Whether you want to face reality or not, many people still have racist tendencies and the media tends to fuel it. Take the african-americans, they are portrayed mostly as ignorant, weed smoking, chain wearing, gun-slinging gangsters. Now, if I were completely prejudice, i wouldnt even hire a guy that reminded me of one of those people if i could get someone else that i didnt consider a risk with more or less the same qualifications. This person that reminded me of the gangster would need to have outstanding qualities for me to put him on the same level as someone else with lesser qualities. Many companies hire thinking stereotypically, and that is where AA came into play, but it does get to be excessive at times.

Im not even a minority and i am for it, but not so much when it comes to academics...although you could argue that some dont have the same educational opportunities as others, but that really does transcend race.

i agree with this quite a bit. although if i had to choose i choose to be against affirmative action, i do think people need to realize that affirmative action isn't just minorities wanting it easier because people in their past suffered. it isn't ridiculous, but it does get over used i think

So a minority who's well dressed, articulates very well, has a good resumé will still remind you of gangster?

There are always the minorities that makes fools out of themselves because they think the world is against them making a bad name for say hard working Blacks or Hispanics that deserve to succeed.

More so than jobs, I see affirmative action coming into play when it comes to schools. They try to meet racial quotas which takes away opportunities from others that are more qualified, simply because they're not a minority.

hm. so what about asians? they were/are discriminated against. japanese imprisonment camps during wwii anybody?

and affirmative action actually works against asians especially in the education system. is it just because asians are deemed "smarter" and the government thinks that they don't need any help?

^Uhhh... Asians have easier times getting into colleges from what I've seen. The school I went to was about 50% asian and they got into ivy league schools and University of Texas @ Austin with lesser scores than whites who applied to the same place. I don't hold anything against the people who got in, just I don't like the ideal.
Asians are considered minorities and have higher acceptance rates.

^agreed

i don't think asians getting into school is a problem in the way that other minorities getting in is, and i don't see how affirmative action works against them as far as school goes really

seriously? from what i've seen, it's easier for white people to get into ivy leagues that asians. it's like, if an asian is ranked #1 nationally in math, it's like "oh cool." but if it's a white person, some tend to think 'HOLY CRAP HOW DID HE/SHE GET SO GOOD?!'

It's like that around your peers, but not with colleges. People always assume Asians are smarter. With Affirmative Action, a college has to have a certain amount of Asians... who in some cases end up taking white students spots, when they are the ones with the better credintials (sp?). Asians are still a minority in this country.

if you're bringing that up, what about us jews?

^ Well, the Jews are under the 'White' category so affirmative action doesn't quite work in their favour.
Although if you're talking about Black / Asian / [insert minority here] Jews, that'd be a completely different case.

Nuh uh. Jews get a separate race, for some odd reason. My friend has it made. He's half white, half Filipino, and he's Jewish.

i've actually never thought of that. good point...i guess it's because the jews weren't heavily discriminated against in the united states? the US fought against the nazis so we supported the jewish.

what i see is this:
if a black (or hispanic) person and an asian person apply for college (only one spot left) with the same credentials - the black (or hispanic) person will get in. agree/disagree?

so what do you people think about affirmative action based on ECONOMIC standards, not racial ones? i'm totally up for that idea.

Jews are considered their own race on a lot of the applications I've seen.

That's a good point. Affirmative action favors different races more or less, I guess.

What do you mean by economic standards?

originally affirmative action was put in place to help blacks get back on their feet, right? because they were mostly poor and were facing heavy racism.

however, now there are cases of wealthy black people getting into colleges over poor white people who may have higher credentials. with affirmative action based on economic standards, the "poorer" people with good, solid scores (but maybe not the best ones) would have better opportunities getting into a good college, whether they are white, black, asian, or hispanic.

Ohhh, I see. I just say get rid of it all together. If they want to focus on something other than grades, focus on extracurricular activity.

I say rise to the occasion so you can actually get your voice heard, if you know things are biased just try harder, whining does nothing for you in the long run.
I had no problem getting into UT Austin...hell, i got into Rice but im doing engineering and i love UT's campus. With the top 10 percent thing they used to have it was pretty easy to get into a decent college in Texas, was it not?

Back to my original point, our minds do funny things when we see people, we automatically put people into catergories....some people hold on the the more loosely than others, but the media has taught us to prejudge people based on appearance and thats where the person's origin can really hinder his opportunities at success

I still don't get why it's still there. It's 2007, most things have changed for the better.
I honestly think that affirmative action is leading / will lead to discrimination against Whites in the U.S.

They got rid of that rule. Also, going to an extremely competitive high school makes it a lot harder to get into the top 10%. I mean when your school is poppin out tons of 1600/2400 SAT's and has some of the top academic/debate teams, it makes it harder for you to stand out.



Haha yeah, reverse discrimination has become an issue. Ironic.

I mentioned that in my post already...note the past-tense verb usage

If its UT you're trying to get into a semi-decent SAT score along with maybe a 15% or so placing will probably get you in.

Plus if you think about it, going to a school like that is definitely a blessing, you are around many people that want to be greater academically. It isnt like you are wasting your time learning things just so you can get into the school of your choice....you could go to a really stupid school (i.e. most HISD schools) and prolly get into the top 3 not having done much to deserve it, or you could go to the school your in right now...maybe join those top academic teams and use your participation to pad your resume.

Motivation is really what it all comes down to. Many valedictorians that i know of had to settle for UT because they were turned down by their first school, and it usually came down to the lack of programs the school offered

Which school did you go to? Also the school I went to (Clements) was ridiculous in it's placing. I know some really smart people who had like 3.8 GPA's but were only 25%. It's not so much a blessing when the majority of the people from your school who apply get cap'd through UTSA. I know some very smart people who got cap'd and then there are people from Dulles High School or Elkins (where it's easy to get top placings) who got in and aren't exactly the sharpest tool in the shed, but they're going to UT and others aren't.

LOL but black people weren't free just because slavery ended in the mid 1800s. All the way up to the 1960s blacks were treated unequally, which means those same people who were discriminated against are still living. If you put that together with all the other races that were discriminated against here in America, black people had it a lot worse.

As far as affirmative action, it just like anything else. It has its pros and cons. Like someone mentioned earlier its good based on the fact that people tend to use prejudice when it comes to hiring, on the other hand its still discrimination against someone else of another background.

And as far as the race and college acceptance thing. We never talk about UT's other acceptance policy now do we? Because everything is focused on race. What about the policy they have where if you finish in the top 10 of your class you're automatically accepted? Now lets say a person went to a far more magnet high school and finished with a 3.9 gpa and finished 12 in his class. But yet someone who went to just a regular school finished with a 3.7 gpa and graduated at number 6 in his class. The guy with the 3.7 gpa gets in. Is this fair?

Of course using race and policies like this is not fair, but I would hope that UT would try to accept more blacks, especially with them having tons of black athletes. What sense does it make to have a team filled with blacks, but no black students in the school except for the athletes?

If they get rid of the minority acceptance policy , then I would expect them to stop accepting minority athletes who don't meet the requirements as well. Do you think they would do that? No because they don't want their athletic program to look bad, because that brings in a lot of money.

I went to Stratford (spring branch isd) and plenty of my friends at UT went to Elkins...heck, even the valedictorian goes to UT as well...and not to sound elitist or anything but in high school a 3.8 isnt very competitive especially with all the bonuses you can get with Ap classes and the like. Many high ranking students dont get into ivy leagues due to not having enough distinguishing things on the side...or you can bypass it all by having a legacy, but i dont even wanna get into that.

Oh don't worry about sounding elitist, I wasn't talkin bout the GPA they got from AP classes. They graded that on a 6.0 scale, but I don't remember really asking them what they had on that.

Regardless, I still dislike affirmative action :)

About Asians and AA.

Minda (comradered) did the research in our previous Affirmative Action thread and I agree that AA is BAD for Asians.

Justin did research, too.

http://www.createblog.com/forums/index.php...st&p=267038

http://www.createblog.com/forums/index.php...st&p=274174

http://www.createblog.com/forums/index.php...st&p=277378


Just FYI.