Abortion Options

[*Weird addiction*]

There are ways of expressing your opinions, you have to try to convince me to see things your way and not force me...and i'm not like you, i hate reading or doing researche, i say it the way i see/think/feel...i say what i think is right not what the law says...

And yes, i almost always use cuss words when i get annoyed or irritated...

Has anyone justified why Scott Peterson was on trial for two counts of murder (one for killing his wife, one for killing his unborn child)?

Exactly...

[medic]

Has anyone justified why Scott Peterson was on trial for two counts of murder (one for killing his wife, one for killing his unborn child)?

Well does Scott Peterson have a PHD and a license to practice abortion? Did he go through the legal steps to have a abortion? Nope............

This is from the ECE (East Central Europe Abortion Law)
Most countries in the ECE region require that authorized personnel, with the woman's informed consent, carry out the procedure in an approved medical facility.

Along with these requirements aimed at protecting women's health, several countries also impose barriers to accessing abortion. Some countries require that pregnant women undergo counseling and waiting periods before they may obtain legal abortions. Abortion providers may also need to get approval from other doctors or health care professionals before performing abortions. Several countries in the ECE region require parental notification if the individual seeking an abortion is a minor.

In most countries, abortion is permitted after the 12th week when the pregnancy threatens the life or health of the woman, when the pregnancy resulted from a crime, when the fetus is impaired, or for socio-economic reasons. In Russia, an abortion is legal at any point in the pregnancy for medical reasons, and up to 22 weeks for social reasons. In all countries in the ECE region, a woman may obtain a legal abortion at any time should her life or health be threatened. In Poland, abortion is permissible only to protect a woman's physical health, or in cases of rape or fetal impairment.

Exactly...

[sadolakced acid]

(justin- pulse develops on day 21 or so, which is three weeks)

The question is, what is life in an embryo or feotus?

well, first off, certainly an embryo is not alive, it is truely a mass of cells.

but the feotus? well, in roe vs. wade, it was defined as when the feotus can survive outside the womb. This i, and i think everyone will agree too- at this point the feotus is definatly alive, because it can survive outside the womb.

however, when the feotus cannot survive outside the womb, that is what is in question, right?

first, let's look at the foetus. what is it. a blob of cells, no? of course not. it's organized. So, there is a skeleton, so first we have osteocytes. and a heart which is beating, so we have blood, cardiac tissue, and blood vessels. and then we have the brain and nerves- yes, they are there. but the nerves are not fully mylenated yet, so information does not travel quickly on them, if at all. tracts in the brain have begun to develop, but without nerves, is a brain able to feel?

mylenation of the nerves begins around the seventh month. so, we can probably agree that after the 7th month the feotus can feel, and is thus alive, right?

so, let's try for earlier.

still has bone cells, blood cells, cardiac tissue, blood vessels, endometrium, epithelial cells, etc.

in fact, there are some 11 different decernable cells, mostly lined up where they're supposed to be.


enter teratoma. 'the monster'

lance armstrong had testicular cancer. it was a teratoma, and it was removed.

now; look closely at the teratoma:

if forms from ovaries or testes. it is present at birth, but develops later in life.

a teratoma is made up of embryonic stem cells. In many cases, the teratoma is found with up to 11 discernable tissues. the dicernable tissues aren't dividing, and thus aren't cancerous, it's the embryonic stem cells that are dividing.

now; there are, in teratomas, many tissues. there is cardiac tissue. as in a feotus, it is beating. yes, the teratoma has a beating "heart". it's sort of a stretch to call it a heart, as it can't pump blood, but it's stil cardiac tissue, and it's still beating.

a teratoma has bone cells. it has epithelial cells. it has embryonic stem cells, which are also found in feotuses. it has nerve cells. AND these cells, with the excetion of the embryonic stem cells, are not cancerous.

now, a teratoma is an evil twin. it has the same genetic material as the one who carries it. it is an evil, identical twin of sorts.

why is this relavant. this is why

take a teratoma, and place it in a womb, and it will develop into a feotus.

the feotus may not survive if you don't remove the differentiated tissue first (everything but the embryonic stem cells), but you get the point.

so, why is the removal of a feotus, which if moved out of the womb becomes a teratoma, any different from the removal of a teratoma, which when moved into the womb becomes a feotus?

is lance armstrong a murderer?

if you are willing to call a feotus alive, you must be willing to give teratomas equal rights.

so, what is it? are a feotus and teratoma, both of which lack the ability to feel, human? are they alive? they are virtually the same. same cells, etc.

[*CrackedRearView*]

How often does a teratoma threaten to kill its host? 90-100% of the time?

How often does a fetus threaten to kill its host?

[teeners4]

i am against abortion. even if i was raped and got pregnant, i would go through with pregnancy. and put it for adoption, but i'll keep in touch with him/her and hopefully s/he will understand why i did that.

i think the only thing that is an exception though is a major miscarrige or a BIG change of the mother and baby dying cause of some fault.

[sadolakced acid]

How often does a teratoma threaten to kill its host? 90-100% of the time?

How often does a fetus threaten to kill its host?

it doens't threaten to kill the host.

the embryonic stem cells can be removed, and then it will be as benign as a feotus.

alternatley, they may be moved to a womb, which would result in a feotus.

both of which will save the life of the parent without killing the teratoma.

and why is a teratoma a parasite now? and a feotus isn't?

[*disco infiltrator*]

Can those who would rather kill themselves than abort an unliving blob of cells explain to me why that's more justified? If you could prevent your own death, why would you not? I am sure you would not carry a baby for 9 months only to die. That's committing suicide. And you would want your baby to grow up without a mother? "Oh, put it up for adoption!"

First off:

Declining abortion rate
There has been no research showing that women are choosing to abort their children rather than place these children for adoption. Although the adoption rate has remained relatively steady, nationwide abortion rates have continued to decline since 1990.



Also, adoption can have bad effects on children. Not all children are adopted.

Here's many stories from kids who were never adopted or flitted from foster home to foster home:

http://fostersurvivor.netfirms.com/ourstories.shtml

These children's lives are absolutely miserable. Mothers have to live with the guilt that this could be happening to the child they gave up for adoption too.


- Thirteen percent of adopted children of all ages were foreign-born
(258,000), with nearly half of them (48 percent) born in Asia, about
one-third (33 percent) in Latin America and about one-sixth (16 percent)
in Europe.

- Korea was the largest single-country source of foreign-born adopted
children, accounting for about 57,000 or a little more than one-fifth (22
percent) of foreign-born adopted children of all ages.


Yet there are many, many kids not being adopted here, and the number of foreign kids being adopted is still rising. Those numbers were from 2000. I'm not saying we can't adopt foreign kids, but if people want abortion to be outlawed here, perhaps the other alternative should be better.

[Paradox of Life]

Have you ever talked to a mother who has aborted? I have, and seen many. They live with the guilt for the rest of their life. And yes, I do know what a child goes through in adoption. One of my close friends was adopted. He is one of the smartest people I know. He over came the pain, and as he got older, understood why his parents did that. I think he'd much rather have gone through adoption then not be alive. What are you talking about? End it's misery before it starts? I'm sure you'd be thinking alot different if your mother held a gun to your head and said "Oh, I can't afford to feed you anymore. This is better for the both of us."

Wow, reducing a life because "the world is over populated." That's also insane.

Yes, I do know people who have been adpoted and I've seen it on TV (reality TV). Sometimes I wish you weren't such a softie, Brenden, but I shouldn't get personal with this. I know you cringe at the thought of killing, but if it's better for the both of them, then so be it.

If someone lived in the middle of nowhere, had a child because they were raped and didn't have enough space in their house or enough money to support them. Let's go with your option. Face your mistakes; we'll call that Scenario 1.

1) The child lives a normal life for a few months before your money begins to go scarce. Meanwhile, both of you are struggling to survive, but you think it's wrong to kill the child. Later, he gets sick because of malnutrition, but you don't even have enough money to get it to a doctor, so you try to nurse him yourself. He eventually does recover, but during the period of time he was sick, was extremely miserable and maybe even had mental or physical injuries including the thought of his bad past.

Scenario 2 will be if she got an abortion. But is abortion legal or illegal? Let's give you the benefit of the doubt and make it illegal.

2) She has the baby and a gunshot later, it's back to her alone. Maybe a few thoughts would haunt her, but it would be better than making another being suffer and not be able to reverse it.

Now, wouldn't it be better if she just gotten an abortion? And if she couldn't afford it, kill it'd be a reasonable compromise, would it not be? It's basically the same thing..

THE WORLD WILL NOT END, BUT IT SAVES ONE MOTHER A SHITLOAD OF TROUBLE.

Edit//

Should someone make another topic for this? There are quite a few pages/replies...

[*RockizLife*]

Sometimes I wish you weren't such a softie, Brenden, but I shouldn't get personal with this. I know you cringe at the thought of killing, but if it's better for the both of them, then so be it.

LMAO! Yeah, that's why I am signing up for the Marines. So I can go and bless terrorists and prey they don't shoot me.

[Paradox of Life]

LMAO! Yeah, that's why I am signing up for the Marines. So I can go and bless terrorists and prey they don't shoot me. 

Oh, Brenden..

[*mipadi*]

Declining abortion rate
There has been no research showing that women are choosing to abort their children rather than place these children for adoption. Although the adoption rate has remained relatively steady, nationwide abortion rates have continued to decline since 1990.

In a recent news article:
"A new analysis of the most recent abortion data shows that the number of U.S. women having the procedure is continuing its decade-long drop and stands at its lowest level since 1976" [1]

[sadolakced acid]

people should not remove teratomas. sure, they're annoying, but they should have thought of that before they got born, now shouldn't they? yup. i mean, the teratoma could always be transplanted to someone else.

[shortiiex]

i would do abortion..even though its wrong
cause i really don't want to abandon a baby and knowing it's still out there
and ifi am married i would keep it

[Paradox of Life]

i would do abortion..even though its wrong
cause i really don't want to abandon a baby and knowing it's still out there
and ifi am married i would keep it

Explain how it's 'wrong' and what you mean by that.

[sadolakced acid]

seriously, the rights of teratomas cannot be ignored.

evil nasties killing teratomas! you call yourself human!

[*CrackedRearView*]

seriously, the rights of teratomas cannot be ignored. 

evil nasties killing teratomas!  you call yourself human!

You and I both know you're just stretching for valid arguments, which is exactly why I refuse to tell you why there's a difference between aborting a fetus and removing a teratoma.

This is just like your idiotic 'parasite' argument that faded with time.

[sadolakced acid]

You and I both know you're just stretching for valid arguments, which is exactly why I refuse to tell you why there's a difference between aborting a fetus and removing a teratoma.

This is just like your idiotic 'parasite' argument that faded with time.

my claims are no more idiotic than yours.

LANCE ARMSTRONG IS A MURDERER

we must not allow this abomination of murder to happen.

it is a sin! we must stop it!

BOMB HOSPITALS
(you know. like that rudolph pro life guy who killed like... 10 people and injured 100s?)

we must allow teratomas a chance at life!

[medic]

seriously, the rights of teratomas cannot be ignored. 

evil nasties killing teratomas!  you call yourself human!

So what Killing is not human?

[sadolakced acid]

So what Killing is not human?

err... yea? yea. and it justifies the death penalty, because a murderer isn't human so killing them is nothing.

[medic]

err...  yea?  yea.  and it justifies the death penalty, because a murderer isn't human so killing them is nothing.

So if murder is not human then is the electric chair, or chemical injection. That’s just like abortion, your taking a life. Don't get me wrong, with the death penalty you did something, but you don’t have to give them the death penalty. They could sit there lives away in a small 5x10 room for the rest of there lives.

I do support abortion, but I have made my stands in former posts. No reason to repeat myself.

[Joss-eh-lime]

1. read teh topic

2. abortion is not murder unless the baby can survive outside the mother.
the second has been defined by the supreme court.  sure, it's controversial, but it's law. 

and, as far was religious reasons go:  religious morals cannot govern this country.

well a baby not surviving after brith isnt the same as abortion. i just dont believe in it.

[Aestuarium]

Just fricken wear a condom or use pills or something, if you get pregnant, you need to be responsible for the baby.

[Paradox of Life]

Just fricken wear a condom or use pills or something, if you get pregnant, you need to be responsible for the baby.

Ugh, please read the arguments before you.

'be responsible for the baby' in what way? Keep it alive and make ir suffer? What response do you have to that?

[technicolour]

How would it suffer by keeping it alive? It will have a life wont it? Depends on what type of life the idiotic parents want to give it

[sadolakced acid]

is life THAT good?

that you'd rather be alive in a sucky position?