White history month?, racism Options

[Azn Kid from NY]

Kriegsgefangene said:

Sorry if this seems sort of off topic, but for those of you who remember-

This Azn Kid from NY seems like that Asian dude who went to the rehearsal thing for American Idol, and thought he was soooo good. And Simon totally ripped on him. But he thought he was awesome anyways.

Hehe..

This seems very similar in a way.


... I just had to add that. Sorry.

^^^^....lol....kid....where the f**k did u come from? i can tell from ur retarded picture what kind of kid u are...

..do u even understand what we're talking about here? i just looked back at ur posts....and obviously, u dont have a f**king clue...

so keep ur little rat mouth shut and let the big kids talk...ok?

[Spirited Away]

Sorry if this seems sort of off topic, but for those of you who remember-

This Azn Kid from NY seems like that Asian dude who went to the rehearsal thing for American Idol, and thought he was soooo good.  And Simon totally ripped on him.  But he thought he was awesome anyways.

Hehe..

This seems very similar in a way.
... I just had to add that.  Sorry.

William Hung?
Anyway, it is very off topic though.


Azn Kid from NY, I thought you said you would stop cursing?!?!? Since Kryo already gave you a warning, I would not mind increasing your warning level for him. But consider this my warning, do it again and I'll increase it.

I know that you have are passionate about supporting AA, but like Kryo said, KEEP A COOL HEAD.

[william]

this really isn't about the debate but... i thought this was funny.

[edit]by the way, AZN Kid from NY, please stop your ad hominem personal attacks. don't use profane language and keep a cool head. this is your only warning.

^hahah  sorry...im not angry at all....its just that, i write as if i am talking...and i curse alot...so ill stop...

^^^^....lol....kid....where the f**k did u come from?  i can tell from ur retarded picture what kind of kid u are...

..do u even understand what we're talking about here? i just looked back at ur posts....and obviously, u dont have a f**king clue...

so keep ur little rat mouth shut and let the big kids talk...ok?

hmm...

anyways, i agree with sammi and sadolakcedacid, because they're making really good points... but i don't feel the need to debate because they've basically said it all .


edit: darn it, uninspiredfae beat me to my point about aznkidfromny to stop cursing.

[xGlovex]

erm..i sum-waht agree.

[aleandro]

hum... I felt like getting into this so i created an account...too bad i can't post now.

[racoons > you]

or can i just not relate that to the issue at hand at all, and i don't know what i'm talking about..that's it, isn't it?

lol go sammi


this reall yis going in circles a little bit now...

....it does not talk at all about any race being inferior at all...

no but it implies it.

if it came right and said 1 y accepting this u ar admitting inferiority, i bet it wouldnt be as popular

[Azn Kid from NY]

^^^NOBODY is implying at all that blacks and minorities are inferrior...only YOU are....im not talking about inferiority, but for some reason u guys keep on bringing up that word, as if YOU believe they are inferior....just stop using that word....

and like i said, ALL minorities and blacks have the equal ability to succeed...but what they dont have is the equal access and opportunity that whites have...dont u see? and that is what affirmative action provides for them...a chance to be successful....

many blacks leaders and politicians today like Colin Powell, Al Sharpton, and Condalezza Rice, ALL credit affirmative action, which provided them the opportunity, which would not have been available otherwise.....

and u got to think hard about the future.... look at america....its different ethnicities and races grow more diverse every year....soon whites wont even be the majority.....affirmative action is gonna play an EXTREMELY important role....and if we got rid of it, HUGE numbers of minorirties and immigrants of the future will be completely left out and at the bottom....

this is my last post on this matter, if u read my points and reasons CAREFULLY, and u should realize the justice and fairness of affirmative action

[*tweeak*]

james doesnt think theyre inferior. good grief, youre very annoying.

[Azn Kid from NY]

why do u people like to keep on focusing on the MOST INSIGNIFICANT part of my arguements???

why dont u respond to my MAIN POINT??

*sigh...why do people gotta be so dumb....

[sadolakced acid]

^^^NOBODY is implying at all that blacks and minorities are inferrior...only YOU are....im not talking about inferiority, but for some reason u guys keep on bringing up that word, as if YOU believe they are inferior....just stop using that word....

you're right. i'm the one saying that. I'm the one who belives minorities are inferior. Because they need extra help in order to compete with whites. Which means they are inferior.

why dont u respond to my MAIN POINT??

and your main point is... that minorites need help in order to compete with whites?

this is my last post on this matter, if u read my points and reasons CAREFULLY, and u should realize the justice and fairness of affirmative action

it is not my job to realized the justice and fairness of affirmative action. It is your job to support yourself with facts and reason as to why affirmative action is good.

as for if this is your last post: then some people consider that you have lost the debate.

anyways: if you wish to do some more debating, here's an outline of my points. all set up for you to say are untrue, with facts tho.

1. Affirmative grants points based on race. Anything granted based on race is racist.

2. Not all blacks are disadvantaged, but all blacks recieve points as if they were disadvantaged.

3. Affirmative action puts unqualified minorities in positions they cannot handle, resulting in thier failure to preform the duties of that position.

4. Affirmative action is the equivalent of 2 people running for president, A black man and a white man. The white man gets 50 more electoral votes than the black man, yet the black man gets 60 `bonus' electoral votes for being black, to 'counteract' the racisim voters must have had. So the black man wins the election and all is just and equal.

5. Affirmative action places a value on the color of your skin, so that one day, black children and white children can hold hands together at a medium-hard school. The black child has been placed in a school much to hard for him, because he is black. the White child has been placed in a school much too easy for him, so the white child does much better in school than the black child.

[*tweeak*]

why do u people like to keep on focusing on the MOST INSIGNIFICANT part of my arguements???

why dont u respond to my MAIN POINT??

*sigh...why do people gotta be so dumb....

well thats ironic

[bebebasa89]

black history month its like saying we NEED a month to remind us not to be racist...i mean we should do it anyway... its like were trying not to be racist by having this month & watever but its like saying oh we feel bad for enslaving them ...so lets make a month dedicated to those who suffered i dont know if anyone gets what im saying but by trying not to be racist we still are ...but i dont agree that african americans have previledges...because there's scholarships and stuff for asians as well...

[sadolakced acid]

yet a scholarship only open to whites would be shot down. A college for only men would be shot down.

[Azn Kid from NY]

ok, those first 3 are your main points...i'll respond and say my 3 main points in response.......and the last 2 dont count because they are examples ( very shitty examples i might add, examples that try to provide a heavily distorted view of affirmative action)

1. Affirmative grants points based on race. Anything granted based on race is racist.

affirmative action levels the playing field by giving equal opportunities to blacks and minorities that would not be available otherwise...if we didnt have it, we would be stuck on the extremely racist system that existed before affirmative action...of course its not perfect...trust me, congress thought of every possible option, but chose on affirmative action because its the best system we have in order to provide equal chance for all......and that makes it ur job, to say tell me a better system, if u can think of one...not to just want to get rid of it and change it back to the old, extremely racist system... u need to provide me an alternative program.....

2. Not all blacks are disadvantaged, but all blacks recieve points as if they were disadvantaged.

i agree that in this day, that is a problem...but u do know that the purpose affirmative actions naturally coincides with helping the poor....and that is a FACT, that affirmative action,due to it nature, DOES indeed greatly benefit the poor (of any race)

3. Affirmative action puts unqualified minorities in positions they cannot handle, resulting in thier failure to preform the duties of that position.

sadolakced acid, u see it as unqualified minorities in positions they cant handle?...thats funny.....
I see it as QUALIFIED minorities in postions that they CAN handle, but NEVER had the opportunity to achieve it UNTIL affirmative action....

REMEMBER, its all about EQUAL ACCESS and EQUAL OPPORTUNITY for ALL RACES....the white man used to have MORE access and opportunity...then affirmative action was passed and it has helped blacks and minorities have almost to equal access and opportunity...and yes i said ALMOST....the system still hugely tilted in the white mans favor, NOT the other way around, like u people claim

now this is really my last post...now it just comes down to what system u personally believe to be the fairest

[sadolakced acid]

i'll tell you a better system.

benifits based on economic situation, which is the real problem.

affirmative action levels the playing field by giving equal opportunities to blacks and minorities that would not be available otherwise...

it would not be avalible otherwise, because they would not have been qualified.

not to just want to get rid of it and change it back to the old, extremely racist system...

the other system is less racist that this one. the other one depended on the individual reviewing the people. this one comes out straight and says "we'll give these races extra benifits, so which one are you?"

and that is a FACT, that affirmative action,due to it nature, DOES indeed greatly benefit the poor (of any race)

no, affirmative action, due to it's nature, happens to benifit some poor, because there are poor minorities. as well as rich ones, who also get benifits.

REMEMBER, its all about EQUAL ACCESS and EQUAL OPPORTUNITY for ALL RACES....the white man used to have MORE access and opportunity...then affirmative action was passed and it has helped blacks and minorities have almost to equal access and opportunity...and yes i said ALMOST....the system still hugely tilted in the white mans favor, NOT the other way around, like u people claim

i'm going to bold my emphasises, and add things in italics

REMEMBER, its all about EQUAL ACCESS and EQUAL OPPORTUNITY for ALL RACES including whites, who are disadvantaged by affirmative action and do not have an equal opportunity ....the white man used to have MORE access and opportunity because of slavery, which incedently was abolished over 100 years ago, and civil rights got rid of most other stuff. almost 50 years ago....then affirmative action was passed and it has helped blacks and minorities have gotten benifits which whites do not have, making it racism

the next part is proved wrong by facts, whether or not you accept them.

almost to equal access and opportunity...and yes i said ALMOST....the system still hugely tilted in the white mans favor, NOT the other way around, like u people claim

if a black and white man both apply to michigan state, and they both have everything exactly the same, except for SAT scores and race, the black man had a 900 on the SATs and the white man had a 1600 on the SATs, is the black man at a disadvantage?

[sammi rules you]

Kriegsgefangene said:

^^^^....lol....kid....where the f**k did u come from?  i can tell from ur retarded picture what kind of kid u are...

..do u even understand what we're talking about here? i just looked back at ur posts....and obviously, u dont have a f**king clue...

so keep ur little rat mouth shut and let the big kids talk...ok?

he came from my school.
he's one of my best friends.
his picture's not retarded.
what kind of kid is he, then, since you must know everything about him?
he understands perfectly well what you're talking about, just as everyone else does.
i'm sure he's a lot older than you.

why don't you stop insulting people, and actually debate, open up your mind a bit to other's opinions?



i'll reply with an argument in a bit.

[Kriegsgefangene]

Azn Kid from NY, I thought you weren't going to 'argue' (debate) about this anymore? You said you had made your last post, and now you are posting again.

If you can't keep something as simple as that, how can we be sure all your reasons are valid on keeping affirmative action?

[Kriegsgefangene]

why do u people like to keep on focusing on the MOST INSIGNIFICANT part of my arguements???

why dont u respond to my MAIN POINT??

*sigh...why do people gotta be so dumb....

Again, sorry for the double posting. (I don't get on boards so much, so I don't really links posts, or for the record, even know how to)

So-

When you get insurance- you read the LARGE print, and sign the paper, right? What about the small print? The INSIGNIFICANT STUFF! That stuff matters the most. Right? You ever get screwed over in a contract due to the rules and regulations of small print?

[mai_z]

people over compensate for what they really have no right to. They didn't earn the right to be black, they didn't make some type of achievement to earn the 'black' status. If they want to be equal with everyone else, they should act equal, you don't get to choose when to be equal and when not to be.

[Azn Kid from NY]

The keyword here is Racism... and I think its ironic you guys are all calling a policy aimed at fighting the legacy of racism racist

What about slavery?! We fought a civil war in which hundreds of thousands Americans died to abolish slavery--to grant blacks freedom like any white man.. After gaining freedom 140 years ago, did they gain equality?? NO

Now imagine your ancestors were newly freed slaves--poor, illiterate, ignorant.... still forced to work in the cotton fields.... discriminated against.... in danger of being lynched if they dared to vote or speak out... the KKK setting burning crosses on your lawn... Now their sons were also poor, illiterate, and ignorant... and their son's sons too... and so on b/c Blacks in this country didnt have access to a proper education until maybe the 1960's... and arguably not even today!!

I suppose you read about segregation too in your history classes.. how blacks had to sit in the back of buses, use "colored only" bathrooms and water fountains, and attend inferior, segregated schools. Segregation only ended a generation ago... think about that...

Think of all the social and economic inequality today CAUSED BY RACISM THAT SPECIFICALLY TARGETED BLACKS.... not just any poor people, but blacks...


If you still disagree with AA, I hope you see at least why very intelligent people--much smarter than you or me--thought that AA was a good idea and made it a reality... AA is not a simple and clear cut issue... There is NO obvious answer... perhaps there are flaws, and ways that AA can be improved so that well-off blacks do not get an unfair advantage over whites... BUT ON THE WHOLE, Affirmative Action fights the legacy of racism towards black people in America...



BTW, this is azn's brother... and asians do not benefit at all from affirmative action and nowadays reverse discrimination probably hurts asian minorities even more than whites...

[Spirited Away]

The keyword here is Racism... and I think its ironic you guys are all calling a policy aimed at fighting the legacy of racism racist

Affirmative Action (AA) may have worked in that ERA, but we've since moved on. I will not deny that racism is still exists, but AA is something that chains us to our past and not letting us fully face the future. There is no doubt in my mind that AA has helped us to be where we are today, but AA must CHANGE and adapt to this society where discrimination is a bigger issue than racism. And yes, there is a slight difference between the two. Nowdays, we have hate not only from color but from beliefs, lifestyle, economic class... etc. That means, Whites against Whites, Blacks against Blacks, Asians against Asians and so on...

Yes, there is STILL a glass ceiling seperating us from old, White males who domineer the top offices in high rise buildings, however, even that glass is becoming thiner and thiner, and in a few small and young industries they have been broken. We are evolving. Or if you are religious and dislike the term, think that we are moving away from our past and America is growing up.

What about slavery?!  We fought a civil war in which hundreds of thousands Americans died to abolish slavery--to grant blacks freedom like any white man.. After gaining freedom 140 years ago, did they gain equality?? NO

What ABOUT slavery? You said it yourself, we "fought" a war and we have abolished slavery. No one in our generation owned slaves nor condone it so why must people of this generation and the next, and the next, continue to to plant and nurture the bad seeds of our parents', grandparents', and so on?

What kind of equality are you looking for? For every high ranking position to belongs to a Black man/Hispanic/Asian? What then, becomes of the White man?

Now imagine your ancestors were newly freed slaves--poor, illiterate, ignorant.... still forced to work in the cotton fields.... discriminated against.... in danger of being lynched if they dared to vote or speak out... the KKK setting burning crosses on your lawn...  Now their sons were also poor, illiterate, and ignorant... and their son's sons too... and so on b/c Blacks in this country didnt have access to a proper education until maybe the 1960's... and arguably not even today!! 

Now imagine with me a crime was done to your family by my family. Lets say my grandfather killed your grandfather on purpose rendering your family financially unstable. At the scene of the killing, my grandmother was there and could've stopped my grandfather but didn't dare speak out against him. Your father seeks justice and had my grandfather jailed for life, or if you'd like put on death row.

My father is apologetic and cannot believe the horror and pain that my grandfather has caused your family and decides that our family will forever owe yours a debt or favor. We send your family money if you all need it, give your family shelter if need be. We know well that those things cannot equal to a lost of life, but we continue to try and make it up.

Years later we are born and we are well aware of our past. Would you hold me responsible for a crime that my grandfather committed?

I am leaving out quite a few points, but I need to you answer to the question right above.

Segregation only ended a generation ago... think about that...

But it ENDED, nonetheless.

Think of all the social and economic inequality today CAUSED BY RACISM THAT SPECIFICALLY TARGETED BLACKS.... not just any poor people, but blacks...
If you still disagree with AA, I hope you see at least why very intelligent people--much smarter than you or me--thought that AA was a good idea and made it a reality...  AA is not a simple and clear cut issue... There is NO obvious answer... perhaps there are flaws, and ways that AA can be improved so that well-off blacks do not get an unfair advantage over whites... BUT ON THE WHOLE, Affirmative Action fights the legacy of racism towards black people in America...BTW, this is azn's brother... and asians do not benefit at all from affirmative action and nowadays reverse discrimination probably hurts asian minorities even more than whites...

You see, there are many intelligent people, more so than you and I, who do not agree with AA. And before you can say anything, they not need be "racists", they could be logical thinkers.

AA may fight the legacy that slavery left behind, but it must adapt to our contemporary society. Bubbling "WHITE" on race questions doesn't mean a person is part of a majority, he/she could be a hardworking individual, who lives in a trailer park and can barely put food on the table every night.

So, in the midst of passionately giving an opportunity to someone whose ancestors were disadvantaged, AA takes away an opportunity for someone whose forefather did something wrong.

The fact that NO morally minded LAW can EVER regulate the mind and feelings of human deposits AA into a tough position. Just as love cannot be regulated, hatred can't. Sure, the law can prevent the burning of a colored man but it cannot prevent someone, anyone, from hating that man.

In seeking equality, it creates reverse inequality. You admit it yourself when you say that Asians hurt more with AA (reverse discrimination).

I actually do not care for the ridding of AA, but I would like to see a change, if possible.

[racoons > you]

BTW, this is azn's brother... and asians do not benefit at all from affirmative action and nowadays reverse discrimination probably hurts asian minorities even more than whites...

ur better at this than he is. you at least aknowledge that htere could possibly be problems with AA, rather than blasting everyone else on principle and u managed not to swear. well done!

affirmative action levels the playing field

i still dont understand how u can logically say that giving AA points to an entire race, regardless of economic status creates equality, where it clearly gives an advantage based on a factor which others cannot compete with or do anything about.

I hope you see at least why very intelligent people--much smarter than you or me--thought that AA was a good idea and made it a reality...

yes, but this system is now rapidly becoming, if it were not so already, out of date. as sadolekced and fae have pointed out, a system which perhaps gives out points based on a wealth situation, i.e. helping the poor, be they black white or polka dot would be more appropriate in today's society. a wealthy black person should not be entitled to AA benefits while a poorer member of another race recieves nothing under that system. that is injustice.

why do u people like to keep on focusing on the MOST INSIGNIFICANT part of my arguements???

because they detract from your main point. if you dont want them to be picked up on, dont include them. the nature of debate involves seeing the weak points in an opposing view and addressing them.

again, if you dont want your opponent to see a flawed aspect of your argument, or you feel you can't defend it if it is caught out, dont put include it. dont do so, then criticise others who see the weaknesses in your argument, when this is exactly their aim and part of the ethos of debate

further more, the main point of your argument, that AA provides equal opportunities for minorities, has been addressed numerous times, u've chosen, for the most part, not to respond, but use the same argument over and over, even as it gets churned up, and people ofer more reasonable solutions to the problem. when you do make an important new point, it will be duly addressed

[sammi rules you]

cmon, someone reply against james! i like this topic!

[*mzkandi*]

LOL...White history month...are you kidding me....let me take a moment to collect myself..Yes lets us take a month to talk about the history of white man's struggles...psshhh...Black history is well deserved seeing all the struggles we( yes we cuz i am BLACK) have gone through but that shouldnt suggest i dont think other minorites dont deserve recongition becuz they do......

[sammi rules you]

^ will you PLEASE read the rest of the thread before posting. i'm not going through my entire argument AGAIN.