Don't Ask, Don't Tell, Homosexuals in the Military |
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 Jun 22 2007, 10:47 PM
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#26
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 Senior Member  Group: Member Posts: 2,746 Joined: May 2004 Member No: 17,125  |
QUOTE(hazardous @ Jun 19 2007, 09:59 AM)  who's to say that the gay men are comfortable with the straight men? it's just pure discrimination against individuality. It wouldn't matter, because the entire 'he can potentially be thinking about me naked' scenario doesn't apply to a homosexual about a heterosexual. Straight men may be uncomfortable living with people who openly show that they can be attracted to them. A homosexual man may be uncomfortable with the harsh treatment he may experience, but that would be his own fault for displaying his sexuality publicly. This is not a matter of right and wrong. This is a matter of the lesser evil for everyone. Its that senseless pride in displaying individuality that causes problems, and the military is not a place for it. |
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Jun 29 2007, 02:23 PM
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#27
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Senior Member Group: Member Posts: 88 Joined: Jun 2007 Member No: 534,037 |
QUOTE(ermfermoo @ Jun 22 2007, 11:47 PM) This is not a matter of right and wrong. This is a matter of the lesser evil for everyone. Its that senseless pride in displaying individuality that causes problems, and the military is not a place for it. What do you mean "lesser evil" and "senseless pride"?
Just because someone is openly gay, that doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed to serve their country. And why is the army allowed to discriminate like that anyway?It's bull. |
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| *karmakiller* |
Jul 2 2007, 10:31 PM
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#28
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^ Think of the traditions. The military's been doin' things they way the have for such a long time that things shouldn't be expected to change overnight.
I still don't know why someone would want to be openly gay in the military. If they are they'll take a lot of shit for it, so to me it'd make sense for them to just keep their mouths shut and do their thing. Their job has nothing to do with their sexual orientation... so why should it even be an issue. |
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Jul 2 2007, 10:35 PM
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#29
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 Senior Member Group: Official Member Posts: 6,349 Joined: Aug 2006 Member No: 455,274 |
The don't ask, don't tell... is to save the lives of homosexuals. Because the fact is, homosexuality isn't widely accepted. Many homosexuals have been flogged and killed just because of their sexual preference. So it's not a thing of hatred, it's a thing of savin their health so they can die for a real cause... like the terrorist that don't exist
 P.S. Just to let you know, my friend told me that when he was in boot camp. Instead of racism, it was hatred towards homosexuals. He was tellin me how a few guys were suspecting this kid to be homosexual, and they would say things like, "a good homosexual is a dead homosexual" and taunt the kid. Come to find out, the kid was never gay to begin with, nor bisexual. The kid ballsed (not a real word) up and told them he isn't gay and he proved it when his girlfriend came for the graduation. So homosexuality is definitely not respected in the military, hate to break it to ya. |
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| *ersatz* |
Jul 2 2007, 10:38 PM
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#30
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^ Sure, but don't you think they know that already? If they choose to let people know they're gay (:o being openly gay does not mean you're extremely flamboyant!), then it's really their choice to make. And, shouldn't people be trying to help STOP the violence by encouraging openness and honesty about it and punishing those who are violent?
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Jul 2 2007, 11:27 PM
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#31
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Senior Member Group: Official Member Posts: 6,349 Joined: Aug 2006 Member No: 455,274 |
QUOTE(ersatz @ Jul 2 2007, 11:38 PM) ^ Sure, but don't you think they know that already? If they choose to let people know they're gay (:o being openly gay does not mean you're extremely flamboyant!), then it's really their choice to make. And, shouldn't people be trying to help STOP the violence by encouraging openness and honesty about it and punishing those who are violent? lol you're talkin bout the military. where it's common that men take steroids, have roid rage, who are feining for female ass, and have to deal with a higher ranked person chewing their ass out almost everyday. Do you know how much testosterone is just waitin to explode on any victim? Men are men... most heterosexual men, who claim to be the almighty alpha male either dislike homosexuality or just doesn't care about them. Have you ever watched a boot camp video? They're turned into human killing machines lol What you're askin from humanity, is like askin a lion to be nice and respectful to his prey and to accept them as living beings. Or asking a KKK member to adopt several kids from different religions and ethnic roots... it's just not gonna happen. It sucks and all but it's just not gonna happen, at least not in our life time. |
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| *karmakiller* |
Jul 2 2007, 11:32 PM
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#32
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^
 Sad, but true. |
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Jul 4 2007, 03:09 PM
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#33
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 Jake - The Unholy Trinity / Premiscuous Poeteer. Group: Member Posts: 1,272 Joined: May 2006 Member No: 411,316 |
QUOTE(Arjuna Capulong @ Jun 6 2007, 08:13 PM) Openly gay people are banned from the military. However, you can be "in the closet" and still serve, as long as you don't reveal your sexual orientation. The "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy is often mentioned in these sort of debates. If a soldier's homosexuality does happen to be revealed, however, they are to immediately be discharged. There have been some unfair discharges, however. In one case, one homosexual soldier was harassed with e-mails, and eventually, this anonymous person e-mailed the whole battalion, warning them that there was a homosexual soldier among them. His homosexuality was eventually revealed, and was immediately discharged. His roll in the military was an Arabic translator, which are extremely helpful to have, and not very easy to find. People supporting the discharging of homosexuals testify that they cannot allow such immoral behaviour within the military. They also say that it is detrimental to the military to have such "unique" individuals (where the goal is to have cohesive groups of soldiers that are preferably as closely alike as possible). Discuss, please. Ha, you have alot to learn. First of all, are you in the military? Doubtful. Homosexuality is banned in the military, but like you said, if you keep it on the down low, (Don't ask, don't tell), then you'll be safe. You don't get immediately discharged. There's a process that must be taken and that process usually takes time. People use the excuse of homosexuality to get out of the military. So, they won't kick you out on your word alone. But yes, homosexuality is looked down upon in the military. The military cannot allow people who choose to be individuals in the military, because it's those kind of peolpe who get others killed. The whole point of the military is teamwork. So, really....go experience it before you say something about it. QUOTE(Tamacracker @ Jul 3 2007, 12:27 AM) lol you're talkin bout the military. where it's common that men take steroids, have roid rage, who are feining for female ass, and have to deal with a higher ranked person chewing their ass out almost everyday. They don't take steroids. haha. It's as much, if not, more illegal in the military to take steroids. QUOTE(XRosesXAreXBlackXX @ Jun 29 2007, 03:23 PM) What do you mean "lesser evil" and "senseless pride"? Just because someone is openly gay, that doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed to serve their country. And why is the army allowed to discriminate like that anyway?It's bull. To let you know, there's a variety of groups of people that aren't allowed in the military. It's not just homosexuals. This post has been edited by Arjuna Capulong: Jul 4 2007, 03:18 PM |
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Jul 4 2007, 03:27 PM
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#34
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 Photoartist Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 12,363 Joined: Apr 2006 Member No: 399,390 |
QUOTE(JakeKKing @ Jul 4 2007, 04:09 PM) Ha, you have alot to learn. First of all, are you in the military? Doubtful. Homosexuality is banned in the military, but like you said, if you keep it on the down low, (Don't ask, don't tell), then you'll be safe. You don't get immediately discharged. There's a process that must be taken and that process usually takes time. People use the excuse of homosexuality to get out of the military. So, they won't kick you out on your word alone. But yes, homosexuality is looked down upon in the military. Of course I'm not in the military, and yeah, I know there's a lot of inside info that I don't know about because of that. Partially why I never got real deep into this topic.The military cannot allow people who choose to be individuals in the military, because it's those kind of peolpe who get others killed. The whole point of the military is teamwork. So, really....go experience it before you say something about it. Anyway, I still understand the concept of the sort of teamwork they want in the military, which I've already heard about here and there several times. Ok, so maybe you're not discharged in a snap, but chances are, if someone reports you being gay, and you are gay, I would think you'd be discharged sooner or later (or at least, supposed to have been), regardless of how open you are about it. Oh yeah, I almost forgot all about the homosexuality excuse for leaving the military. |
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Jul 4 2007, 04:58 PM
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#35
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Senior Member Group: Official Member Posts: 6,349 Joined: Aug 2006 Member No: 455,274 |
QUOTE(JakeKKing @ Jul 4 2007, 04:09 PM) They don't take steroids. haha. It's as much, if not, more illegal in the military to take steroids. I think I'd rather listen to and believe the few friends of which are in the NAVY, Marines, and Coast Guard. Once your out of American soil... everything is legal and everything goes, just don't get caught of course. I didn't mean to make it seem as if I was implying about the military feeding steroids to our soldiers, that's just obviously stupid 
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| *ersatz* |
Jul 5 2007, 01:36 PM
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#36
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QUOTE(Tamacracker @ Jul 2 2007, 11:27 PM) lol you're talkin bout the military. where it's common that men take steroids, have roid rage, who are feining for female ass, and have to deal with a higher ranked person chewing their ass out almost everyday. Do you know how much testosterone is just waitin to explode on any victim? Men are men... most heterosexual men, who claim to be the almighty alpha male either dislike homosexuality or just doesn't care about them. Have you ever watched a boot camp video? They're turned into human killing machines lol What you're askin from humanity, is like askin a lion to be nice and respectful to his prey and to accept them as living beings. Or asking a KKK member to adopt several kids from different religions and ethnic roots... it's just not gonna happen. It sucks and all but it's just not gonna happen, at least not in our life time. That's...exactly my point. If we punish such behavior instead of encouraging it, isn't it less likely to happen? Don't we want a decrease in violence against our fellow innocent human beings? |
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Jul 5 2007, 08:53 PM
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#37
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Senior Member Group: Official Member Posts: 6,349 Joined: Aug 2006 Member No: 455,274 |
QUOTE(ersatz @ Jul 5 2007, 02:36 PM) That's...exactly my point. If we punish such behavior instead of encouraging it, isn't it less likely to happen? Don't we want a decrease in violence against our fellow innocent human beings? If we punished them because some heterosexual(s) beat down or killed a homosexual in the military, a lot of the military would be gone. I think it's just easier on the military if they told homosexuals to keep their sexuality out of the military. They do the same about religion as well, no one wants to hear about your religion in the military, especially when it's a melting pot of atheist, and many other religions even satanic ones. So it's not a thing against homosexuals it's a thing of protection... Yeah it wouldn't be so bad if the military simply said, look, homosexuality is allowed, deal with it, anyone who touches them will be dealt severely. But either way, I think people will still break the rules and attack homosexuals. I'm just sayin from my friends tales, it seems like homosexuality is frowned upon. In my opinion of homosexuals, they don't bother me non... but I'd prefer for them to keep it to themselves, don't make it flamboyantly obvious. |
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Jul 5 2007, 10:46 PM
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#38
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 AttacKATTack! Group: Member Posts: 697 Joined: Jun 2007 Member No: 536,660 |
Immoral? Kicking people out of the military for who they are is immoral. They're willing to go through years of training and dedication to their country and we're denying them that right? That's ridiculous! Especially discharging someone who's a valuable asset. If anything, it's creating weaknesses and empty holes in the US military.
QUOTE(kimmytree @ Jun 6 2007, 07:53 PM) Not being able to be gay in the military is total bull. If a person wants to serve their country, then why should their sexuality matter? Having gay men and straight men around each other is no different than having men and women serving aside each other - something that is allowed. Who says its immoral... The Bible??? Sheesh, what ever happened to separation of church and state? Exactly. I don't think it could've been put in a better way. QUOTE lol you're talkin bout the military. where it's common that men take steroids, have roid rage, who are feining for female ass, and have to deal with a higher ranked person chewing their ass out almost everyday. Do you know how much testosterone is just waitin to explode on any victim? Men are men... most heterosexual men, who claim to be the almighty alpha male either dislike homosexuality or just doesn't care about them. Have you ever watched a boot camp video? They're turned into human killing machines lol What you're askin from humanity, is like askin a lion to be nice and respectful to his prey and to accept them as living beings. Or asking a KKK member to adopt several kids from different religions and ethnic roots... it's just not gonna happen. It sucks and all but it's just not gonna happen, at least not in our life time. If you sign up for the military and make it through boot camp, chances are you'll learn self-restraint and you'll learn the consequences of your actions (because pretty much you're treated like a dog that must be obedient or else). Taking the risk of being possibly put on the battlefield is something that takes more than a minute to decide. I'm sure that anyone applying for the military are aware of the consequences of acting inappropriately. Soldiers know their duty. That's why they're in the armed forces. As for being "different": - minority races are allowed - women are allowed - people from the ages 17-45 are allowed (that's a big difference) Gays can shave their heads, do pushups and follow the rules just as well as straights, but there's no reason to tell people you're gay, really.  DON'T ASK, DON'T TELL FTW! |
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Jul 6 2007, 05:44 AM
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#39
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Senior Member Group: Official Member Posts: 6,349 Joined: Aug 2006 Member No: 455,274 |
QUOTE(xKatt @ Jul 5 2007, 11:46 PM) If you sign up for the military and make it through boot camp, chances are you'll learn self-restraint and you'll learn the consequences of your actions (because pretty much you're treated like a dog that must be obedient or else). Taking the risk of being possibly put on the battlefield is something that takes more than a minute to decide. I'm sure that anyone applying for the military are aware of the consequences of acting inappropriately. Soldiers know their duty. That's why they're in the armed forces. True this is fully understandable. Homosexuality is just a sexual preference, nothing more nothing less. The problem is, most of the world isn't opened to homosexuality. They frown upon it, find it immoral, find it against Natures Law (which technically holds water in an argument), and find it disgustingly wrong (envisioning two men most of the time lol). You really can't force someone to change their opinion, it's up to them to change it. It's like religious people trying to force an atheist to convert to religion or to accept God as fact. It's not just religion that frowns upon it, so religion shouldn't be the only one who gets fingered for being at fault. It's all psychological especially from experience of some sort. But over-all I fully agree with this quote. QUOTE As for being "different": - minority races are allowed - women are allowed - people from the ages 17-45 are allowed (that's a big difference) Gays can shave their heads, do pushups and follow the rules just as well as straights But guess what? There's one thing that all these categories have in common. No matter who or what they are, generally they all agree that they dislike homosexuality. Of course not ALL agree, but generally agree. QUOTE But there's no reason to tell people you're gay, really. DON'T ASK, DON'T TELL FTW! Exactly. |
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| *Flair* |
Jul 6 2007, 08:52 AM
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I am not for open homesexuals in the military. Isn't there enough hatred and discrimination already? Besides, why would someone want to be ridiculed, insulted and whatnot? I'm not saying that homosexuals should lie, just keep quiet. Don't ask, don't tell. Simple.
Honestly, shutting up might save the person's life. Like many people stated, homosexuality isn't accepted world wide yet. Saying you're gay is attracting discrimination to yourself. Besides, why say you're gay? If I should join the military, I wouldn't scream 'hey, I'm straight' or 'hey, I'm bisexual'. Absolutely unnecessary. |
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| *ersatz* |
Jul 6 2007, 10:55 AM
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But something like this would HELP it be accepted. If people want to be in the military, they should be prepared to deal with people having different sexual orientations. If you can kill people without thinking about it, it should not be a problem at all to just ignore a gay person if you don't think it's right. You have to do it in civilian life, don't you? Why should it be different in the military?
I mean, I don't think any person would go around just shouting that they're gay for no reason. No one's going to do that. But there's some cases in which you can kind of tell and I don't think anyone should suppress their natural personalities. |
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Jul 6 2007, 03:22 PM
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#42
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AttacKATTack! Group: Member Posts: 697 Joined: Jun 2007 Member No: 536,660 |
QUOTE(Tamacracker @ Jul 6 2007, 05:44 AM) True this is fully understandable. Homosexuality is just a sexual preference, nothing more nothing less. The problem is, most of the world isn't opened to homosexuality. They frown upon it, find it immoral, find it against Natures Law (which technically holds water in an argument), and find it disgustingly wrong (envisioning two men most of the time lol). You really can't force someone to change their opinion, it's up to them to change it. It's like religious people trying to force an atheist to convert to religion or to accept God as fact. It's not just religion that frowns upon it, so religion shouldn't be the only one who gets fingered for being at fault. It's all psychological especially from experience of some sort. But over-all I fully agree with this quote. But guess what? There's one thing that all these categories have in common. No matter who or what they are, generally they all agree that they dislike homosexuality. Of course not ALL agree, but generally agree. Exactly. Ahhh. I guess you're right. Like Sandra said, I don't support openly homosexual people in the military, but just the fact that a secret gets leaked to the authorities that one anonymous person could be gay turns into the dischargement of an innocent man in the military, serving his country. It's not just that though; it's the fact that it took investigation to find out who it was. If he's not ostentatiously gay, showing any signs of nonconformity and is just as uniform as his peers, what was the purpose of expelling him? |
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Jul 6 2007, 03:40 PM
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#43
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Senior Member Group: Official Member Posts: 6,349 Joined: Aug 2006 Member No: 455,274 |
QUOTE(ersatz @ Jul 6 2007, 11:55 AM) But something like this would HELP it be accepted. If people want to be in the military, they should be prepared to deal with people having different sexual orientations. If you can kill people without thinking about it, it should not be a problem at all to just ignore a gay person if you don't think it's right. You have to do it in civilian life, don't you? Why should it be different in the military? I mean, I don't think any person would go around just shouting that they're gay for no reason. No one's going to do that. But there's some cases in which you can kind of tell and I don't think anyone should suppress their natural personalities. I don't know what else I can say/explain for you to understand, not that I'm tryin to change your mind but it's just better off kept quiet in my opinion. It wouldn't be as easy as you say, honestly it wouldn't. But nothing's wrong with wishful thinkin, I guess. 
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| *Flair* |
Jul 6 2007, 03:42 PM
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#44
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Ersatz, I'm not sure if it would help. Homosexuality is still a taboo in some parts of the world especially in the military. There are still narrow-minded people, there are people that will make life hell for the homosexual fellow. Why sacrifice yourself when you know it's going to make little or no change?
I see your point, but it's a lost cause. Sadly, people in the military aren't prepared yet for that. There's too much to lose. Besides, it is absolutely not needed broadcasting your sexuality to hundreds of people. |
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| *ersatz* |
Jul 7 2007, 12:50 AM
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Like I said, I don't think anyone's going to be "broadcasting"...people don't really do that anyway. It's unlikely that someone extremely flamboyant would even be in the military so there's no need to worry about that. But like, sometimes people figure it out anyway even if the person hasn't said anything...and then they get beat up, and no one gets punished. And it's just let go because some people don't agree with homosexuality? How is that fair?
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Jul 8 2007, 02:26 PM
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#46
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Jake - The Unholy Trinity / Premiscuous Poeteer. Group: Member Posts: 1,272 Joined: May 2006 Member No: 411,316 |
QUOTE(Tamacracker @ Jul 5 2007, 09:53 PM) If we punished them because some heterosexual(s) beat down or killed a homosexual in the military, a lot of the military would be gone. I think it's just easier on the military if they told homosexuals to keep their sexuality out of the military. They do the same about religion as well, no one wants to hear about your religion in the military, especially when it's a melting pot of atheist, and many other religions even satanic ones. So it's not a thing against homosexuals it's a thing of protection... Yeah it wouldn't be so bad if the military simply said, look, homosexuality is allowed, deal with it, anyone who touches them will be dealt severely. But either way, I think people will still break the rules and attack homosexuals. I'm just sayin from my friends tales, it seems like homosexuality is frowned upon. In my opinion of homosexuals, they don't bother me non... but I'd prefer for them to keep it to themselves, don't make it flamboyantly obvious. Yo, you're wrong. There's no people more religious than those in the military. Haha. Yo, we went to church as much as we could. You find it to be a big relief and it helps with the stress. Also, there are so many different religions in the military it's not even funny. So, religion is a big part of the military. |
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Jul 8 2007, 07:15 PM
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#47
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 Kimberly Group: Member Posts: 1,961 Joined: Apr 2005 Member No: 121,599 |
QUOTE(JakeKKing @ Jul 8 2007, 03:26 PM) Yo, you're wrong. There's no people more religious than those in the military. Haha. Yo, we went to church as much as we could. You find it to be a big relief and it helps with the stress. Also, there are so many different religions in the military it's not even funny. So, religion is a big part of the military. That's very true. I know a couple of guys that signed up for the military the second they turned 18... and they're all the type that you see in church every Sunday. Now hopefully this isnt stupid of me to say, and I dont mean to offend anyone by this - but it seems like alot of kids you see signing up for the military straight out of high school all seem to be alot alike. All the guys that I personally know are more religious, lower middle class, and not exactly bright. It just seems like most of the young guys you see inlisting seem to be alot alike in that sense.  It seems like it's never the smarter kids that you see inlisting... I guess because they know college is in there future. And then the ones that arent as intelligent arent always fit for a higher education. It's almost like they're the ones joining the military, since college isnt really an option for them. ^ Hopefully I havent offended anyone by any of that, because there are definitely people who are in the military who arent like that at all. |
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Jul 10 2007, 03:02 PM
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#48
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Senior Member Group: Official Member Posts: 6,349 Joined: Aug 2006 Member No: 455,274 |
QUOTE(JakeKKing @ Jul 8 2007, 03:26 PM) Yo, you're wrong. There's no people more religious than those in the military. Haha. Yo, we went to church as much as we could. You find it to be a big relief and it helps with the stress. Also, there are so many different religions in the military it's not even funny. So, religion is a big part of the military. I don't know what was the point of your argument. All I said was that religion shouldn't be the only one blamed for the disliking of homosexuals.. HAHA. Or whatever. |
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Jul 11 2007, 12:17 PM
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#49
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 Naomi loves you. Y'all may call me NaNa Group: Official Designer Posts: 2,925 Joined: Jun 2006 Member No: 427,774 |
I think it's silly. A Man sexual preference do not determine a his strength to serve in the military. You cannot look at someone and assume they're gay. Gays are people too and they shouldn't be mistreated because of it. I may not agree with the act but I will NOT mistreat you for it. This very reason is why I don't like some Christians. Christains tell you to treat other the way you like to be treated and some don't take their own advice.
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| *steve330* |
Jul 11 2007, 02:43 PM
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#50
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QUOTE(1angel3 @ Jul 11 2007, 12:17 PM) You cannot look at someone and assume they're gay. yes you can |
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