosexuality is banned in the military, but like you said, if you keep it on the down low, (Don't ask, don't tell), then you'll be safe. You don't get immediately discharged. There's a process that must be taken and that process usually takes time. People use the excuse of homosexuality to get out of the military. So, they won't kick you out on your word alone. But yes, homosexuality is looked down upon in the military.

The military cannot allow people who choose to be individuals in the military, because it's those kind of peolpe who get others killed. The whole point of the military is teamwork. So, really....go experience it before you say something about it.

lol you're talkin bout the military. where it's common that men take steroids, have roid rage, who are feining for female ass, and have to deal with a higher ranked person chewing their ass out almost everyday.

They don't take steroids. haha. It's as much, if not, more illegal in the military to take steroids.

What do you mean "lesser evil" and "senseless pride"?
Just because someone is openly gay, that doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed to serve their country.
And why is the army allowed to discriminate like that anyway?It's bull.

To let you know, there's a variety of groups of people that aren't allowed in the military. It's not just homosexuals.

This post has been edited by Arjuna Capulong: Jul 4 2007, 03:18 PM

[Simba]

Ha, you have alot to learn. First of all, are you in the military? Doubtful. Homosexuality is banned in the military, but like you said, if you keep it on the down low, (Don't ask, don't tell), then you'll be safe. You don't get immediately discharged. There's a process that must be taken and that process usually takes time. People use the excuse of homosexuality to get out of the military. So, they won't kick you out on your word alone. But yes, homosexuality is looked down upon in the military.

The military cannot allow people who choose to be individuals in the military, because it's those kind of peolpe who get others killed. The whole point of the military is teamwork. So, really....go experience it before you say something about it.

Of course I'm not in the military, and yeah, I know there's a lot of inside info that I don't know about because of that. Partially why I never got real deep into this topic.

Anyway, I still understand the concept of the sort of teamwork they want in the military, which I've already heard about here and there several times. Ok, so maybe you're not discharged in a snap, but chances are, if someone reports you being gay, and you are gay, I would think you'd be discharged sooner or later (or at least, supposed to have been), regardless of how open you are about it.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot all about the homosexuality excuse for leaving the military.

[illriginal]

They don't take steroids. haha. It's as much, if not, more illegal in the military to take steroids.

I think I'd rather listen to and believe the few friends of which are in the NAVY, Marines, and Coast Guard. Once your out of American soil... everything is legal and everything goes, just don't get caught of course.

I didn't mean to make it seem as if I was implying about the military feeding steroids to our soldiers, that's just obviously stupid

[*ersatz*]

lol you're talkin bout the military. where it's common that men take steroids, have roid rage, who are feining for female ass, and have to deal with a higher ranked person chewing their ass out almost everyday. Do you know how much testosterone is just waitin to explode on any victim? Men are men... most heterosexual men, who claim to be the almighty alpha male either dislike homosexuality or just doesn't care about them.

Have you ever watched a boot camp video? They're turned into human killing machines lol
What you're askin from humanity, is like askin a lion to be nice and respectful to his prey and to accept them as living beings. Or asking a KKK member to adopt several kids from different religions and ethnic roots... it's just not gonna happen. It sucks and all but it's just not gonna happen, at least not in our life time.

That's...exactly my point. If we punish such behavior instead of encouraging it, isn't it less likely to happen? Don't we want a decrease in violence against our fellow innocent human beings?

[illriginal]

That's...exactly my point. If we punish such behavior instead of encouraging it, isn't it less likely to happen? Don't we want a decrease in violence against our fellow innocent human beings?

If we punished them because some heterosexual(s) beat down or killed a homosexual in the military, a lot of the military would be gone. I think it's just easier on the military if they told homosexuals to keep their sexuality out of the military.

They do the same about religion as well, no one wants to hear about your religion in the military, especially when it's a melting pot of atheist, and many other religions even satanic ones. So it's not a thing against homosexuals it's a thing of protection...

Yeah it wouldn't be so bad if the military simply said, look, homosexuality is allowed, deal with it, anyone who touches them will be dealt severely. But either way, I think people will still break the rules and attack homosexuals. I'm just sayin from my friends tales, it seems like homosexuality is frowned upon.

In my opinion of homosexuals, they don't bother me non... but I'd prefer for them to keep it to themselves, don't make it flamboyantly obvious.

[xKatt]

Immoral? Kicking people out of the military for who they are is immoral. They're willing to go through years of training and dedication to their country and we're denying them that right? That's ridiculous! Especially discharging someone who's a valuable asset. If anything, it's creating weaknesses and empty holes in the US military.

Not being able to be gay in the military is total bull. If a person wants to serve their country, then why should their sexuality matter? Having gay men and straight men around each other is no different than having men and women serving aside each other - something that is allowed.

Who says its immoral... The Bible??? Sheesh, what ever happened to separation of church and state?

Exactly. I don't think it could've been put in a better way.

lol you're talkin bout the military. where it's common that men take steroids, have roid rage, who are feining for female ass, and have to deal with a higher ranked person chewing their ass out almost everyday. Do you know how much testosterone is just waitin to explode on any victim? Men are men... most heterosexual men, who claim to be the almighty alpha male either dislike homosexuality or just doesn't care about them.

Have you ever watched a boot camp video? They're turned into human killing machines lol
What you're askin from humanity, is like askin a lion to be nice and respectful to his prey and to accept them as living beings. Or asking a KKK member to adopt several kids from different religions and ethnic roots... it's just not gonna happen. It sucks and all but it's just not gonna happen, at least not in our life time.

If you sign up for the military and make it through boot camp, chances are you'll learn self-restraint and you'll learn the consequences of your actions (because pretty much you're treated like a dog that must be obedient or else).

Taking the risk of being possibly put on the battlefield is something that takes more than a minute to decide. I'm sure that anyone applying for the military are aware of the consequences of acting inappropriately.

Soldiers know their duty. That's why they're in the armed forces.

As for being "different":
- minority races are allowed
- women are allowed
- people from the ages 17-45 are allowed (that's a big difference)

Gays can shave their heads, do pushups and follow the rules just as well as straights, but there's no reason to tell people you're gay, really.

DON'T ASK, DON'T TELL FTW!

[illriginal]

If you sign up for the military and make it through boot camp, chances are you'll learn self-restraint and you'll learn the consequences of your actions (because pretty much you're treated like a dog that must be obedient or else).

Taking the risk of being possibly put on the battlefield is something that takes more than a minute to decide. I'm sure that anyone applying for the military are aware of the consequences of acting inappropriately.

Soldiers know their duty. That's why they're in the armed forces.

True this is fully understandable. Homosexuality is just a sexual preference, nothing more nothing less.

The problem is, most of the world isn't opened to homosexuality. They frown upon it, find it immoral, find it against Natures Law (which technically holds water in an argument), and find it disgustingly wrong (envisioning two men most of the time lol).

You really can't force someone to change their opinion, it's up to them to change it. It's like religious people trying to force an atheist to convert to religion or to accept God as fact.

It's not just religion that frowns upon it, so religion shouldn't be the only one who gets fingered for being at fault. It's all psychological especially from experience of some sort.

But over-all I fully agree with this quote.

As for being "different":
- minority races are allowed
- women are allowed
- people from the ages 17-45 are allowed (that's a big difference)
Gays can shave their heads, do pushups and follow the rules just as well as straights

But guess what? There's one thing that all these categories have in common. No matter who or what they are, generally they all agree that they dislike homosexuality. Of course not ALL agree, but generally agree.

But there's no reason to tell people you're gay, really.

DON'T ASK, DON'T TELL FTW!

Exactly.

[*Flair*]

I am not for open homesexuals in the military. Isn't there enough hatred and discrimination already? Besides, why would someone want to be ridiculed, insulted and whatnot? I'm not saying that homosexuals should lie, just keep quiet. Don't ask, don't tell. Simple.
Honestly, shutting up might save the person's life.

Like many people stated, homosexuality isn't accepted world wide yet. Saying you're gay is attracting discrimination to yourself.

Besides, why say you're gay? If I should join the military, I wouldn't scream 'hey, I'm straight' or 'hey, I'm bisexual'. Absolutely unnecessary.

[*ersatz*]

But something like this would HELP it be accepted. If people want to be in the military, they should be prepared to deal with people having different sexual orientations. If you can kill people without thinking about it, it should not be a problem at all to just ignore a gay person if you don't think it's right. You have to do it in civilian life, don't you? Why should it be different in the military?

I mean, I don't think any person would go around just shouting that they're gay for no reason. No one's going to do that. But there's some cases in which you can kind of tell and I don't think anyone should suppress their natural personalities.

[xKatt]

True this is fully understandable. Homosexuality is just a sexual preference, nothing more nothing less.

The problem is, most of the world isn't opened to homosexuality. They frown upon it, find it immoral, find it against Natures Law (which technically holds water in an argument), and find it disgustingly wrong (envisioning two men most of the time lol).

You really can't force someone to change their opinion, it's up to them to change it. It's like religious people trying to force an atheist to convert to religion or to accept God as fact.

It's not just religion that frowns upon it, so religion shouldn't be the only one who gets fingered for being at fault. It's all psychological especially from experience of some sort.

But over-all I fully agree with this quote.
But guess what? There's one thing that all these categories have in common. No matter who or what they are, generally they all agree that they dislike homosexuality. Of course not ALL agree, but generally agree.
Exactly.

Ahhh. I guess you're right.

Like Sandra said, I don't support openly homosexual people in the military, but just the fact that a secret gets leaked to the authorities that one anonymous person could be gay turns into the dischargement of an innocent man in the military, serving his country. It's not just that though; it's the fact that it took investigation to find out who it was. If he's not ostentatiously gay, showing any signs of nonconformity and is just as uniform as his peers, what was the purpose of expelling him?

[illriginal]

But something like this would HELP it be accepted. If people want to be in the military, they should be prepared to deal with people having different sexual orientations. If you can kill people without thinking about it, it should not be a problem at all to just ignore a gay person if you don't think it's right. You have to do it in civilian life, don't you? Why should it be different in the military?

I mean, I don't think any person would go around just shouting that they're gay for no reason. No one's going to do that. But there's some cases in which you can kind of tell and I don't think anyone should suppress their natural personalities.

I don't know what else I can say/explain for you to understand, not that I'm tryin to change your mind but it's just better off kept quiet in my opinion. It wouldn't be as easy as you say, honestly it wouldn't. But nothing's wrong with wishful thinkin, I guess.

[*Flair*]

Ersatz, I'm not sure if it would help. Homosexuality is still a taboo in some parts of the world especially in the military. There are still narrow-minded people, there are people that will make life hell for the homosexual fellow. Why sacrifice yourself when you know it's going to make little or no change?

I see your point, but it's a lost cause. Sadly, people in the military aren't prepared yet for that. There's too much to lose.

Besides, it is absolutely not needed broadcasting your sexuality to hundreds of people.

[*ersatz*]

Like I said, I don't think anyone's going to be "broadcasting"...people don't really do that anyway. It's unlikely that someone extremely flamboyant would even be in the military so there's no need to worry about that. But like, sometimes people figure it out anyway even if the person hasn't said anything...and then they get beat up, and no one gets punished. And it's just let go because some people don't agree with homosexuality? How is that fair?

[Kontroll]

If we punished them because some heterosexual(s) beat down or killed a homosexual in the military, a lot of the military would be gone. I think it's just easier on the military if they told homosexuals to keep their sexuality out of the military.

They do the same about religion as well, no one wants to hear about your religion in the military, especially when it's a melting pot of atheist, and many other religions even satanic ones. So it's not a thing against homosexuals it's a thing of protection...

Yeah it wouldn't be so bad if the military simply said, look, homosexuality is allowed, deal with it, anyone who touches them will be dealt severely. But either way, I think people will still break the rules and attack homosexuals. I'm just sayin from my friends tales, it seems like homosexuality is frowned upon.

In my opinion of homosexuals, they don't bother me non... but I'd prefer for them to keep it to themselves, don't make it flamboyantly obvious.

Yo, you're wrong. There's no people more religious than those in the military. Haha. Yo, we went to church as much as we could. You find it to be a big relief and it helps with the stress. Also, there are so many different religions in the military it's not even funny. So, religion is a big part of the military.

[kimmytree]

Yo, you're wrong. There's no people more religious than those in the military. Haha. Yo, we went to church as much as we could. You find it to be a big relief and it helps with the stress. Also, there are so many different religions in the military it's not even funny. So, religion is a big part of the military.

That's very true. I know a couple of guys that signed up for the military the second they turned 18... and they're all the type that you see in church every Sunday.

Now hopefully this isnt stupid of me to say, and I dont mean to offend anyone by this - but it seems like alot of kids you see signing up for the military straight out of high school all seem to be alot alike. All the guys that I personally know are more religious, lower middle class, and not exactly bright. It just seems like most of the young guys you see inlisting seem to be alot alike in that sense.

It seems like it's never the smarter kids that you see inlisting... I guess because they know college is in there future. And then the ones that arent as intelligent arent always fit for a higher education. It's almost like they're the ones joining the military, since college isnt really an option for them.

^ Hopefully I havent offended anyone by any of that, because there are definitely people who are in the military who arent like that at all.

[illriginal]

Yo, you're wrong. There's no people more religious than those in the military. Haha. Yo, we went to church as much as we could. You find it to be a big relief and it helps with the stress. Also, there are so many different religions in the military it's not even funny. So, religion is a big part of the military.

I don't know what was the point of your argument. All I said was that religion shouldn't be the only one blamed for the disliking of homosexuals.. HAHA. Or whatever.

[1angel3]

I think it's silly. A Man sexual preference do not determine a his strength to serve in the military. You cannot look at someone and assume they're gay. Gays are people too and they shouldn't be mistreated because of it. I may not agree with the act but I will NOT mistreat you for it. This very reason is why I don't like some Christians. Christains tell you to treat other the way you like to be treated and some don't take their own advice.

[*steve330*]

You cannot look at someone and assume they're gay.

yes you can

[1angel3]

^ well I disagree. Maybe I worded it the wrong way. You can look at someone and assume they're gay but that doesn't mean they're gay. Unless they come out and say they're gay, then as far as I know they're not gay.

[*Sandraaa*]

^ Dude, you can look at someone and know that they are gay. FEMININE GAYS for example. We aren't saying we know all gays by their looks but we know SOME gays by their physical appearance. Man, where do you live?

[illriginal]

yes you can

Agreed... back in highschool... heck at the beach at night, you can easily tell who's a homosexual. But! Those are the people who are flamboyant. There's homosexuals out there who don't act like the opposite sex.

[1angel3]

^ Dude, you can look at someone and know that they are gay. FEMININE GAYS for example. We aren't saying we know all gays by their looks but we know SOME gays by their physical appearance. Man, where do you live?

Not all feminine men are gay. I know some straight Transsexual guys. At first I thought they was gay but turns out they wasn't. I even know some feminine guys that aren't gay. Why you want to know where I live?

[Spirited Away]

Not all feminine men are gay. I know some straight Transsexual guys. At first I thought they was gay but turns out they wasn't. I even know some feminine guys that aren't gay. Why you want to know where I live?

How can a "transexual" be straight if he/she is called transexual? Maybe I'm just not understanding this right.

[1angel3]

^ Ok maybe I worded it the wrong way. What do you call those guys that wear women clothes again? I guess cross dressers.

[Spirited Away]

Yea, crossdressers.

[xKatt]

Yeah.. like people who care that much about their appearance are going to be in the military.

[1angel3]

^ why not?

[xKatt]

^ why not?

We're talking about the military here. Where men go for weeks without running water and seal crawl through mud, shoot automatic guns and continue running even when blood is caked on their skin. They discourage uniqueness. Your hair must be shaved. You have to look and act as uniform as possible.

Do you really think that a drag queen or a transexual, someone who has paid hundreds if not thousands of dollars for their transformation, is going to join the military and have all that taken away from them?

I don't think so.

[*kryogenix*]

We should send all the gays to Iraq on street patrols.

[1angel3]

We're talking about the military here. Where men go for weeks without running water and seal crawl through mud, shoot automatic guns and continue running even when blood is caked on their skin. They discourage uniqueness. Your hair must be shaved. You have to look and act as uniform as possible.

Do you really think that a drag queen or a transexual, someone who has paid hundreds if not thousands of dollars for their transformation, is going to join the military and have all that taken away from them?

I don't think so.

Maybe not a tranny but a cross dresser. How you know if a tranny or cross dresser wouldn't join the military? Have you ever ask one? I haven't but it would be interesting. Some may not but this world is big, you can find one.

[*steve330*]

We should send all the gays to Iraq on street patrols.

I saw this one video where this Hummer was patrolling in Iraq and in order to stop from becoming a sitting target he had to bump all the cars in front of him, including buses and big vehicles. It was pretty funny, he just kept bumping them til they got out of his way.

[xKatt]

Maybe not a tranny but a cross dresser. How you know if a tranny or cross dresser wouldn't join the military? Have you ever ask one? I haven't but it would be interesting. Some may not but this world is big, you can find one.

Ok, what if I did find a cross-dresser that wanted to join the military. What's your point then?

[*Sandraaa*]

Angel3, I agree not all feminine guys are gay but please tell me that you're not that naive. You can't assume that everyone is straight until proven otherwise. It is POSSIBLE to know if someone's gay, it's a matter of opening your eyes, nothing more.

[illriginal]

Angel3, I agree not all feminine guys are gay but please tell me that you're not that naive. You can't assume that everyone is straight until proven otherwise. It is POSSIBLE to know if someone's gay, it's a matter of opening your eyes, nothing more.

Show me a feminine man that isn't bisexual nor homosexual. Then I'll believe you. Unless you're speaking of metrosexuals?

Metrosexuality in my opinion is homo curiosity.

[*steve330*]

Metrosexuality in my opinion is homo curiosity.

Or wanting to look good.

[illriginal]

Or wanting to look good.

Or doing feminine things like tanning in a tanning bed (when you have the beach), getting manicures, pedicures, wearing make up, doing your eye brows, adding fake eyelashes to make your eyes stand out lol, shaving your legs/arms LMAO.

Heck I remember in highschool when metrosexuality was the big thing, a few of my friends got into it.. and for some odd reason, they stopped playing football with us. They didn't mind gettin a bloody lip, or cuts/bruises from a good game of football. But they just stop playing, they didn't move, they didn't find anything else better to do... they just never gave us an answer.

[*steve330*]

*shrug* I guess it depends on what level of metro sexuality they are. Most metrosexuals I know don't put on fake lashes, shave their legs, etc etc.

[illriginal]

*shrug* I guess it depends on what level of metro sexuality they are. Most metrosexuals I know don't put on fake lashes, shave their legs, etc etc.

True.

I went to a preppy school... so it was pretty extreme there.

[*Sandraaa*]

Show me a feminine man that isn't bisexual nor homosexual. Then I'll believe you. Unless you're speaking of metrosexuals?

Metrosexuality in my opinion is homo curiosity.

There are people whom you call Fashion Victims, they dress extremely well, take care of their nails and hair and EVERYTHING. It's à la mode in my city and they are straight.

Metrosexual doesn't necessarily mean homo curiosity. Like Steve said; wanting to look good. Taking care of your appearance.

[illriginal]

There are people whom you call Fashion Victims, they dress extremely well, take care of their nails and hair and EVERYTHING. It's à la mode in my city and they are straight.

Metrosexual doesn't necessarily mean homo curiosity. Like Steve said; wanting to look good. Taking care of your appearance.

Yeah but doing your eyebrows? And shaving hair off your body? I understand if maybe your a swimmer.. or bodybuilder who does competitions (who use spray on tan as well)

I take care of appearance, pick good clothes that fit correctly, and that match properly. I also get my hair cuts so that my hair is nice and short. I take care of my skin... though that's one thing I guess you can say is metrosexual about me, cuz I do use lotion before I go to bed.

But whatever, I don't think I've seen a feminine-like guy (other than metrosexuals) that are heterosexual.

And when I say feminine-like I'm also including their voice/tone... unless we're not adding that into the category of feminine men.

[*ersatz*]

I do my boyfriend's eyebrows so he doesn't have giant caterpillar ones. I'm...pretty sure he's not gay.

[*Sandraaa*]

Yeah but doing your eyebrows? And shaving hair off your body? I understand if maybe your a swimmer.. or bodybuilder who does competitions (who use spray on tan as well)

I take care of appearance, pick good clothes that fit correctly, and that match properly. I also get my hair cuts so that my hair is nice and short. I take care of my skin... though that's one thing I guess you can say is metrosexual about me, cuz I do use lotion before I go to bed.

But whatever, I don't think I've seen a feminine-like guy (other than metrosexuals) that are heterosexual.

And when I say feminine-like I'm also including their voice/tone... unless we're not adding that into the category of feminine men.

Metrosexuals aren't necessarily feminine. Women aren't the only one whom are supposed to take care of themselves. Doing your eyebrow doesn't make you gay nor transexual nor bisexual.

[heyyfrankie]

gay people are proven to be less effective fighters

that might be true on a general basis, but if someone enrolls, trains and is accepted into the military, then they are obviously going to be effective. No matter what their orientation. Not all gay men act like girls, believe it or not.

[xKatt]

gay people are proven to be less effective fighters

LMAO. Where did you get this information? Did you just pull this out of your ass? I hope you're joking.

And there's a reason why soldiers go through months of intense training.

[tooeffingcrazy]

No. I want there to be a law against homosexuals. No homosexuals allowed in the military! Why the hell are homosexuals fighting for their rights to get killed? I want a reason to not go to war. "Oh sorry. I'm gay, I can't go."

Oh how selfish I am.

[illriginal]

that might be true on a general basis, but if someone enrolls, trains and is accepted into the military, then they are obviously going to be effective. No matter what their orientation. Not all gay men act like girls, believe it or not.

lol you're gay aren't you?

I mean it's cool that you're gay and all... not dissing you for being gay.

[DarkImpressions]

If someone is willing to risk their life,And leave their family and friends,Im all for it.
Alot of people are scared to go to the army just because..
Ok it doesnt matter if your gay,And half the time they probably werent coming on to other guys anyway.
I think its wrong.

[xKatt]

And half the time they probably werent coming on to other guys anyway

LOL @ half the time.

I'm sure gay guys can control it for more than 50% of the time.