Saw another thread that reminded me of this: Christian (Optimistic) & Non-Bible (realistic). Anyways the Bible was written by human beings, who were capable of mistakes, a long time ago and it can be full of gaps and flaws. The main point is that it teaches Christians about faith, right and wrong, and hope. btw long time ago attended a private church school and now currently atheist so please don't take offense on my opinion.

1 Chronicles 16:30: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable.”

Psalm 93:1: “Thou hast fixed the earth immovable and firm ...”

Psalm 96:10: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable ...”

Psalm 104:5: “Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken.”

Isaiah 45:18: “...who made the earth and fashioned it, and himself fixed it fast...”

http://www.lhup.edu/~DSIMANEK/febible.htm

Wait, wait what? That's not what Isaiah 40:22 says, my friend.

Circle =/= Sphere

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?searc...&version=9;

I'm now confused.

And honestly, if the Bible was meant to tell the whole story (or the "truth"), why be so cryptic? I mean one translated version says "suspended", and another says "hang", all of which DO NOT mean "free float" alone. From what I've read, they pretty much say the Earth is static on empty space and we all know that's wrong, too. Where are you getting your passages? Are you "interpreting" them in your own words or something? Well, isn't that convenient?

And while science advanced to call Earth a rotating, revolving sphere, the Bible's still stuck on a "hanged" and "suspended" Earth.

--
must find time to dig up cell phone debate.

Yeah, well. Can some really part the Red Sea though?

the genius creator of the Hitchhikers guide put it beautifully. in a nutshell:

faith cannot exist with logic. if one has logic, one cannot have faith because faith is based upon trust about the unknown, which, in essence, cannot be determined by lack of logic/knowledge. if you try to prove a faith through logic, you'll kill yourself.

Spirited Away,

Very good questions / points.


Isaiah 40:22 does specifically say "circle" in the King James English. Please remember, though, that the English word you see is an interpretation of the Hebrew word, "chuwg" (pronounced "khoog" -- like a hocker sound in the beginning, though). This word means "circle, circuit, or compass". The "compass" is not for North / South, but rather to encompass / surround something. The word "sphere" does not appear in the KJV Bible because this same Hebrew word covers both "circle" and "sphere".


Once again, if you look at the original Hebrew, you'll see that the word "talah" (pronounced "taw-law") means "to suspend or hang / hang up". When you look at the verse in Job, notice that it says " and hangeth the earth upon nothing." If you hang something on nothing, you can use whatever modern word you'd like (including "free float"), but bottom line is that it's hanging on nothing.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you're describing the difference between translations and interpretations. We start with the originals -- the Hebrew & Aramaic of the Old Covenant and the Greek for the New Covenant. We have these documents and this is why, for any questions, this is what is referred to in order to get away from translation issues. These originals have been translated into other languages: English, Chinese, German, etc. Then you get into different interpretations from one English version to another English version. For example, if I were to be speaking in "1950's English", I might say that someone was very gay. But to the "2000's English" listener, they'd think I was saying someone was a homosexual. So, the KJV may say that someone was wearing "gay" clothing but the New KJV says "fine clothes" -- both correct translations based on the original Greek word and putting into the light of what people of the time understand. The original is unchanged.

The point that we shouldn't be overlooking, though, is that it is only the Bible that has described exactly what "science" has finally concluded to be true. It may not have used the exact words that you'd prefer to see, but it has been a true and correct account of something that man took thousands of years to confirm. The One who created all things wrote this down thousands of years earlier to show that He can document that which He created.

lanbexx,


Wow. That's really deep.

Consider this: A father has to leave his son in a room with a fire in the fireplace. The son has never experienced being burned and has never attempted to touch fire before. Before stepping out of the room, the father tells the son not to touch the fire or he'll be burned. While the father's gone, though, the son disobeys his father and reaches for the fire. He gets burned.

That boy has moved from the realm of untested faith and disbelief into the realm of tested faith and belief. His trust in his father's words is magnified. He now takes this experience into account the next time his father tells him that something's hot and that he shouldn't touch it. He now uses logic in order to exercise his new-found, tested faith.

Logical application of faith and experience lead to increased faith.

The Hitchhikers' Guide is a book that won't help anyone on the day they stand before the Lord in judgment. The Bible is compilation of 66 books written by 40 authors from very different stations in life over a period greater than a thousand years. In it are the words of life and death. Please take the time to consider your eternal destiny and how the Righteous and Holy Judge will look upon you on your Day of Judgment. No one can guarantee that they'll wake up the next day. Please consider what God's done -- in His Mercy and Grace -- so your fine (and mine) can be paid in full for breaking his Commandments.

yrrnotelekktric,


You're right. There's no person that can part the Red Sea. That really wouldn't be a problem for the one who created the water in the first place, though.

Go to - "http://www.myspace.com/sweetangel2128" and visit my blog entitled - "bible contradictions". It has a whole list of them for ya.

i'm going to go with faith and trust..
the bible has stayed consistent and loyal whereas science can always revolutionize itself especially with time.

How can the Bible be full of facts when thousands of verses in the Bible contradict themselves...read some of the verses in my blog and look them up in your Bible, you will find I am right on a lot of them

Okay, I'm hooked. I've got to admit that I'm completely intrigued: Why would you bother reading something you consider to have so many contradictions and use it to determine whether or not you're a good person ? Honestly, why even worry that your friend was saying that you were sinning by having premarital relations when you most likely think that the Bible was simply authored by men ?

What do you specifically believe about the Bible ? Do you just like the stories for some reason ?

As for your list of contradictions: Please identify the 3 "biggest" contradictions on your blog so we can discuss them. What's interesting is that you even admit that you're "right on a lot of them". If you even recognize that the others are not contradictions, why have them ?

PS, it's easy to post a link of debunked contradictions too. Tektonics has a bunch of them. But for the sake of debate, why not highlight a few?

First of all, I just recently found out about the contradictions, I've been or was a Christian for almost 2 years without knowing because I was told it didn't contradict when in actuality it does

And I never said that it was authored by men but "people"...people did write the Bible and we have no clue in knowing whether or not the stories are real because those men are not here today to ask them.

What do I believe about the Bible? Did I just read the stories? Like I stated above, I just recently found out about the contradictions and it is very rude for someone like you to assume that I only read the Bible for the interesting stories...just so freakin' rude. Anways...before I knew of the contradictions I believed in all of the Bible that I have read and heard about until I found out about the contradictions and the fact that we are to not have premarital sex, saying gays are sinning and the fact that you are to not mix with an un-believer...3 things I feel strongly about.

Ok as for the verses, I'll be gladly to show them to you or read them to you. Here ya go: (when your done reading them, look it up in the Bible to verify it, you will find it is there):

1. John 10:30 - "I and my Father are one."
2. John 14:28 - "Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father; for my Father is greater than I".

3. Isaiah 14:21 - "Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.
4. Deutromy 24:16 - "The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

5. Numbers 12:3 - (the one I found for this one was a really off but when I looked it up it says that Moses was a humble man but in another verse it talks of him killing).
6. Numbers 31:14, 17, 18.

7. Acts 1:18 - "Now this man (Judas) purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out."
8. Matthew 27:5-7 - "And he (Judas) cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself."

Heres a few to think about and my views on the verses (sorry if they are not EXACTLY worded right but if you read them in the Bible closley it means the EXACT same thing):

1/2. I believe this one is contradicting because one he's saying that he and the Father are one but in a different section it says the Father is greater than he....so how can he be both and what exactly is he?

3/4. Basically, this one is contradicting because it's saying that he will not kill anyone accept the people that brought on the sin int he first place, but not he son and daughters but yet he says in a different verses that the sons and daughters will be killed for sinning but the parents of the sinners will not. ?????

5/6. Just like I stated, it says in one verse that Moses was a very humble man but later on in a different verse it talks of his anger and how he killed people.

7/8. It talks of 2 different ways that he died..so which is it? Hanging or his instestines/guts bursting out? It surely can't be both.

Go ahead and try to argue these points but I guarentee you wont succeed because I looked these up in MY Bible and it says pretty much the same exact thing so the Bible is contradicting.






It may be easy but if you've noticed he listed the exact verses and areas they are in as did I...so if you go look it up and it says nothing like that of course it's fake but if you look it up and it says that then obviously neither one of us was lying or making things up. Most people think that posting links isn't good proof cause anyone can write anything but they seem to forget that most people put the verses where it can be found so to prove it just look up the verse they stated...theres your proof. If you don't have a Bible go to:

http://www.biblegateway.com

That website gives you the ability to look up certain scriptures in the Bible and what book you want to look it up in.

Just so you guys know my Bible is a New Living Translation one.

Let me explain why I used the term "authored". Which writes a letter: the pen or the author ? Clearly, it's the author. The author uses the pen. In the same way, God used the men (or people, as you say) to "scribe" His Word. God authored the Word. This is the only way that the Bible can contain specific & fulfilled prophecies. No man can tell the future with as much certainty and as much conciseness as One outside of time -- specifically, only the One who calls Himself "the Alpha and Omega".

As for having no clue as to whether or not the stories are real: Read 2 Timothy 3:16. Because of all you've written, I have no alternative than to assume that you don't believe this verse either.

Please forgive me for my choice of words. I certainly had no intention of being rude. I'm trying to put together all the things you've said in our past discussions. Specifically, you stated, "...right now I am wondering if I am a Christian because well I don't follow the Bible but I do read it a lot and love the education of it but I also live my life my way while I'm on earth." So, from this, I assumed that you don't believe the Bible is the Word of God; that you read it because you like the teaching (and stories) of it; and that you read it as the writing of men. Is this not true ?

If you believed the Bible before you were exposed to the "contradictions", what was your level of belief of John 3:3 ? Were you born again ?

In terms of your timeframe, though, did it happen that you first found out about the "contradictions" in Scripture and then your views of "premarital sex, saying gays are sinning and the fact that you are to not mix with an un-believer" changed ? Or did you already have issues with those teachings prior to hearing about the "contradictions" ?

I hope that you're comfortable answering these questions because it really is something I've wondered for a long time about those who struggle with the supposed contradictions in the Bible.

I use the KJV, so I'm going to put the verses here so you can note any differences:

John 10:30 "I and my Father are one."
John 14:28 "Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I."

Please read the following:
Hebrews 2:9 "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man"
Philippians 2:6-7 "Who [Jesus], being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:"
John 1:1,2,14 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God...And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

I have a feeling that you might not understand the Biblical teaching of the Trinity. The whole concept of the Trinity is that God has 3 separate parts -- as we all do. We all have a body, an eternal spirit, and a will or mind. As it says in Genesis 1:26, we are made in His image. Why, if we're made in His image, would we not have the same attributes as Him ? Well, we do. He also has a Body, a Spirit, and a Will. Those 3 parts make up who you are. His 3 parts make Him who He is.

Just as Scripture speaks of a heirarchy: Parent to child; Husband to wife; Government to governed, the Bible speaks of the hierarchy that exists for the 3 parts that make up God. The Father (His Will) is above the Son (His Body) which is above the Spirit (His Spirit).
John 8:29 "And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him."

So, I believe the core of this is your understanding of the Trinity. Remember that Christianity only believes in ONE God, but that ONE God is made of 3 distinct and separate parts.

Yes, I know the word "trinity" is nowhere in the Bible, but this is a word that has been used to describe the teaching the Bible. If you'd like to discuss this topic to a further degree, I'd be happy to. Feel free to PM me if you prefer.

Isaiah 14:21 "Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities."
Deuteronomy 24:16 "The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin."

The reason this isn't a contradiction is that the verse in Isaiah 14 is talking of the judgment of a nation. That whole nation had become so corrupt that God's determination is to slaughter that whole nation. Look at the example of Ninevah (where Jonah was sent). In His Mercy, God sent a Jewish prophet to a Gentile nation that was in jeopardy of national judgment. The message sent to them was REPENT or be judged. They repented. This is what God wants of all people -- to repent and to look to & follow Him. Look, also, to the example of Sodom and Gomorrah. Judgment didn't fall on those cities until after the one righteous family was removed. After that, though, those places were judged.

The Deuteronomy 24 verse (as well as what it says in Ezekiel 18) talks of God's judgment on individuals. The nation in which the individuals live has not become absolutely corrupt, so God allows each individual to choose whether or not repent and follow Him.

This is no contradiction. In fact, it shows God's righteousness in judging people as individuals as well as judging a nation that has completely rejected Him.

Numbers 12:3 "(Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men which were upon the face of the earth.)"
Numbers 31:14, 17, 18 "And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle... Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him... But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."

What does "meek" mean ? Did you think it meant "weak" ? The Biblical use of the word "meek" shows that it is strength under control.

Jesus called Himself "meek" (Matthew 11:29). Was He weak ? He allowed Himself to be scourged and crucified without trying to get away from it. He even prayed that if there was another way than the cross, to let that "cup pass from Him". He knew what was coming yet He endured it (Hebrews 12:2). Does that sound weak to you ? Not at all -- that's strength under complete control. Fact is that His Sacrifice was written in over abundance around 700 years prior to the event -- read Isaiah 52:13 - 53:12.

He knew that it was only through His Sacrifice that people could be cleansed from their sins.

Acts 1:18 "Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out."
Matthew 27:5-7 "And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself. And the chief priests took the silver pieces, and said, It is not lawful for to put them into the treasury, because it is the price of blood. And they took counsel, and bought with them the potter's field, to bury strangers in."

Why would it be difficult to consider that after he fulfilled Zechariah 11:12-13 (written about 500 years before Messiah was born), Judas went to hang himself and fell from a height from which "he burst asunder".

Wouldn't you be able to read in the newspaper the description of someone in a car accident that died instantly upon impact with the steering column and that their abdomen ruptured such that they "burst asunder" ? If someone were to describe this person's death and said that they died due to the impact with the steering column and someone else said that the person's abdomen ruptured open, how is there a contradiction ?

Again, it sounds like you haven't understood the Trinity properly.

Again, national judgment versus individual.

Humble men can still have righteous anger. Just look at Jesus as He drove out the money changers in the Temple.
***
7/8. It talks of 2 different ways that he died..so which is it? Hanging or his instestines/guts bursting out? It surely can't be both.
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Remember that neither Matthew 27:5-7 nor Acts 1:18 specify whether Judas died by hanging or died by the fall. He could've died hanging and fell already dead or he could've screwed up once again and merely tried to hang himself but it was the fall that killed him. The Bible doesn't specifically say that he died hanging in one verse and that he died from being burst asunder in another verse. That would be a contradiction. There is no contradiction.
***
Go ahead and try to argue these points but I guarentee you wont succeed because I looked these up in MY Bible and it says pretty much the same exact thing so the Bible is contradicting.
---
I completely understand. When you go to those verses for yourself and see the apparent contradiction in JUST READING THOSE VERSES, it does look like the Bible contradicts itself. Someone could easily look to my past postings here and pick out excerpts of what I've said and say, "Look at the contradictions in what ScottD's saying !! In one place, he says that men wrote the Bible and in another place he says that God wrote the Bible. Well, which is it !!?? That's a contradiction." Thankfully, that did happen and it reminded me to be more specific when writing things down. Men penned the Bible. God authored the Bible. No contradiction.


I would like to know, though -- since you say that "...I've been or was a Christian for almost 2 years..." -- did you even go to your pastor or a more mature Christian in order to discuss the "contradictions" that were exposed to you ? Or did you simply take a list of "contradictions" by people who are not Christians and use that as your justification to say that the Bible is not the Word of God ?

Note that, as with the above "contradictions", we can discuss ad nauseam many, many more. Please consider again that these supposed contradictions are written by people who already reject Christ and the Bible as the Word of God. Find a more mature Believer to help you through your concerns. Don't just take one side of an argument without taking the time to investigate further -- that goes both way, of course.

I have to end this post with the reminder that for each "contradiction", there is a response. If it is God's Word, then there is no contradiction. If it is God's Word, then it states very clearly how to avoid the judgment of wrath to come. You must repent and you must be born again. That's the only way.

Please consider your eternal destiny. The Bible only speaks of two eternal destinations.

Now, firstly I am not going to respond to that because I do have a life and don't have the time, no offense not trying to be rude. I still stand by on my thoughts and what I found though. I did read your responses but they make "absolutely" no sense to me. Like I tell everyone...God doesn't give us hints, it's written right there clear as day..so I know what I saw.

Anyways, now about this line above m here...you obviously didn't read one of the things I put...I told you I found the contradictions recently and if you've seen my other posts I don't go to church anymore so theres no way I'd go to a pastor..besides, it's still comes down to the pastors views on the Bible he doesn't know what it says FOR SURE...he didn't create it...plus I am sure a lot of pastors would feed me bull just to get me to join there group.

Nuff said.

"As for having no clue as to whether or not the stories are real: Read 2 Timothy 3:16"

Ok I said that no one has no clue where or not the Bible is all fact..and you gave me a verse to look up...why would a read a verse from the Bible for the answer when we don't know if it's real?

Amen.

mishyerr,

"Amen" is usually meant as a sign of agreement. If you agree with this other person's opinion, can you please explain, then, what this means ??

Actually, I used to be a very strong follower; don't take me up as some athiest who has never read the Bible.

And since your cute little signature is a quote from the Bible, why don't you tell ME how you are living as Jesus, bearing the cross on your back as a daily burden, and following Jesus' preachings word by word?

Oh, and no need to define "amen" for me. I think I know what it means. Thanks. :]

Good day, mishyerr.

I'll certainly answer your question once you've answered my previous question first.

What does it mean to you when you agreed with the following statement:

I think she believes that, now-a-days we (as Christians) do not follow the word according to the way Jesus meant us to.

Exactly.

Well, that's why we have the Bible. God intended us to research for ourselves.

As opposed to restating the original quote that you said "Amen" to, please elaborate as to what the original quote means to you, please. What, according to your understanding, is the difference betwen "Christianity today" and what Jesus "meant it to be" ??

Just for reference:

Well, I think everyone has there own way of interpreting what the Bible or what God is trying to say...everyone has there own views of what sins are and what's not a sin. As long as the person loves God why does it matter how they live there Christian life? That's what I always believed when I was a Christian and I do still believe that even though I am no longer a Christian.

Well, to clarify, if you accepted Jesus in your heart than you can't loose that. You might not follow the religion, but you still are a Christian.

Secondly, there are things that you can't interpret, because that view could change the beliefe 180 degrees.Some things are meant to be interpreted, but that's why there is this whole thing about gay ministers and marrying gay couples. It clearly says in the Bible that homosexuality is wrong, but people have interpreted it some way that it's not to them.