I kind of skimmed through the posts, so sorry if someone said this already:

I think what she means that she believes Jesus was a real person, just not the son of God. I'd have to see what she said exactly, but she could be saying that he was just a good person and that he inspired a lot of people to do good things, plus that he was still crucified by the Roman and Pilate and stuff like that.

Quite a few Jews believe this. You could either believe in God or not believe in God and still take this view.

To the post above:

Funny, we just recently talked about this in Confirmation class (I'm Jewish).

Back during biblical times, there was only one form of Judaism, what today we call "Orthodox." Except, back then, they didn't call it that because, well, they didn't need to since there weren't any other sects yet. In the 20th Century, a group of Jews decided to reform the Jewish ideas and laws (hence "Reform Judaism") in order to apply Judaism to the modernisms of today. Then followed Conservative Judaism, which agreed that there needed to be some changes, yet still some preservation of the old ways. So the Jews who decided to not change and felt that they needed to keep the traditional ways were called "Orthodox."

So "secular Jews" and the different sects weren't even around until the 20th Century.

Oh, you mean historical Christian figures?
I don't doubt that he wasn't a real person. I just don't believe the whole "son of God" business, nor do I believe in a Christian God.

???

eh. you answered my question.


well, i was starting to think she was jewish after hearing her arguments, but she said that she didn't have a religion. maybe she was just going for that whole "i'm an atheist emo kid" fad.

no, i mean all historical figures throughout history.
and i'm in no way trying to be rude, but when did this board come about your sole belifs?

Well, God established a covenant with them.

God's coventants are found in the Torah (Jewish Old Testament), and say that the Israelites are His chosen people. Jews are Israelites. I'm pretty sure not all Jews believe they are automatically saved, but some do. It just depends on the denomination.

This topic is incredibly offensive and I think we shouldn't be dealing with this controversy.

Just because I'm putting out my beliefs doesn't mean that this thread is solely about them. Like James (kyrogenix) has said, this topic is offensive, and I find it so. I feel that you're trying to convert all of us to Christianity. I used to be Christian and went to a Christian school for 8 years. I know what the Bible teaches so don't try to pull shit on me. Just because some of us here don't believe in God doesn't mean that you have to go all Bible-thumping on us and try to prove whatever argument we have wrong.

please, keep this to one of your many threads.


and please, let's remember that we all have different opinions. What the bible teaches is different for each of us, and if you find someone else's opinion offensive, then don't post in this topic.

Well, she was the one who attacked me for posting on this thread that I don't believe in a Christian God. How am I not supposed to feel offended by that?

Alright then, I'll keep this in mind for later.

you only find it offensive because i don't agree with you.
i'm not trying to force my belifs on you. it's called a debate. look it up.
and i wasn't attacking you. i don't understand your reasoning. when did i say anything about "posting on this thread that I don't believe in a Christian God"? i was just pointing out that the entire point of the board wasn't about your beliefs as an individual, yet you were trying to make it out as so. seriously. some people get "offended" too easily when people don't agree with them.

I don't care if you're a Christian. I was only offended because you tried to make it seem like I was saying that this whole thread had to do with me. Just because I point my beliefs out doesn't mean that. It's like me telling you that you're making this thread all about you because you're Christian. Big f**king deal.

What exactly are you confused about?




As for the "atheist emo kid fad" comment, I really hope that people are not becoming atheist to be cool. I happen to be an atheist as well, so that just makes me frown.

Debate! Where!?

Good luck with trying to prove a man came back from the dead 2,000 years ago. Come on, don't shift the burden of proof on us; nothing impressive about it.

oh, and so stating my beliefs makes me direct the entire thread so that it was about me is it? So all the opinions I have posted on this thread have also directed the whole thread so that it revolves around me? Posting a news link to the International Herald Tribune also makes it about me. Seriously wtf. You're the one here who wants everyone to give evidence to the stories in the Bible as being "fairytales". And then, instead of actually debating, you just try to revoke every argument by Bible-thumping. I feel that this thread is more of you just trying to convert us to Christianity.

if i wanting to make a thread all about being a christian, i would. no need to worry about that.

i believe some are. i do respect you for standing up for your belifs to be your own person, rather than trying to fit in.[/size=1]

QUOTE

Debate! Where!?

Good luck with trying to prove a man came back from the dead 2,000 years ago. Come on, don't shift the burden of proof on us; nothing impressive about it.

[size=1]and how exactally are you adding to this board?
i'm not trying to prove anything, just debating.
also, when did i say i was trying to impress anyone?

if you feel that, oh well.
i'm not trying to get people to post evidence for the bible being fairytales. i'm trying to see if people can give proof of their belifs.

^ Misoshiru is right though... you are attacking her.

She's contributing just as much as you are.

Seriously, wtf.

just as much as she is attacking me.
but everyone bashes christians nowa'days so i understand.

Oh, did it strike you that maybe you were attacking me first? Maybe that's why I retaliated.

Well if you didn't want people to post evidence about the Bible being a "fairytale", maybe you shouldn't have made that as the topic title.

again, this is called a debate. in a debate, you state your opinions. that's what i'm asking on this board. i just wanted to see if people agreed with her or not and their reasoning so that i could dig into it more.
and honestly, i wasn't trying to be rude when i first said that statement, i just didn't know how to word it. i didn't mean it exactally as it came.

Religion is my most favorite subject to discuss.

Heres what I say.Its ridiculous to believe everything in the bible REALLY happened.Take for instance, noahs ark.Its been scientifically proven that there was no such thing as a global flood.It is, however, possible to be a local flood which couldve been mistaken for a global flood.

Every story in the bible has a realistic problem.The resolutions teach us important life lessons.The characters, setting, stories are fiction.Just like any other bedtime story.

The definition of a fairytale is "a folk story about real-life problems, usually with imaginary characters and magical events".That pretty much sums up the bible for me.

well, obviously some of them are pretty ridiculous to believe. but they do teach lessons on faith. so they do have a meaning.

So some of them are fairytales, then?
That's basically what you just said.

some of them make not have been written to be literal is what i'm saying.
if someone believs that everything in the bible is to be taken literal and not over-exagerating, they're crazy. some of them are symbolic.
for example.
in revelations,

QUOTE

1:20 the mystery of the seven stars which you saw in my right hand, and the seven golden lampstands. The seven stars are the angels of the seven assemblies. The seven lampstands are seven assemblies.

this isn't to be taken literal. do you actually think that god was holding seven stars? he wasn't.
no one knows fully what it means, but i'm pretty sure it represnts the seven continents.

Okay, I see what you're saying.

So we can come to the agreement that at least some of the stories in the bible arent to be taken literally. But then who's to say what stories can and cannot be taken literally? If one story is flawed, then that makes the whole book questionable.

Maybe God was over-exaggerating when he said that those who are blasphemous are damned, and that those who dont choose to believe in him are damned too? Hey, it's possible. Personally, I dont believe that anything in the Bible is the word of God, so it doesnt matter to me either way.

I really hope you dont think I'm trying to attack you or anything, because I'm honestly not trying to.