To: the Nice Guys, That Finish Last... Options

[xlauren73x]

i've seen this one too.. i think i like it better

I've read the tribute to the nice guys; this is my response.

This is my tribute to the nice girls. To the nice girls who are overlooked, who become friends and nothing more, who spend hours fixating upon their looks and their personalities and their actions because it must be they that are doing something wrong. This is for the girls who don't give it up on the first date, who don't want to play mind games, who provide a comforting hug and a supportive audience for a story they've heard a thousand times. This is for the girls who understand that they aren't perfect and that the guys they're interested in aren't either, for the girls who flirt and laugh and worry and obsess over the slightest glance, whisper, touch, because somehow they are able to keep alive that hope that maybe... maybe this time he'll have understood. This is an homage to the girls who laugh loud and often, who are comfortable in skirts and sweats and combat boots, who care more than they should for guys who don't deserve their attention. This is for those girls who have been in the trenches, who have watched other girls time and time again fake up and make up and f**k up the guys in their lives without saying a word. This is for the girls who have been there from the beginning and have heard the trite words of advice, from "there are plenty of fish in the sea," to "time heals all wounds." This is to honor those girls who know that guys are just as scared as they are, who know that they deserve better, who are seeking to find it.

This is for the girls who have never been in love, but know that it's an experience that they don't want to miss out on. For the girls who have sought a night with friends and been greeted by a night of catcalling, rude comments and explicit invitations that they'd rather not have experienced. This is for the girls who have spent their weekends sitting on the sidelines of a beer pong tournament or a case race, or playing Florence Nightingale for a vomiting guy friend or a comatose crush, who have received a drunk phone call just before dawn from someone who doesn't care enough to invite them over but is still willing to pass out in their bed. This is for the girls who have left sad song lyrics in their away messages, who have tried to make someone understand through a subliminally appealing profile, who have time and time again dropped their male friend hint after hint after hint only to watch him chase after the first blonde girl in a skirt. This is for the girls who have been told that they're too good or too smart or too pretty, who have been given compliments as a way of breaking off a relationship, who have ever been told they are only wanted as a friend.

This one's for the girls who you can take home to mom, but won't because it's easier to sleep with a whore than foster a relationship; this is for the girls who have been led on by words and kisses and touches, all of which were either only true for the moment, or never real to begin with. This is for the girls who have allowed a guy into their head and heart and bed, only to discover that he's just not ready, he's just not over her, he's just not looking to be tied down; this is for the girls who believe the excuses because it's easier to believe that it's not that they don't want you, it's that they don't want anyone. This is for the girls who have had their hearts broken and their hopes dashed by someone too cavalier to have cared in the first place; this is for the nights spent dissecting every word and syllable and inflection in his speech, for the nights when you've returned home alone, for the nights when you've seen from across the room him leaning a little too close, or standing a little too near, or talking a little too softly for the girl he's with to be a random hookup. This is for the girls who have endured party after party in his presence, finally having realized that it wasn't that he didn't want a relationship: it was that he didn't want you. I honor you for the night his dog died or his grandmother died or his little brother crashed his car and you held him, thinking that if you only comforted him just right, or said the right words, or rubbed his back in the right way then perhaps he'd realize what it was that he already had. This is for the night you realized that it would never happen, and the sunrise you saw the next morning after failing to sleep.

This is for the "I really like you, so let's still be friends" comment after you read more into a situation than he ever intended; this is for never realizing that when you choose friends, you seldom choose those which make you cry yourself to sleep. This is for the hugs you've received from your female friends, for the nights they've reassured you that you are beautiful and intelligent and amazing and loyal and truly worthy of a great guy; this is for the despair you all felt as you sat in the aftermath of your tears, knowing that that night the only companionship you'd have was with a pillow and your teddy bear. This is for the girls who have been used and abused, who have endured what he was giving because at least he was giving something; this is for the stupidity of the nights we've believed that something was better than nothing, though his something was nothing we'd have ever wanted. This is for the girls who have been satisified with too little and who have learned never to expect anything more: for the girls who don't think that they deserve more, because they've been conditioned for so long to accept the scraps thrown to them by guys.

This is what I don't understand. Men sit and question and whine that girls are only attracted to the mean guys, the guys who berate them and belittle them and don't appreciate them and don't want them; who use them for sex and think of little else than where their next conquest will be made. Men complain that they never meet nice girls, girls who are genuinely interested and compelling, who are intelligent and sweet and smart and beautiful; men despair that no good women want to share in their lives, that girls play mindgames, that girls love to keep them hanging. Yet, men, I ask you: were you to meet one of these genuinely interested, thrillingly compelling, interesting and intelligent and sweet and beautiful and smart girls, were you to give her your number and wait for her to call... and if you were to receive a call from her the next day and she, in her truthful, loyal, intelligent and straightforward nice girl fashion, were to tell you that she finds you intriguing and attractive and interesting and worth her time and perhaps material from which she could fashion a boyfriend, would you or would you not immediately call your friends to tell them of the "stalker chick" you'd met the night prior, who called you and wore her heart on her sleeve and told the truth? And would you, or would you not, refuse to make plans with her, speak with her, see her again, and once again return to the bar or club or party scene and search once more for this "nice girl" who you just cannot seem to find? Because therein lies the truth, guys: we nice girls are everywhere. But you're not looking for a nice girl. You're not looking for someone genuinely interested in your intermural basketball game, or your anatomy midterm grade, or that argument you keep having with your father; you're looking for a quick fix, a night when you can pretend to have a connection with another human being which is just as disposable as the condom you were using during it.

So don't say you're on the lookout for nice girls, guys, when you pass us up on every step you take. Sometimes we go undercover; sometimes we go in disguise: sometimes when that girl in the low cut shirt or the too tight miniskirt won't answer your catcalls, sometimes you're looking at a nice girl in whore's clothing - - we might say we like the attention, we might blush and giggle and turn back to our friends, but we're all thinking the same thing: "This isn't me. Tomorrow morning, I'll be wearing a teeshirt and flannel shorts, I'll have slept alone and I'll be making my hungover best friend breakfast. See through the disguise. See me." You never do. Why? Because you only see the exterior, you only see the slutty girl who welcomes those advances. You don't want the nice girl.. so don't say you're looking for a relationship: relationships take time and energy and intent, three things we're willing to extend - - but in return, we're looking for compassion and loyalty and trust, three things you never seem willing to express. Maybe nice guys finish last, but in the race they're running they're chasing after the whores and the sluts and the easy-targets... the nice girls are waiting at the finish line with water and towels and a congradulatory hug (and yes, if she's a nice girl and she likes you, the sweatiness probably won't matter), hoping against hope that maybe you'll realize that they're the ones that you want at the end of that silly race.

So maybe it won't last forever. Maybe some of those guys in that race will turn in their running shoes and make their way to the concession stand where we're waiting; however, until that happens, we still have each other, that silly race to watch, and all the chocolate we can eat (because what's a concession stand at a race without some chocolate?)

[lKVNiiKINKYl]

awww thats so sweet =)

[sheepy]

yo that is so true. okay, i should treat nice guys nicer now ;x

[reanimateddroid]

nice guys may not finish first all the time but from my experiences it sometimes better to lose then to win. Sometiime u get a better payoff later then if u had won

[CrazayChristian]

Dammit, I feared this would be posted...

Ok, here goes another teaching of why "Nice guys suck".

Nice guys don't Suck. Blind, stuipid nice guys are what you're talking about. And I KNOW what this is, I WAS (and slightly still am) one of these "Nice guys".

If you read this and thought "Why don't women like it when you do all these awesomely nice things?" Then you don't "get it".

"Nice guys" break what I call the "3 Too's"

Too fast
Too much
Too soon

They go from Hi to I love you within days, and this is a BIG mistake.

They spill thier heart out with romantic things, another BIG mistake

And, they do it basically to "Pay the woman for her company".

You don't take a woman out to a big flashy restraunt your first date. Infact, you don't even call it a date. You should start out with:
"You seem like you could be a really good FRIEND(note) and I figured you want to go out for coffee/tea"

This says "I'm not some guy trying to rush into a relationship. You don't KNOW if I even WANT a relationship. So, I'll take you to a small meeting, where it will be just you, me, and our conversation." This also says that you aren't BUYING her company with food.

"Nice guys" have been known to buy company, but one thing you can't get mad about is her flaking off,not returning phone calls,ect.
To her, it's not a big deal, she didn't and probably even forgot she didn't. So, DON'T BRING IT UP AND ACT LIKE YOU REMEMBERED. That shows that you ARE intersted, and you OBSESS over things.

Nice guys aren't doomed because thier nice, thier doomed because they are SCARED. They think they won't get anything better, so they buy things, do favors, and try to work and pay for attention.

I would go into detail, but I'll just like to This
At the bottom of the page.

-Joshua

[*mipadi*]

Well, your analysis is interesting, CrazayChristian, and I agree with some things you said, but I think you're kind of overthinking the whole situation. Look, when it comes down to it, nice guys don't finish last because they try too hard, or they do too much too soon, or they don't do it right. Yeah, all those are good points on how to avoid certain pitfalls in dating, but nice guys don't get anywhere because, generally speaking, they don't try at all. Instead of just asking a girl straight-up on a date, they try to become good friends with her in the hopes she will notice how great they are, or they throw out clues in the hopes she will notice their interest. Successful guys, on the other hand, just ask--and that's why things work out for them.

It's not a matter of not taking a girl to a fancy restaurant so that you don't seem to be trying too hard, or calling her up because she didn't call you, or whatever. That, in and of itself, is kind of a bad idea, because just like those nice guys, a guy like that is still "playing the game," trying to get a point across without having to actually say it.

No, the key is to really be straight-up honest about your intentions. Being subtle and saying something like "You seem like you could be a really good friend, and I figured you want to go out for coffee/tea," is just a bad idea because then what's the girl going to think? She's going to wonder, "Is this guy a friend, or is he interested?" And that's where nice guys go wrong, because they make the relationship ambiguous.

If you want a date, just ask. No "playing the game," no being subtle. Just say, "Hey, what are you doing this Friday? I'd like to take you to a movie." or "I'd like to take you out for coffee." Bam, done. It's clear you're interested, it's clear it's a date, there's no ambiguity. Nice guys fail because they try to make the dating thing ambiguous. They figure, well, I'll make it kind of sound like a date, and kind of sound like a "just friends" thing, because if she likes me, then I can make it into a date, and if she doesn't, I can make it look like I just want to be friends, and then I won't get shot down. Nope. Wrong. In romance, you have to take a risk. You have to risk getting shot down. Even the best guys get shot down. It happens to everyone. So don't worry about it. Just be cool and if it works out, great; if not, move on to someone else, but don't dwell on your failure. It's not your fault; at least you gave it your best shot.

Be cool, be confident, just remember that you are a great person and damn it, if she doesn't want to go out on a date, she's not worth your time anyway, because there're plenty more women. If you keep that in mind, you won't have to worry about other women, because she'll say yes. Women love a confident guy--everyone feels more comfortable around a confident person, and confident people are simply much, much harder to shoot down. But again, the key is to not play games, or try to be subtle. You see a girl you like, go up to her, look her in the eye, and just ask her flat-out, without stammering or beating around the bush, for a date. It's not as scary as it seems.

And if all goes well (which it will), then you'll be one of a rare breed: a nice guy with girlfriend.

[*RiC3xBoy*]

I agree with mipadi although I also agree with CrazyChristian on that Nice Guy's main problem is FEAR. They are scared to straight forward and scared to disapoint the girl so they do whatever they can for her.

[CrazayChristian]

Your about the 25.....thousand and first person to tell me I over think things.

Yes, I guess I didn't mention they don't try. I was throwing in advice assuming they DID try. But, yes i over think things.

But, one thing I did mention (and you sort of touched on) was how guys sort of "ruin" thier chances before they can say anything (3 too's) they end up saying and doing things before they even get to a relationship(or how you said "drop clues"/"beat around the bush") this is yet a result of fear.

All you need is your spine, I think I saw it next to your balls and to the left of your brain.

But seriously, "We have nothing to fear, but fear itself!"

[i_r_hispanic]

Nice guys are like mysterious and creepy i mean why be afraid...or shy especially if you want a good relationship!!! i cant handle shy or the nice it fresk me out!!!

[CrazayChristian]

^er...wha?

They have thier reasons, bad past, sheltered, just them.

I don't ask questions, things happen.

[*RiC3xBoy*]

Your about the 25.....thousand and first person to tell me I over think things.

Yes, I guess I didn't mention they don't try. I was throwing in advice assuming they DID try. But, yes i over think things.

But, one thing I did mention (and you sort of touched on) was how guys sort of "ruin" thier chances before they can say anything (3 too's) they end up saying and doing things before they even get to a relationship(or how you said "drop clues"/"beat around the bush") this is yet a result of fear.

All you need is your spine, I think I saw it next to your balls and to the left of your brain.

But seriously, "We have nothing to fear, but fear itself!"

It actually takes more than just a spine. Theres also the confidence factor as well as the way you present yourself to the girl. Also, there is the mater of how you talk and what your trying to say about yourself.

[*mipadi*]

Yeah...but that all stems from having a bit of spine.

[*RiC3xBoy*]

Yea, but I wasn't sure if he meant all of it.

[michelina0kudelk...]

Nice Guys are Such Whiny Bitches

(By the way, I'm not saying I agree with this entire essay on the subject, but it is food for thought.)

You should agree with everything he said, it's true, I'm a girl, TRUST me. Whoever wrote this:
1) I'm almost positive that YOU are the one labelling the girls boyfriend as an a-hole
2) Girls like Balls (just like the guy in the article)
3) Intelligent girls who are going places just don't see ANYTHING in the doormat they bitch to, and if you find playing Grand Theft Auto important....YOU NEED TO SORT OUT YOUR PRIORITIES! Possibly school? Good marks are a good thing, we like intelligent men.
4) You aren't a nice guy, you are a doormat, there is a difference. The guys we date are nice guys, that would be why we like them, there is an occasional a-hole in the bunch, but most of them we really do truly like! And if she really is dating a true a-hole, then she's a dumbass, and that's that.
5) Just like the guy said in his article, just kiss us, don't ask, that's lame, on most occasions anyway.
6) And from your essay, you hold back from hugging us? You think a hug is a big thing?? You need to think about that if you find a hug big. (The people you have labelled as "assholes" give us hugs when we are in distress, it comforts us.)
7) No I am not being a bitch, well maybe a bit, but if you ever want to get a girl, you HAVE to show some backbone! I do feel bad for you, you just DON'T understand girls! And the girl who is your good friend, she thinks of you more as brotherly because you are always there, you don't have a chance with her, well maybe a very minute one, but not much.

*P.S. wish I could try to help you, but I have things to do, but one big tip for anyone...Doormat is not the way to go..

And by the way, it could be a possibility that you are going for someone who is perhaps a bit out of your league....? It would be nice if the whole world accepted everyone and their looks and everyone was just one big happy family where the nerdy guy with glasses, acne and captain of the mathletes could date the thin blonde with blue eyes and a fabulous wardrobe. Terribly sorry, but guys you have to go for people in your league, there may be the odd girl who doesn't care about looks, but she usually doesn't have them herself. But. it will always be the way it is, hot guys and hot girls, and nerdy guys and nerdy girls.

[CrazayChristian]

It's damn good I didn't read that a few months ago. (Yes, I was a "Nice Guy") And, I don't regret it. Now, I have experiance and I can UNDERSTAND why they are the way they are.

Anyways everything he wrote, was almost repeatitive. It could all be sumed up in:

Grow some balls. Women test you, and if you don't lay down the law, then you will never get anywhere. Stop being a door mat.

I'm suprised I never spoke of this before, but yes, women test you. They will literally ask you to do something, ask you a question, or do something, and WATCH what you do.
If she waits outside her door, and you don't kiss her, BAM you lost respect.
If she asks you to do something at a constant rate,you are required to either tell her no, or tell her yes WITH FLAIR.("Eh...I MIGHT beable to fit it in, but you defninately owe me. I'm not playing here. So, if you're willing to pay, I'm willing to work."Something along these lines, don't go down too easily.)

I think there is an actual book that's supposed to be like "The Bible to Dating" I found it in one of my cousins emails. I think it's something like:

Double Your Dating

I could be wrong though.

Anyways, good luck to all the door mats out there.

[*mipadi*]

I think you're all overthinking the dating situation way too much. You have to "lay down the law" in a relationship? WTF? No. Relationships do not work when one person tries to "lay down the law" and control the other person; they work when both partners take a mutually active role in controlling and influencing the relationship.

And all this about "women testing you" and watching your every move is a stretch. I mean, any time when you begin dating, the other person is examining you, just as you are examining them. But they're not trying to pounce on flaws. Look, if you successfully get a date, it means the other party is at least a bit interested; and since no one likes a bad date, she's not likely to go out of her way to make it bad. Even if you stumble or make a few small mistakes, it's not the end of the world, you still have a chance.

The key isn't to be perfect, or "lay down the law," or anything like that. The key to being successful is to be comfortable with yourself, and with the person you are with, because then you will be comfortable with the situation, and you will just know what to do. And even if you slip up a bit, she'll be comfortable enough that it won't matter.

Look, if there's one thing to be said about nice guys, it's that they're sociable; girls like them in the first place because they're good all-around guys. The reason they don't get dates is because they have no confidence and are too nervous; but if they get over that, they will be successful, because chances are, they have a good idea how to be a good date--they just need the opportunity. Telling nice guys that they have to "lay down the law" and do all these complicated things to attract women will only make them worry more and make them more nervous--and there's no need for that. Nice guys don't need to change their personality, they're generally fine how they are; they just need some guts and confidence in order to be successful in dating.

[squashie]

just do what's right and be a nice guy. integrity. even if it doesnt matter to anyone, do it cuz you know its right. and cool =D

[heyyfrankie]

TOPICS MERGED

[Death2Smilee]

Yay!!! NICE PEOPLE IN GENERAL!!!
Why must we split the nice girls and guys?
All are wonderful. All deserve one rightful thing. Yes, their are the slight differences, but it's good to salute the little angels that stand before us all.
~~~edit~~~
Oh no, is this turning into a relationships thing? C'MON!!!! Why does have to be relationships? Does anyone ever think "I'll do this for the greater good," Not that you'll eventually date or something? Still, I love the nice ppl theme. Don't make it about going out with everyone, unless that was the point in the first place.

[oneandonlytammie]

Ugh, I hate reading long posts. I like nice guys.

[glit_gal]

cheers to nice guys all over the world

[*incoherent*]

didnt feel like reading all that.

im sure it has something to do with the title and id have to agree with it being true.

[sadolakced acid]

i used to be a nice guy.

then i got tired of it.
so i've decided to simply not be friends with girls. works out quite nicely.
it didn't really last tho.

so now i'm back to reassuring my ex girlfriend that her boyfriend isn't gay.

what fun.

[*suddenly she*]

^haha.
they don't always finish last.

[*iNyCxShoRT*]

I nice guys. I know one right now, he's my best friend.