school uniforms Options

[sadolakced acid]

change of culture. which would be impossible.

these are problems that should not be solved. they prepare us for real life.

[Spirited Away]

change of culture. which would be impossible.

On the contrary, it is possible to change cultures. The Eastern cultures are influenced by the Westerns for more than a century and vice versa.

Uniforms isn't a call to change culture, it's a call to change lifestyle.

these are problems that should not be solved.  they prepare us for real life.

...

Clothes... prepare you for real life? Are you sure?

My friend, who's my age, is thought to be an adult in a lot of places. Of course, she doesn't mind. It's an advantage.

I don't mind either because you're right, I do have an advantage. A person is more likely to listen to someone mature, more so than someone whiney and immature.

[*Fallen_Fairy*]

I wear a uniform in school. I think it is easier. You don't have to worry about what to wear each morning. You can't be made fun of by what your wearing becuase your classmates are wearing the exact same thing. They just make life easier.

[sadolakced acid]

not the clothes. the problems that come witht the clothes

making your own choices about your clothes
haveing people ridicule you
social groups

these are all problems that will not be eradicated from the adult world. it can only be eradicated from school, but there is a life after school that we should be prepared for.

[Spirited Away]

not the clothes. the problems that come witht the clothes

making your own choices about your clothes
haveing people ridicule you
social groups

As far as I know, private schoolers don't have a problem in making their own choices. They still have a life outside of school, parties/outings/shopping, and they certainly know how to dress for it.

Uniforms won't change your character and social skills. How will that affect social groups and what people say? If they make fun of me for what I'm wearing, I can make fun of them too because we'd be wearing the same thing.

these are all problems that will not be eradicated from the adult world.  it can only be eradicated from school, but there is a life after school that we should be prepared for.

Are you saying that private school students are unprepared of the adult world?

[sadolakced acid]

less prepared than thier private schooled friends

[jarnifer]

less prepared than thier private schooled friends

who's less prepared?

people with uniforms or w/o uniforms?

[ComradeRed]

w/o uniforms, because face it in real life you will have to live through lots of times of conformity and uniformity. Like Corporate ants.

[sadolakced acid]

so you're saying that people who have not expirienced discrimination from the way they dress, and from clics and stuff, that these people are less experienced than people who have not go through that much?


to prove my point, i as uninspiredfae, whom i assume did not have a uniform, from her posts.

uninspiredfae, you didn't have a uniform. you said that it would have been much easier if you had had a uniform.

did not having a uniform teach you anything? like, how people act,exc?

[Spirited Away]

so you're saying that people who have not expirienced discrimination from the way they dress, and from clics and stuff, that these people are less experienced than people who have not go through that much?

No, I've said this many times:

I'm saying that people experience ONE less way of discrimination/judgement from their peers when they wear uniforms.

I don't know where you get that they get less experience.

to prove my point, i as uninspiredfae, whom i assume did not have a uniform, from her posts. 
uninspiredfae, you didn't have a uniform.  you said that it would have been much easier if you had had a uniform. 

I did say a couple pages back that I had worn uniforms when I was in elementary school and EmeraldKnight had pointed that most people who had worn or are wearing uniforms do not have a problem with it. I liked it.

did not having a uniform teach you anything?  like, how people act,exc?

I didn't wear uniforms when I was in junior high and high school and I told you a story of why I had wanted to have uniforms badly at that point in time.

Maybe you should read some of our posts again.

Not having uniforms taught me nothing. I had a horrible fashion sense all the way until I graduated from High School, and I was self-conscious about it. But when I was wearing uniforms, I remembered not caring about anything but friends and school work.

[islandkiss]

nope. by wearing our own clothes we get to be unique and individiual

[EmeraldKnight]

nope. by wearing our own clothes we get to be unique and individiual

Can't you express uniqueness and individuality by means other than clothing?

[sadolakced acid]

yes, i know you wanted uniforms. but did not having them teach you anything?

and do not people outside of school still use discrimination and other stuff?

my point is, that without uniforms, children have to pick there own clothes and they learn to deal with society.

society cares how you look. they will discriminate if you don't look good. why not start preparing kids in school.

[jarnifer]

haha...this may sound mean but...

wearing ur own clothes means individuality and uniqueness...

for what?

It doesn't help our school work and relationships with people in the positive sense...well, unless you were planning on being a slut or jock or whatever...then yeah...clothes DO matter then...

no offence to anyone...

dress codes SOUND workable but then...how can you define indecent and decent...it's a very fine line...
so that is why just enforcing uniforms are much more simpler and less of a hassle

[tootsie_kiddo]

hhmm... well our my skwl is private but middle skool and high skool dont hav uniformz. we juz hav a lil strict dress code. lyk no midriffs and no flipflopz and no tanktopz, only shirtz with sleeves and one piercing in each ear and no facial piercingz and stuff lyk dat. BUT our elementary and kindergarten has to wear uniformz but only for the winter... i think itz pretty fair? ...no?

[Spirited Away]

yes, i know you wanted uniforms. but did not having them teach you anything?

Dude, I said "Not having them taught me nothing". Infact, there were times when my friends made fun of what I wear. I was ghetto when it comes to dressing up for school. I didn't have the A/X and Abercrombie clothes because I couldn't afford them. But kids who wear them, even if they don't even match, will still get away with it for the day. But not me... HAHAHA, those were fun times.

Anyway, what do you learn by wearing your own clothes? That you could mix and match colors and be cool? I don't know. You tell me since you obviously like to do your own thing. I'm not sure if too many parents can appreciate what their kids wear nowdays.

and do not people outside of school still use discrimination and other stuff?

Huh? If you mean that people outside of school will judge you.. then sure. LIfe's like that, let them say what they will. But tell me, how often do you think someone who must wear uniforms to school, wear their uniforms to a party? Sounds kind of lame, I know, but if they do that, then they're just asking to be teased.

my point is, that without uniforms, children have to pick there own clothes and they learn to deal with society.

My point is, with uniforms, children can STILL LEARN to face society.

society cares how you look.  they will discriminate if you don't look good.  why not start preparing kids in school.

So you're telling me that people will laugh at a little kid who's wearing a uniform, and not the kid who's wearing a barney suit to school?

[EmeraldKnight]

Wow.. so defensive of this..

I love how you not onli stick to your arguments, but also argue them with reason instead of blatant opinion

[sadolakced acid]

uniforms promote uniformity, and uses that to solve certain problems in school

but these problems are still in society, no?

should not school be more like real life, to teach kids how to live in real life?

no one will laugh at the kid with the uniform. but they will at the kid in the barney suit, no? but the barney suit has taught the kid that people care about appearances. so when he goes to a job interview when he graduates, wearing a t-shirt and jeans when everyone else is wearing a suit, he will know how to deal with it, having experienced something similar. The kid who's had a uniform will probably have no idea what to do.

i'll tell you what i've learned without uniforms.

i have learn that my choice of clothes and style isn't mainstream, and i like it.
i've learn to ignore insults.
i've learned that appearances aren't everything, but they do reflect certain aspects of a person.
i have learned that how dress will cause people to treat you differently.
i have learned to make my own choices and take any consequences that come from them.

[Spirited Away]

uniforms promote uniformity, and uses that to solve certain problems in school 

First off, I would like everyone to know that I hate repitions in arguements because:

1) I've already answered the question more than once, and I don't like to repeat myself too much. I don't think of myself as a boring person, therefore, I don't want to bore myself to death with repeated answers.

2) It's pointless to use the same arguement twice if it has already been "pwned".

3) It proves to me that the person I'm arguing with do not take things I say into consideration. And this tells me that the person is not worth arguing with, seeing how they do not understand the most basic rule/skill of a good debate: Listening.

Anyway, on to the debate because I have nothing better at the moment.

but these problems are still in society, no?
should not school be more like real life, to teach kids how to live in real life?

Let me bold and change the font of my answer a little, so it'll stick out a bit more this time.

DUH

Now then, I would like to make the distinction between schools and society, because they are indeed different.

What do kids in elementary schools do? They show off their Fall/Winter/Spring/Summer fashion to their friends? Or do they learn how to read, do arithmetic, go to recess and share lunch with their friends?

What do kids do in Junior High? Girls show interest in boys, make up, and get into quarrels with friends, things that one would consider "society"/"human interaction problems. What are they there to do? They go to school to learn, and yet, they still face "real" problems.

What do kids do in High School? They date, go to wild parties, rallies, footbal practice... Still having to do with REAL problems, but what do their purpose in school? I hope I've made the answer quite obvious: to learn.

Do you agree that despite what they wear, they will STILL learn something, whether it be school education or society's problems, they learn it IN SCHOOL.

SO, I don't understand what you mean about kids not preparing to face society if they wear uniforms.

That's totally unsound, and invalid.

And for the love of Rock N Roll, UNIFORMS PROMOTE AN EDUCATIONAL ENVIRONMENT as well.

no one will laugh at the kid with the uniform. but they will at the kid in the barney suit, no? but the barney suit has taught the kid that people care about appearances. so when he goes to a job interview when he graduates, wearing a t-shirt and jeans when everyone else is wearing a suit, he will know how to deal with it, having experienced something similar. The kid who's had a uniform will probably have no idea what to do.

Ha! The kid with uniform learned that before the kid in the barney suit has! You must look at the BIGGER PICTURE.

The child with the uniform only needs to see how others are kempt and clean to learn that he/she would need to be the same.

While the child in barney suit must face humiliation before knowing how to dress.

i'll tell you what i've learned without uniforms.

i have learn that my choice of clothes and style isn't mainstream, and i like it.
i've learn to ignore insults.
i've learned that appearances aren't everything, but they do reflect certain aspects of a person.
i have learned that how dress will cause people to treat you differently.
i have learned to make my own choices and take any consequences that come from them.

Wow, I learned all that just because I was a kid growing up. Are you saying that children in uniforms do not know how to deal with insults and are so ignorant that they don't know reality from fantasy?

I think you need to sit down with a group of students who wears uniform, and talk to see how they may be more mature than you are. It's not fair that you would think they would be any less prepared for the adult world than their non-uniform peers.

[PiRaTeGrL775]

ignore this.

[abstracted]

should not school be more like real life, to teach kids how to live in real life?

Of course. Like uninspiredfae said, DUH. Only, I think you've got the wrong idea about it.
Wearing whatever you want in school is NOT real life. Sure, you don't have a specific set of clothing that you have to wear everyday. But, wherever you go, there is a dress code you have to follow. Nice, well-kept, clean clothes at work, for example.
So, you might say, that dress codes could solve all that. But...

dress codes SOUND workable but then...how can you define indecent and decent...it's a very fine line...

Exactly. And, not everyone follows it, or can follow it easily. There's a rule at my school that girls cannot where shorts or skirts that fall short of their fingertips when they have their arms at their sides. Obviously, this means that girls with long arms can't wear shorts. Hardly anyone can where shorts. When one tall girl heard of this rule, she was most upset, because it was REALLY hot that week.
Instead of having problems like sending students to the office where offensive shirts, or buying a new wardrobe because the school rules won't let you wear much of what you had, etc., why not just have school uniforms?

And for the love of Rock N Roll, UNIFORMS PROMOTE AN EDUCATIONAL ENVIRONMENT as well.

YES.

And, sadolakced acid....sorry, but your last entry really had me gaping.
Everything that you said non-uniformed students learn....what makes you think that uniformed students don't learn that??
Uniforms does not mean that you're completely ignorant of a non-uniform life. You do go to places other than school.

i have learned to make my own choices and take any consequences that come from them.

Oh yes. Choosing your clothes gives you a real eye-opener about choices.
What about every other choice you make? Choosing clothes should be the last thing that teaches you THAT.

i have learned that how dress will cause people to treat you differently.

I dunno, but that's something you can read in any book, or hear about anywhere. 'Never judge a book by it's cover', etc. etc. It's on TV. That's a hard fact to miss. Again, wearing uniforms in school won't make you oblivious to that.

i've learn to ignore insults.

Again...you don't need the freedom of choosing what you wear in school to teach you that.

i've learned that appearances aren't everything, but they do reflect certain aspects of a person.

That could almost support UNIFORMS. 1) Appearances aren't everything. A perfect reason to wear uniforms in order to prevent problems. 2) They reflect certain aspects of a person. You're right. A person who wears uniforms would be seen as a smart, clean, responsible student from a private school. That's not a bad stereotype. Other parts of your appearance (other than your clothes) can still be changed by you--they can reflect aspects of a person just as much as clothes can.

i have learn that my choice of clothes and style isn't mainstream, and i like it.

What you've just said is that wearing whatever you want in school leads to cliques, groups, labels, etc. You wouldn't ever have to learn that fact because with uniforms, it won't matter.
And, in real life...mainstream doesn't matter at all. It can only get to you in school.

Er, I hope I didn't just repeat anything...I tried to continue the debate, anyway.

There's not point in posting your view on this topic without reading what's already been said. Unless you're not expecting any real reaction to your comment, don't just say things like 'by wearing our own clothes we get to be unique and individiual', because we've already been there and discussed that.

[sadolakced acid]

well, what do i know. nothing, right?

just a silly boy who belives that uniforms are not good. and why does he belive this? because schools can function fine with or without uniforms, but uniforms have not been proven to help any.

school shouldn't just be about academics. school should also teach social skills.

uniforms promote an environment were the individual is suppressed, making it easier for a teacher to control a class, and for rules regarding dress to be enforced.

i don't care how much you say uniforms don't limit your creativity or individuality, i will repeat this argument, because you have not been able to refute it.

uniforms promote uniformity.

now decide, if uniformity something in real life? is it a good thing to promote? do countries have uniforms that thier citizens have to wear? and again, is uniformity a good thing to promote in school?

[ComradeRed]

Uniforms may or may not promote uniformity, depending on how they are used. My school has uniforms, and is considered a free speech zone compared to local public schools without uniforms.

[Spirited Away]

well, what do i know.  nothing, right? 

That's not what I'm saying, nor what I'm implying. It's just that you need to consider both sides. I mean, sure, wearing your own clothes is almost like wearing your own skin, but people must sacrifice luxury many times in life.

So, really, wearing uniforms prepare you to face real life, because you can't always get what you want.

just a silly boy who belives that uniforms are not good.  and why does he belive this?  because schools can function fine with or without uniforms, but uniforms have not been proven to help any. 

It's not proven, but it's obvious to the eye of the beholder. Schools seem more disciplined, more organized, and "educational" when a person sees uniforms.

school shouldn't just be about academics.  school should also teach social skills. 

You learn that in school, with or without uniform.

uniforms promote an environment were the individual is suppressed, making it easier for a teacher to control a class, and for rules regarding dress to be enforced. 

But like I said, it teaches a student about real life: you can't always have what you want, the way you want it. That's reality.

Teachers are meant to control a class; they're there to teach not to tell kids to be quiet or send someone out when he/she disrupt the class. It should be easier for them to teach, after all, that's what they're paid to do.

i don't care how much you say uniforms don't limit your creativity or individuality, i will repeat this argument, because you have not been able to refute it. 
uniforms promote uniformity.

I don't need to refute it, ComradeRed did a splendid job on putting all my sentiments into one simple sentence: "Uniforms may or may not promote uniformity, depending on how they are used".

now decide, if uniformity something in real life?  is it a good thing to promote?  do countries have uniforms that thier citizens have to wear?  and again, is uniformity a good thing to promote in school?

Uniformity IS something in real life. Have you not noticed it yet? It's everywhere.

People promote uniformity all on their own, but it's up to them to make it a bad thing or not.

Yes, uniform is a good thing to promote in school.

[Sumiaki]

Schools say they are preparing us for the workplace environment. Well in MOST workplaces you need to follow their dress code which are similar to uniforms. Why not have uniforms? They do not limit anyone's individuality. Do you really go to a store and say wow this shirt really represents me for me. Ususally people shop for clothes that are in fashion. Do you want to show everyone that you're up to date? Plus "fashion" is popular and everyone else wears it. If everyone else wears it, is that really individuality. Plus uniforms are also used the same way school I.D.'s are used.

Uniformity IS something in real life. Have you not noticed it yet? It's everywhere.

^ Agreed. Supermarkets have uniforms and nametags. Restaurants have uniforms. Business men wear ties and suits. Janitors have uniforms. Lifeguards have uniforms. Why not schools?