berg-a martyr?, nicholas berg and his intentions Options

[juliar]

The media is saying that Nicholas Berg (the guy beheaded) had chosen to be killed for his country.
What do you think about this?

[WildGriffin]

The media is saying that Nicholas Berg (the guy beheaded) had chosen to be killed for his country.

Uh, the media says alot of things.

[juliar]

Uh, the media says alot of things.

What comes from the media usually has a core of truth.

[WildGriffin]

What comes from the media is usually spins on popular subjects that people will tune in to. media is 90% money making, 10% fact finding.

[*Kathleen*]

But the United States offered him a trip home...he refused...

[WildGriffin]

i'm just saying don't site the media as an information source, wait for the facts to leak. people push around crack pot theories all the time in the "media". I could care less if he was a martyr, some guy being beheaded in some far away place that doesn't directly concern me doesn't bother me much. Worse things happen all the time.

[*Kathleen*]

Heh...wait...are you saying you did not care for him?!

[WildGriffin]

Heh...wait...are you saying you did not care for him?!

The same way i don't "care" about starving children in 3rd world countries. Sure i think about it and how it must suck, but it passes.

[*Kathleen*]

Yes, but this deals directly with our country - one of our own civilians.

[WildGriffin]

i don't feel this man's life or death will ever affect my life and it's future, so therefore i find no need to argue on his behalf as being a martyr or not.

uh...yeah. *strolls off the topic*

[*Kathleen*]

Ah okay I see what you mean. Still, do you feel any remorse for him at all? Did you watch the video?

[WildGriffin]

no,i haven't seen the video. anyone got a link for it?
PM it to me or IM it on AIM to "wildgriffin182" since this is a pg-13 forum...don't want 11 year olds clicking on the link.

[onenonly101]

The media lies alot of the time and blows things out of proportion. Also the Us officails said that they never negotiated or anything and them negotiating would have been the only way for him to get out of the captures hands

[juliar]

i'm just saying don't site the media as an information source, wait for the facts to leak. people push around crack pot theories all the time in the "media". I could care less if he was a martyr, some guy being beheaded in some far away place that doesn't directly concern me doesn't bother me much. Worse things happen all the time.

I was using the media as a basis for this debate, not something to depend on.
Agh, I doubt he wanted to be killed. And I think Berg's father said something how he never got the CHANCE to return.. and go on a trial. [CNN.]

[Mireh]

He was CHOSEN? I thought he was just there for business and they randomly caught and beheaded him.

BUT...His life could have been spared if they traded him with the captured iraqui soilders, but the americans refused.

I still respect him for what he's done.

[juliar]

He was CHOSEN? I thought he was just there for business and they randomly caught and beheaded him.

BUT...His life could have been spared if they traded him with the captured iraqui soilders, but the americans refused.

I still respect him for what he's done.

He was there because he did something wrong. THen was stuck there without trial for 13 days.

[*CEP*]

The media is saying that Nicholas Berg (the guy beheaded) had chosen to be killed for his country.
What do you think about this?

He didn't chose to die.
If he did, then why was he screaming?

- Chinkieeyedpnoi

please the guy was a loser.

[PinoyOtaku]

please the guy was a loser.

In what way, may I ask?

[*CEP*]

In what way, may I ask?

Ditto.


- Chinkieeyedpnoi

[Mireh]

please the guy was a loser.

I don't think you are intitled to call Mr. Berg a loser unless if you personally know him, which I seriously think you do not.

And if YOU were to be beheaded, would you want people calling YOU a loser? I think not.

[*Kathleen*]

Jewishbabeygirl87 - stop posting things that have no reasons behind them!

Also, more onto this Nicholas Berg case...has anyone read/seen the news lately? This story gets even odder other than the fact that he wanted to stay there when the U.S. told him to come back...he has an uncle who lives in Iraq, who supposedly didn't want him to come. Moreover, Zacharriah (can't spell his name), the one who had direct links to 9/11, was using his e-mail account in Oklahoma...what do you think of this? This just raises my questions about him: is he as innocent as we think he is? I dunno...I suppose I have to read more into this...

[*[2]Nekked*]

Jewishbabeygirl87

i now hate you. i watched that video, and im like..scarred for life now. those sick f*cks held his head in front of the camera for like a full minute. omg it was horrifying. i feel sorry for his family if they had to watch that.

I may be misinformed..but all i read was that he went there to go help set some antennas up or something..and then he was held in jail or something for a while because he was suspected of doing some suspicious ish.. and then he was let go. and the us told him to go home but he didnt want to, and then he was captured by those sick sick people and publicly decapitated. you could hear him dying.

edit:// erf. i dunno what to think anymore http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/4FF...079E91F2784.htm

[Spirited Away]

But the United States offered him a trip home...he refused...

I was about to point that out too

US offered him a ride home months before...


EDIT::

i watched that video, and im like..scarred for life now. those sick f*cks held his head in front of the camera for like a full minute. omg it was horrifying. i feel sorry for his family if they had to watch that.

Same here. That wasn't just sick, it proves what kind of people we're dealing with:cold-blooded, sadistical, and down right evil.

[*Kathleen*]

I second that last statement, uninspiredfae. They're animals.

[*[2]Nekked*]

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/4FF...079E91F2784.htm

[Spirited Away]

Nekked,May 14 2004, 9:49 PM] http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/4FF...079E91F2784.htm

So there's a conspiracy theory now?

[*krnxswat*]

So confusing. I wish Berg could come out in people's dream and tell them what happened.

[*[2]Nekked*]

So confusing. I wish Berg could come out in people's dream and tell them what happened.

i would rather not have nightmares about that video. thanks.

[*krnxswat*]

Nekked,May 14 2004, 11:01 PM] i would rather not have nightmares about that video. thanks.

Well I didn't necessary refer to the video, but just Berg himself.
What kind of nonsense was this that I said, lol. How silly I am.
Anyways back to the topic..

[*[2]Nekked*]

er... ok me and nick just talked about this. but he reviewed the video. i chose not to, but i remember it well enough. at first glance.. the first time you watch it.. you think its gonna be real. so you naturally freak out because you think thats a real human being getting his head chopped off..

but think about this. he didnt move. he didnt wriggle. not even a trace of an instinctive flinch. and he was grabbed by the hair and thown down. there were no tendons. no blood. the spinal cord doesnt severe that easily and quickly from a machete. and if the artery was cut there would be serious amounts of blood gushing and spurting out. but there wasnt. there was this clean cut head. the old pic of him doesnt look like the guy in the video. it looks all plastic-y.

god forbid me if it really is true though and he was really beheaded. but yeah.. think about it..

[waccoon]

it has to be a fake, the blood couldnt have been held inside the body. if the neck is severed, you also sever many veins and arteries, also a vital vessel in the neck. blood would be everywhere, however - the video, the floor is clean, and the head does not move an inch, no blood drips down. the technology they used is pretty modern, too. puppet theathre.
[edit] also, why would a private be wandering iraq by himself? why is the executioner's face covered if everybody knows who is he? pro-war pigs, everyone. thats all it is.

[Spirited Away]

it has to be a fake, the blood couldnt have been held inside the body. if the neck is severed, you also sever many veins and arteries, also a vital vessel in the neck. blood would be everywhere, however - the video, the floor is clean, and the head does not move an inch, no blood drips down. the technology they used is pretty modern, too. puppet theathre.
[edit] also, why would a private be wandering iraq by himself? why is the executioner's face covered if everybody knows who is he? pro-war pigs, everyone. thats all it is.

I saw a puddle of blood on the floor where he was hacking away at the neck.

then again, my version of the video was blurry.

[*Kathleen*]

I was thinking about moving, and I thought up something: perhaps he was drugged in order for them to make it easier to tape the video.

Also, I don't know what video Jose watched, but he said it was clear, and that he actually saw the guy blink and he saw it ripping through. Perhaps there's a fake one going around?

[waccoon]

I saw a puddle of blood on the floor where he was hacking away at the neck.

then again, my version of the video was blurry.

there should have been massive amounts, and not just on the floor, all over his jumpsuit, and some should have dripped from his brain.

[*[2]Nekked*]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discu...d=1592067&page=

[*Kathleen*]

Heh...even if it was fake, they definitely decapitated him...they found his body...

[waccoon]

Heh...even if it was fake, they definitely decapitated him...they found his body...

the video was a pro-war propaganda in a way, though.

[Spirited Away]

the video was a pro-war propaganda in a way, though.

We will never know the truth, but it did incensed me though.

[*Kathleen*]

We might if we're able to catch one of those guys and force it out of them.

Oh, yes, Nick, very true...unfortunately.

[T00000]

this is actually very interesting... they found his body, yes... but they didn't find his head...







IN response to that article... he does sort of look dead... doesn't he...



GROSS. I didn't watch the actual video because i didn't want to see a dead person!!! I saw the cut video because i thought that would be enough!!


I am SO distured OMG.

[Just_Dream]

I haven't watched the video cause I don't have realOne player hahas oh well. It's wrong how the US (IF it was them) would try to fake a video to make it seem that Iraq is just as bad as the US military people who harassed the Iraqi POWs... >_<"

[T00000]

i am so distraught.

they are animals.
wait i thought that we just destroyed their contry. they killed one person, maybe horribly, but it is much less that what we have done to them.
we invaded their home contry.

besides he was asked to leave for his public saftey. i dont feel bad for that guy. he knew the dangers. yet he came anyway. it really shows that he didnt care about his family if he didnt want to go haome, but knew that the iraqis would put his death on tv[duh they alwasy do].by loser i mean that he was offered the chance to come home and decide not to take it. in that i have no sypathy.

and go right ahead and hate me. like i care about what you[someone who doesnt even know me] thinks of me.

[*[2]Nekked*]

besides he was asked to leave for his public saftey. i dont feel bad for that guy. he knew the dangers. yet he came anyway. it really shows that he didnt care about his family if he didnt want to go haome, but knew that the iraqis would put his death on tv[duh they alwasy do].by loser i mean that he was offered the chance to come home and decide not to take it. in that i have no sypathy.

and go right ahead and hate me. like i care about what you[someone who doesnt even know me] thinks of me.

that may have not been the case.

[melface]

they are animals.
wait i thought that we just destroyed their contry. they killed one person, maybe horribly, but it is much less that what we have done to them.
we invaded their home contry.

besides he was asked to leave for his public saftey. i dont feel bad for that guy. he knew the dangers. yet he came anyway. it really shows that he didnt care about his family if he didnt want to go haome, but knew that the iraqis would put his death on tv[duh they alwasy do].by loser i mean that he was offered the chance to come home and decide not to take it. in that i have no sypathy.

and go right ahead and hate me. like i care about what you[someone who doesnt even know me] thinks of me.

you're heartless. If the video was not a fake, are you saying a innocent person could be put to death in such a manner? No matter what the situation or what his decision was... no person deserves to die that way, especially publicly. Just the thought that people could be that way makes me sick. It's not okay... and it's not okay that those people even came up with that idea...

[waccoon]

they are animals.
wait i thought that we just destroyed their contry. they killed one person, maybe horribly, but it is much less that what we have done to them.
we invaded their home contry.

besides he was asked to leave for his public saftey. i dont feel bad for that guy. he knew the dangers. yet he came anyway. it really shows that he didnt care about his family if he didnt want to go haome, but knew that the iraqis would put his death on tv[duh they alwasy do].by loser i mean that he was offered the chance to come home and decide not to take it. in that i have no sypathy.

and go right ahead and hate me. like i care about what you[someone who doesnt even know me] thinks of me.

time to break a rule in the debate forum.

are you that ignorant, imperceptive and torpic to call him unfeeling and that he doesn't care about his family? the video was a fake. berg was beheaded, but the video that was released was a fake. did you ever consider why he stayed in iraq instead of returning home? maybe he wanted not to be a coward, and return to his country after all that it's provided for him? you have no "sypathy" for an innocent man that was beheaded? if you meant sympathy, how can you not? you must be pretty imperturbable, if you don't feel anything towards berg.

go ahead and start cursing. like i care about what some little ten year old jewish girl who isnt even jewish thinks.

[melface]

Very well said, Nick. <3. I applaud you!

[Mireh]

they are animals.
wait i thought that we just destroyed their contry. they killed one person, maybe horribly, but it is much less that what we have done to them.
we invaded their home contry.

besides he was asked to leave for his public saftey. i dont feel bad for that guy. he knew the dangers. yet he came anyway. it really shows that he didnt care about his family if he didnt want to go haome, but knew that the iraqis would put his death on tv[duh they alwasy do].by loser i mean that he was offered the chance to come home and decide not to take it. in that i have no sypathy.

and go right ahead and hate me. like i care about what you[someone who doesnt even know me] thinks of me.

WHAT!?

How dare you call him a loser! How do you know that he DIDN"T CARE FOR HIS FAMILIY!?

Yes, even though he was offered to go back to america, he wanted to stay in Iraq to help the Iraquis out. THAT WAS WHAT HE WAS THERE FOR IN THE FIRST PLACE!!! He had the heart to stay and help people that needed him most. Not his family, but the Iraqis.

Do you have no heart for an innocent man that was beheaded!? Especially if he is one of us?

How can you call yourslef an american?

[xscore]

they are animals.
wait i thought that we just destroyed their contry. they killed one person, maybe horribly, but it is much less that what we have done to them.
we invaded their home contry.

besides he was asked to leave for his public saftey. i dont feel bad for that guy. he knew the dangers. yet he came anyway. it really shows that he didnt care about his family if he didnt want to go haome, but knew that the iraqis would put his death on tv[duh they alwasy do].by loser i mean that he was offered the chance to come home and decide not to take it. in that i have no sypathy.

and go right ahead and hate me. like i care about what you[someone who doesnt even know me] thinks of me.

i agree with the first part thats in huge font....but the rest is cruel dont u think?...

[casssy]

besides he was asked to leave for his public saftey. i dont feel bad for that guy. he knew the dangers. yet he came anyway. it really shows that he didnt care about his family if he didnt want to go haome, but knew that the iraqis would put his death on tv[duh they alwasy do].by loser i mean that he was offered the chance to come home and decide not to take it. in that i have no sypathy.

and go right ahead and hate me. like i care about what you[someone who doesnt even know me] thinks of me.

That makes me mad... he went out there to help them rebuild Iraq.. (which i think was a kind thing to do) how can you say dont feel bad for him? I do.. It bothers me to think someone can do that to a person.. he was a awesome guy [from what the news said and so] he cared about his family alot, and you can tell.. I dont think he even knew what the Iraqis were going to do.. you can see him sitting there.. most likely thinking 'whats going on? are they going to hurt me? ' ... horrible.

[PinoyOtaku]

they are animals.
wait i thought that we just destroyed their contry. they killed one person, maybe horribly, but it is much less that what we have done to them.
we invaded their home contry.

besides he was asked to leave for his public saftey. i dont feel bad for that guy. he knew the dangers. yet he came anyway. it really shows that he didnt care about his family if he didnt want to go haome, but knew that the iraqis would put his death on tv[duh they alwasy do].by loser i mean that he was offered the chance to come home and decide not to take it. in that i have no sypathy.

and go right ahead and hate me. like i care about what you[someone who doesnt even know me] thinks of me.

The first part I can somewhat (not entirely!) agree with, but the second part, all I can say is........damn are you that cold? Not only he was asked to leave for his safety but many others as well. Hell, should we just pull out every person we have in there for their "public safety" and let the Iraqis rebuild the stuff that we destroyed? He knew the risks involved and decided to stay to help others. I'm sure one of the reasons he stayed was to help rebuild the nation. He had enough compassion to risk his own life to assist in rebuilding Iraq. His generosity cannot be seen only in Iraq but in various third world countries where he attempted to contribute to the poor. One interesting note is that he is a fellow Jew...

I don't hate, we may have diffrent views on this and that I am too disgusted to respect, it still is no reason to hate..

[T00000]

You know... I'd like to set things straight here. First off, Nick Berg was not in Iraq on a vacation. It was his job to be, he was trying to rebuild the communication towers that we bombed so Iraqis could benefit from them again. Jewishbabygirl, I'm really appalled by your ignorant comments. No one deserves that. I don't think even Suddam Hussein would deserve that. Also, yes, Nick berg was offered a chance to leave, but declined. Not because he didn't want to leave, he in fact wanted to leave two weeks before they offered, and was planning on leaving in that manner. However, the US offered him a route home that wasn't the one he was originally planning on taking, and the one they offered him was unsafe. He was planning on taking a much safer route through Jordan. He wanted to go home. He didn't want to die, nor did he want to risk it, and this is why he wanted to go home.

I just thought I'd set some things straight...

[casssy]

You know... I'd like to set things straight here. First off, Nick Berg was not in Iraq on a vacation. It was his job to be, he was trying to rebuild the communication towers that we bombed so Iraqis could benefit from them again. Jewishbabygirl, I'm really appalled by your ignorant comments. No one deserves that. I don't think even Suddam Hussein would deserve that. Also, yes, Nick berg was offered a chance to leave, but declined. Not because he didn't want to leave, he in fact wanted to leave two weeks before they offered, and was planning on leaving in that manner. However, the US offered him a route home that wasn't the one he was originally planning on taking, and the one they offered him was unsafe. He was planning on taking a much safer route through Jordan. He wanted to go home. He didn't want to die, nor did he want to risk it, and this is why he wanted to go home.

I just thought I'd set some things straight...

heh said perfectly..

[PinoyOtaku]

Sorry my lack of sleep had me droning nonsense while I was composing my last reply...

[*Kathleen*]

they are animals.
wait i thought that we just destroyed their contry. they killed one person, maybe horribly, but it is much less that what we have done to them.
we invaded their home contry.

besides he was asked to leave for his public saftey. i dont feel bad for that guy. he knew the dangers. yet he came anyway. it really shows that he didnt care about his family if he didnt want to go haome, but knew that the iraqis would put his death on tv[duh they alwasy do].by loser i mean that he was offered the chance to come home and decide not to take it. in that i have no sypathy.

and go right ahead and hate me. like i care about what you[someone who doesnt even know me] thinks of me.

Okay, I agree with everyone who just said something about the fact that you don't own a heart. I won't waste my breath on insulting such a beast as yourself.

HAH. Yeah, those same people (al-Qaida, if you were too stupid to know that) were behind the September eleventh attacks...go read the newspaper, buddy. Go get a brain when you buy that heart. They DON'T videotape every killing. They bomb our cars over there all the time. They kill their own people. It's not al-Qaida's country...they don't own it...it's Iraq...they want to own it...those heartless animals would be the ones operating that country (not theirs) if it weren't for us. They do that all the time to their own people.

[*Kathleen*]

I know I'm double posting, but I want to sort of bring this up: why would the video be fake? We know he's dead. Why would al-Qaida fake it? They've never faked stuff before, right? Besides, why would they go out of their way to spend the little money that they have?

[juliar]

I know I'm double posting, but I want to sort of bring this up: why would the video be fake? We know he's dead. Why would al-Qaida fake it? They've never faked stuff before, right? Besides, why would they go out of their way to spend the little money that they have?

But now they're saying that AMERICAN soldiers had beheaded him...

[*Kathleen*]

Why would they?

[waccoon]

Why would they?

because it would help bush the most, and it's obvious the video was fake.

[*Kathleen*]

So...American soldiers killed this innocent civilian of ours because they want to help Bush?

[WildGriffin]

If anyone cares, 4 people were arrested thus far.

Berg Update

[waccoon]

no, not american soldiers. pro war citizens.

[Jiggapin0]

This is what I heard about the video being fake. In the video, the dudes were wearin' Nikes, an American product. And one of the dudes was wearin' gold which is against Muslim beliefs. Muslims don't wear gold. Why would someone from Al-qaeda(who are well known to be hardcore Muslims) wear gold?

[angel-roh]

whoooa why does he wana kill for his country????? i dont knoe... well if he wants to die ok.