You said there is no innocence on the other post, I'm a little confused.

But lets move on. We choose to sin. How much of that is in our hands? I wonder. If it is human nature to be imperfect, then how do you correct imperfections, which is human nature? It's like our common sense, how do you get rid of your common sense? We all think differently and have different perspective on what morality is and isn't. Lying is a sin, but there are such things as white lies.

Can God not accept this? Not everyone out there means to do evil. There ARE people who DO repent after committing evil by by living the rest of their life helping others.

To sin is a choice, to repent is also a choice, to give second chances is our choice and also God's. He turns away those who do not believe in Him... that's His choice to turn away good people.




Hmmmm, I don't think you quite understand. I can CONFIDENTLY say that I do not believe in the Christian's Heaven and Hell. I do believe in possibilities, but I don't believe in your kind of certainty. That's very interesting that you made such an assumption for everyone else... Just to let you know though, it's very rare that two people will think the same way, let alone everyone (even Christians think differently about how to go about their relationship with God). Trust me when I say: there are people in the world who do not know of the Christian God. It's a big, big world we live in, and Christians do not dominate the world just quite yet.

People choose to deny God because they already found something else that drives them. God should just be happy that His creations are happy, but He's not. He wants people to believe Him, and WILL NOT forgive people who happen to find their own way... Heh. You can say that He's loving and forgiving, and maybe He is... but I'll hold that He isn't all that Christians say He is.

In my opinion, I don't think God's that way. In our belief, we say you go to hell because you can't go to heaven. You simply don't believe in God, therefore, you can't be put in there without getting contradicted with yourself and having your soul blown up or something. (Please don't take that... literally.)

Of course God's not all that Christians say he is, what Christians say is not all God is. It's just a situation that we can't handle in our pitiful little brains.

My idea. Talk at me.

HAHAHAHA.

Here goes:

I don't believe in Heaven or Hell, but then I'll still go to Hell because I don't believe in either? That's great logic! Keep at it, I'll keep mine.

And you say I'm contradicting... hehe oh well, at least, I don't claim to know one truth, thank goodness.



I said it before, and I'll say it again: His title precedes Him . And for the record, I say you can't speak for everyone about "pitiful little brains".

You don't get into heaven by works. It is not God's choice, it is his JUST nature where by he must reward sin with death and good with life.

You correct imperfections with that which is perfect and that is common sense.



The real God has many names and is the inspiration of humans to seek something greater than themselves to follow. And how can you say that you confidently dont believe in the Christian's heaven and hell when you acknowledge that christians have a heaven and hell.

God isn't happy because he knows that his creations are not happy. True happiness can only be found in him. God will forgive anyone for anything they have done against him, but when you are dead and all is revealed and you fall ashamed of your guilt you cannot ask then because he cannot allow the presence of an unclean spirit to be rewarded with life, that would make him imperfect and he is not. We must die with our garments washed in the blood of Jesus. Don't let his torture and death be in vain.

So God is helpless at least in one aspect, which makes Him not "all powerful". His justice turns to injustice when He puts all sins on the same level. Even mortals do not do that because it is unjust. Would you say that the government is just if it puts a man who stole $3.00 from a kid (w/o harming the child) on death roll? Or even condemn someone for life sentence when they accidentally ran over someone in a storm?

There are different kinds of sins.


Perfection means certainty. First, you'd have to be certain of what is perfect. However, perfection, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. Thus, we can safely say that there is no universal perfection.

You perceive God to be perfect, but many people will disagree. And once more, an Atheist's opinion is just as good and true as a Christian's when it comes to belief. (<-- a very logical deduction seeing how we're all "created" equal).




Firstly, seeking something greater doesn't mean seeking the supernatural. It could mean seeking self-fulfillment which is already a life long endeavor.

Secondly, acknowledging is not the same as believing. I acknowledge that it looks like it's going to rain by observing a gray-clouded sky or even the humidity, however, it might not rain at all.

Most importantly, I may acknowledge your opinions but that doesn't mean I believe in them.

I perceive your belief in Heaven and Hell to be an opinion, therefore I acknowledge it, but I will not set my belief to be akin to yours. This makes us unique individuals who believes in freedom to think for ourselves (i.e free will).



So you're saying that belief in something will make you "clean"? If you mean to say that belief in God will purify you because He is the epitomy of good, I can say that other religions say the same about their dieties, and I fully believe in the possibilities of their gods being just as good as the Christian God.

And for the records, I refuse to wash my clothes in the blood of any man, mortal or not.

god is not helpless in one aspect lol so his justice is injustice thats a new one...i thought this thread was dead already guess not lol..u kno that the laws in the u.s come from christian believes from back when the pilgrims or w/e showed up..why do u think we have punishments for killing and so on...yea every1 sin might be the same bcuz a sin is a sin...but god also says you will recieve the right punishment or judgment for what you have commited...wat ur gonna let a thief walk away like its all good...no you are responsible for what you did there for u must be ready 4 what went down...

tell me in other religions...is there a god that made the earth the heavens and all living things....is there a son who made miracles and cured the blind and the deaf and the sick...and is there a book that said so and so was going 2 happen and to this date it is 100% true....so how does there "gods" make them as good as our god not christianitys god our god....im sure the 10 commandments say do not worship other gods or other idols...but thats wat the other religions do....religion is jsut a category...its all about your relationship with god

*sigh*, did you even read why I wrote that God was helpless in one aspect? Do refrain from jumping in the conversation without understand previous response, s'il vous plait.

Anyway, I have no idea what on earth you're talking about. Killing is a duh. I mean how can killing be condone as anything but a bad thing in any contemporary government? Are you insane? Stealing, murder, rape has been viewed as bad since before Christ.

Please don't try to assume to know how my mind works either. It's a very complicated thing, that even I have a hard time sorting out, let alone another person.

No, I would not let a thief get away "like it's all good", for goodness sake, do you think I'm an imbicile? However, I wouldn't send Him to Hell for eternity either. I'm asking that he'll be jailed and tried until it is clear that the theif is indeed a thief, then jail him for the length of time that depends on the worth of the thing that he stole.

I would NOT put a thief for stealing meager trinkets to death. Now that's stupid and CRUEL.

If sin is sin, someone who murders would be just like someone who steals or someone who lies. There's no compassion in putting those things together. The human condition requires a person to lie when they do not want to hurt another or when the lie is for a good cause.

You can be stupid and not lie when someone else's life is on the line, but I rather lie and save that someone's life.

Judgement? Pfft. You don't even know how the laws work and yet you try ask me if I know about the laws. Please. Do you know what burden of proof means? The prosecutor carries the burden of proof. Meaning, the one who accuses the defendant of the crime must prove that he is guilty by providing evidence to the trial. Judgement is funny. God will say only say "you're not Christian, and is guilty of using too much free will. The sentence will be eternity in Hell".

Oh yes, the defendant (me) is guilty of using free will, something that was mentioned before as God's gift to men.... pfft. So I'm bad because I use free will and chose to believe in my own worth rather than on something/someone that might not even exist. Try to tell me how that is justice if you can, though I doubt anyone will ever be able to justify that.



Tell me, does Christianity allow freedom to think for oneself? Does it allow a person to choose their own path of righteousness? Does it actually cure the blind or was that a story from a book? Where is God now when there are STILL many blind people ? PFFFFFT, what was 100 percent true? That there are "four corners of the earth" and that the world is supported by "pillars"? Oh yes, very accurate . That same book was what caused its believers to condemn Galileo, a great man who thought to correct a wrong thinking.

There are religions that are not as selfish as Christianity. Some other religions do not care that its follower worship any God or any gods so long as people do it in an ethicial way. Other religions do not set out to say that they are the right one and MUST be followed.

"The belief that there is only one truth and that oneself is in possession of it seems to me the deepest root of all evil that is in the world."

FIRST OF ALL...

JEWS don't believe that Jesus is God's son...

SECOND OF ALL... (not talking about the quote)

Here are some questions I want to address:

1)Why is there only good and bad?
2)Why would God give you free will when He wants you to love Him? It makes no sense!
3)What does God do with non-believers? I mean, he can't just cast them all in hell.
4)Once you go to either heaven or hell, can you go somewhere else?

I know that Jews don't believe Jesus is God's Son...i didn't say they did...i did however say (i think) that Jews are God's chosen ppl...they believed b4 Jesus came to earth...

Answers
1.) Everything good is made my God...there are things that are neither good nor bad, however they are usually used by God to create good things...does that make sense?
2.) He gives you free will to love Him b/c He wants you to love Him b/c YOU WANT to...not b/c you are FORCED to...if you were born with the automatic mind setting that God is God, and you never doubted and you were just forced to love Him, you wouldnt truly love Him, you wouldn't even know what loving God is b/c you would know no differant...God gives you free will b/c He wants you to love Him as choice, not b/c He makes you...while He COULD make you b/c He has the power, He does not
3.) yes He can, He is God...however, not Jews...we dunno what happens to them...God said something differant will happen to them b/c they followed God b4 God put Jesus on the Earth...however, yes He can cast them to Hell...this is God you're talking about...He is all powerful..."Fear the Lord" He can do ANYTHING
4.) wellll....Satan was in Heaven, as an angel, and then cast to hell b/c he thought he was better than God(and he wasn't)...and when he became the devil he took angels that followed him w/ him to hell...he now finds pleasure in turing you away from God b/c he thinks its fun to turn ppl away from love...but as far as you mean when you die if you go to hell can you get to Heaven...no( i don't think i need to look into this more)...and i guess if you were like Satan n u were in Heaven u wuld be cast to hell...however, if you truly love God u wont so its not even a possible situation...and Christians don't really think abt it too much b/c we know were goin to Heaven

sorry 4 jumping in withouth reading
but so much drama cant we all just along!!

We could get along just fine if people would understand that truths are mere opinions, unsupported "facts", where religion is concern.

1... should there be an "in between bad" or an "inbetween good"? what do you mean there is ONLY good and bad?
2. he WANTS you to love Him, but hes not FORCING you to. hes giving you free will. free will =/= forcing. ;]
3. HE casts then down to hell? no, the non-belivers cast themselves down to hell. most of them know who God is, and the choose not to belive in Him.
4. nope. [well, at least i belive that they dont]


we're not really "fighting" its a debate. cmmon. :]

Explain that please.

Here's how I see it: non-believers chose not to believe because they were given the gift of choice. However, this "gift" is very deceptive. It says you can have a choice to believe or disbelieve, but believe in the wrong thing and you'll be punished for all of eternity. Many non-believers choose to be true to themselves and do what is right with or without religion. God, however, is unforgiving to this kind of attitude since He wants to be loved by everyone.

unforgiving attitude? giving you your whole life to acknowledge and believe in what you have already known since before you can remember isn't forgiving? its not believing in the wrong thing it is choosing to not believe in God. God knew you before you were born and will long after you die. Not only that, you knew him.

The Bible is fact.



Let's say you have kids, you want them to love you, but you can't just force them because if you do its not the same as if they come to love you by themselves. It's like when your parents force your sibling to apologize, it's not the same as if they were to apologize themselves.


NO there is no other path of righteousness, but through God because we are a corrupt people by our nature.



yes and God is not an it, he is a spiritual being. Where is God? God is where the world has pushed him away. Look at the world. We took God out of our schools, Columbine.... teen pregnancy is up..... test scores are down... what more do you need?



no it doesnt. you are saying the ends justifies the means. A dictator who kills innocent children... raping young girls to death... and drilling holes in the heads of young boys and pouring acid into it... impaling their bodies on pikes outside of his home to gain order and make his people obey him so they would not steal from or kill his tax collectors keeping the peace is good?

A sin is a sin to God because they are all equally rebellious against him.

A thousand gallons of good water mixed with only a small vial of poison is still bad water. It is the same as a thousand gallons of poison. and a small vial of water.

Human laws are judged and rated on earth comparing how big a crime is against the government. all sin is equal in size against God.



I don't remember the Bible saying anything about that. Maybe you are making assumptions... It is not about the denomination or the religion you belong to... it is about knowing God. The christian Bible just contains his real identity.



No im not saying that, it takes more than belief. Satan believes with his whole heart in God, but he chose to rebell against him thinking he could be as powerful as God so he started a war against him so he was cast into hell after losing with his army, a third of the angels. You need to know him. Have you actually talked to God? or have you done just as you accuse us as doing by taking things at face value?




An atheists opinion is just made out of ignorance or blatant disregard of their knowledge of his existence. We are all created equal but it's like saying we all start at the beginning of the race or we all start out with the same amount of bullets. It is what we choose to do with them that makes us who we are.




but yet you believe i have opinions. and you believe my opinions are a possibility. you cannot completely disregard my opinions because they may have validity. so you dont not not not believe in them. because to not believe is certainty, can you say for certain that my claims have nothing more than fairy tales to back them up?<--rhetorical.


"Reality is based solely on perception, everyone percieves God, but some choose to ignore him."

So I can say a Christian's opinion is based on blind faith.
Sorry, Im about to leave at school. I might type more in Webdesign 6th period.

[quote=sikdragon,Sep 21 2004, 5:28 AM] unforgiving attitude? giving you your whole life to acknowledge and believe in what you have already known since before you can remember isn't forgiving? its not believing in the wrong thing it is choosing to not believe in God. God knew you before you were born and will long after you die. Not only that, you knew him.

The Bible is fact. [/quote]
What's the difference between believing in the "wrong" thing and not believing in God. According to you, then, there is only ONE thing to believe in... Hehe, what's the point of free will when there is only one thing to believe in? It is moot to give free will when there is ONE thing to "freely" believe in.

The Bible is full of unsupported facts. Lets take this back to the beginning of the whole debate (God I and beginning of God II), where I ask about explainations about certain verses like: "four corners of the earth" and the "pillars" that supported the world.


[quote]Let's say you have kids, you want them to love you, but you can't just force them because if you do its not the same as if they come to love you by themselves. It's like when your parents force your sibling to apologize, it's not the same as if they were to apologize themselves.[/quote]

Pfft. Parents love their children regardless! There are people who cannot support their children and put them up for adoption in infancy. Do you really think that your mother would not love you even if she didn't know about you? You would love your mother, too, if you knew who she was.

In the case with God, everyone would love Him, too, if He give adequate evidence that He exists. Being vague, and then condeming people just because you didn't give enough evidence for your existence is injustice. Would you condemn someone to death if you didn't know the truth about the crime or at least some evidence to prove his guilt? This is just like how I wouldn't say I don't believe in God if He would give more substantial proof of His "power".

[quote]NO there is no other path of righteousness, but through God because we are a corrupt people by our nature.[/quote]

So? There are Christians who are murderers and rapists, and they know God more intimately then I! Are you saying that those murderers and rapists are righteous because they know God?

People are corrupt by nature, but corruption goes hand in hand with virtue. There cannot be one without the other. While you only focus on the bad of the world, why don't you see it more positively? I mean, you believe that God created us all, then why must you look so negatively on our nature, which God had a hand in manipulating. We are corrupt because God allowed it so! He turned a blind eye on Evil so that it will thrive along with Good.

[quote]yes and God is not an it, he is a spiritual being. Where is God? God is where the world has pushed him away. Look at the world. We took God out of our schools, Columbine.... teen pregnancy is up..... test scores are down... what more do you need? [/quote]
God has never been there, may be except at the beginning (<< Deistic view). It would not make sense for Him to exist in the mortal world and let so many people suffer injustices that are out of their hands.

[quote]no it doesnt. you are saying the ends justifies the means. A dictator who kills innocent children... raping young girls to death... and drilling holes in the heads of young boys and pouring acid into it... impaling their bodies on pikes outside of his home to gain order and make his people obey him so they would not steal from or kill his tax collectors keeping the peace is good?[/quote]

Then are you saying that when I lie about a child not being in the room with me while I'm surrounded by murderers and rapists would be a horrible sin? If my intentions are to save this child from what is about to befall on me, then I'm still the one who's evil?

There are exceptions to EVERY problem, even in the case of the end justifying the mean.

[quote]A sin is a sin to God because they are all equally rebellious against him. [/quote]

One who hold ALL power, as God supposedly does, need NOT to worry about rebellion.

[quote]A thousand gallons of good water mixed with only a small vial of poison is still bad water. It is the same as a thousand gallons of poison. and a small vial of water.[/quote]

One vial of poison will NOT poison all the seas. One rotten apple doesn't make the whole tree rotten.

[quote]Human laws are judged and rated on earth comparing how big a crime is against the government. all sin is equal in size against God.[/quote]

Exactly. This means, then there is no justice but ONE controlled by God. But because He is unforgiving, He doesn't forgive those who do not believe in Him.

[quote]I don't remember the Bible saying anything about that. Maybe you are making assumptions... It is not about the denomination or the religion you belong to... it is about knowing God. The christian Bible just contains his real identity.[/quote]

Let me clarify.

Does the Bible not say that to believe will allow one entrance to the "Pearly Gates"? Does the Bible not say that those who goes against God's words will not be allow entrence? To believe in anything else but God (not being Christian) will forces one to go to Hell. To go "against God's words", in the sense of belief, would be to rebel (supposed "free will") will also make one go to Hell.

[quote]No im not saying that, it takes more than belief. Satan believes with his whole heart in God, but he chose to rebell against him thinking he could be as powerful as God so he started a war against him so he was cast into hell after losing with his army, a third of the angels. You need to know him. Have you actually talked to God? or have you done just as you accuse us as doing by taking things at face value?[/quote]

Ah, here's yet another rub. Satan believes fully in God, while many people don't even know God. Satan believes in God because God exists to him. However, proof of God's existence is questionable and even denied to many.

See it from our perspective, now that we understand yours: would you believe in something you doubt?

[quote]An atheists opinion is just made out of ignorance or blatant disregard of their knowledge of his existence. We are all created equal but it's like saying we all start at the beginning of the race or we all start out with the same amount of bullets. It is what we choose to do with them that makes us who we are.[/quote]

The opposition can say that a Christian's opinion is just made out of belief in fantasy and of equal ignorance.

You're absoLUTELY correct!!!!! DING DING DING! It IS what we choose to do with "them" that makes us who we are. You choose to believe in God, and you believe this constitute who you are, I choose to believe in the freedom to live fully and ethically and this constitue who I am. We are who we are and who we choose to be... THIS IS THE TRUE MEANING OF FREE WILL, and THIS is the gift that you say God has granted mankind!


[quote]but yet you believe i have opinions. and you believe my opinions are a possibility. you cannot completely disregard my opinions because they may have validity. so you dont not not not believe in them. because to not believe is certainty, can you say for certain that my claims have nothing more than fairy tales to back them up?<--rhetorical.[/quote]

I believe you have opinions and I believe your opinions are possibilities and may have validity, but this belief carries over to other religions as well, not just yours . I will not absolutely disbelieve in Christianity, but I will not absolutely live by ONLY its "truths" because other religions claim the same.

Being Agnostic allows me the choice to believe what makes sense to me. Fairy tales can be beautiful and ugly, but it has been passed down for generations, just like belief. I can choose to acknowledge fairy tales, but I can also choose to believe that they are nothing more than fantasy and this corresponds to my view on religion.

[quote]"Reality is based solely on perception, everyone percieves God, but some choose to ignore him."[/quote]

Not everyone perceives God because not everyone knows or can be sure of His existence.

people doubt because they choose to. You build it and he will come. for you to freely choose to know God is the greatest gift ever given.


those are metaphors. lol


In the movie a knight's tale the girl asks Will to lose to prove his love. That is what God wants, for us to not rely on ourselves and more than our five senses to know that he exists. and It's only blind faith when you first get to know him. After you've made the first step he will reveal himself to you.



He does to, but he cannot forgive you during judgement. He cannot undo what he has already done and that is making the cut off point at your death.



So you are saying you are scared. you are saying you'd rather stand in the middle until after the war and then choose a side. That sounds like a weasel to me. Go ahead and live your life half-assedly not believing fully in anything.




not all the seas are connected. One rotten apple makes the whole buschel rotten.

God created us innocent and good, but we sinned against him. Evil begats evil. God never turned a blind eye, he looked on in mourning.

Yes, we chose to because God gave us the gift to choose, right? Are we not allowed to make our own choices? My own choices need not to be the same as yours. If God wanted my mind to be like yours then He should have created me that way.




Ah, yes, so much for those same metaphors that caused a man to loose his freedom (hint: Galilleo).



There are those who were Christians, then converted. How do you explain that? I'm sure God revealed Himself to plenty of Christians... why are they still converting? Is it because they're not good Christians?



So He can't forgive? Hhahah... ahem. Yes, this proves that He isn't all powerful and forgiving as you all say.



Ah... touchy touchy. So you're saying that you will jump to one side and fight even though you don't know what you're fighting for? I will not choose a side until I am sure which side is right or just. This is called using your logic.



So the seas that are not connected are better than the other great oceans? This means we weren't created equal.

One rotten apple must be picked before getting into the buschel. If it is rotten then it is thrown out. The whole buschel cannot have ALL rotten apples, yet it is believed to be so and is thrown out. So the good is thrown out along with the bad. How wasteful.

I have never said people back in the day had all the answers.



Because they choose to, it is called free will.




GEEZ, im saying he cannot contradict himself because he chooses not to. Why not get to know him yourself? couldn't hurt.



No, i know what i'm fighting for. You can weigh the pros and cons all you like but it wont make you make up your mind. Do you want black or white? light or dark? there is no gray area.

Back in the days and now... what is the difference? The Church didn't exonerate him until the 1990s. You said those verses were metaphors that mean the Bible is full of metaphors, right? How come people took it so seriously if they were metaphors? These were not ignorant men, they were clergy, well-learned in their faith. They took those verses literally, not metaphorically.


Yup, they're using free will, God's gift, and are going to be punished for it.



How do you get to know Him when I doubt He exists? To simplify things, tell me how to get to know Him. Remember that I come from a family of several faiths, strong faiths (i.e. Catholicism, Buddhism, Christianity, and ancestor worship). I have been to several churches for sermons and I have prayed with my cousin, who's a nun. Tell me other ways because my prayers have gone thus far unanswered.



Really? Weighing pros and cons help people make decisions everyday. You believe there is no gray area, but I believe there is. Just like I can't change your mind on this, you cannot change my mind on this.

\ they took it literally because they had nothing else to go on. We as a people have concluded the world is round and cannot be held up by pillars in the traditional sense. Thus, a metaphor.


Because they CHOOSE punishment over reward.



You are depending on other people. Swallow your pride, humble yourself, and talk to him. Pray in the closet when no one else is around. By pray i don't mean on your knees just asking for things to happen. I mean tell him about yourself and ask him into your life. Ask him to reveal himself to you.




You can change my mind on this, if and only if your argument made more sense to me than mine. How can there be a gray area? Dark is without light, cold is without heat, white is without color, evil is without good. there is no middle, no gray area, how can you believe there is?

Nothing else to go on??? They had the BIBLE, the BIBILE holds FACTS, or so you've said many times before...




They chose God's gift of free will, and if you call that punishment, then I will say that free will IS punishment.




Are you even listening to what I'm saying? I basically said that I did pray many times in so many words. Nothing happened until I took the initiative to solve my own problems. My Dad didn't stay with my Mom because I prayed to God, he stayed because I threaten him to and then they found love again. My family didn't rise out of poverty because we prayed to God, we did it by pure will.




You don't believe in white lies? White lies are gray areas. Dark is without light,but is the light bright enough? Cold is without heat, but is it warm enough? And CORRECTION: white IS COLOR, clear is without color.

If Evil is in men's nature, didn't God created men? If Evil is something that we're born with, then it can be said that we were created to be evil and only by learning to live morally did we know good.

This just occured to me.
Perhaps God himself is not answering all those prayers for clean water and food, but he is making other people do that job for him. Yes, God could have done it himself, being all powerful and such, *but*, going on your idea of self-worth, Fae, maybe he is putting the idea on other people's heads so they can go out and do something themselves, instead of relying only on God and not doing anything aside from that. I mean, yes, God can help you do many things, but you also have to put in your two cents.

Summarizing, God may not do something himself because he wants people to realize that they too can make a difference if they so wish to without only relying on him to do something. He wants to show people that he created man with the ability to change the world if they so choose to.

By the way, Fae, thanks for the quotes. They were very cool.

If it's in our nature to help each other out, i.e. share food/clean water/money, then it would be what I believe in... As in, our experiences in life, somehow, urges us to be good. If you mean to say that God gave us this good nature and we grow to improve it, then I do not disagree because I wouldn't know how to and what part to disagree with... (maybe other Agnostics or Atheists will step in). However, if God created us to be impure/evil (because we'rn born impure/evil), then it's only right that He steps in to help because He loves us.

And by helping, I mean natural occurances... or something that is out of our hands or our control. Our WILL is in our hands, not God's (thus free will), so if He's putting positives ideas in our heads, that wouldn't be free will, would it?

Man makes wars and can stop wars. God made the universe, but the earth is lacking resources (land to grow crops in poorer countries) and is still lacking... How I see this is: God isn't helping.

I don't care for the rich to get richer, or the poor to get rich all of a sudden. I care that at least, the poor have food and water that is EASILY attained, or affordable to them. Their will to be somewhere better than where they're at will improve their lives.



Oh, no problem! I had a great time reading them, too!!!

And SIK
I found something very interesting on-line.

"I have news for you. If you're waiting for God to cure Alzheimer's, then we are going to be waiting a long time."--Jesse Ventura, former Gov of Minnesota.

That's what I mean by "a very long line".