Free Tookie? Options

[let me post]

On December 13th 2005, Stan Tookie Williams will be excuted.

Stan was the co-founder in 1971 of the Los Angeles Crips gang. In 1981 he was convicted of murdering four people during two robberies and sentenced to death row at San Quentin State Prison. Stan deeply regrets his gang involvement but has always maintained his innocence of these crimes.

Stanley "Tookie" Williams receives no money for having written the Tookie Speaks Out series and Life in Prison. He is donating proceeds to several non-profit organizations, including Mothers Against Gang Wars, located in South Central Los Angeles, California. All donations and grants given to The Institute For Prevention Of Youth Violence, a nonprofit entity, will go toward funding a diverse group of programs that will assist children in becoming responsible, successful and self-confident people.

My question is - Should Governor Schwarzenegger grant him clemency? In what situation should the Governor grant clemency?


------------


If your interested, here's a site dedicated to saving Tookie. http://www.savetookie.org/index.html

[*RiC3xBoy*]

I think yes. He claims he is a changed man and I believe him.
Edit: I decided to think about this.....and I change my mind. I do believe he has changed, but he did what he did and there is no excuse for it.

[fameONE]

Depends.

I believe Tookie's changed, and I do believe he'd be an asset to the community if freed.

I also believe he won't live long if granted clemency.

Then again, if Tookie is freed, then the warden of every pen in the entire country is going to have to take an in depth look on the files of their prisoners, because Tookie isn't the only brotha that needs to be let out of the cage.

[illumineering]

He's an unrepentant former gang leader and murderer. He should never get out of prison. I'm not a supporter of the death penalty, so I think it's reasonable that he spends the rest of his natural life in prison.

[*kryogenix*]

What Tookie did was absolutely inexcusable and he deserves to be punished. I don't think he should be freed, even though I know in my heart that he truly regrets what he has done. I think he should be kept alive in prison, in order to talk to kids who might join gangs.

[_sarcastic_]

well i don't think that it's a good idea if he is freed,probably not give him a death sentence but maybe a longer time in prison.

[sense.n.style]

^same here. no matter wat the person did, nobody deserves to be killed. thats like murdering too.

[lakerfever2476]

I actually think he SHOULD be executed. It wouldn't be fair to all the other convicts who got executed. Even though he turned his life around, made a change, etc. Regardless of all that, he still did what he did. He killed human beings. I don't see how just because of that, he gets freed. You have to think about the family of the people that were killed by him. Imagine how they'd feel if Tookie was freed. The man who killed their son/brother/uncle etc.

well i don't think that it's a good idea if he is freed,probably not give him a death sentence but maybe a longer time in prison.

He's serving life in prison right now. Right?
I admit I would feel sorry for him, but it's not like he brought those dead people back to life. Just because he wrote books and changed everything doesn't cover for the fact he did kill someone.

[_sarcastic_]

He's serving life in prison right now. Right?   
I admit I would feel sorry for him, but it's not like he brought those dead people back to life. Just because he wrote books and changed everything doesn't cover for the fact he did kill someone.

what i meant was instead of a death sentence why not just let him stay in prison

[*Statistik*]

are you guys f**king stupid? HE'S THE FOUNDER OF THE CRIPS AND HIS 16-YEAR OLD DAUGHTER GOT KILLED FROM THE GANG MEMBERS INTENTIONALLY...AND TOOKIE WAS CONNECTED WITH THEM..ALSO THIS IS A FACT THAT TOOKIE KILLED 4 PEOPLE WITH A SHOTGUN? 4 f**king PEOPLE WITH A SHOTGUN....AND U DONT BELIEVE HE DESERVES TO GET EXECUTED? I WOULD BE GLAD IF HE GOT EXECUTED BECAUSE HE DID WHAT WAS WRONG AND THE PUNISHMENT IS GOING TO COME!

IF ANYONE KILLS ANOTHER PERSON, THAT PERSON WHO DID THE MURDERING NEEDS TO BE KILLED AS WELL! THATS A POWERFUL LAW THAT NEEDS TO BE GOING.

SO YES TOOKIE SHOULD BE EXECUTED.

[LiLCUTiEFR0MDAYA...]

i think NO . okay if he is free then what about the familes that he f**ked up? its hella unfair.. but i dont believe in the death punishment. but he should stay in jail...

[sadolakced acid]

" don't join gangs and kill people kids because you'll end up like me, free as a bird, rich, and famous"

just doens't seem like the right way to convince kids.

[fameONE]

I think he should rot in the hole, but I don't think its right that the state decides his fate.

[*swtcherriipie*]

He should be executed im sorry but seriously hes just doing this to look good HE KILLED SOOO MANY PEOPLE and put soo much dirty money in the streets. So KILLED LAUNDERED MONEY SOLD DRUGS(TO MINORS) and CO-FOUNDED one of the most dangerous gangs in the U.S THE CRIPS.... =\ what do you think?...

[WHOngos144]

I think he should be executed because he took people's lives. And he did what he did even though he has changed. He still deserves a punishment.

[technicolour]

Murder=Punishment.

No..he shouldn't be allowed to live. He shot 4 people, and started up a gang.

Sure, he's changed, but he can't change what he's already done.

[*not_your_average*]

I am against the death penalty, so I believe he should be in prison for life. He has to do something to serve his punishment for doing what he did. Taking a life is an unexcuseable act in my opinion, and Tookie should pay the price for it.

[radarkitty]

Buh-bye Tookie. Good riddance!

[lakerfever2476]

Gosh, his days are numbered. if he doesn't get clemency, CNN says he'll be injected Tuesday midnight. O_OO

[NoSex]

Murder=Punishment.

No..he shouldn't be allowed to live. He shot 4 people, and started up a gang.

Sure, he's changed, but he can't change what he's already done.

And killing another person will not change what he has done either. Is it just me, but... doesn't killing another person for their mistakes and offenses in hopes for satisfaction seem kind of sick and barbaric, not to mention hypocritical?

[*disco infiltrator*]

Why not try to rehabilitate him, or let him prove his self-worth (which he pretty much has)? Usually, when people kill others, they're not thinking so straight and maybe have some mental or psychological problems that affect their judgement. Instead of simply killing someone, and taking the easy way out, why not try to help them with their apparent problems?

[technicolour]

And killing another person will not change what he has done either. Is it just me, but... doesn't killing another person for their mistakes and offenses in hopes for satisfaction seem kind of sick and barbaric, not to mention hypocritical?

Okay..I was watching TV && this crazy lady said pretty much what you just said.

By killing someone who has killed, that means we are basically supporting this killing business, right?

I believe an eye for an eye, a life for a life, etc etc etc. He killed someone, the evidence says so..blah blah blah, and, well, if you do something wrong you should be punished.

That simple.

[sheridan_whitesi...]

I believe an eye for an eye, a life for a life, etc etc etc. He killed someone, the evidence says so..blah blah blah, and, well, if you do something wrong you should be punished.

That simple.

So who gets to kill the guy with the needle?

[*not_your_average*]

So who gets to kill the guy with the needle?

Heh. Well put.

[*RiC3xBoy*]

Okay..I was watching TV && this crazy lady said pretty much what you just said.

By killing someone who has killed, that means we are basically supporting this killing business, right?

I believe an eye for an eye, a life for a life, etc etc etc. He killed someone, the evidence says so..blah blah blah, and, well, if you do something wrong you should be punished.

That simple.

What if you kill a man, and later find out that he is innocent? Also, there is not enough hard evidense to prove Stanley did it. The only evidense provided is the shotgun shells during the shootings matching that of Stanley's shotgun. There were also witnesses that claimed hearing him saying that he had killed 4 people, but a few of those people were criminals themselfs. Go Figure.

[technicolour]

He's claiming he's been set up...

[*RiC3xBoy*]

Hmm....I guess no clemency

Schwarzenegger Denies Clemency For Former Gang Leader.

[technicolour]

^ DAMN! you beat me.

No clemency.

[*RiC3xBoy*]

^ DAMN! you beat me.

Always a pleasure.

[*kryogenix*]

Riots tonight.

[*RiC3xBoy*]

I heard LAPD has been getting some anonymous phone calls from gang members that if Tookie dies, they would be dishing out some damage.

[KrunkMuzik]

I think they should free him..but too late. He's scheduled to die midnight today. They should stop death row. He should just be sentenced for life.

[sadolakced acid]

life in prision is very cushy.

if i'm ever homeless and know i can't get death row, i'll rob a bank.

get away- you're rich.

get caught- free hotel forever. don't have to work if you're a murderer, cus they won't trust you with tools.

sounds like a nice retirement plan for gang members.

[yo pusha]

i made an error in the topic title, i meant "save tookie"?

i dont believe in the death penalty
i dont believe tookie has "changed" either
i do believe tookie killed the 4 people

should tookie be punished for starting the crips? well he was sentenced to prison because he killed 4 people, not because he founded the crips. i do believe he killed those 4 people, probably did more bad things that he wasnt convicted for.

but isnt jail supposed to be for rehabilitation and punishment? although i dont believe tookie "changed" i believe he will do more good alive than dead. however that is not why i dont want him to be executed. i just dont believe in the death penalty. i hope that makes sense

[hi-C]

Hmm....I guess no clemency

Schwarzenegger Denies Clemency For Former Gang Leader.

Yeah, and the only reason why he hasn't been granted clemency is because Schwarzenegger says Tookie won't apologize. If there's enough evidence to back up his claim that he was set up by an acquaintance, I understand why Williams isn't apologizing. If I was convicted for something I didn't do, I wouldn't apologize either. I would feel sympathy for the families of those killed, but I wouldn't apologize. And then to be nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize, and get a President's Call to Service Award from Bush and not be granted clemency on the basis that he's hasn't reformed...I don't agree with Schwarzenegger at all.

[Tribal J_Rome]

but isnt jail supposed to be for rehabilitation and punishment? although i dont believe tookie "changed" i believe he will do more good alive than dead. however that is not why i dont want him to be executed. i just dont believe in the death penalty. i hope that makes sense

word. i never believed in the death penalty either, i think criminals should be stuck to rot in jail for the rest of their lives. plus there's always that possibility that you kill an innocent person.

[HongKongDong]

There are no definities in life...killing really shouldnt breed more killing. We dont know...but all i know is...tookie's clemency wasnt accepted for a reason, tookie is obviously supposed to be killed as everything happens for a reason..who knows maybe the afterlife has some positive use for tookie, or if you prefer he'll just rot in the ground. Its a "what if?" .What if and what if could be good and bad, but "what if" isnt going to happen, the death penalty is going to happen and whether people agree with it or not..thats whats going to happen. Guess it's gonna make sense later on. I just dont know, and the death penalty is just trivial to me, but theres nothing we can do about it. Tookie's fate has already caught up with him, and its his time to go.

[lakerfever2476]

I kind of think Tookie has it the easy road. I know it sucks dying and everything, but look at how he gets to die; peacefully in his sleep. And is it true they get a last meal and everything? Look at how his victims died. With a gunshot.

[HongKongDong]

The tragedy of all this, its gonna be endlessly repeated. Then people are willing to take anothers life because of lust and their desire to get revenge, bending everything to their will to get their way. Its a thrill intense enough to make a guy shudder. He was a man enslaved to ecstacy. Co-founder of the crips charged for murder of 4 people. Things are just gonna shake and everythings gonna spark. In the end,it just means another grusome party.

But its done and over with, Tookie should be long dead by now.

^Peace? You think hes gonna die peacefully? It doesn't matter how a person dies, a person not ready to accept their death will never die in peace.

[lakerfever2476]

^ Well of course, no one dies "in peace". Maybe I used the wrong words? But Tookie died resting in a padded "dentist's chair" while his victims died with gunshots. You see my point?

[sadolakced acid]

who's to say he won't die in peace except himself?


have you ever died? have you ever been executed? then how can you proclaim to know how it will feel?

[illumineering]

^ Well of course, no one dies "in peace". Maybe I used the wrong words? But Tookie died resting in a padded "dentist's chair" while his victims died with gunshots. You see my point?

No. I don't see your point at all. Peace is an individual's choice. It's certainly not dictated by a chair or any other thing.

[*kryogenix*]

I just read more on Mr. Tookie. It says he continued to participate in the crips even behind bars and would not give cops information on gang activities because he didn't want to be a snitch. I guess he hasn't changed as much as I thought he had.

[*RiC3xBoy*]

Well Kyro, he claims he wont snitch because he doesn't ever want to harm another human being, even if it is a gang member. It just depends how you perceive it.

Also, he did not have a last meal. He says he didn't do it and having a last meal of whatever he wants its just basically admitting he did it.

Another issue I think in which criminals get the death penalty is because of tax payer's money going into providing food for criminals.

Look at how his victims died. With a gunshot.

Unless you have real proof he actually did it, I don't think you should going around claiming he killed them.

[yo pusha]

It says he continued to participate in the crips even behind bars and would not give cops information on gang activities because he didn't want to be a snitch.

or because he wanted to stay alive? although i dont believe tookie "changed", i do believe that a man could reform and not snitch. those 2 things are not dependant on each other

Unless you have real proof he actually did it, I don't think you should going around claiming he killed them.

dumbest statement ever. unless you have real proof that he didnt do it, then just exit this thread. smh. who has real proof that he didn't do it? tookie has been waiting on death row for more than 20 years, and his lawyers got 20 years to try and prove his innocence, and they couldn't. the only people who know if he is guilty or not are tookie himself, his associates, and the victims. and god i guess, if you believe in that kind of thing.

not be granted clemency on the basis that he's hasn't reformed.

yall act like a governor grants clemency the majority of the time. please. its not arnolds fault, he is just agreeing with the numerous courts that rejected williams. the last governor to grant clemency in the state of california i believe was ronald reagan. the last president that was not pro-death penalty was also reagan. and that was 1967. if tookie was granted clemency, then every immate could start writing books and "reforming" just so they wouldnt die.

[Spirited Away]

So who gets to kill the guy with the needle?

http://www.createblog.com/forums/index.php...=80797&hl=death

Differences, argue them there.

[*kryogenix*]

[b]Well Kyro, he claims he wont snitch because he doesn't ever want to harm another human being, even if it is a gang member. It just depends how you perceive it.

Even if the information he gives could prevent the gang member from harming another human being?

[d0t0rg]

He's an unrepentant former gang leader and murderer.  He should never get out of prison.  I'm not a supporter of the death penalty, so I think it's reasonable that he spends the rest of his natural life in prison.

He can still send out orders if he was alive.

[lakerfever2476]

Also, he did not have a last meal. He says he didn't do it and having a last meal of whatever he wants its just basically admitting he did it.

Well, didn't he have the choice of getting a last meal?

[*RiC3xBoy*]

dumbest statement ever. unless you have real proof that he didnt do it, then just exit this thread. smh. who has real proof that he didn't do it? tookie has been waiting on death row for more than 20 years, and his lawyers got 20 years to try and prove his innocence, and they couldn't. the only people who know if he is guilty or not are tookie himself, his associates, and the victims. and god i guess, if you believe in that kind of thing.

Dumbest statement ever? Yeah.....exactly how is it dumb?

Just because his lawyers couldn't prove his innocense, doesn't mean he did it. I could write my name your homework and claim I did and all the people in the world might believe me, but it doesn't make me right.

Even if the information he gives could prevent the gang member from harming another human being?

I don't recall someone asking him this, so I guess you would have to ask him yourself, but I guess its a little late.

[sadolakced acid]

innocenct untill proven guilty. but when proven guilty, he's guilty.

he's not on death row because some jury aquitted him.

[*kryogenix*]

I don't recall someone asking him this, so I guess you would have to ask him yourself, but I guess its a little late.

Check the Wikipedia article.

The Los Angeles Police Department, the Los Angeles County District Attorney, and other law enforcement doubted that Williams had reformed, saying that he refused to divulge information on other gang members, or debrief officials on the tactics and communication methods that gangs use. Williams said he didn't want to be a "snitch." [34]

[technicolour]

^ Some change.

Also..when he was..well...when he was trying to fight off the stuff in the needle..he kept trying to keep his head up and was trying to scare a few of the people watching..

[Mulder]

he was obviously an awful person. but being from texas, where half the lethal injections of the U.S. are done...

im completely and utterly against the death penatly. no matter what. why not let someone feel guilty for the rest of their life, locked in an 8 x 10 prison cell?

[EndlessSite]

I don't think they should have done what they did to Tookie. People seem to overlook the fact that he is still human and humans make mistakes.

Personally, I don't believe in the death penalty and I think gangs are stupid and a cry for attention. Tookie didn't have a good childhood like most kids should and I don't know what its like to live in that kind of neighborhood where violence is held high, but I do know that Tookie was just trying to survive then.

There was no proof that he killed someone, so I don't know what to say when it comes to that but 'Maybe he did, Maybe he didn't.' People just look on the outside of things and say 'Yeah, he's just another poor azz black kid that shot people and ran around like he was crazy. We'll give him the boot and go on with the rest of our lives.'

To end it, I think they just should have let him live the rest of his life in prison. That penalty was just out of line.

[technicolour]

I don't think they should have done what they did to Tookie. People seem to overlook the fact that he is still human and humans make mistakes.

Last I checked not every human made the mistake of killing 4 people point blank.

[EndlessSite]

Last I checked not every human made the mistake of killing 4 people point blank.

Really? You walk around the entire world, shook their hand and asked, 'Have you ever made a mistake by killing 4 people?'

...........

Didn't think so.


Tookie was raised in a neighborhood where people beat other people, possibly for fun. If he was taught to do that to survive then so be it, form of self defense.

If that was even so, did you ask him why he killed them?

.........

Didn't think that either.

[technicolour]

HOW ON EARTH CAN KILLING FOUR PEOPLE POINT BLANK BE CONSIDERED SELF DEFENSE?!

[EndlessSite]

lol. Someone getting angry?

You want an example? I'll give you one.

Some one points a gun at you and threatens to kill you. Naturally, you have one to and its an even trade.

Who's life you gonna give up? Yours or his?

[EndlessSite]

*sigh* Pisses me off when someone judges without knowing the background of that person.

[technicolour]

And I take it you know the background of Mr. Tookie? You know how he lived, what he did, and even possible his favorite color?

It "pisses me off" at how naive people are.

[sadolakced acid]

i'd like to remind you not to double post, just use the edit button.

and i'd also like to point out that humans do make mistakes, but they must be punished for them if they are to learn from it.

[*disco infiltrator*]

Can you learn from something you're killed over?

[EndlessSite]

And I take it you know the background of Mr. Tookie? You know how he lived, what he did, and even possible his favorite color?

It "pisses me off" at how naive people are.

Yeah, I actually do. I've see the movie about his life, 'Redemption'. You should see it some time.

I've also read articles that were about him.

______________

^ Yeah, but put him to death?! That was a bit over the top, in my opinion. If it were you, you'd probably be trembling in your shoes. No one wants to die like that.

[sadolakced acid]

^ just because a movie says frodo threw the ring into mount doom doens't mean it's true.

how do you know he was afraid of death? the great tookie, co-founder of the crips, afraid of something as petty as death?

no, i think you're projecting your fear of death onto others.

Can you learn from something you're killed over?

no, but others may learn from example.

[EndlessSite]

^  just because a movie says frodo threw the ring into mount doom doens't mean it's true.

how do you know he was afraid of death?  the great tookie, co-founder of the crips, afraid of something as petty as death? 

For one, have you ever heard of fiction and non fiction?

Secondly, can you tell the difference between the two?

And I never said that Tookie himself was afraid of death. You're turning my words around.

[*disco infiltrator*]

Obviously not, seeing as we are still having to resort to the death penalty. If someone is killing multiple others, do you think they care if they die? Just like you said - him, afraid of death? If he supposedly killed someone, do you think that he is afraid of his own death?

Those who kill others have something different about them. Their minds are working much differently than you and I. Personally, I couldn't ever bring myself to kill someone. I can barely hurt someone without feeling incredibly bad, no matter the motive. I simply couldn't let myself do that, just like I couldn't bring myself to steal from a store. It's not me. My mind doesn't work in a way that allows myself to do that.

Murderers don't have a problem with killing others. Their minds work differently than mine. They need help fitting into a society where we don't kill others, because they have a mind that does not fit in with the rules and guidelines of our society. Setting any punishment, much less their own death, is not going to prevent this from happening. The only thing that can prevent it is catching the difference sooner and trying to help the person early on.

But, anyway - let's not turn this into the death penalty thread. :P

[sadolakced acid]

No one wants to die like that.

and there is quite a bit of difference between fact and nonfiction.

[illumineering]

Some one points a gun at you and threatens to kill you. Naturally, you have one to and its an even trade.

This example has nothing to do w/ Tookie. None of the four people he killed had guns. He shot one in the back twice. He was committing robberies at the time of the killings. Self-defense had nothing to do with his actions.

[Spirited Away]

Yeah, I actually do. I've see the movie about his life, 'Redemption'. You should see it some time.

I've also read articles that were about him.

... You saw a movie (not a documentary), based your opinions upon a movie, and asked someone if he knew the difference between fiction and non-fiction?

^ Yeah, but put him to death?! That was a bit over the top, in my opinion. If it were you, you'd probably be trembling in your shoes. No one wants to die like that.

No one wants to die from getting shot by a gang leader either, but four people did in Tookie's case.

There are people who cannot pick and choose how they die. However, there are people— like Tookie, who know how to kill and recognize all the consequences, but do it anyway. He put people to death, FOUR in fact, and instigated similar acts of violence by co-founding Crisp. Giving him death is not over the top, in my opinion, it's justice.

If it were me, I wouldn't kill four people in cold blood so I don't have to "tremble" in my shoes. Logic is wonderful, why don't these killers use it?

[AngryBaby]

life in prision is very cushy.

if i'm ever homeless and know i can't get death row, i'll rob a bank.

get away- you're rich.

get caught- free hotel forever. don't have to work if you're a murderer, cus they won't trust you with tools.

sounds like a nice retirement plan for gang members.

says the guy that has no idea what so ever what prison is like...

[Spirited Away]

says the guy that has no idea what so ever what prison is like...

Well, let see, you kill people and you go to a place where other criminals, who are most likely your friends, or people who share the same interest as you, hang out. The place has got recreation and sports, a library, opportunities to continue your education, though you have to do community work, you can relax to cable television since some prisons allow subscription. Although there are problems like prison gangs, I'm almost positive that a legend like Tookie Williams don't have much to worry about, unless they're rival gangs. Even if the latter is the case, I'm sure his life experience have taught him the proverbial "you reap what you sow".



edition: added "who are most likely your friends, or people who share the same interest as you".

This post has been edited by Spirited Away: Dec 14 2005, 11:48 PM

[Tribal J_Rome]

Well, let see, you kill people and you go to a place where other criminals hang out. The place has got recreation and sports, a library, opportunities to continue your education, though you have to do community work, you can relax to cable television since some prisons allow subscription. Although there are problems like prison gangs, I'm almost positive that a legend like Tookie Williams don't have much to worry about, unless they're rival gangs. Even if the latter is the case, I'm sure his life experience have taught him the proverbial "you reap what you sow".

you forgot about the part where the other inmates take turns playing buttdarts with you without you having to drop the soap

[Spirited Away]

you forgot about the part where the other inmates take turns playing buttdarts with you without you having to drop the soap

Are you telling me that someone at Tookie's legend status would suffer the same? I think not. Actually, it sounds like Tookie would have been the one throwing darts.

[Tribal J_Rome]

^well why don't u go to jail for 20+ years and see if u actually enjoy it. nobody wants to be in there, nobody chooses to be in prison. yah u get all that fun stuff u just listed but only one thing that isn't present makes it all hell: freedom.

[sadolakced acid]

kill enough people before going in and they don't putyou with other prisoners.

[Spirited Away]

^well why don't u go to jail for 20+ years and see if u actually enjoy it. nobody wants to be in there, nobody chooses to be in prison. yah u get all that fun stuff u just listed but only one thing that isn't present makes it all hell: freedom.

... Nobody chooses to be in prison? Hello, nobody chooses to get shot and killed either! I'm sure prison isn't an enjoyable place, but it is NOT Hell either. However, the only thing these f**king cold blooded killers deserve IS HELL or something very close to it.

Are you telling me that Tookie didn't know that shooting folks in the back mulitiple times can kill them?

When you kill that many people, freedom should be the last thing you worry about.

This post has been edited by Spirited Away: Dec 15 2005, 12:08 AM

[Tribal J_Rome]

... Nobody chooses to be in prison? Hello, nobody chooses to get shot and killed either! I'm sure prison isn't an enjoyable place, but it is NOT Hell either. However, the only thing these f**king cold blooded killers deserve IS HELL or something very close to it.

Are you telling me that Tookie didn't know that shooting folks in the back mulitiple times can kill them?

ur not getting the point, Tookie didn't shoot those 4 ppl and go to the police station afterwards and brag "YAH I KILLED THOSE PPL, LET ME IN!". it was a robbery, OBVIOUSLY he thought he wasn't gonna get caught.

[Spirited Away]

ur not getting the point, Tookie didn't shoot those 4 ppl and go to the police station afterwards and brag "YAH I KILLED THOSE PPL, LET ME IN!". it was a robbery, OBVIOUSLY he thought he wasn't gonna get caught.

I'm not getting the point? It was a robbery, take the damn things and LEAVE! Don't shoot people!!! Actually, a better way not to get caught is not to have gone robbing honest folks. What is there not to get? Are you telling me that Tookie was dumb and didn't know shooting folks will get him jailed and punished? Or maybe you're telling me that Tookie didn't know that shooting folks can actually kill them?

[Tribal J_Rome]

maaaaaannnnn. i just stated my point and u didn't even get it. im not gonna bother anymore lol

[sadolakced acid]

so you mean, because he thought he could evade justice, he should?

[Spirited Away]

maaaaaannnnn. i just stated my point and u didn't even get it. im not gonna bother anymore lol

Uh, what point didn't I get? Would you clarify? Is anyone else not getting this aside from me?

[yo pusha]

Didn't think so.
Tookie was raised in a neighborhood where people beat other people, possibly for fun. If he was taught to do that to survive then so be it, form of self defense.

Man, dude killed 4 people over 120 dollars. Then proceded to call the dead asians "Buddha Heads".

[lakerfever2476]

Man, dude killed 4 people over 120 dollars. Then proceded to call the dead asians

Omg yea thats what I heard

[vash1530]

he deserved to die and know hes dead so he got what he deserved.