the increasingly inaptly named cB rev 2.0, (By- laws or something like it) Options

[sadolakced acid]

yea. no changes, no complaints. so this should not be in feedback.

a thread to comment about the new staff selection.

(ok so this is a complaint, this part, but it's not the main part of the thread)
i for one don't like the practice of deleting applications after the new staffers are announced. i think some of us would like to be able to see who's application was better. of course, it could open up the selection people to criticism (if people think the application sucked), but sometime public criticism is a good thing.

right. now on to the main part.

were you suprised at any of the selections, or who wasn't selected?


i was quite expecting michael to be people staff. maybe his app sucked, the world will never know...

[*jooleeah*]

When I saw this topic, it scared me for a second, haha.

I was actually expecting Michael to be a mod, too. Hrmmm.

[*lolita kitty*]

hm, well im not surprised. everyone who i thought would make it made it.
i was somewhat expecting micheal to become a mod though, also.

[*mzkandi*]

I dont think reading the applications after the hiring is done is that important. In fact, I dont think they factor much at all in the modding process. The way a member carries themself around the forums and contributes speaks volumes.

[Looow]

I agree with Kiera. I don't think it is necessary. Wouldn't it just cause more drama too?

[freeflow]

I am supprised on one/two of the choices because i had a few people i really hoped would make it , since there great people. The choices that were made were good ones though .

[sadolakced acid]

I dont think reading the applications after the hiring is done is that important. In fact, I dont think they factor much at all in the modding process. The way a member carries themself around the forums and contributes speaks volumes.

then what, pray tell, exactly is the point of applications...

and if it's not judged from apps, then isn't it kinda biased to favor those liked by the selection people?

[*mzkandi*]

Notice I said "factor much" in the modding process. How much of this factor it plays in the actually modding process, I dont know. Why dont you ask Jusun? All I know is, how well a application is written is not the most important in the modding process, thus not essential to keep open after the modding process is over.

[sadolakced acid]

ahh well let's try to keep it away from that topic, shall we?

if needed i'll edit the name to something like.. suprised?

[sadolakced acid]

well, i was suprised alvin... er... maestro, wasn't selected. i'm not too familar with the design section, but he seems pretty dedicated to me...



i guess, if you want to, move this to feedback and change it to a topic about deleting the applications after announcing the hires... but i'd prefer leaving that till some actual mudslinging is going on...

[Levy2k6]

i havent been around for the last two weeks so i don't really know what is going down here right now.. i see what ur talking about tho.

[Heewee]

I, for one, was very happy to see the people who were selected as mods get selected. Yes, there were some people that weren't chosen that would have made great mods as well but like it was already stated many times previously, there were only a limited amount of spots open. I think that those hired were hired for a reason and will do a wonderful job. As far as the applications go, not only do I think that they were considered when deciding which canidates to select for the posistions, but it also gave an opportunity for those applying to show some effort and dedication. I am very pleased. Congratulations and good luck to the new mods

[sadolakced acid]

yea, i'm not saying the people selected will be bad mods, because i think it would take a monkey on a power trip to be a bad mod (but that's my opinion of a bad mod, which is one who deletes and closes random threads, IP bans you for saying helll, etc. )

i think they'll do a fine job, but i wasn't exactly expecting them...

what are the factors that are used to judge mod applicants anyways? it's not the app, so is it likablility? signature? following of rules? general attitude? opinions of the public?

EDIT

yea this is probably going to turn into a complaint about how we don't know how mods are selected, and i'll draw criticism from the staff because "you don't need to know" and " you're just stirring up trouble", but if it does, feel free to move to feedback.

[micron]

hi there,
this time around, i chose the new staff members based on the number of times they appeared on the old staff's new staff list. heh, what a mouthful. as someone mentioned, there were so many qualified candidates but only so many spots available.

if you're concerned about transparancy, which is a very good thing for cb, i recommend you start a petition to create the bylaws for createblog. that way, everyone will know exactly what and how every process works.

[Heathasm]

well, i was suprised alvin...  er... maestro, wasn't selected.  i'm not too familar with the design section, but he seems pretty dedicated to me...

there are many reasons why he wasn't chosen...dedication isnt every thing

[*disco infiltrator*]

*sigh* Justiiiiin..

I was also surprised, but I'm not disappointed in the new ones. They are good choices..there's just some I would have chosen otherwise.

[*Weird addiction*]

I am actually surprised that suzzette got picked.

[EddieV]

I think instead of Apps, we should have like a bunch of people see the people's personality as well, like you know seeing how they are when on cB and online. I mean Apps too but lets say someone who's really good can't write good Apps. They're basically screwed.

P.S. I think I made no sense....

[*incoherent*]

jusun, are you meaning that you picked the staff based on the current staff's picks? that confused me how you worded it.

anyways, as many were, i was surprised michael didnt get it. ah well. its done and over with. nothing we can do now.

it seems as though the girls really out number the guys though. i think there are 4? guys on the whole staff (not counting jusun). maybe its just that girls are better.

[Heathasm]

I am actually surprised that suzzette got picked.

why is that surprising?

[racoons > you]

can i just say, if a set of by-laws is written for CB, can we PLEASE have non-staff input?

in terms of CB, many of the staff are mildly to extremely conservative, and if the staff are being selected from staff picks (there is NO non-confusing way to word that succinctly), then we are likely to get a lot of people with the same views....

i wasnt AT ALL dissapointed with this staff selection, and actually, i wasntTHAT surprised by micahel not being modded... it was only the first tim ehe had aapplied, and other people have been around longer, have made more of an impact on the community etc... he would have been good though. mind you, so would i... ah well.

p.s. i like justin. justin is good.

[*kryogenix*]

in terms of CB, many of the staff are mildly to extremely conservative, and if the staff are being selected from staff picks (there is NO non-confusing way to word that succinctly), then we are likely to get a lot of people with the same views....

Are you serious? I think I'm the only conservative on staff right now. Everyone else seems to be on my left.

[edit] There would always be one other conservative, first it was Kathleen, then uninspiredfae, but they're both gone now.

[racoons > you]

no, i didnt mean in terms of actual politics, i meant in terms of like 'cb politics' e.g. making changes, listening to members, etc.

[*mzkandi*]

Ok...this should be in feedback if relates the some sort of by-laws for cB.

Moved to feedback

[*tweeak*]

well, i was suprised alvin...  er... maestro, wasn't selected.  i'm not too familar with the design section, but he seems pretty dedicated to me...
i guess, if you want to, move this to feedback and change it to a topic about deleting the applications after announcing the hires...  but i'd prefer leaving that till some actual mudslinging is going on...

yeah, there's definitely reasons why he wasn't.

hi there,
this time around, i chose the new staff members based on the number of times they appeared on the old staff's new staff list. heh, what a mouthful. as someone mentioned, there were so many qualified candidates but only so many spots available.

if you're concerned about transparancy, which is a very good thing for cb, i recommend you start a petition to create the bylaws for createblog. that way, everyone will know exactly what and how every process works.

seriously? i see several reasons why that doesn't exacty make sense...

oh, and Julia, I got caught up in physics homework today at lunch and forgot to tell you congrats!!

[racoons > you]

^
*cough* conservative staffer

*runs away and hides*

[*jooleeah*]

Awww. Thanks, Nicki! :D <3

I think all of the mods chosen are very dedicated and hardworking. I see no problem at all. ( Not that I'm saying any of you guys do.)

[*tweeak*]

^
*cough* conservative staffer

*runs away and hides*

f**k off. When I see a good idea, I'll acknowledge it.

[racoons > you]

f**k off yourself.

you told me yesterday that you didnt care about what was being suggested in the feedback forum. how will you ever see a good idea with that attitude?

[micron]

can i just say, if a set of by-laws is written for CB, can we PLEASE have non-staff input?

actually, i was suggesting that the community make the bylaws.

[racoons > you]

oh, good!

then i agree.

although if we try and have mass input, say in one thread its going to be messy, lots of distracting arguments, repetiotion etc.

how about we assign a committee, say, 5 members, 5 staff, probably including at least one headstaff, who can deal with it on an invision board

[*tweeak*]

f**k off yourself.

you told me yesterday that you didnt care about what was being suggested in the feedback forum. how will you ever see a good idea with that attitude?

that's not what I said at all. don't twist my words.

[*mzkandi*]

^2 How exactly does that involve the community, again? Community input was what kept the cB rev alive.

[*tweeak*]

If you're going to choose members, isnt that in some ways like picking staff? You can't just assume the staff is biased because they don't agree with you. You're obnoxious when you argue.

Yeah, Kiera makes a point too. And she wasn't staff when that went on, either.

[racoons > you]

well, perhaps we assign 10 people to do the actual writing, but make teh invisionboard open for everyone to view, then they can pm ideas to posters for discussion, if they see something going disasterously wrong

as for who would write it, it shouldnt matter, as they wouldnt be directly representing their own views. i just thought we would ask for volunteers, and take the first 5 from each (excluding any obvious time wasters)

*shrugs* it was just an idea to keep things tdy, i dont really feel strongly about it one way or the other.

and nicki, i was barely tweeking your words. your words were 'i dont care'

[*incoherent*]

seriously? i see several reasons why that doesn't exacty make sense...

nicki, what do you mean?

james, if the by-laws are going to be written, ill step up and help.

[*tweeak*]

and nicki, i was barely tweeking your words. your words were 'i dont care'

yes, but on an entirely different matter. we cannot have another topic backstage for every topic presented in feedback. that's unreasonable.

nicki, what do you mean?

james, if the by-laws are going to be written, ill step up and help.

I don't understand how Michael didn't make it if that was the case.

[*incoherent*]

oh, i see now. i was wondering about that today when i was semi talking to him in p/ms

[racoons > you]

it was hardly an entirey different matter. and i didnt sy each issue deserved a seperate thread, just that it deserved at lest an appropriate amount of discussion.
if you would like, i could post our converssation here

[*tweeak*]

No, not everything does. There's a fine line between being open-minded and conosidering things that shouldn't be considered. It's not like we don't consider things. However, we cannot just change everything on the whim of someone who doesn't fully understand how it is to run this forum.

[*incoherent*]

here the revolution goes again.

james and nicki- why have you been fighting so much lately? you used to get along so well.

[racoons > you]

i said that everything deserves the appropriate amount of consideration. suggestions like 'lets give everyone with 50 posts modding powers' (or whatever) deserves zero consideration

however, there have been ideas in here which have not been given due attention. or, if they have, we havent been told, which is just not good sense

spencer - im not trying to have a revolution... this thread is jus tnconveniently named

[*incoherent*]

no, the whole revolution comment wasnt directed in your way, nor nicki's. it just seems that no one is getting along now that the new staff has been named.

[racoons > you]

oh.

well, please no one interpret this to mean that i am in ANY way dissatisfied with the choice of staff... i most certainly am not

[micron]

how about we assign a committee, say, 5 members, 5 staff, probably including at least one headstaff, who can deal with it on an invision board

sounds good to me. ill let you and sadolakced acid appoint the 5 members, since you two seem to be more inclined than most in cb politics. you may appoint yourselves. ill see who from the staff team wishes to participate and come up with the five staff.

we'll need a temporary subforum during the creation of the bylaws. one pinned topic with the most current working copy of the bylaws. and the forum open to everyone for input and discussion. the process will be completely transparant, anyone can bring up anything they want to see in the bylaws. the committee will have to come to a consensus in what to include and what to leave out. they will be the ones that will do the actual writing of the working copy of the bylaws.

the bylaws should include how it will be approved, terminated, ammendments (vote by community? staff? etc). lets make this thorough please.

ill check back tonight. im the meantime, google is our friend.

[micron]

oh yea, when you appoint people, try to get a diverse group, not just your allies. i will be looking to do the same.

[racoons > you]

^

yay!

do we want a subforum, or should we have an invison board, with one forum for suggestions from members, and then another where we actually hammer out details, and do the writing

i appoint myself, and specer, as he expressed interest.

reserving one spot for justin, assuming he wants it, would anyone other memeber care to voulnteer. and duly noted about balance. we need a couple of girls, preferabley someone with somewhat cponservative views towards createblog, as well as someone more centerist

[*mzkandi*]

I will volunteer from the mod side.

[*tweeak*]

As do I

[*incoherent*]

haha specer.

lol. james i just p/med you. just ignore it. its about signing up for it.

[Rachel]

we need a couple of girls, preferabley someone with somewhat cponservative views towards createblog, as well as someone more centerist

[*incoherent*]

^
does that mean you want to join?

[racoons > you]

rachel, that would be fantastic.

i'll consider your space to be taken, leave one for justin, and also, i;ve approached katt about the fifth place. i think she is competent in discussion, and she certainly doesnt share my views about a lot of subjects, so she works for the balance issue. provided katt and justin are interested, we have our delegates!

ok, next issue

should we use a subforum of CB for the discussions, or an entirely seperate invisionfree board?

*********
some arguments for either option:

Invisionfree Board

For:

- one forum can be given over for non-delegates to post ideas/suggestions/comments on the work the delgates are doing. It is important that, as representatives, we are aware of the way people feel about certain issues.

- another forum can be solely for the use of staff to actuall discuss proposals in more detail, and hammer out the actual writing of the by-laws, without people getting in the way. non-delegates will be able to view, but not to post in this forum.

- all delegates can be given moderator powers, meaning we are not dependent on the CB mods to keep threads in order.

Against

- it wont be immediately obvious where the discussions are taking place. someone with an excellent idea could miss out, because they do not know the url of the invisonfree board

- people would hav eto actually register on the board to post, which may be a deterrent

Sub-Forum

For

- It's familiar, and easily accesible to, all members

- it keeps the discussions within CB, meaning no one has to register seperately to comment

Against

- It will be difficult to seperate actual writing out of the bylaws and formal decisions from non-delegate posts. it coud become disorganized very quickly

- We would be dependent on CB mods to keep things in order/tidy, and to deal with any time wasters. this wil be inconvenient to member-delegates, as well as givng some delegates more authority than others, which for the purposes of an open discussion, is not fair.

**************

personally, i favour the invisionfree board. the organizational/equality benefits outweigh possible disadvantages, as far as i can see
if we make the board visible for guest to view, then people only have to register to actually post their say, and anyone who feels strongly enough about this is unlikely to be dettered by having to register.
in terms of people not knowing where to find us, a pinned thread in feedback with the link should let people know. afterall, the people who post mot in fedback ar elikely to be the most interested in this project

views. not just from delegates, but non-delegates as well

[*mzkandi*]

^If done by invisonboard (the better choice to me) we could make an announcement in Announcements for all to see with the link. If someone really wants to comtribute to cB, then signing up to voice their opinion wont be that much of a deterrent.

[racoons > you]

btw, if anyone objects to me refering to the selected committee members as delegates, please let me know

it just seemed more appropriate than calling us like, 'the elite' vs. 'regular members', as half of us will be regular members...

yeah.

[*incoherent*]

the invisionfree board is what im leaning towards, but remember, there are 5 mods that will be on the commitee. yes, it's in feedback, but someone suggested a head staff person as well. they will be able to do as we need. maybe frankie?

with that being said, i still say we use the invisionfree board because we can all be granted with access to do as we please and get rid of wasteful things. it also keeps cB uncluttered and its just amongst us to keep it organized rather than people not taking part.

delegates is fine. it's just a word.

is there anyway the 5 staff members joining the commitee can become assembled asap so we can get this rolling, thus getting it done faster?

[racoons > you]

^

to be fair though, if it were a sub forum under faeedback, it wouldnt necessarily have to follow the same 'only head staff can moderate rule'

but anyway, i think it is important that all delegates have equal power during the discussions

[*incoherent*]

^thats true, but then only staff can close it and not the regular members.

i just say we use invisionfree entitling everyone of equal power so if staff members arent on, it can be dealt with as necessary.

once again,
is there anyway the 5 staff members joining the commitee can become assembled asap so we can get this rolling, thus getting it done faster and ending the chaos?

i think (unless james objects) that kiera and nicki have already volunteered meaning well need 3 more. any takers?

[racoons > you]

^

well, to be fair, we need to hear from justin and katt.

and also, jusun has to approve them. i hav eno say over the staff delegates. calm down, this will take a litle while to get fully rolling

also, in terms of equality, i think that its important that we say from early on that we arent going into this as 'mods vs. members', if we take votes on issues, each person is free to vote as they see fit, based on the points put forth by delegate and non-delegates.

we are two teams palying soccer or anything, we represent the people

[*incoherent*]

i didnt know jusun had to pick them. eh, oh well. itll get done sooner or later.

[JlIaTMK]

Hrm.... opinions, opinions....

anyways, I would like to keep those up. Partly to let those needy to read it, read it, and partly because I didn't finish reading up all of them.

[Anyways, would anyone like some double chocolate chip cookies?]

[*kryogenix*]

Chill out people. It's an internet message board.


It's hard for moderators not to be conservative when it comes to the rules. Obviously, we have to, since we are charged with enforcing them. But that doesn't mean we're not open to ideas. There is no need for bickering here. There's a feedback forum. You guys post ideas, we look at them and decide which ones will improve CB. However, like it or not, this isn't a democracy. Admins usually call the shots, but ultimately, it's micron's decision for the bigger things. Like it or not, the admin's word is law. You guys should consider yourself lucky just to have a benevolent guy like micron as the owner.

So how about it guys, no more drama. Talk like grown ups, ok?

[*mipadi*]

I would be interested in joining a committee to discuss by-laws and other community-related guidelines, from a non-mod's perspective.

[Spirited Away]

May I join, too, if there's still a spot available? cB politics=yummy. Er..


LOL @ Kryo's sign.

edited... but yea.. mods are supposed to be conservative about cB guidelines and policies.

This post has been edited by Spirited Away: Oct 6 2005, 06:45 PM

[*disco infiltrator*]

Um, I want in..



That is a funny sign, but what's even funnier is that all this isn't even drama compared to what we've had before...people keep saying there's more drama now, but it's just little. Anyone remember Kathleen/Trish?..only older mods would, but wow. THAT was drama.

[BrokenDream]

i chose the new staff members based on the number of times they appeared on the old staff's new staff list.

Okay, wait a minute. Do you mean people that submitted an application LAST time? I don't think that should matter. I have worked very, very hard to get the requirements, and I was not submitting a application last time because I didn't have the requirements. It should matter on how friendly, helpful, and respectful they are to other members and the community. Sure, this was my first attempt to try to be on the staff, and I didn't make it.. not that I'm mad, or such. Just a question.

[*mzkandi*]

  It should matter on how friendly, helpful, and respectful they are to other members and the community. Sure, this was my first attempt to try to be on the staff, and I didn't make it.. not that I'm mad, or such. Just a question.

All of that played a factor who the mods chose in putting on the list. It was a very fair process, IMO.

But its also the reason for the by-laws being brought up, that they all the applicants can know what to expect during the hiring process.

[Paradox of Life]

well, to be fair, we need to hear from justin and katt.

I don't really think I have a place in here, but yes, I was surprised at who was chosen to be in the people staff. People debating about this really has no effect because it's pressuring the mods and stirring up more drama and obviously we have way too much of that already.

[sadolakced acid]

hmm. i go away to do physics and look what happens...

right.

so far we have, i think, in the creation committie:

michael
sammi
nicki
james
justin
fae
kryo
keira


so far 4 1/2 mods, 3 1/2 non (fae counts half.

any i missed?

[*jooleeah*]

Anyone remember Kathleen/Trish?..only older mods would, but wow. THAT was drama.

I remember that. You don't necessarily have to be an old mod to remember things like that. Just saying.

[*disco infiltrator*]

Well only old mods would have seen the thread they fought in...

[*incoherent*]

hmm.  i go away to do physics and look what happens...

right. 

so far we have, i think, in the creation committie:

michael
sammi
nicki
james
justin
fae
kryo
keira
so far 4 1/2 mods, 3 1/2 non (fae counts half.

any i missed?

james said i was part of the committee and jusun is choosing the 5 from staff.

[sadolakced acid]

alright, so


michael
sammi
nicki
james
justin
fae
kryo
keira
incoherent

let's get one more member.

oh we should get mindy!

[*disco infiltrator*]

Let's not.

Nothing against Mindy, but don't you think having people that are really active on CB would help more?

[*incoherent*]

^x2

lol, just so you know, the names spencer.

[Rachel]

(cough) Justin what happened to me!

[*incoherent*]

^
oh yeah, james had talked about her being on it.

[BOOGERSHAHA]

(cough) Justin what happened to me!

but don't you think having people that are really active on CB would help more?

i think you should return, but fully so (if that makes sense)!

[*incoherent*]

i think you should return, but fully so (if that makes sense)!

that doesnt make sense...what are you talking about?

[sadolakced acid]

ahh sure..


michael
sammi
nicki
james
justin
fae
kryo
keira
spencer
rachel


that's 10, 5 mods, 5 members.

anyone else want in?

[*incoherent*]

i think we should make it 11 so if it's just us voting theres no chance of it coming out even.

just a suggestion.

[*mzkandi*]

^2 I dont think James (kyro) volunteered himself, you should ask him first.

[*incoherent*]

^
he may have in a p/m

[BOOGERSHAHA]

that doesnt make sense...what are you talking about?

her sig says she's gone. but she still visits now and then. i'm saying she should return "full time" and be more active. especially after sammi's comment about wanting really active members on this deal. (and for the sake of returning, duh.)

[Rachel]

her sig says she's gone. but she still visits now and then. i'm saying she should return "full time" and be more active. especially after sammi's comment about wanting really active members on this deal. (and for the sake of returning, duh.)

well who says Sammi's word is law

[*disco infiltrator*]

It's not, it was just a suggestion since Jusun said "don't make them all your friends" and whatnot....

[Rachel]

I was joking my love =]

[sadolakced acid]

i just suggested mindy because of her interest in politics, but i don't think she'd do it anyways...


yea i just realized kryo didn't vollunteer...



michael
sammi
nicki
james
justin
fae
keira
spencer
rachel

9.

[KissMe2408]

Wow, i think this is a great idea...and I really like the picks. I just read through the entire thread and i'm happy you guys are so passionate about this. If you do need another member, i would be more then happy to join.

[sadolakced acid]

what's your name?

[*mzkandi*]

^ Her name is Katie

[sadolakced acid]

alright.

michael
sammi
nicki
james
justin
fae
keira
spencer
rachel
katie

10

5 mod 5 member

might we need more design staff?

[KissMe2408]

^Hey thanks, i feel really good about being part of this.
And about the design staff, it probably wouldn't hurt putting more in

[micron]

hey guys,
good to see that everyone's so passionate about this.

just so that everyone's on the same page, let me remind you (those who are part of the commitee) that this is going to be a lot of work and responsibilty. the best type of persons for drafting bylaws are people who are detail oriented, highly analytical, keen on hindsight and foresight, and dont mind getting their hands dirty.

if you are all of the above, then im sure youre going to enjoy this. otherwise, i would recommend that you widthdraw from the commitee now.

if executed properly, youll be making cb history. so act accordingly. =)

ill leave this open for another day for people to reconsider and if there are others who might be interested in joining the commitee. if youre a member and wish to be part of the commitee, dont mind that its already full. speak up, everyone will have their proper cosideration. likewise for staff members. and it doesnt matter if youre coming in with 10 posts, your post counts are insignificant here. just explain to us why you should be part of the comittee, and we'll give you proper consideration.

[micron]

hmmmm....

maybe i ought to make an announcement about this instead. so we get as many candidates as possible.

[KissMe2408]

hmmmm....

maybe i ought to make an announcement about this instead. so we get as many candidates as possible.

That would probably be a good idea, because the idea kinda developed halfway through the thread.

[lbjshaq2345]

i for one am glad to see that 's-money' lol finally made it and i think it'll turn out to be for the better cuz they all no what they're doin roxy aint no chump

[micron]

i for one am glad to see that 's-money' lol finally made it and i think it'll turn out to be for the better cuz they all no what they're doin roxy aint no chump

come again?

[*tweeak*]

I think he basically just said he supports Suzzette as staff. Grammar is not the specialty around here.

[micron]

oh,
and as for the subforum vs invisionfree, i wasnt convinced by the arguments for invisionfree. we're going to make two subforums, one for discussion open to the public, and one open only to the commitee members. commitee members will have moderator abilities in these two forums. and guest posting will be enabled for those who wish to contribute anonymously.