The Trinity |
Here are the general forum rules that you must follow before you start any debate topics. Please make sure you've read and followed all directions.
![]() ![]() |
The Trinity |
![]()
Post
#51
|
|
Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Member Posts: 728 Joined: Jan 2007 Member No: 495,803 ![]() |
That's the same thing as adding to the Bible. The Bible says nothing about a creation of species over time, or anything close to that... at least in Genesis it doesnt. If it does, I'd love to see a verse. ![]() So you believe the creation of species over time is a fact? Even though its not in the Bible? That IS adding to God's word. So you believe one thing scientists have come up with / discovered, but you dont believe the other half? No, it's not. Adding to God's Word is taking and putting something into it trying to say that God says it's true. What I am saying is that we know Evolution in that sense is true because we see it happening. Look around you, we have evolved just not in the sense most people think. There is more than one type of evolution. For one Scientists have not discovered the Bible to be false so you can't really use that as your defense. I believe that evolution over time is possible because you can see it happening all around you...and I dont mean evolution as in creation of the planet or the fact that 2 animals mate and come out with something totally different from eachother but evolution meaning our height has changed over years, ummm there are certain species within the same specie but somewhat different from the original...evolution in that sence. We have evolved in general. The Trinity is not all around us and is false teachings. Which is why it's adding to God's Word. EXACTLY. God is one being, but has three personhoods. It's sort of an enigma. You're right about the personalities. Exactly right. That's really what I've been trying to say. Personhoods refers to Him being called Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. That's what the Trinity speaks of. A man made word [Trinity] refers to exactly that. God's attributes. Like I've said. 1. God is one being. 2. The Father is God. 3. Jesus is God. 4. The Spirit is God. 5. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are distinguishable persons [Personalities] but all apart of the same being. If the Bible mentions the Father, the Son and Holy Spirit it must be true to a Christian. I really can't tell you why God is referenced in the Bible mostly as He or Him, probably because he is one being with three different personhoods. But, the fact that God mentions to us firstly that He is plural must be true that there is more than one absolute personality than just The Father, or the Son, or the Holy Spirit. As for God speaking to two different people when referencing Gen. 1:26, I don't think that is right, because if God was speaking to angels, which would probably be the case if that were true, we would not be made in the image of God. We would be made in the image of angels. There's a distinction between angels and humans. Angels don't have free will and humans do. Angels are singular beings and God is triune in the sense that He possesses three different offices and personhoods [personalities]. That's really what I'm trying to say. One God...three different personhoods [Personalities]. If it was more than one god, then our religion would be categorized wrongly. Christianity is a monotheistic religion. Yeah it sounds like we believe in the same thing. But what I am trying to point out to you that what your telling me you believe, based off of that, it's not the Trinity, the Trinity is something totally different. If you want me to I can email my old pastor and then send you what he says about the Trinity. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#52
|
|
![]() Kimberly ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Member Posts: 1,961 Joined: Apr 2005 Member No: 121,599 ![]() |
QUOTE For one Scientists have not discovered the Bible to be false so you can't really use that as your defense. I believe that evolution over time is possible because you can see it happening all around you...and I dont mean evolution as in creation of the planet or the fact that 2 animals mate and come out with something totally different from eachother but evolution meaning our height has changed over years, ummm there are certain species within the same specie but somewhat different from the original...evolution in that sence. We have evolved in general. That doesnt really seem like evolution at all. Isnt that more of variation within a kind? QUOTE No, it's not. Adding to God's Word is taking and putting something into it trying to say that God says it's true. What I am saying is that we know Evolution in that sense is true because we see it happening. Look around you, we have evolved just not in the sense most people think. There is more than one type of evolution. But still, how is someone believing in the Trinity any different than partially believing in Evolution? QUOTE Yeah it sounds like we believe in the same thing. But what I am trying to point out to you that what your telling me you believe, based off of that, it's not the Trinity, the Trinity is something totally different. If you want me to I can email my old pastor and then send you what he says about the Trinity. Just because your Pastor says one thing doesnt mean its true. Every Pastor is going to say something different. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#53
|
|
![]() Jake - The Unholy Trinity / Premiscuous Poeteer. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Member Posts: 1,272 Joined: May 2006 Member No: 411,316 ![]() |
The Trinity: In Christianity, the doctrine of the Trinity states that God is one being who exists, simultaneously and eternally, as a mutual indwelling of three persons: the Father, the Son (incarnate as Jesus of Nazareth), and the Holy Spirit.
If you believe in evolution you are contradicting yourself Heath. Evolution is not something that is observable. Therefore just a theory. Evolution actually doesn't make sense because it violates natural laws. One for instance is the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics which states that everything is heading towards entropy [disorder within a system]. But evolution states that everything gradual increases. But to say that I believe in something like the Trinity, according to your words is no better than believing evolution. Your logic: Others beliefs in man made terms is wrong, but yours is correct. JakeKKing believes in the Trinity = wrong / Heath21 believes the word is evolving = correct. Like you said, if God thought it was important and wanted us to know it, then it would be in the Bible. Why isn't evolution in the Bible? Yeah, seriously. I would love to see what your pastor has to say on this subject. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#54
|
|
![]() I'm That Kind of Drunk ![]() ![]() Group: Member Posts: 21 Joined: Mar 2007 Member No: 509,733 ![]() |
I hate religion for a few simple reasons. First off it's all bullshit from a logical point of view but unfortunately people need to feel some kind of connection to a higher power be it gods or aliens and secondly it creates tension and conflict that becomes inevitably pointless in the long run. People do not need to fight over their religious beliefs because neither are right or wrong and I'm sick of religious people completely oblivious to their superiority complexes, always denouncing other faiths and then getting angry and violent when others denounce theirs. That's why I hate religion. I remember speaking to the religious mother of a friend and I asked her "Well, what about people who practice other faiths and are just as devoted as you are to christ?" Her answer to me was "They are wrong." I stare her blankly in the face and ask "What? How can you say that they're wrong and you're not. How can you be so sure?" She says, "Because of my faith in Christ and I can only hope that some day they can see the light." These sounded like the ravings of a crazy person to me. It's people like this who are so closed off to reality. I know some people who don't even realize they are closed off. It's sad. Anyways, Im an Atheist, blah blah, gotta go.
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#55
|
|
![]() Jake - The Unholy Trinity / Premiscuous Poeteer. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Member Posts: 1,272 Joined: May 2006 Member No: 411,316 ![]() |
Well, when people denounce religions and faiths it's to open their eyes. It's called apologetics. Standing up for your faith.
Organized religion can sometimes screw things up, but Christianity is not about having an organized religion. The main premise of Christianity is having a relationship with God. You don't need to go to church or read the Bible to be a Christian. The church in essence is the classroom and the Bible is the textbook. It's just a place to learn. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#56
|
|
![]() I'm That Kind of Drunk ![]() ![]() Group: Member Posts: 21 Joined: Mar 2007 Member No: 509,733 ![]() |
Thats the gayest shit I ever heard. j/k
![]() But seriously, anyone can just say they are religious. I can say I'm a follower of the Gods on top Olympus but then I would look like a crazy person What makes them so much less believeable than an all knowing all seeing higher deity that controls everything and is supremely infallible? Hmm? Or an elephant god that grants wishes? Or a blue humanoid deity with 6 arms? If in fact there is a higher power, isn't it more likely that "it" has pronounced itself to all societies and civilizations simultaneously? So if in fact that was the case and all civilizations are essentially worshipping the same deity, then why the fighting and the killing and the conflicts? Ive read the different religionic[ree-li-gee-on-ick] guidebooks and they all have pretty much the same outline, "do unto others, don't kill unless for a holy cause, a penny saved is a thousand words," Its all the same shit. Stop the fighting, its senseless. Lets all combine under one flag, one god(or gods), lets stop the stupidity. For every debate that is created under religious pretenses, 8 people are executed for believing in what others have deemed non-spiritualistic. f**kin vampires and warlocks, witches and Italians, I hate religion for all these reasons and more. I am sick of other people forcing their beliefs down my throat wherever I go. f**k it. I ain't leaving my apartment anymore. Im gonna smoke up and watch Joan of Arcadia. Bye byes. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#57
|
|
![]() Jake - The Unholy Trinity / Premiscuous Poeteer. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Member Posts: 1,272 Joined: May 2006 Member No: 411,316 ![]() |
Thats the gayest shit I ever heard. j/k ![]() But seriously, anyone can just say they are religious. I can say I'm a follower of the Gods on top Olympus but then I would look like a crazy person What makes them so much less believeable than an all knowing all seeing higher deity that controls everything and is supremely infallible? Hmm? Or an elephant god that grants wishes? Or a blue humanoid deity with 6 arms? If in fact there is a higher power, isn't it more likely that "it" has pronounced itself to all societies and civilizations simultaneously? So if in fact that was the case and all civilizations are essentially worshipping the same deity, then why the fighting and the killing and the conflicts? Ive read the different religionic[ree-li-gee-on-ick] guidebooks and they all have pretty much the same outline, "do unto others, don't kill unless for a holy cause, a penny saved is a thousand words," Its all the same shit. Stop the fighting, its senseless. Lets all combine under one flag, one god(or gods), lets stop the stupidity. For every debate that is created under religious pretenses, 8 people are executed for believing in what others have deemed non-spiritualistic. f**kin vampires and warlocks, witches and Italians, I hate religion for all these reasons and more. I am sick of other people forcing their beliefs down my throat wherever I go. f**k it. I ain't leaving my apartment anymore. Im gonna smoke up and watch Joan of Arcadia. Bye byes. You're right. Anyone can say they are religious and most people do. But the fact is that faith is in the heart. It's not something that you should boast about because that is wrong. You can believe anything you want Luciadus. I'm not here to force my perfect beliefs onto you. HAHAHAHA. That being said, I bid you goodbye. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#58
|
|
![]() I'm That Kind of Drunk ![]() ![]() Group: Member Posts: 21 Joined: Mar 2007 Member No: 509,733 ![]() |
You're right. Anyone can say they are religious and most people do. But the fact is that faith is in the heart. It's not something that you should boast about because that is wrong. You can believe anything you want Luciadus. I'm not here to force my perfect beliefs onto you. HAHAHAHA. That being said, I bid you goodbye. Though I do not agree with your content, I appreciate your candor. I would however request that you withdraw from your beliefs and henceforth pursue possibilities you once would not have ventured towards. Free yourself from your spiritual bonds, discover alternative lifestyles and save what soul you have left in you. Get laid. Peace. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#59
|
|
![]() Jake - The Unholy Trinity / Premiscuous Poeteer. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Member Posts: 1,272 Joined: May 2006 Member No: 411,316 ![]() |
Though I do not agree with your content, I appreciate your candor. I would however request that you withdraw from your beliefs and henceforth pursue possibilities you once would not have ventured towards. Free yourself from your spiritual bonds, discover alternative lifestyles and save what soul you have left in you. Get laid. Peace. Haha, it's not like I live the perfect Christian life. But I'd still choose this one over any other. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#60
|
|
Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Member Posts: 728 Joined: Jan 2007 Member No: 495,803 ![]() |
That doesnt really seem like evolution at all. Isnt that more of variation within a kind? But still, how is someone believing in the Trinity any different than partially believing in Evolution? Just because your Pastor says one thing doesnt mean its true. Every Pastor is going to say something different. It is Evolution, as I have said we have "evolved". There is more than one type of Evolution. If you look up Evolution on dictionary.com it will say it's the creation of species over different generations. As for how is it different. I have already answered that Question and have explained it to you. Re-read my post. I am not saying he's right but he has been studying the Bible for 45 years and can pick a verse out without looking the exact area of the Bible depending on your problem your going through. The Trinity: In Christianity, the doctrine of the Trinity states that God is one being who exists, simultaneously and eternally, as a mutual indwelling of three persons: the Father, the Son (incarnate as Jesus of Nazareth), and the Holy Spirit. If you believe in evolution you are contradicting yourself Heath. Evolution is not something that is observable. Therefore just a theory. Evolution actually doesn't make sense because it violates natural laws. One for instance is the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics which states that everything is heading towards entropy [disorder within a system]. But evolution states that everything gradual increases. But to say that I believe in something like the Trinity, according to your words is no better than believing evolution. Your logic: Others beliefs in man made terms is wrong, but yours is correct. JakeKKing believes in the Trinity = wrong / Heath21 believes the word is evolving = correct. Like you said, if God thought it was important and wanted us to know it, then it would be in the Bible. Why isn't evolution in the Bible? Yeah, seriously. I would love to see what your pastor has to say on this subject. Yes, Evolution is VISIBLE. We have evolved as humans and animals and in no way is it contradicting the Bible. Now, if I said I believed that Evolution created the planet and other things at the beginning, it would be contradicting. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#61
|
|
Member ![]() ![]() Group: Member Posts: 11 Joined: Mar 2007 Member No: 509,844 ![]() |
Again, you're wrong. I'm sorry, I just found the verse that disproves that the Bible only refers to God in the singular. Gen 1:26 - And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. Now, there's absolutely no way you can interpret that differently, because you said that the Bible is clear in its meaning. This verse alone proves that there is a distinct characteristic to our God. He is not only one being, but three personhoods in one. I can interpret that differently, easily. In that scripture when God says "us" and "our" he is using plural wording to denote(symbolize) majesty. Many kings have used that type of plural wording when speaking of themselves. God is majestic, he is the king of kings, he thinks higher than we do, so he will speak higher than we do, he doesnt speak like we do. You keep saying that the trinity is describing Gods characteristics, when you just said he is three Personhoods, which is the same as saying "three persons", the trinity is not saying "three characteristics" its saying "three persons", that is why Heath21 and I are not agreeing with you. Maybe you have gotten confused yourself about the whole trinity theory, because every time someone has attempted to describe it to me, they find themselves getting confused and then they contradict themselves. Three characteristics, and three persons are two different things, God is either three characteristics: Father, son, and Holy Ghost, or he is three persons: Father, son, and Holy Ghost, which is it to you? You are underestimating Gods power by saying he cant be in two or more places at once. When people get filled with the Holy Ghost, which is Gods spirit, then how can his spirit be in many people at once? if his spirit can be in many people at once, then he can be in more than one place at once. And even Trinitarians say that the Holy Ghost is God, and the Father is God, so if why not say theres two persons: the Father/Holy Ghost, and Jesus the son? See the flaws in this trinity theory? God doesnt have to have 3 persons do his will, all it takes is One God, he is powerful, he can do ANYTHING, so why would he need three entities to consist of in order to do all that he has and will do? Yes its true, many churches teach the trinity, and in this world most of the time "majority rules" but if everyone suddenly decided to follow the devil, would you? I wouldnt. Sometimes the majority is wrong. I understand why you believe in the trinity, but you didnt start believing it until someone convinced you to right? cus when we're children we dont understand God or the bible until someone explains it to us, so whoever first explained the trinity to you, explained it so convincingly that you have closed your mind to the truth that God is one being, not three, he has three characteristics, but not three persons. He doesnt need a team, he is powerful enough to do everything himself. In the old testament, it was prophesied that Jesus would come, but the scriptures say he would be named Emanuel, which means: God with us, how do you explain that if Jesus isnt God but one of the "personhoods" that he consists of? I could give you hundreds of scriptures that show that God is one, referring to him as "him", "he", and "his" IM sure you can come up with all the scriptures that describe the Father, son, and Holy Ghost and say that thats proof that there are three personhoods, but those scriptures only convince me that God has three characteristics, he is our Father, he was the SON when he was on earth as Jesus who was "fully man and fully God", thats biblical, and his spirit is refferred to as the "Holy Spirit/Ghost". I wanted to suggest that if you feel yourself getting upset or frustrated on here as ive seen you get, i suggest to take a deep breath and pray that Jesus help you be at peace and be confident with what your saying. In all my experience in talking to people and debating with them, ive found that when someone is not confident with what they are saying they will get upset and defensive and frustrated and even sometimes rude. Ill pray that you have more enjoyable and educational debates ![]() God Bless You All Jessica C. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#62
|
|
Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Member Posts: 728 Joined: Jan 2007 Member No: 495,803 ![]() |
I can interpret that differently, easily. In that scripture when God says "us" and "our" he is using plural wording to denote(symbolize) majesty. Many kings have used that type of plural wording when speaking of themselves. God is majestic, he is the king of kings, he thinks higher than we do, so he will speak higher than we do, he doesnt speak like we do. You keep saying that the trinity is describing Gods characteristics, when you just said he is three Personhoods, which is the same as saying "three persons", the trinity is not saying "three characteristics" its saying "three persons", that is why Heath21 and I are not agreeing with you. Maybe you have gotten confused yourself about the whole trinity theory, because every time someone has attempted to describe it to me, they find themselves getting confused and then they contradict themselves. Three characteristics, and three persons are two different things, God is either three characteristics: Father, son, and Holy Ghost, or he is three persons: Father, son, and Holy Ghost, which is it to you? You are underestimating Gods power by saying he cant be in two or more places at once. When people get filled with the Holy Ghost, which is Gods spirit, then how can his spirit be in many people at once? if his spirit can be in many people at once, then he can be in more than one place at once. And even Trinitarians say that the Holy Ghost is God, and the Father is God, so if why not say theres two persons: the Father/Holy Ghost, and Jesus the son? See the flaws in this trinity theory? God doesnt have to have 3 persons do his will, all it takes is One God, he is powerful, he can do ANYTHING, so why would he need three entities to consist of in order to do all that he has and will do? Yes its true, many churches teach the trinity, and in this world most of the time "majority rules" but if everyone suddenly decided to follow the devil, would you? I wouldnt. Sometimes the majority is wrong. I understand why you believe in the trinity, but you didnt start believing it until someone convinced you to right? cus when we're children we dont understand God or the bible until someone explains it to us, so whoever first explained the trinity to you, explained it so convincingly that you have closed your mind to the truth that God is one being, not three, he has three characteristics, but not three persons. He doesnt need a team, he is powerful enough to do everything himself. In the old testament, it was prophesied that Jesus would come, but the scriptures say he would be named Emanuel, which means: God with us, how do you explain that if Jesus isnt God but one of the "personhoods" that he consists of? I could give you hundreds of scriptures that show that God is one, referring to him as "him", "he", and "his" IM sure you can come up with all the scriptures that describe the Father, son, and Holy Ghost and say that thats proof that there are three personhoods, but those scriptures only convince me that God has three characteristics, he is our Father, he was the SON when he was on earth as Jesus who was "fully man and fully God", thats biblical, and his spirit is refferred to as the "Holy Spirit/Ghost". I wanted to suggest that if you feel yourself getting upset or frustrated on here as ive seen you get, i suggest to take a deep breath and pray that Jesus help you be at peace and be confident with what your saying. In all my experience in talking to people and debating with them, ive found that when someone is not confident with what they are saying they will get upset and defensive and frustrated and even sometimes rude. Ill pray that you have more enjoyable and educational debates ![]() God Bless You All Jessica C. *Claps* Very very nicely put Jess. See, Jake this is what I've been trying to explain to you the whole time. If you can't see what she's saying and understand it, I have no clue what will open your eyes except maybe the fact dying, going to Heaven and only seeing one God lol. But, I hope that this (what Jessica said) will open your eyes to the truth. To be honest I have NEVER believed in the Trinity not even before I became a Christian. Do NOT fall into false teachings, read the Bible, it is truth, anything not mentioned is not of God. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#63
|
|
![]() Jake - The Unholy Trinity / Premiscuous Poeteer. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Member Posts: 1,272 Joined: May 2006 Member No: 411,316 ![]() |
*Claps* Very very nicely put Jess. See, Jake this is what I've been trying to explain to you the whole time. If you can't see what she's saying and understand it, I have no clue what will open your eyes except maybe the fact dying, going to Heaven and only seeing one God lol. But, I hope that this (what Jessica said) will open your eyes to the truth. To be honest I have NEVER believed in the Trinity not even before I became a Christian. Do NOT fall into false teachings, read the Bible, it is truth, anything not mentioned is not of God. But you believe evolution. I'll post more in a while. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#64
|
|
Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Member Posts: 728 Joined: Jan 2007 Member No: 495,803 ![]() |
But you believe evolution. I'll post more in a while. No response to Jessica's response? Why not? Ran out of explanations? Sorry, just had to ask. Not being rude :) As I have said over and over, there is more than one type of Evolution, one is not okay to agree with because of the Bible and goes against Christianity while the other doesn't go against it and is okay to believe. The evolution I believe in as been proven because it is all around us. As I have explained a million times. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#65
|
|
![]() Jake - The Unholy Trinity / Premiscuous Poeteer. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Member Posts: 1,272 Joined: May 2006 Member No: 411,316 ![]() |
No response to Jessica's response? Why not? Ran out of explanations? Sorry, just had to ask. Not being rude :) As I have said over and over, there is more than one type of Evolution, one is not okay to agree with because of the Bible and goes against Christianity while the other doesn't go against it and is okay to believe. The evolution I believe in as been proven because it is all around us. As I have explained a million times. Evolution is the same across the board. There are just different branches dealing with different topics. Why aren't we discussing this in the Evolution topic? As for what Jessica said, no I didn't run of explanations. I just had to do something quick, but I'm back. Who came first? God or kings? Considering God's word was around in the time of kings, I'm sure a selection of them were knowledged in the Bible. True, that verse may be used to symbolize God's majesty, but to mimic is the highest form of flattery. Whose to say that kings didn't use themselves in the pluralistic tense to show that they were great, as God is? What's wrong with your interpretation is that symbolism often uses words for example: As, or like. Such as John used to describe his dreams in the book of Revelation. He desribed a swarm of locust with the breast plates of a horse and was led by their king. Gen. 1:26 states And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. Let's break this down piece by piece, shall we? "And God said": This is used as a declaration. A verbal announcement. There is nothing symoblic about this. "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness": Firstly, this is used in the present tense and shows that God is preparing to create. Secondly, it tells us that He is verbalizing to some other being, or beings. A declaration. Who at this point was created? Animals, the earth, but no living thing that could comprehend the words of the Lord. Not to mention, if God we talking to anything but His personhoods, we would not be in God's likeness, now would we? "and let them have dominion over the fish and the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth." This one is pretty self explanitory. Firstly, to Heath, it shows that we are more than just mammals. We are keepers and watchers over everything on this earth. God gave the earth to us to praise God and witness His glory. He is giving us control. We are more than animals and like I said in the evolution debate, we cannot change because God would therefore have to change. Does that clear it up? |
|
|
![]()
Post
#66
|
|
Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Member Posts: 728 Joined: Jan 2007 Member No: 495,803 ![]() |
Evolution is the same across the board. There are just different branches dealing with different topics. Why aren't we discussing this in the Evolution topic? As for what Jessica said, no I didn't run of explanations. I just had to do something quick, but I'm back. Who came first? God or kings? Considering God's word was around in the time of kings, I'm sure a selection of them were knowledged in the Bible. True, that verse may be used to symbolize God's majesty, but to mimic is the highest form of flattery. Whose to say that kings didn't use themselves in the pluralistic tense to show that they were great, as God is? What's wrong with your interpretation is that symbolism often uses words for example: As, or like. Such as John used to describe his dreams in the book of Revelation. He desribed a swarm of locust with the breast plates of a horse and was led by their king. Gen. 1:26 states And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. Let's break this down piece by piece, shall we? "And God said": This is used as a declaration. A verbal announcement. There is nothing symoblic about this. "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness": Firstly, this is used in the present tense and shows that God is preparing to create. Secondly, it tells us that He is verbalizing to some other being, or beings. A declaration. Who at this point was created? Animals, the earth, but no living thing that could comprehend the words of the Lord. Not to mention, if God we talking to anything but His personhoods, we would not be in God's likeness, now would we? "and let them have dominion over the fish and the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth." This one is pretty self explanitory. Firstly, to Heath, it shows that we are more than just mammals. We are keepers and watchers over everything on this earth. God gave the earth to us to praise God and witness His glory. He is giving us control. We are more than animals and like I said in the evolution debate, we cannot change because God would therefore have to change. Does that clear it up? First of all, you said that since we were created in his image that we would have to be like him right? And that we can't evolve (sorry this in this topic btw). But anyways you said that we can't evolve because that would mean that God would have to change right? Well, heres a good Question for you. God is perfect, right? He has no flaws, right? We were created in God's image, right? So, knowing these things wouldn't we have to be perfect as well? She wasn't saying that "And God said" was a symbol but the word "our" is. He is talking about one of the Characteristics of himself. No, it doesn't clear it up because it makes no sense. I'll let Jessica respond to the rest of it. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#67
|
|
![]() Jake - The Unholy Trinity / Premiscuous Poeteer. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Member Posts: 1,272 Joined: May 2006 Member No: 411,316 ![]() |
First of all, you said that since we were created in his image that we would have to be like him right? And that we can't evolve (sorry this in this topic btw). But anyways you said that we can't evolve because that would mean that God would have to change right? Well, heres a good Question for you. God is perfect, right? He has no flaws, right? We were created in God's image, right? So, knowing these things wouldn't we have to be perfect as well? She wasn't saying that "And God said" was a symbol but the word "our" is. He is talking about one of the Characteristics of himself. No, it doesn't clear it up because it makes no sense. I'll let Jessica respond to the rest of it. Haha. We were perfect creatures until sin entered the world. Secondly, I know she didn't say 'And God said' was a symbol, but I was just breaking the verse down to show you that that verse is literal and not symbolical. I cant do that with out breaking the whole verse down. Please, I would love her to. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#68
|
|
Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Member Posts: 728 Joined: Jan 2007 Member No: 495,803 ![]() |
Haha. We were perfect creatures until sin entered the world. No, "we" were never perfect creatures EVER...Adam and Eve were supposedly the first humans so "we" could of never been perfect to begin with. But since God created Adam and Eve in his image and he's perfect would they also be perfect. God made us in his image but not in the perfect sense or the "evolution sense" but as in his image meaning people. If God is perfect and we were made in his image in the sense of being perfect, we would all have no flaws because being perfect, Adam and Eve wouldn't of sinned and brought sin into the world. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#69
|
|
![]() Jake - The Unholy Trinity / Premiscuous Poeteer. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Member Posts: 1,272 Joined: May 2006 Member No: 411,316 ![]() |
No, "we" were never perfect creatures EVER...Adam and Eve were supposedly the first humans so "we" could of never been perfect to begin with. But since God created Adam and Eve in his image and he's perfect would they also be perfect. God made us in his image but not in the perfect sense or the "evolution sense" but as in his image meaning people. If God is perfect and we were made in his image in the sense of being perfect, we would all have no flaws because being perfect, Adam and Eve wouldn't of sinned and brought sin into the world. Sin corrupted this world and Adam and Eve none the less. You have to look at what sin does to people. When God visted different people throughout the Bible, they were incapable of looking at Him because of their sin. When God created Adam, He would walk with Adam in the garden. That means that they were next to eachother, side by side most likely. When we are without sin we are perfect. That's why man is unperfect. God gave us a free will and it was evident with the Tree of Knowledge. God said don't eat of this and we did. Free will. God doesn't want us to be forced to love Him. He wants us to want to love Him. Image means more than just appearance. It's characteristics, idiosyncricies, and also how we look. God made us with His characteristics. He made us capable of love, righteousness, compassionate, sacrificial, long suffering, and so forth. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#70
|
|
Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Member Posts: 728 Joined: Jan 2007 Member No: 495,803 ![]() |
Sin corrupted this world and Adam and Eve none the less. You have to look at what sin does to people. When God visted different people throughout the Bible, they were incapable of looking at Him because of their sin. When God created Adam, He would walk with Adam in the garden. That means that they were next to eachother, side by side most likely. When we are without sin we are perfect. That's why man is unperfect. God gave us a free will and it was evident with the Tree of Knowledge. God said don't eat of this and we did. Free will. God doesn't want us to be forced to love Him. He wants us to want to love Him. Image means more than just appearance. It's characteristics, idiosyncricies, and also how we look. God made us with His characteristics. He made us capable of love, righteousness, compassionate, sacrificial, long suffering, and so forth. Yeah but if we were created in his image then we'd also be perfect because God is perfect, As I said if that was the case, sin would of never happend because we "are" perfect. I believe when they said - "in his IMAGE" they meant visibly not like characterstics. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#71
|
|
![]() Jake - The Unholy Trinity / Premiscuous Poeteer. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Member Posts: 1,272 Joined: May 2006 Member No: 411,316 ![]() |
Yeah but if we were created in his image then we'd also be perfect because God is perfect, As I said if that was the case, sin would of never happend because we "are" perfect. I believe when they said - "in his IMAGE" they meant visibly not like characterstics. Well, then image is a relative term and can't be agreed upon making this discussion a waste of both of our times. If we were just created in God's image, as in appearance, than we wouldn't be capable of love, or anything else I mentioned before. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#72
|
|
Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Member Posts: 728 Joined: Jan 2007 Member No: 495,803 ![]() |
Well, then image is a relative term and can't be agreed upon making this discussion a waste of both of our times. If we were just created in God's image, as in appearance, than we wouldn't be capable of love, or anything else I mentioned before. A lot of people aren't capable of loving, believe me, I know ![]() Waiste of time, to be honest I think this Trinity is a waiste of time, we both think were right and not really getting anywhere on proving eachother wrong lmao. But I care about fellow Christians so I'm not going to give up on someone unless they positively want me too. Anyways it's my bedtime, have an interview tomorrow...I'll reply to other posts tomorrow. ![]() |
|
|
![]()
Post
#73
|
|
![]() Jake - The Unholy Trinity / Premiscuous Poeteer. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Member Posts: 1,272 Joined: May 2006 Member No: 411,316 ![]() |
A lot of people aren't capable of loving, believe me, I know ![]() Waiste of time, to be honest I think this Trinity is a waiste of time, we both think were right and not really getting anywhere on proving eachother wrong lmao. But I care about fellow Christians so I'm not going to give up on someone unless they positively want me too. Anyways it's my bedtime, have an interview tomorrow...I'll reply to other posts tomorrow. ![]() Well, I know some people might not be able to love, but humans in general are capable of it. Well, I don't think it's a waste of time because if no one challenges your faith, then what do you really believe in? You know? I think the problem is that the Trinity is just an incomprehensible thing. We can't always let our faith get in the way of logic. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#74
|
|
![]() Kimberly ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Member Posts: 1,961 Joined: Apr 2005 Member No: 121,599 ![]() |
QUOTE There is more than one type of Evolution. If you look up Evolution on dictionary.com it will say it's the creation of species over different generations. So, do you still believe in "thecreation of species over different generations?" If not, then you dont believe in Evolution. Ok nevermind. I'm a retard. ![]() |
|
|
![]()
Post
#75
|
|
![]() I'm That Kind of Drunk ![]() ![]() Group: Member Posts: 21 Joined: Mar 2007 Member No: 509,733 ![]() |
Well, I know some people might not be able to love, but humans in general are capable of it. Well, I don't think it's a waste of time because if no one challenges your faith, then what do you really believe in? You know? I think the problem is that the Trinity is just an incomprehensible thing. We can't always let our faith get in the way of logic. Dude, animals can love and are very capable of it. A dog loves a good owner and is sad when not with them. If you've ever seen 101 Dalmations, you'd remember that the two dogs also marry eachother when their respective owners marry. And they loved eachother throughout the entire movie, through thick and thin. Same as The Lady and the Tramp. These were animals showing unrequited love for one another and were unable to scourge their passions. Why is it that Jesus freaks are so limited in their thinking processes. They can be the stupidest people in the world and the smartest people in the world. Secondly, if you need to be challenged in something in order to be sure in your belief, then your belief is stupid. Take love. We're all brought up believing that in order to be truly sure that we love something, we need to be tested, or challenged. Just what is the point in that? What happens when you fail? You could still love the person, just not have any strength of will. Tests and challenges, faith and love. Why all the pressure? What do we need to test ourselves for? Believe in your beliefs, don't question. Ignore the people who challenge your beliefs, whats the point in debating and fighting. Political, religious, and societal debates are pointless because nobody wins because nobody admits defeat. Thirdly, the trinity is also dumb. In some faiths, it wasn't god who became Jesus but the Archangel Micheal, and that they are in fact the same being. Other faiths preach that Michael was in fact Adam, not Jesus. And some faiths preach that Satan is Jesus and God is Pegasus and Medusa gave birth to Job who killed his pet centaurs. I don't know. I forgot what the hell I was talking about. Anyways religious debates are pointless, so stop making them Jake. haha. |
|
|
![]() ![]() |