oh my god hes the guy with big problems about his girlfriend being neurotic and stuff.

I worship the sun.

I follow a faith slightly similar to Christianity mainly because I was raised a Christian up until fifth grade. There are Bible verses, songs, and sermons that will never leave my mind due to the fact that they've been drilled into my head T_T

I believe that there is a God who cares for the world as a whole more, rather than each individual. I also believe that prayer is simply a comfort to those who need it; God can't actually care about you getting an A+ on your paper or getting married with some man. It's your life, but there is a higher being out there. I don't know what he /she / it does, and I don't know why I feel there is something out there.

I also do not believe in the concept of sin and forgiveness. That is complete bullshit that Christians think that God will forever every sin they ask for. There is no forgiving what you've already done; the past is unforgiving.

Then you're an atheist.
Agnosticism doesn't efficiently answer the question I presented you with.
While atheism and theism speak to this matter, agnosticism does not.
Agnosticism is an epistemological position. It says what we can not know, it does not identify what we believe or do not believe. Everyone is either an atheist or a theist, they either believe or they do not believe. And, this is a reality that is inescapable due to the laws of bivalence and the excluded middle.

What I don't think most people realize is that atheism and agnosticism are not mutually exclusive positions.

Agnostic isn't a religion first off. It's an opinion, a state of mind. If you're agnostic you are ATHIEST. Athiest: You don't believe in god. if you think there's a chance but arent convince you don't believe in god. Simple as that. Also why would it matter? It's something you believe in you shouldn't base it off what you're friends want you to do. If you want to continue believing their might be something out there but aren't sure that's YOUR choice. I'm athiest. I don't even believe in the idea of a religion so don't get me wrong I'm not like "Oh wow you don't believe in god blah blah blah". Just letting you know, when it comes to your beliefs and YOUR voice.. don't let your "christian" or "athiest" friends change what you believe. In this world, in society your opinions all you have to rely on. Don't change it for anyone. I know this is long but I'm very opinionated.

Steven Colbert describes Agnostics as Atheists with no balls, and I have to agree with him. I think many of you are still not understanding what the differences are. An Atheist is someone who knows that there is no God. Does this mean that if it's ever proven there is a God, we'd keep saying "No, I still dont believe it." Maybe some, but not all. I know I'd switch if it were ever proven, but Im still an Atheist.

An Agnostic is someone who cant say for sure if there is a God, but believes we didnt just happen by accident. Maybe it was Aliens, maybe it was God, they don't know yet, but they don't rely too much on Scientific explanation.

So grow some balls and stick with your convictions.

A lot of people don't know what irony is either. Funny, huh?



No. That's a far too narrow definition.
An atheist is merely someone who does not believe in god, or lacks a belief in any gods. An atheist does not necessarily have to assert that they know that there is no god.



No. Absolutely not. Agnosticism is an epistemological position - it's a theory of knowledge. Essentially, all agnosticism posits is that the spiritual truths of the universe are outside of man's grasp. We can not know whether there is a god or not. Most agnostics are also atheists and do believe we happened "by accident."

So yeah, pretty much exactly what I said retard. Stop trying to act like your smarter than me, that experiment will end in tears.

Conciseness is nice. You're not smart.

Conciseness is an annoying habit when it requires a fuckhead like you to basically repeat exactly what I said except in a collegiate vocabularly which you more than likely got off some dictionary website you fucking hermit virgin loser douche. I couldnt care less what kind of vocab I use as long as I get my point across. I seriously hate people like you who feel the need to try and surpass others by pretending you're smart even though you basically just repeated what I said. Go slit your wrists, I'm sure all your dead scholarly heroes will all be in the afterlife and you can all have long discussions on the proper term for chronic masturbator. Seriously, I think you'd enjoy that.

What you said was wrong, I corrected you.
Aside from that, I have no idea what the hell you're talking about. Calm down, sweet heart.

Oh man. You guys, please! Your tiny disputes are sort of ruining the debate. Jeremy & Nate, there are SO many ways to handle your problems aside from PMs.

^yeah, but i think this topic being called a debate is pretty debatable.

I'm very upset, because I just typed out a very long response to this topic and somehow it was suddenly gone before I could finish. Here's my second attempt, which will not be nearly as good as the first.

Anyway, I had this discussion once with Nate in CBC. It seems to be a favorite of his, because I remember reading a LJ post he wrote on it a while back. The conversation started with me saying I don't claim to be a Christian because if I did, I would be a hypocrite because I don't exactly follow the Christian beliefs. There are things I do and don't do that a true Christian would not agree with. Also, I was tired of going to church week after week and constantly being told that even if I'd been a good person, I still made god angry because I passed up an opportunity to spread his word to a nonbeliever. The guilt was seriously overwhelming.

Let me just say that my dad was among the biggest examples of a Christian fundamentalist who was a huge hypocrite. He did drugs, he cheated on each of his wives (he was remarried five times), and he stood behind a podium three times a week telling people to live their lives exactly the way he WASN'T living. When my father died, it occurred to me that if god was the way he described him, he had no place in heaven. That thought was something I struggled with for quite some time, but eventually it turned into a question. If this all-powerful god that my dad claimed as his personal lord and savior was as strong as Christians believe, why, then, when we beg god to deliver us from temptation, do so many Christians continue to sin without even giving it a second thought? Small doubts like that pretty much took over my thoughts for a while, and eventually the biggest bomb hit me - if there really is no god, then when we die.. we just die. When I allowed myself to consider that thought, I can honestly say that is the most depressing moment I've experienced in my entire life.

In chat, I said I considered myself a "hopeful agnostic". If I could somehow suddenly believe in god without any doubts or questions, with or without proof, I would immediately jump back on "the straight and narrow path" and reclaim my position as a born-again Christian. However, if I constantly have the guilt in the back of my mind because of the thought that maybe god doesn't really exist, I can't allow myself to live that life. I WANT that life back. I liked going to church, believe it or not. I liked everything about that life, except for the fact that I can't do it if I feel guilty about it. I'm still coming to terms with saying "I'm not a Christian." It still hurts sometimes to say it.

I don't know what I believe right now. If you call me an atheist, that's fine, I have no problem accepting that term and I couldn't care less about the stigma associated with it. And if I do decide to re-embrace my religion, it would be my person decision, not because someone else helped me "see the light".

Side note, I don't trust a lot of Christians. I lose a lot of respect for people who rely on blind faith to tell them how to live their lives and just follow a set of guidelines without a second thought. And those who are halfway smart a lot of times have their own skeletons and are just really good at hiding it.

that's one of the main reasons i dislike religions. the people are just so willing to follow a life "pre-determined"? for them. it's kind of scary.

^I was mostly being rude and disrespectful by adding that. Some people I actually can respect because I know they're intelligent enough to have chosen their own way of life, but they still choose to follow Christianity. They're open-minded enough to see when talking to someone about religion might be appropriate, and when this is absolutely not an "opportunity they need to jump on". They have clear-defined reasons and explanations behind believing what they do, in all areas - religion, politics, moral standards. And above all, they're still able to remain fantastic examples of who a Christian should be. Sometimes I wish I could be like these people.

Others.. I just feel bad for them. They believe in Christianity simply because it's what they were told and they don't even understand why they believe it. Never even thought about it. These are the types of people who argue against abortion simply because "god said it was wrong", will not accept any counter-argument, and are completely incapable of expanding that argument to anything more than that. Same types of people who vote Republican because their pastor told them that a Republican vote is a Christian vote. Those are the religious types I can't stand.

same. i have no respect for these people who have no reason to believe in what they do other than that they happened to be born into it. same goes for people who tell me i'm going to hell because the bible says so, and they don't even know what all the bible says. at least i've come to my position on my own, rather than just what my parents believe

Soooo, do Agnostic people still accept Christmas gifts?




I'm just kidding. I don't have anything good to add to this discussion. I was raised Christian and no one in my family followed the religion, so the people in my family that were/are Sunday Christans don't like me for that reason. I guess I don't really believe in anything.

This is funny.

i'll accept christmas presents any day.



and uh.. that's the same exact story with my family.

my mom and i.. we kinda dont go to church.
and an entire side of the family doesnt like us.


but we manage.

^ I honestly don't care if my family approves of what I believe or not. I'm not trying to make them believe what I do (or don't), and I think they should respect that and not try to make me be something I'm not. Religion doesn't always have to come into play when you discuss things. I have some really religious friends and as they've grown up and experienced the world more they've realized that people don't always like it when everything you talk about goes back to your religion. I don't talk about what I think about religion, because, honestly, I wouldn't want to hear someone bring up what they do and do not believe in. If the subject happens to come up I'll say what I think. I just don't like people who are constantly trying to shove religion down your throat... you like people for who they are not what their religion is. Unless, of course, what the believe majorly affects their personality. But around here, we call those people crazy.

I know you said you're kidding but we actually had a very long debate about this topic, which can be found here:

http://www.createblog.com/forums/index.php...amp;hl=presents

QUOTE(wikiwiki)

Throughout the 20th century, the United States experienced controversy over the nature of Christmas, and its dual status as a religious feast day and a secular holiday of the same name. Some considered the U.S. government's recognition of Christmas as a federal holiday to be a violation of the separation of church and state. This was brought to trial several times, recently including in Lynch v. Donnelly (1984)[27] and Ganulin v. United States (1999).[28] On December 6, 1999, the verdict for Ganulin v. United States (1999) declared that "the establishment of Christmas Day as a legal public holiday does not violate the Establishment Clause because it has a valid secular purpose." This decision was upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court on December 19, 2000. At the same time, many devout Christians objected to what they saw as the vulgarization and cooption of one of their sacred observances by secular commercial society and calls to return to "the true meaning of Christmas" are common.

Quickly addressing that...if you're in the U.S. at least, you should totally accept presents. It's a national holiday, not just religious.