Abortion Options

[Comptine]

sadolakced acid is not being (too) off topic. president bush is a strong supporter of pro-life and is actually taking steps into banning abortion.

what's wrong with more babies?

- our world is already over populated. there has to be some sort of control.
- some people are horrible parents. it's just logical that with more babies, there will be more people suffering abuse.

and that's the debate. whether or not abortion is murder. whether or not the fetus is a human being.

[sadolakced acid]

Um, first of all what's wrong with more babies? you act like it's a bad thing... second of all, I'm totally against all kinds of contraceptives.... don't get me started on that issue because I don't know to much abut it, but I am against it (even condoms).

Finally, I think that that post ^^^ was totally off topic (sadolakced) b/c we aren't debating whther or not Bush wants more babies, we're debating over whether abortion is good or bad. and what it comes down to is that you're killing a human being. THat's bad.

more babies are fine if bush wants to raise them himself, and have them himself.

he's forcing other people to have more babies.

and that post was to illustrate how the arguement of "if you can't use a condom you should have to have the baby" is moot, as bush is leaning towards banning contraceptives as well as abortion.

and what's wrong with contraceptives? it's not destorying life. sure, it's destorying the potential for life, but two people not having sex is doing that too.

so what you're saying is it's wrong if someone who's hit puberty isn't having sex?

right? cus that's what god wants, lots of babies. so no abortions, no contraceptives, and forced sex.

and as far as abortions being the killing of a human being, that's been brought up, and generally agreed that although a feotus is alive, it is less than human.

[HiddenSmile]

more babies are fine if bush wants to raise them himself, and have them himself.

he's forcing other people to have more babies.

and that post was to illustrate how the arguement of "if you can't use a condom you should have to have the baby" is moot, as bush is leaning towards banning contraceptives as well as abortion.

and what's wrong with contraceptives?  it's not destorying life.  sure, it's destorying the potential for life, but two people not having sex is doing that too. 

so what you're saying is it's wrong if someone who's hit puberty isn't having sex?

right?  cus that's what god wants, lots of babies.  so no abortions, no contraceptives, and forced sex.

and as far as abortions being the killing of a human being, that's been brought up, and generally agreed that although a feotus is alive, it is less than human.

I'm speaking as gotblogforme? (we know eachother) The thing is, Bush realizes what sex is for.... its not just something to throw out and keep yourself safe by using a condom. Nor is it just to make babies. It is a portrayal of love to your spouse, the greatest portrayal of love.... why put a piece of rubber in between that? even if it does have heat-sensitive pads or w/e. And if you are married there are ways to work around having a baby, yet still have sex, without using a condom. The fact that people can't save themselves until they've found someone they really care for and waited for marriage just shows how uncivilized people can be, and the fact that some people do wait is a portrayal of how civilized we can be.

And who said anything about forced sex? If you are raped or anything, put the baby up for adoption, don't just kill it. And if people did wait we wouldn't have as much abuse, and overpopulation is arguable anyway.

Studies have proven that the earliest forms of a fetus have signs of human life: (taken from www.bfl.org)

Five signs of life in the womb:

1. Heartbeat

Modern technology can detect a baby's heartbeat eighteen days after conception.


That is only four days after most women miss a period and begin to suspect they are pregnant.


Most abortions are not performed until the eighth week (56 days) of a pregnancy, or a little later.

2. Brain waves

Six weeks after conception signals from the fetal brain can be detected.


Dream patterns have been discovered around the eighth or ninth week.


Perhaps more advanced technology will someday show us heartbeats and brain waves at even earlier stages in the unborn child's life.
3. Independent movement

At about the sixth week, the baby in the womb can move spontaneously: Kicking, swimming, jumping and stretching.


This is long before the mother will feel any sensations of movement.
4. Senses

A baby in the womb is capable of responding to touch and sound by about the eighth or tenth week.


A child at that age will move away from painful stimuli, the most painful of which would be the abortionist's instrument.
5. Breathing

By about the fourteenth week, a baby's lungs are functioning and he or she will practice breathing.


Vocal cords are formed by the thirteenth week, and were it not for a lack of air, the baby could be heard to cry!
From the very beginning, once a human egg is fertilized by sperm, there exists a new human being. All information about the child's sex, hair color, eye color, and much more is already present from the beginning.


What does an abortion do?

Abortion ends a human life.


Seven weeks from conception, used by permission of Life Issues Institute. 
Some say that an abortion is nothing more than the "termination of a pregnancy;" that what is aborted is only a "blob of tissue" or a "mass of cells." An early abortion will produce what appears to be a "blob of tissue," but what would you expect the shredded remains of a tiny unborn baby to look like?

Most abortions are performed after the eighth week of pregnancy which is beyond the point when the child exhibits many signs of life, but before the time when cartilage has given way to real bone (by the end of the sixth month). Later abortions produce fully recognizable body parts or even whole, fully formed babies. Yet, even pills that cause very early abortions end a human life.

If you are experiencing a problem pregnancy, seek help from someone who will affirm the value of your unborn child's life.

There are alternatives to abortion.

Another article says: Once a human egg is fertilized by sperm, a new human being exists. All information concerning the child's sex, hair color, eye color, and much more is already present from the beginning. (DN friggin A!!!!)

and finally... contraception!!!! You say its the prevention of a pregnancy??? W.R.O.N.G.:Contraception from Rock For Life.org that site will explain it for you<<<

[Spirited Away]

The fact that people can't save themselves until they've found someone they really care for and waited for marriage just shows how uncivilized people can be, and the fact that some people do wait is a portrayal of how civilized we can be.

And who said anything about forced sex? If you are raped or anything, put the baby up for adoption, don't just kill it. And if people did wait we wouldn't have as much abuse, and overpopulation is arguable anyway.

... this has nothing to do with being civilized. the most civilized people will still give in to lust. it's a base desire that not too many people can resist. there are uncivilized people who can resist lust and there are civilized folks who will give in to it. history proves this.

"giving up" the baby sounds so easy until you're put in their shoes. seriously, try being beaten and have your body ripped open by a disgusting demon-faced pig then carrying his seed in your body. maybe you can deal with that just fine, but you know what, not every one is as strong as you. yes, it would take a LOT of strength and determination to carry a child of the one who destroyed you. a lot of women aren't strong in this and it's not their fault. being weak is a disease we all fall to some point in our lives. this happens to even the strongest. it's all about being strong enough to deal.

[sadolakced acid]

that may be what sex is for bush.

but why should he dictate everyone else?

america is a country built on freedom of choices. if i want to have an abortion, i should damn well be able to.

if i want to use a condom, i should damn well be able to.

if i want to have sex with a man, i should damn well be able to.

what you're advocating is the government becoming a sex police, ensuring people don't have sex untill they're married.

how would you like it if liberals advocated that all children be taken away from thier families and put in government boarding schools?

or , if like in china, you were required to only have one child, and after that you had stiff fines and in some cases forced abortions?


please leave that christian conservative propoganda away from the debate.

contraceptives like spermacides and condoms do not allow the creation of a zygote.

contraceptives like coils and day after pills do thier stuff in the first few days, which by your own information is before life.

the heartbeat is present, yes, at 18 days. however, the feotus is only a few cells thick. the "heartbeat" is really a section of vein that contracts. there isn't even a brain stem at this point.

at six weeks, a rudimentary head and limbs have developed, but the feotus is still smaller than a hand. most nerves and neurons are not mylenated, which means the neurons are not connected to anything- they can't feel. mylenation occurs in the 30th week or so.

sure, the feotus will move, but by random firings of neurons attached to muscles, not by consious thought.

and do you know how i know that's propoganda, and contains a lot of wrong facts?

By about the fourteenth week, a baby's lungs are functioning and he or she will practice breathing.


Vocal cords are formed by the thirteenth week, and were it not for a lack of air, the baby could be heard to cry!
From the very beginning, once a human egg is fertilized by sperm, there exists a new human being. All information about the child's sex, hair color, eye color, and much more is already present from the beginning.

the lungs are not funtional untill very very late in the pregnacy. a few days before birth are when lungs become functional. which is whypremature babies are always placedin resperators.

blood does not flow to a feotus's lungs, nor does it flow to a feotus's digestive tract.

a feotus would not be able to cry, for lack of funtional lungs.



what christian conservatives are doing is putting the rights of a feotus, which cannot live without deriving nurishment from it's mother, above that of it's mother, which is supporting the feotus.

and yet again, i will bring up the teratoma argument.

if abortion is killing a human, then why isn't the removal of a teratoma, which has all the parts of a feotus?

[*mipadi*]

And if you are married there are ways to work around having a baby, yet still have sex, without using a condom.

Such as?

[sadolakced acid]

such as having sex with another man!

that's a sure way to have sex and not get pregnant.

[coconutter]

This is the reason bush won the election

The christians which make up most of the south: ABORTION IS MURDER AND JOHN KERRY IS GONNA KILL ALL OF OUR BABIES FOR STEM CELL RESEARCH BUT BUSH WILL SAVE THEM ALL AND MAKE IT ILLEGAL

ABORTION SHOULD BE LEGAL.

OMIGOD. This is like a matter of woman rights. Women should have the right to abort their non-born child. Especially if they're raped, they can't handle a baby, or they have risks of them or their baby dying. How would a kid feel knowing their mom didn't want them and wanted to abort them but it was illegal. It's not right.

[ComradeRed]

No, Bush won because of Ohio, which is not in the South.

[*mipadi*]

No, Bush won because of Ohio, which is not in the South.

Not solely because of Ohio; you can't win an election with just one state, obviously.

[sadolakced acid]

but that wsa the deciding factor.

one car can't colapse a bridge, but there is that one last car that gets onto the bridge that would colapse it.

bush's voter base was the convervative christians. which meant he didn't have to campaign inmuch of the south.

however, i see a change in that, expecially in lousianna.

[coconutter]

Well, in all the churches here, it's VOTE FOR BUSH VOTE FOR BUSH. Their only reason, abortion and homosexuals. Bleh.

[WindSorcerous]

I feel that abortion is something that should not be made illegal. It's my body, and I want complete control over it. If I'm raped, I would want an abortion. No way and I going through pregnancy because of a rotten, evil human being. Especially at a young age! I would fall behind in school. Also, If there are complications and I could have trouble, I might need an abortion to survive, (or if the baby will be born with a disease that would kill it within it's first year). I wouldn't want it to suffer...that would be horrible to let it live then die slowly.

I don't believe the baby is alive during most of the months of pregnancy. Maybe the last two months...but not way in the beginning. If you think I'm wrong, you have no right to disagree because it's my body. My religious beliefs.

I do think though that using it for your only birth control is wrong because that's taking advantage. I feel that people pushing for abortion to be illegal because of their religious views are horrible people. Why? Because what gives them the right to say their religion rules out all the others? It's a horrible gesture, and a selfish one. I'm a woman, and as my rights as a woman I want control over my body, my health, and the babies health. Abortion should be between the woman, her doctor and her religious beliefs, and nobody should tell me otherwise...

Edit: No man should have ANY opinion on abortion unless it is pro choice because no man should ever say what a woman cannot do to HER body. That's just wrong. Why don't you men get raped and have a baby and now you can't go to college? See how you like your life then...I swear, you people say having an abortion is selfish, but it's the opposite. if that's the situation and you don't, you're being selfish because you ruined your life and the babies life. Besides, how will you pay for everything? Think people... My body is my own.

[HiddenSmile]

Such as?

Sorry, I haven't been on for a while, but you can work around the woman's "schedule"

[*disco infiltrator*]

The ovulating time isn't specific. Especially those of us with irregular mensturation cycles. I have no idea if I spelled mensturation right.

[*mipadi*]

Sorry, I haven't been on for a while, but you can work around the woman's "schedule"

Like all methods of birth control, it's only effective if it's done correctly; however, that method is much more prone to error than something like the Pill or condoms. Besides, some Catholics consider the so-called "rhythm method" to be against their religious beliefs, too.

[anniepiee]

i think abortion should be legal.
we get to choose what we want to do with and for our bodies.
if abortion was illegal, i'm sure there will be plenty of girls finding other ways to get rid of the baby. options that might seriously hurt themselves.
I personally think abortion only comes in when 1) you dont have the money to support the baby 2) you're too young 3) rape.

this is to the ones that thinks even if the cause of pregnancy was rape the girl should still keep the baby. I know it's a life too. But when the man forced you into sex, they mentally and physically hurted the girl. (i'm sure everyone has heard about girls going into therapy because of rape) So Why do we have to keep the filthy thing in our bodies for 10 months and support it? In years, whenever you look at the kid you'll think of the rape. i'm sure that will drive you crazy one day.

[ParanoidAndroid]

You know, it's kinda pointless to keep a baby that you can't even support

There are poor children born from rape victims that regret their lives being given around the world.

Why give something life if you know it will all be in vain?

Why give something life IF maybe that child can regret its existence?

What I'm saying is abortion is a decision for women who do not want to be pregnant. Not for us to decide. Seriously, if i was impregnated with a baby i don't want, i'd get an abortion cuz if it's put in an adoption center, it will live a life knowing it was unwanted. And if I do keep it myself can i support it?

Those anti-abortion supporters

Do you want the world to overpopulate itself even more?

Even if it is killing a life, do you think that life will even care so early in its process?

Sure babies really matter when everyday humans kill animals, baby animals, and if you want to talk about humans, people everyday.

Death is something no one can escape. The person who is to give life to an unborn baby is the person's decision. Abortion is not for murdering pleasure but help for people who do not want something they might regret if they do give birth to it

[*mipadi*]

To be honest, abortion isn't something that I consider myself directly concerned with. I support it, but only because I feel a person should be free to do what she wants, as long as it does not harm the life or property of another person (and no, I don't consider aborting a fetus in the first or even second trimester "harming another person"). However, I can certainly understandy kryogenix's point that people should be a bit more careful when having sexual intercourse, rather than just assume that an abortion is an acceptable method of contraception.

However, one major concern is the attempts by the Bush administration to limit access to contraceptives and information about contraceptives, especially among students. Not only does the administration wish to limit abortions, but they wish to limit the availability, or at least knowledge of, methods of preventing pregnancy in the first place. Abstinence-only programs do not work to prevent rates of teen sex, and without a way to protect themselves, it is entirely possible that rates of teen pregnancy could rise under this system. I'd accept stronger limits on abortion if there was easier access to birth control and birth control information than there is now.

[*kryogenix*]

To be honest, abortion isn't something that I consider myself directly concerned with. I support it, but only because I feel a person should be free to do what she wants, as long as it does not harm the life or property of another person (and no, I don't consider aborting a fetus in the first or even second trimester "harming another person"). However, I can certainly understandy kryogenix's point that people should be a bit more careful when having sexual intercourse, rather than just assume that an abortion is an acceptable method of contraception.

However, one major concern is the attempts by the Bush administration to limit access to contraceptives and information about contraceptives, especially among students. Not only does the administration wish to limit abortions, but they wish to limit the availability, or at least knowledge of, methods of preventing pregnancy in the first place. Abstinence-only programs do not work to prevent rates of teen sex, and without a way to protect themselves, it is entirely possible that rates of teen pregnancy could rise under this system. I'd accept stronger limits on abortion if there was easier access to birth control and birth control information than there is now.

Abstinence is a form of birth control that's available for free.

[Mulder]

yes, but abstinence programs arent very successful. if teens are going to have sex, shouldnt they know about how to prevent unwanted pregnancies? then they wouldnt have to resort to abortions.

[*mipadi*]

Abstinence is a form of birth control that's available for free.

Yes, but as I noted, abstinence-only programs do not work. Secondly, abstinence is, well, not that much fun.

If you wish to limit abortion, why not at least inform people of appropriate methods of contraception, and then make those contraceptives easily accessible? That, at least, would help keep rates of unwanted pregnancy in check.

[sadolakced acid]

Abstinence is a form of birth control that's available for free.

abstinence is not more a birth control than abortion or shooting pregnant women.

[*kryogenix*]

abstinence is not more a birth control than abortion or shooting pregnant women.

except abstinence doesn't harm anyone.

[*disco infiltrator*]

You can be married and still not want kids.