Columbine High School Shooting Massacre, Way back in April 20, 1999 Options

[colleen92]

Ok...She died for her beliefs, that IS a good thing, nobody should question it. If you won't die for your beliefs (if you have one), that's your shit...now leave the dead girl's shit alone.

i agree. she did what she did and we shouldn't be arguing about a decision that's already been made. i'm sorry if i stirred up an arguement, but i just felt it was wrong what people were saying. i'll believe what i believe and you believe what you believe

[jue]

I've heard of it, and it sort of reminds me of 911. But anywhoo's >_>
i think over the time period, things have changed and there is more security added to every school to prevent an event like that to happen again. Hmm and as for the 2 kids that went around shooting people, im thinking that they were upset at the fact that they were out-casts of the school and many made fun of them?
And thats why bullying and labels are so gay >_>

[CHiiCKENBUTT]

Why should we feel sorry for her then? She practically commited suicide!
That's just real crack head behavior.

“I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong.”
- - - Bertrand Russell

she didn't commit suicide she died for god. there's nothing wrong with that. this was a really sad story. & i wouldn't lie about someone like god just to save my life. that's crack head behavior. TELL THE TRUTH about god. jeez people.

[TeeNage_WasTeLan...]

^^^ well if you want to die for a God that you don't even know exists, then thats all you. It's not crackhead behavior to deny God to save your life. f**k that.

[kimmytree]

Yeah, I remember. It happened when I was in 4th grade. I dont think the school really planned on telling us. But when we were about to watch a movie in class... the vcr was messing up and we saw clips of it on the news while the teacher was trying to fix the tv. So when ended up watching the news in class. It was pretty scary, especially for a bunch of 9 year olds.

my teachers mentioned that pretty often; they said that we had to worry about the quiet kids. I guess that's a pretty sterotypical thing to say;

Lmao. If that was necessarily true, I would have done something years ago. I'm freakishly quiet. XD

[NoSex]

i agree. she did what she did and we shouldn't be arguing about a decision that's already been made.

I think it's important. Very.

Have you not even been reading the thread? Did you not notice the rather thorough artical post by Mipadi concerning the story behind her "decision?" Did you entirely miss that the incident never even happened? It's a made up story. Did you really miss it, or did you just ignore it?

she didn't commit suicide she died for god. there's nothing wrong with that. this was a really sad story. & i wouldn't lie about someone like god just to save my life. that's crack head behavior. TELL THE TRUTH about god. jeez people.

Refer to the above.
Also, I'm going to go strap some bombs to my chest now.

Life to Allah! Allah lives!

[*I Shot JFK*]

she didn't commit suicide she died for god. there's nothing wrong with that. this was a really sad story. & i wouldn't lie about someone like god just to save my life. that's crack head behavior. TELL THE TRUTH about god. jeez people.

you, my dear, would make a great little terrorist.

Also, I'm going to go strap some bombs to my chest now.

Life to Allah! Allah lives!

how dissapointing... it had already been said

[colleen92]

I think it's important. Very.

Have you not even been reading the thread? Did you not notice the rather thorough artical post by Mipadi concerning the story behind her "decision?" Did you entirely miss that the incident never even happened? It's a made up story. Did you really miss it, or did you just ignore it?


Life to Allah! Allah lives!

i ignored it because it's one of the most true stories around. read She Said Yes. it tells that she did in fact say "yes" on several accounts. maybe when you read it you'll realize that it most definately was a true story and maybe you'll end up respecting her a little more than you do now.


by the way, i'm done arguing with you on this. we obviously have different points of view and we both are too stubborn to see the other side. so i'm done.

[NoSex]

i ignored it because it's one of the most true stories around. read She Said Yes. maybe you'll realize that it most definately was a true story and maybe you'll end up respecting her a little more.
by the way, i'm done arguing with you on this. we obviously have different points of view and we both are too stubborn to see the other side. so i'm done.

How is it one of the "most true stories around?" How exactly do you know such things?

Do you honestly not realize the dangerous implications your statements have? Don't you also notice that you assuming that there is indeed a god, without any real reason, and believing that this god is a particular Christian God which would favor someone dieing over them lieing about their belief in him.

What if she was a hindu and was asked if she believed in Brahma? Would it have been foolish of her to say yes then? I take it you don't believe in Hinduism.

The foolishness in praising martydom is powerful, and plentiful. This is why this is important, this is why it's dangerous.

I'm not stubborn or close minded or anything. I can definately see your side. But, I don't think it is correct. I would read the book, but I just read an article explaining why it isn't true. Although, I would still love to hear what the book has to say exactly about it (Meaning the evidence proving it ever occured in the first place).

Take a look at it. Expand your mind. By ignoring it, you're just admiting your close-minded and willing ignorance.

Here, look (From Wikipedia):

Official reports state that Harris then walked over to the table across from the lower computer row, slapped the top twice with his hand, knelt down, and said "peek-a-boo" before shooting Cassie Bernall in the head. The recoil from the weapon hit his face, breaking his nose. Although it is popularly believed that Bernall was the individual who was asked "Do you believe in God?", the official investigation has attributed this remark not to Bernall but to a surviving student, Valeen Schnurr (see below). Three students who witnessed Bernall's death, including the person that was hiding under the table with her, have testified the exchange did not occur.[16] Nevertheless, others who were in the library asserted the exchange occurred, though none of these students physically witnessed it. They may instead have heard the later exchange between Klebold and Schnurr and been mislead by news reports attributing the words to Bernall. This misunderstanding sparked much debate as to whether the official investigation thoroughly assessed all possibilities.

The official investigation into the shootings concluded that Cassie did not have the exchange.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbine_Hig...of_the_shooters
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassie_Bernall

[TeeNage_WasTeLan...]

either way she got shot in the face. damn, kleibold and harris sure knew how to get their gangsta on

[*Statues/Shadows*]

either way she got shot in the face. damn, kleibold and harris sure knew how to get their gangsta on

Do shut up.

[TeeNage_WasTeLan...]

Do shut up.

If you don't like my opinion you don't have to respond to it. You post some stupid things too y'know.

[*Statues/Shadows*]

I don't doubt that, in fact I'm perfectly well aware of it, but that hardly gives you the right to be repulsive.

[Tribal J_Rome]

If you don't like my opinion you don't have to respond to it. You post some stupid things too y'know.

[colleen92]

How is it one of the "most true stories around?" How exactly do you know such things?

Do you honestly not realize the dangerous implications your statements have? Don't you also notice that you assuming that there is indeed a god, without any real reason, and believing that this god is a particular Christian God which would favor someone dieing over them lieing about their belief in him.

What if she was a hindu and was asked if she believed in Brahma? Would it have been foolish of her to say yes then? I take it you don't believe in Hinduism.

The foolishness in praising martydom is powerful, and plentiful. This is why this is important, this is why it's dangerous.

I'm not stubborn or close minded or anything. I can definately see your side. But, I don't think it is correct. I would read the book, but I just read an article explaining why it isn't true. Although, I would still love to hear what the book has to say exactly about it (Meaning the evidence proving it ever occured in the first place).

Take a look at it. Expand your mind. By ignoring it, you're just admiting your close-minded and willing ignorance.

Here, look (From Wikipedia):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbine_Hig...of_the_shooters
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassie_Bernall

And I can see your side, too. I just don't agree with it either. I do wish you would read the book because it was written by her mother and has more than enough people that have said what happened in it.

I read the article. I think it is interesting there are two extremely different sides of the story. All over whether she said the word "yes" or not. Either way I'd like to share with you a quote from the book that I have been referring to this entire time:

I couldn't see anything when those guys came up to Cassie, but I could recognize her voice. I could hear everything like it was right next to me. One of them asked her if she believed in God. She paused, like she didn't know what she was going to answer, and then she said yes. She must have been scared, but her voices didn't sound shaky. It was strong. Then they asked her why, though they didn't giver her a chance to respond. They just blew her away. (Bernall, 14)

The boy that said this was under a desk about 25 feet away.

[TeeNage_WasTeLan...]

I don't doubt that, in fact I'm perfectly well aware of it, but that hardly gives you the right to be repulsive.

I'm repulsive b/c I say Kleibold and Harris were gangsta for shooting some bitch in the face? Ok. That makes perfect sense. Oh wait, no it doesn't.

[*Statues/Shadows*]

You're repulsive for respecting psychotic murderers. Also, "gengster" really isn't the best way to describe them. But I'm not going to argue with the deluded.

[*jooleeah*]

this somewhat relates, i guess.

soooo. this happened somewhat recently at a friend's school:

Centennial High Teen Charged With Terroristic Threats
(WSB Radio) Roswell Police have arrested a Centennial High School sophomore accused of making online threats against school staff and classmates.
WSB's Richard Sangster reports the 16-year-old boy had a sort of Internet "hit list" on his myspace.com web blog which also named different school groups.

Authorities say, however, a search turned up no weapons or bomb-making material.

"He felt like that he was being mistreated by some of the students, and maybe by some of the staff," says Roswell Police Sgt. B. C. Brackett, "and this was the way he wanted to vent."

The boy was threatening to attack the school on next month's anniversary of the Columbine High School shootings in Colorado. He is charged with making terroristic threats, a felony.

"The student will go through our normal tribunal process, and we'll take appropriate action," says Fulton Schools spokeswoman Mitzi Edge.

At Fulton County Juvenile Court, the 16-year-old's attorney said the boy has been severely bullied and teased about his cochlear implant.

"I never knew how depressed I was. I've always been a good kid. I never felt accepted or loved by anyone except my family," the teen said in court.

The judge ordered the boy may be released to his parents, probably Saturday, under several conditions: The teen must be under adult supervision 24 hours a day; he must get psychological treatment at an inpatient facility or be electronically monitored; he cannot return to Centennial High or have contact with anyone on the "hit list;" and he cannot have access to a computer.

The teen's attorney, Lee Whiteside, says the boy's parents are distraught and that the next step is to "get him the proper counseling and attention that he needs."

A tentative trial date is set for May 26.

Friday, 3.17.2006

Yeah. My friend [who is a sophomore there] said that the kid was planning to shoot all sophomores there. Bleh.

[NoSex]

And I can see your side, too. I just don't agree with it either. I do wish you would read the book because it was written by her mother and has more than enough people that have said what happened in it.

I read the article. I think it is interesting there are two extremely different sides of the story. All over whether she said the word "yes" or not. Either way I'd like to share with you a quote from the book that I have been referring to this entire time:

I couldn't see anything when those guys came up to Cassie, but I could recognize her voice. I could hear everything like it was right next to me. One of them asked her if she believed in God. She paused, like she didn't know what she was going to answer, and then she said yes. She must have been scared, but her voices didn't sound shaky. It was strong. Then they asked her why, though they didn't giver her a chance to respond. They just blew her away. (Bernall, 14)

The boy that said this was under a desk about 25 feet away.

I will look at the book since you spent some time to look at the article. But, consider this:

That boy was named Craig Scott. Craig hid under a desk 25 feet away from the desk that Cassie Bernall and Emily Wyant were hiding under. Emily Wyant is the prime witness and only person to have actually seen the death of Cassie Bernall and live to tell about it. She sat right next to her under the desk and experienced each moment with both her eyes, and her ears. Craig only heard an exchange of words between who he thought was Emily and the shooter. Emily Wyant has come out to say that no such exchange occured. The official account holds that the two girls ducked below the desk and Cassie began to pray aloud: "Dear God. Dear God. Why is this happening? I just want to
go home."

At that moment Harris slapped the top of the desk twice, knelt down, and said "peek-a-boo" before shooting Cassie in the head. No exchange of words were heard or recognized by Emily and several other witnesses have confirmed the same.

Emily Wyant's mother accounts her daughter's story:

Emily was right there next to her, and in fact, she was looking right in
her eyes, so you'd think she would be able to hear that, being right next
to her, if anything was exchanged. And she can't remember anything being
said

In the same room was a girl named Valeen Schnurr. She had been wounded by a shotgun blast and layed nearby Cassie and Emily aside another desk. Valeen prayed aloud: "Oh, my God, oh, my God, don't let me die." Harris made his way to Valeen and asked her if she believed in God. Startled for a moment she thought. She said that, "Yes," she did. Harris preceeded to ask, "Why?" Injured, afraid, and startled, Valeen thought and quickly blurted out, "Because I believe and my parents brought me up that way." Harris reloaded his gun and turned away, he then left the room. Her life was spared and she is still alive today. This is how this story is retold; straight from the horses mouth.

Other students heard this exchange and confirmed its existence. Most of which were in range and vantage to see the entire incident. However, several students could not see it, but only hear it. The same way students could not see Cassie's death. One of those students was Craig Scott; the boy you quoted.

Craig said that he had recognized Cassie's voice. However, when investigators took Craig back to the scene to recount exactly what had happened, the news reports followed:

"He did not actually see
the individuals involved ... Investigators said Scott was asked to point
out where the gunmen were at the time, and he indicated a table where
Valeen Schnurr -- not Bernall was hiding."

Craig misheard. The area he thought the exchange had happened was actually where Valeen hid. Why don't we read about this in "She Said Yes?" Why don't we hear about this at all? Why doesn't the book account dissenting views on the matter? It's because the book isn't an objective study on what actually happened. It's a tool to soothe broken hears, broken minds, broken souls, and to share that mourning with the world in the sensation of it all. It's easier to get over the death of your daughter if you feel she had died for a cause. As that cause didn't truly exist, her mother created it for her. Although this may not be so. Her mother could have been a true believer, because news reports became very mixed early after the incident. However, Cassie's mother would be aware of these dissenting views because the first paper to detail the events published Emily Wyant's version of events, not Craig Scott's.

Here it is, and exert from Valeen's graduation speech from 1999 (The year of the shooting):

Then we heard the gunmen – who we later learned were two boys from our own school – enter the library. They laughed as they shot students at random. I cried and hid my face behind the thick beam that went across the underside of the table. I continued to pray desperately.

Then I felt searing pain as gunfire hit me. The force of it knocked me out from under the table.

“God help me!” I screamed, and then looked up, directly at the gunmen.

“Do you believe in God?” one of them demanded.

At first I was terrified to say yes, but then knew I couldn’t lie.

“Yes,” I said.

“Why?” they asked, taunting.

I mumbled, now in a daze from my wounds, “It’s what my parents have taught me. It’s what I believe.”

Then I hid under the table again, weak from blood loss and hoping they would leave me alone.

Miraculously, they turned away and eventually left the library.

Official reports deny the charge that attacks were calculated in the end. No one had seemed to die for anything other than being at the wrong place at the wrong time. Sorry, as much as you seemed to have wished for it, no martyrs here. No wonderful, bitter sweet, delicate, spiritual victories. It was just a horrible and detestable event. Maybe it would be nice to believe otherwise, but let's face reality, shall we?

We know Valeen's story. She was lucky enough to be able to tell it. Now, even if we grant that Cassie may have been shot for answering the same question in the same way Valeen had, against a heap of evidence that she never did, we would have to ask ourselves a vital question, why? If they were killing for a "yes" answer, why is Valeen still able to tell her story today? Why didn't they shoot her? Why did they then leave the library? Could the opposite hypothesis be drawn? Did Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold instead respect the "yes" answer rather than despise it? If so, isn't that a scary thought?

[colleen92]

Now I don't know what to think. I find your last post very interesting, but why would Craig Scott have heard a shot after Valeen (if that's who said it) said "yes?" Because the two students never shot Valeen.

[TeeNage_WasTeLan...]

who cares??? You guys are making such a big deal over such a meaningless point. What good is it if there are obviously conflicting stories. Just believe whatever one YOU want to believe because obviously from the posts there are many stories to what really happen, and guess what? you will never know because you weren't standing right there.

[colleen92]

who cares??? You guys are making such a big deal over such a meaningless point. What good is it if there are obviously conflicting stories. Just believe whatever one YOU want to believe because obviously from the posts there are many stories to what really happen, and guess what? you will never know because you weren't standing right there.

maybe we've fought ourselves into longing to know the truth? right now i don't know what to believe. so i'd like to find out.

[NoSex]

Now I don't know what to think. I find your last post very interesting, but why would Craig Scott have heard a shot after Valeen (if that's who said it) said "yes?" Because the two students never shot Valeen.

My suggestion would be that Craig was deeply shocked by the entire event and was just simply mistaken. Witness accounts are often very inaccurate. They would be expected to be that much more inaccurate in such stressful and chaotic situations, and even that much more inaccurate given the fact that both of the shooters were firing their weapons rather randomly and there was much commotion. Note also the significance of a distance upwards to 25 feet during all this. It could have been that Craig did indeed hear a shot fired after Valeen said "yes." But, since both gunmen were firing their guns off at random and still attacking other students, the shot he heard may have come from another gun aimed somewhere else. And even beyond these considerations, the pressue the media could have placed on these children and parents for sensational stories could have been amazingly powerful, especially during such a trying time in their lives.

[*Weird addiction*]

Woot...cB's new sherlock holmes(')...I'm proud of you all kiddos...

[colleen92]

My suggestion would be that Craig was deeply shocked by the entire event and was just simply mistaken. Witness accounts are often very inaccurate. They would be expected to be that much more inaccurate in such stressful and chaotic situations, and even that much more inaccurate given the fact that both of the shooters were firing their weapons rather randomly and there was much commotion. Note also the significance of a distance upwards to 25 feet during all this. It could have been that Craig did indeed hear a shot fired after Valeen said "yes." But, since both gunmen were firing their guns off at random and still attacking other students, the shot he heard may have come from another gun aimed somewhere else. And even beyond these considerations, the pressue the media could have placed on these children and parents for sensational stories could have been amazingly powerful, especially during such a trying time in their lives.

maybe, but didn't it say that they just left the room? it said they reloaded their gun and left. where would the shot have come from? surely he wouldn't think a shot from another room was just 25 feet away. it's not that far. it's like me talking to someone on the other side of my living room. i'm sure he was scared and shocked, but could he have messed the story up that bad?