school uniforms Options

[inlonelinessidie]

I think uniforms would be a great thing.

[sadolakced acid]

uniforms do promote uniformity, and you know it.

you know why the military uses uniforms? it's to destroy the sense of self, and replace it with a sense of group. it so you will shut up and walk point and be killed without argueing.


i see uniforms in real life. i'm wearing one as i type this. but where i'm going, i'm providing the service. if i were the one recieving the service, i would not consent to wear a uniform.

schools are not there to serve the parents. a school can function about the same if the parents ignored it and just paid taxes. but if all the students didn't show up, there wouldn't be a point to school. because, the school is suppost to teach the kids. the kids are reciving the service. and they should not have to wear a uniform, being recivers of the service, in this case, teaching, not the givers. A school does not need uniformity in it's students.

[abstracted]

WunKraziePinoy makes several good points. Not everyone wears clothes for individuality's sake. In fact, most people end up just trying to wear whatever's up to date.

you know why the military uses uniforms? it's to destroy the sense of self, and replace it with a sense of group. it so you will shut up and walk point and be killed without argueing.

Destroy a sense of self??? No. Oh no. Uniforms do NOT destroy a sense of self at all, unless you let it do that. In things like the military and marching band (which I am in), the people wear the uniforms not only because it's required (not the main reason at all), but because the uniforms represent what they are a part of, and they're proud of that.
And...sense of group is a GOOD thing. Unity.

Not a lot of students would wear uniforms to represent their school, so I don't think you can compare the military with this.

Sure, schools provide the service. But, the only way your argument would work is if school was not required. It's a required service. You need to do it.
Actually, there's one example that contradicts what you say. When you go to church, you're receiving the service, right? But, you can't just wear anything...you need to wear nice clothes. Of course, it's not as strict as school. But, you won't earn much respect if you wear jeans and an old T-shirt to church.

A school does not need uniformity in it's students.

First off, uniforms may or not perform uniformity, like comradered said. So, that's different from the argument here.

Schools do need uniforms. You have the wrong view of it, I think. Uniforms (at least, in school) do not create an army of students in the same colors with no individuality, no sense of self, etc. You won't find a student in uniform empty of individual thought. They can still think and have their own opinions.
In school, it doesn't quite promote a sense of unity/group either, because since so many people wear it (and it's required), people don't feel like their suddenly one big huge group because of their clothing. So, whatever bad you saw in the sense of group won't be there. Everybody still feels like an individual. Sure, when you go to school competitions and such, there's a sense of group. But that's one of the few times, and it's good, then.

We've already said how uniforms are good and what problems they solve. I really can't see any negative effects of it.

well, what do i know. nothing, right?

just a silly boy who belives that uniforms are not good. and why does he belive this? because schools can function fine with or without uniforms, but uniforms have not been proven to help any.

I did not say that, either. Actually, you're the only person here who's supporting that side of the argument WITH an argument (there're those few who just say 'no, uniforms are horrible!' and then leave). It's just that there're some fine things in uniforms that you're missing, like the fact that it doesn't destroy individuality and such. And, I think that uniforms HAVE been proven to help. There's a reason that there's a stereotype that kids in uniforms are smart students who go to private schools.

[Spirited Away]

uniforms do promote uniformity, and you know it.

Uh, sure, uniform promotes uniformity if you WANT it to.

you know why the military uses uniforms?  it's to destroy the sense of self, and replace it with a sense of group. it so you will shut up and walk point and be killed without argueing. 

Hmm, I don't think going to the military would destroy my sense of self, but rather TEACHES me that there is a reward for team work. I mean, do you seriously think that all veterans/military guys do not have a sense of self?

I think uniforms in the military was really meant to: 1) to promote team work, 2) allow us to RECOGNIZE each other when fighting in a war, 3) have pride, in the sense of belonging to a group that's meant to fight and defend democracy.... ETC, of course there's more to it, but I'll leave it at that for you to think about.

"We're going to have uniformity in the uniforms," he said. "We believe uniforms in schools promote teamwork a sense of belonging and are good for school spirit."

SOURCE
So, in this case (the above quote), uniformity isn't a bad thing.

ACTUALLY, uniform ISN'T bad UNLESS you meant for it to be so.

i see uniforms in real life.  i'm wearing one as i type this.  but where i'm going,  i'm providing the service.  if i were the one recieving the service, i would not consent to wear a uniform. 

If you're not forced to wear a uniform, then of course you don't have to. But if you're force, for the good of everyone, then it's best that you do.

schools are not there to serve the parents.  a school can function about the same if the parents ignored it and just paid taxes.  but if all the students didn't show up, there wouldn't be a point to school.  because, the school is suppost to teach the kids.  the kids are reciving the service.  and they should not have to wear a uniform, being recivers of the service, in this case, teaching, not the givers.  A school does not need uniformity in it's students.

Oh sure...
Why do you think schools have "Parents and Teachers Night" or "Parents Conference" and "take home" report cards even? For the heck of "getting to know" your parents? I don't think so.

They want your parents to know what kind of progress you're making.

It doesn't matter if some kids show up to school or not, in the end, the parents will make the kids go back. Plain and simple.

Schools don't need uniforms, but would be a positive improvement.

[HiddenFaerie]

I can imagine myself in a uniform coming into school with bright blue hair. I don't like the idea of uniforms. But they would eliminate that need to be all 'trendy' and whatnot. It wouldn't stop cliques and those little groups.

But it turns out by the time I reach sophomore at highschool. My whole school district will be uniform.

[tsohg]

Everyone should have to wear Ancient Roman Tunics and Togas to school.

ROFL!!! toga! toga! TOGA!!

[SiYuTiAyEe]

i would rather wear uniform in school... in that way... everybody's equal... nobody will judge anybody... and besides... being a girl is hard... we have to really think about what to wear in school... instead of thinking bout our homeworks... we think or lemmeee say.. i think about what to wear the day after.... and i just hate it when i spend like an hour staring at my closet to look for something to wear...

i used to go to a catholic school... we wear uniforms but there's like a day for not wearing uniforms... so i think.. that'll do for me...

[sadolakced acid]

deny it, yet you cannot prove it wrong.

uniforms do promote uniformity. you keep saying stuff like, only if you let it. look at a group of people in uniform and tell me there isn't uniformity there.

only if you want it too. that's BS
take 100 of the most different people, put them in uniforms. now tell me there isn't uniformity.



and the students are the recivers of the service. they are the ones being taught. if you would argue that point, please consider that the students are the ones learning, which is reciving the service being provided.

parents, are indirectly the receivers, through thier kids. but the primary recipient is the student.


and i have read military stratagy. the most important thing is that your soilders all follow your orders without question, and they work as a group.

how is this achived? basic training, now a days. uniforms help with the group, but the psycology of basic also destroys selfpreservation and makes a sence of group.

oh, sure. the parents do NOT recive the service, because they are not the ones going to school.

Schools don't need uniforms, but would be a positive improvement.

schools don't need uniforms. a positive improvment, probably. but one achived in the wrong way.

[sadolakced acid]

you are a unique individual, just like everyone else.

[Spirited Away]

deny it, yet you cannot prove it wrong.

uniforms do promote uniformity. you keep saying stuff like, only if you let it. look at a group of people in uniform and tell me there isn't uniformity there.

only if you want it too. that's BS
take 100 of the most different people, put them in uniforms. now tell me there isn't uniformity.

Oh my goodness, child, get over it. Someone outspoke you, no big deal.

I'm not denying anything. If you've cared to read me correctly instead of whining about how I'm so wrong, then you've would have noticed that I said uniforms do promote uniformity. The only exception to what I've agreed to is that uniforms promote uniformity if people intended them to be so. I've given you facts, but all you can do is get stuck on something so trivial.

How is it BS? Do you suppose uniformity is a bad thing?

Why do teams play in uniform? Oh, because they have to lose their sense of self and must be brainless followers of what the coaches tell them.

HELLO? No matter what the coach tells them to do, the players still have minds of their own, after all, they're playing the game and it's up to them and their skills to win. Oh wow, if they follow what the coach tells them, they'll win/lose for sure.

Coaches and the team work together for sucess, just like schools and their students must work together as well.

and the students are the recivers of the service.  they are the ones being taught.  if you would argue that point, please consider that the students are the ones learning, which is reciving the service being provided. 

parents, are indirectly the receivers, through thier kids.  but the primary recipient is the student. 

Students DO receive the service ONLY because the parents PAID for it. What part of buyer and seller do you not understand? Who's the buyer and who's the seller?

School sells their service and parents buy it for their children. GET IT? BUY IT FOR THE CHILDREN.

Just like, parents buy games for their children, without the money, children can't get games...

Woah, I hope I made that CLEAR enough.

and i have read military stratagy.  the most important thing is that your soilders all follow your orders without question, and they work as a group.

how is this achived?  basic training, now a days.  uniforms help with the group, but the psycology of basic also destroys selfpreservation and makes a sence of group. 

So, uniforms are only meant to be used get people to forget the word "me". Uh... okay, suppose this:


Put two teams of 10 people, with no uniform into a shooting zone, with two other teams who are already in combat. Now give them guns.

Okay, now suppose the team split up to shoot at each other.

I'll tell you now that, unless these poor souls are BEST FRIENDS they won't even recognize each other, or WHO THE HECK THEY'RE shooting.

SO, do you see the importance of uniforms in the military now, aside from ridding the sense of self? I hope so.

oh, sure. the parents do NOT recive the service, because they are not the ones going to school.

Now another senerio for you to better understand the situation.

Suppose you buy a gift for a friend who's moving away. You buy a toy.

Now then, you don't get to play with the toy, but you still bought it.

The same goes with parents and school. Parents buy the service for their children, but they don't need the service because they've already received it a while ago.

Once again, what part of buyer and seller, perhaps receiver of the service, do you not understand?

schools don't need uniforms.  a positive improvment, probably.  but one achived in the wrong way.

How is it wrong?


And... that question brings us in a full circle, back to the begining..... Great.

[Sumiaki]

I can imagine myself in a uniform coming into school with bright blue hair. I don't like the idea of uniforms. But they would eliminate that need to be all 'trendy' and whatnot. It wouldn't stop cliques and those little groups.

But it turns out by the time I reach sophomore at highschool. My whole school district will be uniform.

You can still be trendy outside of school cant you? Like at parties or whenever you go out.

you are a unique individual, just like everyone else.

How does that relate to uniforms? Are you talkin about expressing yourself through your clothes. Not many kids do that. "I don't like the idea of uniforms. But they would eliminate that need to be all 'trendy' and whatnot." They buy whatever's in fashion. What makes things in fashion or trendy is the fact that everyone buys it and therefore becomes popular. Why would you want something that everyone else has? Is that really individuality? Wouldn't you rather wear something more original to express yourself?

So, uniforms are only meant to be used get people to forget the word "me". Uh... okay, suppose this:


Put two teams of 10 people, with no uniform into a shooting zone, with two other teams who are already in combat. Now give them guns.

Okay, now suppose the team split up to shoot at each other.

I'll tell you now that, unless these poor souls are BEST FRIENDS they won't even recognize each other, or WHO THE HECK THEY'RE shooting.

SO, do you see the importance of uniforms in the military now, aside from ridding the sense of self? I hope so.

Agreed. The same can be said for school uniforms. The uniforms can also be used as ID's to identify unwanted guests in the school compound.

[sadolakced acid]

Oh my goodness, child, get over it.  Someone outspoke you, no big deal.

you're not that much older than me, and you're sounding like my grandma.

outspoke me? haha. mayhaps. yet you still do not prove me wrong.




resorting to dodging the question with a personal attack? (albeit a small one)
somehow i don't think you can prove me wrong on that one. you have repeatedly not done so.

Uh, sure, uniform promotes uniformity if you WANT it to.

did i read you wrong? it's there, if you wish to see. you said it.

Coaches and the team work together for sucess, just like schools and their students must work together as well.

who said the students were a team? since when was going to a school making you part of the team?

let me go over this with you again, since you seem to not understand it.

schools are buildings where people are taught.
teachers teach them
the ones who learn are called students.
it is the teachers job to teach the students
it its the parents job to pay taxes for the public school weather or not they have kids in it.
it is the students that are reciving the learning.


now let's get this straight. i buy a haircut for you. the person shaves your head. am i going to complain? and are you going to just sit there and do nothing? of course you are, because I recived the service, right?
i paid for it, right? that means i recive the service. right?

[sadolakced acid]

How does that relate to uniforms? Are you talkin about expressing yourself through your clothes. Not many kids do that. "I don't like the idea of uniforms. But they would eliminate that need to be all 'trendy' and whatnot." They buy whatever's in fashion. What makes things in fashion or trendy is the fact that everyone buys it and therefore becomes popular. Why would you want something that everyone else has? Is that really individuality? Wouldn't you rather wear something more original to express yourself?

i'll take it you haven't read all the posts. then again, who would want to.


now does it relate. hmm, let's see. people are arguing about how uniforms don't take away your individuality.

it is the clothes that make them man.  naked people have little influence on society. 

mark twain. argue it if you wish.

[Spirited Away]

mark twain.  argue it if you wish.

it is the clothes that make them man.  naked people have little influence on society.

I don't see what Mark Twain says got to do with anything?

Are you talking about adults or kids?

Now, I never said that full grown adults should be required to wear uniforms to go the market or something.. HAHAH. So, I really don't know what you're talking about.

[sadolakced acid]

yet again you do not prove me wrong. is it my imagination, or are you avoiding it?

prove that uniforms do not promote uniformity.

[Spirited Away]

yet again you do not prove me wrong. is it my imagination, or are you avoiding it?

prove that uniforms do not promote uniformity.

Yet again, you're proving to me that you don't know how to read.

If you've cared to read me correctly instead of whining about how I'm so wrong, then you would have noticed that I said uniforms do promote uniformity. The only exception to what I've agreed to is that uniforms promote uniformity if people intended them to be so.

*scratches head*, what I am supposed to be proving wrong?

[sadolakced acid]

Uh, sure, uniform promotes uniformity if you WANT it to.

am i reading your correctly?

[Spirited Away]

am i reading your correctly?

You got one line right, now read the rest of what I said and put them into coherent thoughts.

[sadolakced acid]

haha. the way i see it, we agree on these points.

1. a school can function with or without uniforms
2. a uniform does have many benifits
3. no uniforms has one benifit only, wearing your own clothes.

what is disputed is whether or not students should wear uniforms.

i think, that uniforms are good for most of the students. it makes for a better learning environment with less distractions.

however (you haven't won yet) i think that uniforms are not good for some students, on these points.

1. psycologically, some students abhor uniforms. (yes, that would be me)
2. uniforms can't be comfortable for everyone. they'd be made by one company and in my expirence in wearing clothes, sometimes some companies make clothes that just don't fell confortable.
3. some students don't really have a life outside of school. thier sole purpose is to get good grades. the only social activity they have is in school. they do need the expirence of being judged by what they wear.

and, a few more points about uniforms in general

1. if you want a uniform, cannot you go to a private school?
2. uniforms make school rather boring. (yea, it's not good. but i wanted two points)

and the mark twain quote was an attempt to lighten up the debate.

[EmeraldKnight]

I didnt read much at all.. but I'll just go and refute your arguments SA:

1. psycologically, some students abhor uniforms. (yes, that would be me)
2. uniforms can't be comfortable for everyone. they'd be made by one company and in my expirence in wearing clothes, sometimes some companies make clothes that just don't fell confortable.
3. some students don't really have a life outside of school. thier sole purpose is to get good grades. the only social activity they have is in school. they do need the expirence of being judged by what they wear.

and, a few more points about uniforms in general

1. if you want a uniform, cannot you go to a private school?
2. uniforms make school rather boring. (yea, it's not good. but i wanted two points)

and the mark twain quote was an attempt to lighten up the debate.

1. Psychologically, some students like uniforms
2. The company likely specializes in making uniforms and has been doing it for a while, so I would have to say that they'd have sufficient experience in createing comfortable ones
3. .... *cough* no comment

1. Private schools costs money (often $thousands a year), public do not
2. Pfft.. at least come up witha good second post

[1baybee]

i'm getting uniforms next year in highschool I'm okay with them..but it depends on the colour. We're getting green and black? I hate green

[Spirited Away]

No. That's just another way to strip people of their freedom.

Maybe you should read the other posts to see what we've said about kids loosing "freedom" and independence because of uniforms...

[lemonlina]

I would like school uniforms because a lot of kids pick on other kids because of their clothes and such. And clothing style wouldn't be such a big distraction in school. Plus, kids can be individual outside of school, right?

[sadolakced acid]

uniforms are not great equalizers.

there are plenty of other ways to make fun of kids.

[*tyedyefroggy*]

I think that they should, but on the otherhand they shouldnt. Heres my reasoning:

People should be allowed to wear clothes that expresses themselves and they should wear clothes that they can afford and stuff.

But on the otherhand. People should not wear clothes that have drugs or achohol advertisements on it, even though they do drugs or what not. They should not wear clothes that barely cover them and I think that they should not wear clothes that they spend TONS of money on for nothing. Thats not being themselves.

If schools have uniforms, thats letting the students express themselves through their personality instead of what they have. No one can be a major sterotype about someone if they have the same clothes on, thats just not fair.

Thats my 2 cents and what not. Take it for what its worth.

LaterZ

-Courtney