So pretty much I think unions are pieces of shit. What with all the screwing companies over, having their members pay dues at the end of each month, making demands to the company that a similar company without a union would not have to meet, etc etc.

With minimum wage increases, unions instantly jumped all over that and demanded the same amount in the form of a raise for their employees.

Can anyone offer anything positive about a union, other than the "protecting employees from the evil bad guy who is going to lock them in a building with poor escape plans so when something catches on fire hundreds of employees die, companies"?

I can't think of to many good things... I mean, companies get screwed. As log as a company isn't out to screw their employees, I think that screwing the company sucks...

I'll think of something more creative later. XD

So basically companies bottom lines are more important than the families of workers? Union members pay dues, yes. However, they are not a very large percentage of the wages, wages that would be considerably lower if it wasn't for collective bargaining agreements. Unions are also behind the push for safety in the workplaces. Accidents on the jobsite are considerably higher in "right-to-work" states. Unions often subsidize or provide health insurance and generous pension plans for workers, benefits that workers in the same income bracket wouldn't receive if not for pressure applied by collective bargaining agreements. Lest we forget about the 8-hour work day, the 40 hour work week, OSHA, and laws against child labor, all these things definitely "screwed" the companies out of money they could have lined the exectuive board's pockets with.

Can anyone really give me a good reason for right to work laws besides the "more innovative and competitive companies will provide more value to the shareholders and big labor is stealing money from American business leaders, stifiling economic growth and making the children of CEOS sleep on inferior thread-count sheets?"

Capitalism. If you don't like the job, get an education and get a better one. There are identical companies that don't have to deal with unions, and don't get pulled into the workplace drama that unions create.

More later, I'm too tired to think about it.

Agreed, I love the idea of a free market because I'm so much more intelligent than other people. People who hate this idea are either to nice and know someone who's stupid or to stupid and can't keep a job because of their stupidity.

Neither John nor myself are stupid (I don't think so, at least), and we don't like stupid people, so that statement has just been invalidated.

I'm not buying the "get a better education and quit being so dumb" argument. If the idea was that if you want oh say, healthcare and reduced risk of dying on the job then you should be smarter (i.e. you or your parents can afford higher education), then who would build your lovely house with air conditioning and a spacious kitchen? While it's arguable that you could pay grad students very little to build it odds are it won't be built as well if a union carpenter did it. If I don't want to move on to higher education and I feel my contribution to society would be best as a carpenter then why should I then be denied rights afforded to the more educated? It's not a question of me not liking my job, it's how I'm being treated by my employer.

At least with the union I'm in currently, There are several employees who are under 18 who are definately not supposed to be working with alcohol but people under 21 aren't supposed to sell it where I work but because all of the over 21 year olds are working as stand leads, they use 18 year olds. The union is putting up a big stink about it. They also put up a big stink about the newer employees getting more hours than those with senority. Anyways,On a rare occasion, you will find a union that is pretty ok.