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My feeble attempt at the explanation of Christianity., You ask questions, and I'll try to answer.
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monster
post Nov 5 2007, 09:17 PM
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QUOTE(NoSex @ Nov 5 2007, 08:55 PM) *

My answer to this question is simply, I don't know.

Where as Calvanists believe that there is no absolute free-will, there are others who believe that there is free-will, and that somehow free-will and omniscience can work together. I myself have not come to the conclusion on whether or not I believe that we have free-will or not. I have tried to answer your question with some example or a metaphor of some time, but I realized until I myself decide on whether free will truly exists or not, I will not be able to answer.

Of course, your question rather pertains to different branches and theology within the Christian Community. I think it would be a little different between other branches.

As being nondenominational, I can't tell yet. Hopefully I can answer this question later on down the road, but again, I cannot at this point.
 
*Steven*
post Nov 5 2007, 10:44 PM
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Why does God hate non-republicans?
 
monster
post Nov 5 2007, 10:45 PM
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QUOTE(Steven @ Nov 5 2007, 10:44 PM) *
Why does God hate non-republicans?

Who doesn't?
 
*Steven*
post Nov 5 2007, 10:52 PM
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Black people
 
monster
post Nov 5 2007, 11:52 PM
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QUOTE(Steven @ Nov 5 2007, 10:52 PM) *
Black people

laugh.gif
 
Laughsalot
post Nov 6 2007, 01:32 AM
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ok what's the difference between christianity and catholic again? so what caused humans to "mess up" when first created, so now there's a whole bunch of other religions and non believers? wouldn't that be the fault of the first people created, and we as non believers or people who believe in other religion are just born to carry their sins ?
 
monster
post Nov 6 2007, 06:38 PM
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QUOTE(Laughsalot @ Nov 6 2007, 01:32 AM) *
ok what's the difference between christianity and catholic again? so what caused humans to "mess up" when first created, so now there's a whole bunch of other religions and non believers? wouldn't that be the fault of the first people created, and we as non believers or people who believe in other religion are just born to carry their sins ?


Catholics and Christians are different in the way they carry about things, and the doctrines they believe in.

Here is a detailed description from a Catholic side of view.

http://www.justforcatholics.org/a19.htm

Also, temptation caused us to sin, or to "mess up." And yes, it's the fault of our predecessors, Adam and Eve.

There are two views to this. One is that there was federal imputation, meaning that Adam was a representative for all human kind, so his actions spoke for all. The other view is that it happened seminally. Because we are tied to Adam biologically, sin is passed from one human to another.
 
brooklyneast05
post Nov 6 2007, 06:48 PM
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i don't get why god got so worked up over them sinning and decided to punish us all for thousands of years over it. it's not as if he didn't know what was going to happen, since he's all knowing ya know.

and i really just don't think it's fair to punish everyone, even though none of us had anything to do with what adam and eve did. this is like me wanting to punish all the white kids my age because they might have an ancestor who was a slave owner. that would make no sense, seeing how neither of us had anything to do with what might have happened a long time go between our ancestors.
 
monster
post Nov 6 2007, 07:04 PM
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QUOTE(brooklyneast05 @ Nov 6 2007, 06:48 PM) *
i don't get why god got so worked up over them sinning and decided to punish us all for thousands of years over it. it's not as if he didn't know what was going to happen, since he's all knowing ya know.

and i really just don't think it's fair to punish everyone, even though none of us had anything to do with what adam and eve did. this is like me wanting to punish all the white kids my age because they might have an ancestor who was a slave owner. that would make no sense, seeing how neither of us had anything to do with what might have happened a long time go between our ancestors.

Yes, but again, you don't necessarily have the right to punish anyone.

Seriously, you seem to take the whole punishing thing to another level and equating it with some sadistic thing. God isn't sadistic! Hell was originally created for Satan and his demons. Since God is perfect and holy, he can't be in the presence of sin. Thus, when humans die and the soul is wandering, there are only two places you can be. Hell or Heaven. And if Jesus of Nazareth isn't there to bridge you and God, then you can only go to another place. God doesn't like punishing people, but since he is two-dimensional, he can only do so.
 
brooklyneast05
post Nov 6 2007, 07:11 PM
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if god was really the merciful god he's supposed to be, then i don't see why anyone needs to go burn in hell forever. why can't his faithful followers who "serve" him go spend eternity with him in heaven and the rest of us just cease to exist. just die and that be that, why do they need to suffer eternally. if god is all powerful i don't see what the big deal is with this.

 
monster
post Nov 6 2007, 07:17 PM
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QUOTE(brooklyneast05 @ Nov 6 2007, 07:11 PM) *
if god was really the merciful god he's supposed to be, then i don't see why anyone needs to go burn in hell forever. why can't his faithful followers who "serve" him go spend eternity with him in heaven and the rest of us just cease to exist. just die and that be that, why do they need to suffer eternally. if god is all powerful i don't see what the big deal is with this.


Let me try to explain again.

When a human dies, their soul is to go one of either two places. Heaven or hell. God obviously wants everyone to go to Heaven, but again, he can't be in the presence of sin, so if you don't have Jesus Christ, then there's nothing you can do.

There is nothing else I can explain more on this topic. You might think that God is sadistic. But he's truly not. That's why he sent Jesus to help us all. But if you ignore yourself to God's true calling to you and if you ignore him, then that is your consequence.

Hell is a consequence of you ignoring him. You can enjoy your life now and do whatever you want, and when you die, you can go to hell.

It's vice-versa for us. We are in a complete life of servitude for him, and when we die, we will inherit his kingdom. But of course, it's not about going to heaven. It's about being able to serve a being much greater than us, and that being noticing us.
 
brooklyneast05
post Nov 6 2007, 07:22 PM
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i'd still argue if he's all powerful, this is how he wants it. he wants people to burn, otherwise he would just make it so they cease to exist and didn't get the prize of spending eternity with him in heaven. but i understand there's nothing else to say on this as long as u think god is limited to only two ways to go
 
monster
post Nov 6 2007, 07:57 PM
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QUOTE(brooklyneast05 @ Nov 6 2007, 07:22 PM) *
i'd still argue if he's all powerful, this is how he wants it. he wants people to burn, otherwise he would just make it so they cease to exist and didn't get the prize of spending eternity with him in heaven. but i understand there's nothing else to say on this as long as u think god is limited to only two ways to go

I'm going to use the same analogy as before. I love children, thus I hate abortion. If you love one thing, you're bound to hate the other.
 
brooklyneast05
post Nov 6 2007, 08:05 PM
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QUOTE(Podomaht @ Nov 6 2007, 08:57 PM) *
I'm going to use the same analogy as before. I love children, thus I hate abortion. If you love one thing, you're bound to hate the other.

i mean i get what ur saying on that, but to me it's not realistic. to apply that 100% to something, reality isn't that black and white.

i love kids, and hate abortion.
BUT
i hate abortion as an easy way out for girls who were irresponsible and got pregnant. i don't hate abortion for a woman who was raped and has no control over the fact she's pregnant. for me, just because i love something, doesn't mean i have to hate the other in every single instance possible.
 
NoSex
post Nov 7 2007, 12:40 AM
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QUOTE(Podomaht @ Nov 6 2007, 06:04 PM) *
Since God is perfect and holy, he can't be in the presence of sin.


I thought god was omnipotent? Are you saying he isn't all-powerful?
Wow, Christianity makes so much sense.
 
monster
post Nov 7 2007, 12:44 AM
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QUOTE(NoSex @ Nov 7 2007, 12:40 AM) *
I thought god was omnipotent? Are you saying he isn't all-powerful?
Wow, Christianity makes so much sense.

I did say that God was omnipotent. Being completely perfect means you cannot be in the presence of sin because it's just not possible.

Not because he cowers in sin.

You're just not reading/trying to niggle your way though debating.
 
NoSex
post Nov 7 2007, 12:57 AM
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QUOTE(Podomaht @ Nov 6 2007, 11:44 PM) *
I did say that God was omnipotent. Being completely perfect means you cannot be in the presence of sin because it's just not possible.

Not because he cowers in sin.

You're just not reading/trying to niggle your way though debating.


1. The hell does being in the presence of something affect god's independent and individual perfection?
2. Even if your rebuttal made any sort of sense, why can't the omnibenevolent god choose, in his omnipotence, to place the non-believers and sinners into an entirely new realm - beyond heaven and hell (someplace where no suffering is necessary).
3. How is god just if he infinitely punishes us for finite crimes?
4. If non-belief is a natural result of the tools god gave us (intellect, honesty, and curiosity) and if we follow these tools dispassionately why must god feel such disdain? Aren't these truly the children he should love the most - for, as Ayn Rand put it, it is the atheists, the agnostics, and the free thinkers that have taken god most seriously.
5. Why the f**k do you still believe in fairy tales, how old are you?
 
monster
post Nov 7 2007, 10:26 AM
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QUOTE(NoSex @ Nov 7 2007, 12:57 AM) *
1. The hell does being in the presence of something affect god's independent and individual perfection?
2. Even if your rebuttal made any sort of sense, why can't the omnibenevolent god choose, in his omnipotence, to place the non-believers and sinners into an entirely new realm - beyond heaven and hell (someplace where no suffering is necessary).
3. How is god just if he infinitely punishes us for finite crimes?
4. If non-belief is a natural result of the tools god gave us (intellect, honesty, and curiosity) and if we follow these tools dispassionately why must god feel such disdain? Aren't these truly the children he should love the most - for, as Ayn Rand put it, it is the atheists, the agnostics, and the free thinkers that have taken god most seriously.
5. Why the f**k do you still believe in fairy tales, how old are you?

1. I can't put this more clearly than I have said. If you are perfect, that means that you aren't even in the presence of imperfection.

2. Likewise, if you read the book by H.G. Wells' Time Machine, you can find what happens when there is no suffering. We all become weak, soft, and stupid. We become literally soft. Mankind has known from suffering and pain, and is unfortunately our only real way of learning.

3. We are taught that our God is two-dimensional, meaning that is the only one true just God. He is a loving God and also a just God. He treats all fairly and punishes all fairly. There is no bias. No bribery. No one side.

4. God feels disdain because you are using all the gifts that he's given you in a way that isn't what was meant for you to use.

5. Don't be a c**t.
 
brooklyneast05
post Nov 7 2007, 02:03 PM
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it still seems like ur saying god is limited. he can only send someone to heaven or hell and that's all. i don't understand how an all powerful god would be limited like this. it seems an all powerful god could do what he wanted. so then i'd conclude he wants to send people to hell, because if he didn't want to do that, he would do something else. like i said earlier, just make it so when we non believers die we simply cease to exist. we wouldn't go to hell and suffer eternally for using our god given skills (like NoSex said, logic, reasoning, ect) and we wouldn't go to heaven and be in paradise because we don't deserve that. he still wouldn't have to be in our sinful presence that way.


and i think god is being a bit ridiculous to think he can give us these gifts and we will apply them to everything but him. but this doesn't really matter, because we've already been over the fact that i don't think a god who knows everything can really think, since there would be nothing to think about. a;ksjdf;laskjfasdf
 
Simba
post Nov 7 2007, 10:03 PM
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I guess I feel like throwing out a question. Haven't been around here in a while.

If I love Jesus, does that make me gay?

Just kidding.


What's Christianity's reply to Islam being the "final revision" of God's word (since Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are all supposedly revisions of His word)?
 
*Steven*
post Nov 8 2007, 11:12 AM
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QUOTE(ArjunaCapulong @ Nov 7 2007, 09:03 PM) *
If I love Jesus, does that make me gay?

yes
 
Uronacid
post Nov 8 2007, 04:50 PM
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Why does Hell have to exist?

Why did God create us if he's self sufficient?

How can God know all things, yet give us the choice of love?
 
brooklyneast05
post Nov 8 2007, 04:52 PM
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QUOTE(Uronacid @ Nov 8 2007, 05:50 PM) *
Why does Hell have to exist?

_smile.gif
 
monster
post Nov 8 2007, 05:30 PM
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QUOTE(brooklyneast05 @ Nov 7 2007, 02:03 PM) *
it still seems like ur saying god is limited. he can only send someone to heaven or hell and that's all. i don't understand how an all powerful god would be limited like this. it seems an all powerful god could do what he wanted. so then i'd conclude he wants to send people to hell, because if he didn't want to do that, he would do something else. like i said earlier, just make it so when we non believers die we simply cease to exist. we wouldn't go to hell and suffer eternally for using our god given skills (like NoSex said, logic, reasoning, ect) and we wouldn't go to heaven and be in paradise because we don't deserve that. he still wouldn't have to be in our sinful presence that way.
and i think god is being a bit ridiculous to think he can give us these gifts and we will apply them to everything but him. but this doesn't really matter, because we've already been over the fact that i don't think a god who knows everything can really think, since there would be nothing to think about. a;ksjdf;laskjfasdf

It's true. God doesn't think. He knows.
 
monster
post Nov 8 2007, 05:34 PM
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QUOTE(ArjunaCapulong @ Nov 7 2007, 10:03 PM) *
I guess I feel like throwing out a question. Haven't been around here in a while.

If I love Jesus, does that make me gay?

Just kidding.
What's Christianity's reply to Islam being the "final revision" of God's word (since Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are all supposedly revisions of His word)?

It is said in Timothy 4:1-3 1The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 3They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth.

We believe that any religion other than God's word is known as a way that will only lead to a false idea, and a false life.

Islam is considered by us to be a completely different religion, because it denies the fact that Jesus Christ was the Messiah, and that some other person Mohammed, had last contact with God.

Just the Jesus part alone is enough to make it a completely different religion.
 

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