So there's been an issue with men being paid more than women when it comes to jobs.

Say a girl and a boy around the same age worked at the same store (and were paid equally). Now say they went on a date. Chances are, the girl wouldn't spend a dime and the boy would be spending all of his hard-earned money. The girl would only end up spending her paycheck on herself. The point? Men have more needs for money than women do. Men fundamentally have a need to spend more money than women do.

Generally, men are paid more than women for the same jobs because, well, men have more demands for money than women do. Men want paying jobs. Women want glamorous jobs. Women never seem to demand that half of sewage workers or half of window cleaners are female.


And I'm just going to put it out there now, I don't follow any of the above, but I'm willing to debate with you anyway.

With the date thing, you have a point.
But hey, that's not always the case. If they weren't dating, the women would still argue the fact that they're not making as much $ and may not be living their lives as decent, especially if they're single moms or something along those lines.

Could you be specific?

Really now, maybe it's just me, but I believe that in dating, more and more people are splitting the bill. I personally would split the bill. Having the guy pay for everything is such a chauvinistic thing to do. And could you expand on how:

Men always paying for everything on dates is a little old fashioned. More and more people these days split things.

What about single mothers? Are they just sol, since they're female?

women take their kids everywhere. therefore, needing money for fuel.
women buy groceries. therefore, needing money for food.
women buy their clothes, their husband's clothes, and their kids clothes, therefore needing money for clothing.
women get to go home to a messy house and have a ton of chores to do like unloading the dishwasher, washing/drying clothes, folding clothes, paperwork, vacuming, cleaning in general, therefore needing more time.
women have way more needs for money than men. men usually just go out and spend their money on boats, trucks, ect. that they don't need. not to mention, they want the woman to look pretty all the time, which is just too hard for her with trying to make him happy and do all the things listed above with the short ammount of time given in a day and not getting paid what she's worth. it's ridiculous.

... and women spend a lot of money on cosmetic, fashions, and etc.

I always pay for myself when I go out with a guy. Hell, I actually pay for the both of us more often than he does.

And as stated before, women do much of the shopping for their husbands, kids, & selves.

Why the eff should two people be paid differently for doing the exact same thing? What does it matter if they're male or female?

Traditionally, men are the ones out working for the money while women are at home caring for the house and children.And that's where the money goes.

Winner.

Ok, you guys got that one. There's not too much else for me to say without sounding like a male supremest extremist.

New Question: Male =/= Female
So why are people trying to make them equal?

how are they not equal?
i actually think women are more deserving than men are.
most men do work hard jobs, but that's because their bodies are made to.
most women work hard jobs as well, it's just doesn't deal with as much physical work as the jobs men have.
men complain about their jobs, nontheles. even if they did have an easy job, they'd complain. what makes men so much more valuble than women. nothing at all. they're both valuble to society. without women, there'd be no new people in the world, therefore the population would die out. the same applies for men. without men, there'd be no way to reproduce fertile offspring.that means that even though they were designed to complete different tasks, they were both created equaly and should be treated as such. they're both a big part of reproduction and the world in general.

Be careful, that's not what your Bible says.

1) Physically
2) Mentally
3) It appears you answered your own question.

Fact: Women are better optimized for nurturing a child than a man.
Fact: The male body is better optimized for physical work than a female's.
Thus, they are not equal.

Why do you think there's the NBA, and then the WNBA; PGA, and then LPGA?

Oh, it appears there's a double standard as well. How come it's easier for a woman to attack the system and be allowed to play for the male's league than it is for a man to get into the woman's league?

^ You're right, both genders have their strengths and weaknesses, but overall, one is no better than the other. Both deserve the same rights, and same pay.

I forgot to address this earlier. Women are simply offered a salary (which tends to be lower than if it were a male), and well, they accept it and take the job. It isn't the corporation's problem if the woman is going to accept a lower salary. In fact, that's less money they have to give away.

You know I tell you what women belong in the kitchen and don't deserve the same pay as men.

They're good for vagina and food.

That's it. MEN NUMBER 1!

wtf?

i'm sorry. i know it's a debate but i'm seriously pissed off.

women buy cosmetics. clothes. shoes. etc.

men freaking buy game consoles. media centers. flat screen tvs.

why is it only exclusive to women who buy useless/fun/desired thing?

you know why they should be paid the same? because women have to do the same thing to get to the same place. a women doctor still has to go to medical school, depending on their field, deal with sexism from their colleagues. a women engineer still has to go to school. a women lawyer still has to go to law school.

men AND women have to pay for bills. rent. student loans. mortages.

most women offer to pay but men feel the freaking macho duty to pay for the dinner. if i earned the 100K a year like i'm suppose to when i become a doctor, why wouldn't i pay 50 bucks for my own dinner?

QUOTE

I forgot to address this earlier. Women are simply offered a salary (which tends to be lower than if it were a male), and well, they accept it and take the job. It isn't the corporation's problem if the woman is going to accept a lower salary. In fact, that's less money they have to give away.

obviously that's wrong too. and no. that's only half true. but once the women start doing their job and realize the salary differences, they will address it. but guess what? they won't get it.

married women get paid less than a married man. a married woman with kids earns less than a married man with kids.

if you have a problem with forking over money for dates, then don't ask a girl out. or pick a good, normal girl who would offer to pay. don't you dare say just because men pay for dates, women shouldn't get the same salary. if i go to medical school for nearly 10 years, i should get the same damn pay.

This discussion has too many exceptions. Both women and men have different demands for money, not to mention the various types of women and men.



Although I agree with your argument that men usually pay for the dates (exceptions noted), I completely disagree with this. In fact, I think it's bull shit. You call sitting in your nice, cube office with a computer and music playing not glamorous... while wiping shit from a pissing, crying, stinking, baby is? You think that mopping the floors is seriously more desirable than taking care of multiple screaming, demanding, loud, smelly children?

Yet, there will always be exceptions. Men who take care of their kids. Feminists who demand their way.
Which makes this discussion very difficult to debate.

Arjuna just wants to sound smart. The actual topic he posted here is hardly debatable. Be Pacific, not Atlantic.

Uh-oh.

Caring for your child isn't usually regarded as an actual career.

It's not always what you decide to do as a career, but how well you do it. And to be fair, this factor doesn't effect just women, but even male to male. In the case of the PGA tour, all of the males are playing golf, but obviously, some are playing better than others. Which is why Tiger Woods gets more money from playing golf than many other players.

So, I'm sure we can agree now that men are generally physically more apt than women, simply by looking at the athletic world.
Now I propose, men are smarter than women.

this debate isn't about religion so back off. you don't even know much about "my Bible".
and since you want to sound so educated, please show me the verses that say otherwise.

While I would prefer that this discussion not get too much into religion, I would say mentions of sexual equality (or sexual inequality) in religious scripture would be worth mentioning.

correct, but as far as the Bible goes, i'd say only scriptures in the new testament would be worth listing. in the old testament, everything was different.

So, only things from the New Testament should be noted while the rest of the Bible can be disregarded?

(If you decide to reply, I prefer that you reply in the bible...fairytales? thread.)

Eeeek, sorry Arjuna. I'll respond there then.

[edited]

Actually, a man would probably pay for the first date, maybe the second or even third. But after that, what normal human beings would do is split the bill, unless the guy is a LOT LOT LOT wealthier than the girl.

That aside. Guys have more needs for money? Don't think so. We, women, also have needs - equal or maybe even exceeding the needs of a typical man.

I'll be stereotypical here, but for instance:

- a single mom that has to take care of her child would logically need more money than a single guy, most times.

- money for make up, hair products (some women spend a fortune on these), shaving/waxing equipment, pads/tampons, birth control (pills that we take, etc), clothes (although this goes for both sexes, but most women "need" more shopping there), accessoires (jewelry mostly), perfumes/body lotions/moisturizers/tanning moisturizers, and I can't think of anymore examples. But I'm sure there's more.

- some women don't date.

- what about arranged marriages? The expenses which you mentioned wouldn't be in there, I guess. Could be wrong.

- lesbians. No guys there to pay for the date.

So why should we get paid less?

QUOTE

Now I propose, men are smarter than women.

Any proof on that? Some statistics? Why should I believe that?