Pledge of Allegiance, bye bye "Under God" Options

[PinoyOtaku]

It is NOT promising allegiance to God, but rather, to a country that was founded by those who harbored a wish to have freedom (and for the majority of them, it was freedom of religion).

Nevermind, she got what I was about to explain..

[stryker76]

After much thought i feel that the pledge needs or should be an optional thing for students.....much like it is after school...you dont have to say it....but i mean think about it...it almost sounds like government brain wash we have to say the pledge every day at the beginning of school or we get yelled at...ill be 19 in 6 days and i have had to say the pledge every day of my life that spent in school i think it is quite advice that im not goin to do nething against my country and that i do have respect for those that defend my country....my not sayin the pledge in the morning does not show how much i care for my country it just shows that i am easily controlled by my government......

[azndragn]

i think it should stay why are they taking it out? i dont get it...this nation was founded under God....why change it now? if ppl dont like it...dont say it....simple as that

[m@dcow]

SEPARATION BETWEEN CHURCH AND STATE!!!!!
that's all

[shortie09]

i saw a story of how a man ((athiest)) didn't want his daughter to recite the 'under God' part of the Pledge of Allegiance because of his religion, while the girl's mother didn't mind. this man went to the supreme court to argue his case...


and to ask for the removal of the 'under God' phrase from the Pledge.


our nation was made with its countrymen with strong belief in God, but a lot changed since then; it's confusing, and since all of this free religion and etc., there's been much controversy. i've no right to say if we should have it or not. quite a load for president bush since his presidency, don't you think?

[bibliomania]

I think that it sholudn't say "under God" because every time I say the pledge, I feel like I'm brainwashed... I don't even believe in God... I mean... including those words, "Under God" makes the pledge even more meaningless for me.

[DesperateXMeasur...]

I say that it should stay.
No one ever said that they had to say the pledge.

[Yemmerz]

it should stay. it took me long enough to remember it that way.

but really....if you dont wanna say it dont say it. because the fact is that this country was founded by christians. and we cant change that. changing the under God part would be disrespectful to our founding fourfathers.

[tWinKliEmE]

erm, i think they should keep the under god part because .. these kids have freedom to not say the pledge... no ones makin them .. so they dont even have to say the pledge... and like i think it fits there..

[BeyondElite]

I think it should not! Man has no power to be a god. Therefore they should respect it, for many american people believe in God.

[divinity_star]

Why is it such a big deal now? Did you have problems reciting it in elementary school? Did you run home crying because it offended you? Why is it so different now because you can think about things?...I really don't get why it should be taken off...people have nothing better to do than to create problems in the world...

[LatinaLady]

i beliveit should be taken out. i belive in god but manyothers dont and i always think of the poepl who dont and that is why i dont say the pledge no more. i did wheni was yuong cuz i didnt understand it

[DisneyPrincessKa...]

This country was based on Christianity. Like it or not. Look on the dollar bill, it says "In God we trust" and if you go to DC there are a lot of religious references on the buildings. So, are we going to remodel DC and change our currency? Doubtful. Why should we change the Pledge?

Honestly, this won't affect me directly though. I go to Catholic school and we say the pledge like we've always said it. When I have a Civil Air Patrol meeting we keep the part that says "One nation under God."

Another note about this- have you ever noticed how people usually say it "One nation (pause) under God." Did you know that's wrong? A lot of people put the pause there but it isn't supposed to go there. I learned that at camp.

[sadolakced acid]

i skiped under god for a while, cus it implied one god. i got tired of that and stoped saying it altogether. they still make me stand up and face the flag.

[JlIaTMK]

wasnt it taken off because someone that was atheist complained that they didnt want their daughter to say the word god in the pledge?

i agree with that.... its freedom of speech

neway, it also mentions 'one nation under god' so i dont think that is true

wouldnt, if u think about it this way, all nations be under god

[Spirited Away]

^ No, "under God" stays because the atheist father "didn't have legal authority" to speak for his daughter, and she's the one who has to say it, not him.

[inn0centmarianne]

I say that it should stay.
No one ever said that they had to say the pledge.

I know, its been here longer than all those people who don't want to recite it, so sit your butt down, and dont speak it,just sit there and look dumb. actually I had a friend in elementary who was jahovahs witness and he just stood up, and didnt say anything because it was against his religion, but okay. I dont care, I been saying it since I was four, I dont have a problem with it. freedom of speech, for those who want to say it, let them, you dont have to.

[xoirene]

i think it should stay because america was founded under religion, it's main purpose was for religious freedom, so even if some people don't believe in a god, america was still started because the idea that there is a god, whether or not there really is.

[Lena]

yes it should...this nation was found under God..n shuld continue to state that in our pledge...we dont force anyone to say anything in there or any of it at all...they can choose not to say if they wish...but those of us who believe we r a seperate nation b/c of Him have a rite to state so in there...and also it never states a specific "god"...it culd either be God...or if u want to interpret it differantly..no1 is throwing u in jail for it...only antheist n sume agnostics have a prob. with it

"antheists" okaaay...I'll admit that I definately make type-o's cause I'm usually writing these up pretty quickly...but could you give a little more respect to the "antheists" out there and spell it right? let's jsut hope that was a type-o.

personally I don't really care...under god...under pudding...under bloomberg...under bush...under clinton...under chocolate...whatever you want. i think of the pledge as poetry...and we need poetic lisence!

well...actually i was hoping to quote a post that mentioned that you swear on the bible in court. it's not there...oh well. it's late...i'm tired...I don't quite remember what exactly you say (cause I don't like killing things I do not recall perfectly) but you don't have to swear to the bible. You can say something else. Personally I wouldn't make a big deal of it on the stand...cause it doesn't really make a difference...cause it's just tradition that doesn't really hurt anybody.

[shortie09]

^ No, "under God" stays because the atheist father "didn't have legal authority" to speak for his daughter, and she's the one who has to say it, not him.

he should have considered it first, i guess. but other parents are arguing over this too, so it's 'it's good' vs. 'it's wrong'.


proposal denied

local parents' views

[ryfitaDF]

Actually, ehehe, they came here for the FREEDOM to serve God. Not under God's name. There's a difference.

I learn more about pilgrims than you'd think, but what do you know? They came here for the freedom to serve God as they wished.

And you're right, it is for religious freedom, but there were many different groups who wanted to serve God the way they wanted to. There were huguenots, quakers, puritans, and others. NOT just pilgrims, "babe".

And because of this religious freedom, you're facing the whole problem of atheists disagreeing about "Under God". They have a freedom not to pursue religious means just like you have a freedom to serve God.

There's two sides to every story, please respect that.

testify!

but i still stand with my "manifest destiny told us to take america from the indians" so "under god" is ok.

[Spirited Away]

testify!

but i still stand with my "manifest destiny told us to take america from the indians" so "under god" is ok.

which part?

IF you have noticed that was a reply to a Bible thumper, but I'll be glad to clarify things if you would like.

Maybe it's the part about people coming to America for religious freedom? I said "the freedom to serve God" because in general, colonists were people who served God. Do you disagree with that?

he should have considered it first, i guess. but other parents are arguing over this too, so it's 'it's good' vs. 'it's wrong'.


proposal denied

local parents' views

I bet he did consider it extensively before bringing this to court. And I disagree with the article "proposal denied" just a bit. I didn't think it was a ruling for the wrong reason... I think it was kind of smart to rule that way because it appeases the Atheists somewhat (as in it didn't offend them except for the fact of losing the case).

[shortie09]

I bet he did consider it extensively before bringing this to court. And I disagree with the article "proposal denied" just a bit. I didn't think it was a ruling for the wrong reason... I think it was kind of smart to rule that way because it appeases the Atheists somewhat (as in it didn't offend them except for the fact of losing the case).

probably. even though he hadn't won his case, other atheists are coming out about that, so...eh.

[ThunderEvermore]

Note: Im new to the convo so I'm just starting over.

IN 1982, ON THE CELEBRATION of his ninetieth birthday, Dumas Malone, noted historian and Thomas Jefferson biographer, was asked, "What is the most fortunate aspect of American history?" Malone replied,
The fact that we became a nation and immediately separated church and state—it has saved us from all the misery that has beset mankind with inquisitions, internecine and civil wars, and other assorted ills.

Considering that the phrase consists of only two words, it implies a lot:

That a deity exists: Traditionally, God is viewed as at least omniscient (all knowing) and omnipotent (with infinite powers). Many religions add other attributes, such as all-loving.
Maleness: "God" implies a male deity. There is no room in the Pledge for any female deity/deities who are normally called "Goddesses."
Uniqueness: The phrase implies monotheism: that there is only a single deity who one who rules over America.
Omnipresent: The phrase implies that God rules over all of America, and is present everywhere.
Control: Most Americans probably believe that the phrase indicates a God who interferes with events on earth, guiding the U.S. in the direction that he wishes.

Imagine, for a moment, that you are a Jewish student. You have the choice of
Reciting a pledge that an Atheist -- a person who has no belief in the existence of a God -- wrote: "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands; one nation, without God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
Refusing to recite it, and leaving yourself open to being belittled, harassed, insulted, assaulted, etc.
As the Pledge of Allegiance Restoration Project writes: "Would you repeat all the words? Would you skip over the phrase "without God?" Would it make you feel comfortable about being an American?" Or, as one person posting to a forum said, would you recite "under all."

Imagine that you are a Christian, and you were forced to read a pledge written by an Muslim -- a person who believes in the existence of Allah: "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands; one nation, under Allah, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
Imagine that you are a Muslim, and you were forced to read a pledge written by an Wiccan -- a person who follows an earth-centered religion, and believes in the existence of a God and a Goddess: "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands; one nation, under the God and Goddess, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
Imagine that you are a Wiccan, and you were forced to read a pledge written by an Christian: "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands; one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

I guess I'll leave it at that right now..

Source

[dasturbd]

I think that there is way too much political correctness now and days. You can't say squat without someone taking it personally and getting on their soapbox of how they are being abused, discriminated...etc.

People always have the choice of not saying the pledge or at least not saying that part and if they want to be true to their religion they can always insert their God...Allah, whoever it may be. God is used as a general statement and back then they didn't have as many denominations as we do today.

They can change it if they want, I really don't care, but I'll be sticking with the old version because I choose to!