presentation on other cultures in public schools Options

[*disco infiltrator*]

A couple weeks ago, a Muslim family in Porter Lakes schools in Porter County, Indiana, made a presentation to the entire second grade and one third grade class at Porter Lakes Elementary School. Upon hearing this, many parents were upset about not being asked permission for this children to attend this presentation.

The couple that put on the presentation insists that it was only to initiate knowledge of the practices of the religion so their children, who attend the school, wouldn't be made fun of because others didn't know why they did things such as wearing the hijab, or headscarf, or pray 5 times a day, etc. It was just to inform. However, many other parents in the school district claim that their child is being influenced and may convert to the religion through hearing these things.

Some quotes from a few parents heard at the board meeting about the issue:
"I'm not racist, but when it comes to Muslim people, I have some concern."
"I didn't answer my child's questions on the subject because one, I don't know, and two, she doesn't need to know."
"There should have definitely been a permission slip sent home because I would have never allowed that. I don't want my child to see these things or be around these types of people."
"I don't understand why they don't just go to a private school anyway."

There was also talk of a "prayer room" set aside for the Muslim children due to the requirements of the religion (praying 5 times a day - two of these occur during the school day). National law says public schools have to accomodate each student - no matter what the circumstances.

A quote from one concerned mother: "If they're going to let some students have religion present in the school, they should do it for all. I request that an altar be put in for my Catholic boy." (Though, Catholicism doesn't require any participants to pray at any certain time of the day, and, in most schools, after the Pledge of Allegiance is said, a "moment of silence" is set aside and children can pray then.)

Now, due to advice from the school's principal, the family has opened up their home to anyone who wants to look around to assure people that they are not terrorists. However, one of the men on the police force for the area has been eyeing them carefully. He is constantly parked outside their house and has grilled their neighbor for information for them, even though he has run their name through the police computers and has found no terrorist ties.




Discuss. I'm pretty sure no one's thoughts on the issue on this site will differ all too much from mine, or anyone else's, but it's a good topic, IMO.

This school is about 15 minutes away from where I live, by the way. Just so you know how I knew about all of this.

[Heathasm]

well im all for learning more about other cultures, i wish schools would get into that more . . .not cultures that are DEAD but cultures that are living and breathing in this day and age.

The couple that put on the presentation insists that it was only to initiate knowledge of the practices of the religion so their children, who attend the school, wouldn't be made fun of because others didn't know why they did things such as wearing the hijab, or headscarf, or pray 5 times a day, etc. It was just to inform. However, many other parents in the school district claim that their child is being influenced and may convert to the religion through hearing these things

i think they are doing it for the wrong reasons, though. kids get made fun of for various things, this really isnt any different but it sort of ties into ignorance for other cultures anyway

[*disco infiltrator*]

But don't you think it would be better for these kids to know about the culture, not only because of that, but oh maybe because we are having a war with these people? Shouldn't we know why the argument started in the first place?

Oh, and just to mention, our superintendant said no to a presentation at our school done by the same people because "it would cause too much controversy". Same guy who doesn't want us to go to France because of terrorism, even though there's like, a bazillion times more of a chance we'll get killed by terrorists here...

[b0st0ngrl]

I think that the parents were overreacting a little. All those quotes from the parents were very racist, in my opinion.

About the "prayer room", I think it is kind of unfair because if they do that, then soon parents will be saying they need this and that. I'm not saying it's a stupid idea, I'm just saying there are probably simpler solutions to that.

[*disco infiltrator*]

Like what?
Letting the Mulsim students perform their prayers in front of the other children?

Yes, because that would go over well with the other parents, I'm sure. If they want to keep their kids away from it so much, why would they not support keeping their kids away from it?

There are certain times of the day the prayers have to happen. Two of them occur during the school day. There's not much else they can do about it - the kids have to pray towards Mecca at these certain times. It's not like a luxurious accomodation - they set off a little corner in the teacher's lounge that the kids can go to during the certain times of day to pray. If any other kid needed this, they would get it. It's an accomodation made by law.

[LordAwesome]

i attended that school. and it is shallow and ignorant to be upset about this sort of thing. those comments are born of insecurities and misconceptions that are perpetuated by our media.

[Heathasm]

But don't you think it would be better for these kids to know about the culture, not only because of that, but oh maybe because we are having a war with these people? Shouldn't we know why the argument started in the first place?

haha yeah that should be the number one reason
but were they even planning on talking about the war?

Oh, and just to mention, our superintendant said no to a presentation at our school done by the same people because "it would cause too much controversy". Same guy who doesn't want us to go to France because of terrorism, even though there's like, a bazillion times more of a chance we'll get killed by terrorists here...

they should be more willing to do good for the school instead of worrying about how much trouble it will take to do

[*disco infiltrator*]

Our superintendent's an idiot..just wanted to point out what kind of place I live in.....

No, they didn't talk about the war, but it's for the sake of knowledge. Currently, not too many people know ANYTHING about the people we're fighting. If we're off killing people, shouldn't we know a little bit about them, what they do, what their culture is like? Also, understanding their culture would make us all see why they're show so much contempt for our culture.

[mai_z]

"I'm not racist, but when it comes to Muslim people, I have some concern."

Ummm ok....yea ....sure....

" the family has opened up their home to anyone who wants to look around to assure people that they are not terrorists"

umm ok....Maybe I should open up my house now, so everyone knows that I don't eat dogs or something...


I don't think the presentation should have caused so much controversy, however, I feel that if they wanted to keep the children from being made fun of...this was not the way to do it.

[*disco infiltrator*]

Perhaps I should clarify, again.

That wasn't the main purpose. The purpose was for knowledge, which, indirectly, keeps the kids from making fun of their children. That was their personal purpose, but even so it's better to know. Even if we weren't in a war, school is a place for knowledge. Why not spread the knowledge? If someone tells you, you are much more likely to understand and not be discriminatory, to ALL people, not just their kids.

[*mona lisa*]

I basically agree with you, Sammi. It's despicable to see people thinking Oh, they're Muslim, therefore they must have terrorist links. They need to think it through and realize that the actions of a few doesn't hold that entire population responsible. If the parents are so against their children learning about Islam, shouldn't they know the staright facts ar least before making assumptions and/or stupid conclusions? I'm sure that if a presentation was given on another religion, they wouldn't react like that. If they did, then with not as much opposition.

[*disco infiltrator*]

Not only a presentation on another religion...anything to do with another religion. Half of our school's breaks are made because of Christian religions. Any kid can get off for church-related things, but not others. And the parents aren't only mad about the presentation as you can see from the one parent's comment about them going to a private school...

There's only one Islamic school in Northwest Indiana. There's rumors about it opening up to accept non-Islamic students who can opt out of the Islamic religious classes and Arabic language classes.

It's funny how those being discriminated against can be so open-minded to those who are being discriminatory..

[mai_z]

Sorry...the knowledge thing is good. Parents send their kids to school to learn, and now they're learning. What's the problem? Even in Catholic schools, you learn about world religions... People are too close minded...

[*mona lisa*]

Not only a presentation on another religion...anything to do with another religion. Half of our school's breaks are made because of Christian religions. Any kid can get off for church-related things, but not others. And the parents aren't only mad about the presentation as you can see from the one parent's comment about them going to a private school...

There's only one Islamic school in Northwest Indiana. There's rumors about it opening up to accept non-Islamic students who can opt out of the Islamic religious classes and Arabic language classes.

It's funny how those being discriminated against can be so open-minded to those who are being discriminatory..

I find that very inconvenient. So the majority of your school is Christian?

This is more personal, but you'd think that will all the preaching pastors do about being open-minded and respecting to others, Christians would actually learn to follow it. (I don't mean all Christians, so don't start a war here with me.) Why repress teaching children about the world they live in if you're supposed to live life? I don't get it. I see all these (what do you call it? worship services?) things where there's a man up there preaching Christian beliefs and everyone is cheering/clapping/singing joyfully about what he's preaching. But if you don't follow the beliefs, what's the point of being tru to your religion?
(Sorry, that was more like ranting.)

[*disco infiltrator*]

I agree completely with you.

Yes, a majority is Christian; not just of my school, but the entire region.

[Spirited Away]

Hmm, I think a notice to parents would have been a good idea when schools opt for guest speakers to make presentations to elementary school students. At that age, a child's cognitive abilities may not be so developed as to understand certain issues and are sensitive to the information that's presented to them. They're curious and the parents of these children may not be the most qualified people to satiate such curiosities.

It's unfortunate the children who were made curious by the presentation may not look to their parents to further their knowledge without bias and discriminatory attitudes, such as the one whose parent said that he/she "didn't need to know". Seeing how a child's understanding of the issue is limitted, he/she will be sway by his/her parents attitudes and may think of what he/she have learned in a negative light.

If I were a parent, I would appreciate a notice. I think that my child would have more of a chance to form his/her own opinion if he/she were a bit older and not allow him/her to attend the presentation. This is strictly an age problem to me. If my child expresses interest about religion or has false views about religions at that age, I would not prohibit his/her learning. However, coming to them in a classroom environment is almost like forcing them to sit through a sermon, even if that was never the purpose. It doesn't matter the religion that was talked about. I would feel the same if a Christian, Buddhist, or Jew made the presentation.

[fameONE]

Welcome to the ignorant Land of the Oppressed.

These "wholesome" midwest mothers seem to forget about the crusades, in which Christians went out to slaughter all those who opposed Christianity.

Or maybe we should avert our focus to the media and blame the ring wing of America for implying that the Muslim faith is synonomous with terrorism.

When it comes to religion in school, I'm all for seperation of church and state (you know this about me, Sammi), but under no circumstances should anyone else tell another person what they should or shouldn't believe.

In this case, sheltering the children from a harmless presentation on how another culture lives is absolute lunacy and it adds to our digression in societal advancement.

Its unfortunate, but racism isn't dead.

[*mona lisa*]

Hmm, I think a notice to parents would have been a good idea when schools opt for guest speakers to make presentations to elementary school students. At that age, a child's cognitive abilities may not be so developed as to understand certain issues and are sensitive to the information that's presented to them. They're curious and the parents of these children may not be the most qualified people to satiate such curiosities.

It's unfortunate the children who were made curious by the presentation may not look to their parents to further their knowledge without bias and discriminatory attitudes, such as the one whose parent said that he/she "didn't need to know". Seeing how a child's understanding of the issue is limitted, he/she will be sway by his/her parents attitudes and may think of what he/she have learned in a negative light.

If I were a parent, I would appreciate a notice. I think that my child would have more of a chance to form his/her own opinion if he/she were a bit older and not allow him/her to attend the presentation. This is strictly an age problem to me. If my child expresses interest about religion or has false views about religions at that age, I would not prohibit his/her learning. However, coming to them in a classroom environment is almost like forcing them to sit through a sermon, even if that was never the purpose. It doesn't matter the religion that was talked about. I would feel the same if a Christian, Buddhist, or Jew made the presentation.

I understand what you're saying, but what opinion would the child need to form on his/her own when they are a bit older? They don't exactly have to express an interest in a particular religion to learn the basic tenets of that religion and learn to leave the other children to pray in peace. Why do they need to be made fun of simply because they practice a religion that is different from their own? The purpose of the presentation was to inform the non-Muslim children so that they could understand why their fellow classmates pray five times a day, why most girls where a hijab, etc. I agree with you in that a notice should have been given out, although if it were a permission slip, do you really think the parents would let their child go to school that day and listen to the presentation? Most likely not. It's fine if the parents don't want their child exposed to certain things at a young age, but if it will teach them new values, then why should the parents be worried? It's also fine if the parents don't want to teach their child(ren) certain things, but this is life. It's most likely that when they get older, the child will encounter at least one Muslim person. If they are taught to turn their heads on them at a young age, they won't exactly be kind and respectful to them at an elder age.

[Spirited Away]

I understand what you're saying, but what opinion would the child need to form on his/her own when they are a bit older? They don't exactly have to express an interest in a particular religion to learn the basic tenets of that religion and learn to leave the other children to pray in peace. Why do they need to be made fun of simply because they practice a religion that is different from their own? The purpose of the presentation was to inform the non-Muslim children so that they could understand why their fellow classmates pray five times a day, why most girls where a hijab, etc. I agree with you in that a notice should have been given out, although if it were a permission slip, do you really think the parents would let their child go to school that day and listen to the presentation? Most likely not.

What I meant by forming their own opinions at an older age would be for the benefit of not being swayed by negative attitudes of their parents. As in a child could think "isn't Mom being a little too irrational/weird about this whole thing?" as oppose to "Mommy is bigger, she knows a lot more than I do."

Ideally, my child, at that age, would first look at a Muslim and identify him/her as just another person. To achieve that, they must learn that differences in appearances and opinions are normal, not something to be goggled at or preached about. When children are first exposed to Barney, we do not explain to them that he's a purple dinosaur who sings and do cool tricks. Children just know for a fact that Barney is different in that he makes them happy. When children first see a person of a different race, we do not tell them that the person is of a darker or lighter skin-tone, they can see it on their own. Should they be curious as to why, we should tell them and if they want to know more, we should encourage them to learn. However, if they can accept that a person is just a person, no matter clothes or skin color, why force them to know? Would we have a Black/Hispanic/Asian person speak about why he's Black/Hispanic/Asian to a group of elementary schoolers? If not, why should we have a Muslim speak about why he/she wears a veil or pray five times a day? Why do they need to know, I guess at that certain age, is what I'm asking.

I completely endorse the teaching of this knowledge at, lets say junior high school to be safe, but second graders? I'm really uncomfortable with that.

This post has been edited by Spirited Away: Nov 9 2005, 10:43 PM

[*disco infiltrator*]

Well, it's not like they go in-depth about the Muslim religion. It's basically "Some of you go to church and some of you go to temple and learn about your religion and what to do and what God says, right? Well, in our religion, the Muslim religion, our God tells us to wear a headscarf around our heads if we are girls. We are told to conceal our beauty until we get married." or something along those lines. Of course second-graders aren't going to understand everything, but it would be logical that the parents would have summarized what their children had learned at the mosque and know as second-graders, no? They're not telling them to believe or whatever, just explaining.

Oh, and the school has had Christianity and Jewish presentations before, explaining certain holidays and the basis of the religions.

In both my school and that school district, senior year, we read "Religions of Man", a book that goes completely in-depth on every religion present (and some that have died out). But I think it's better to introduce these religions even at a young age. Now, instead, these kids will not think, "Why is that weird girl wearing that sheet on her head? It's not Halloween." and instead think, "Oh, there's the Muslim girl. I guess she hasn't met her husband yet." or something.

[verlorenrivets]

I'm going to have to agree with Disco Infiltrator on this one.

Little kids aren't going to convert to Muslim just because there was a presentation on it at their school. We go out in elementary school to Amish country, and not once has a child wanted to actually be amish so much as to convert and move out there. Presenting world religion should be something to be done in schools. A school is supposed to be a place for free flowing knowledge, correct? Why restrict that to just christian and jewish holidays? Oh. Now I get it. You want to restrict knowledge. You don't want there to be choices, even if they aren't appealing and would never convert someone. What a jerk.

Consider that the children's parents have already taken them to whatever place of worship they want them to go to. Kids will not go against their parents until around middleschool. Teaching children of religions while they are young will have a less likelihood of the kids wanting to change their religion. It would just promote diversity at a young age. If you introduce it to a kid who's going through an identity crisis (aka middleschool), they'll be more likely to throw out their parent's religion. Which come to think of it isn't such a bad thing.

Nevermind my first sentence. I think I'm fencewalking.

[evanbunnell]

One day, when I've made enough money and have enough time on my hands, I'm going to go on an Ignorance Crusade. Travel throughout the US and cleanse all of the ignorant arguments and closed-minded idiots. I'll do this for the sake of knowledge.

"Knowing is only half the battle!" - GI Joe.

[*disco infiltrator*]

^ YOU STOLE MY PLAN!!!

Wade, use my name....I hate when people that know me call me by my username! Creeps me out..

[verlorenrivets]

^ YOU STOLE MY PLAN!!!

Wade, use my name....I hate when people that know me call me by my username! Creeps me out..

I was testing the waters with that. Thank you for letting me know.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Some quotes from a few parents heard at the board meeting about the issue:
"I'm not racist, but when it comes to Muslim people, I have some concern."

that's still racism stupid parents! I mean in my school, we always present to the whole school our culture. Not to influence but to be proud of ourselves and celebrate diversity.

But even IF the family was trying to influence the kids, I don't think the children would've taken it seriously and actually ask their parents to convert... They don't think about those kind of stuff yet (i think).

People shouldn't take presentations like that a little tooooo seriously.

But I bet that if it was a Christian family who presented, no one would've complained except for the Muslims....

[evanbunnell]

People shouldn't take presentations like that a little tooooo seriously.

Long Response: No. They should take it seriously. They should learn and understand what the other religion is all about. What they shouldn't do is go stark mad and think that their kids are trying to be "converted". Hopefully, if they were understanding parents, when the kids were old enough to decide for their own they'd allow them to flock to whichever faith they feel most comfortable with. I'm gracious that when I told my mom I was agnostic leaning to atheist that she didn't try to keep me in the previous Christian faith.

Short Response: It is very serious, though, yet not to be taken out of context.

[*reflection*]

But I bet that if it was a Christian family who presented, no one would've complained except for the Muslims....

i doubt the Muslim parents would complain. the families are complaining about the presentation because of the war and terrorists and all of that.