yep.

Oh really? I can't even say anything towards that.

Anyways, Im Agreeing with AcidBath(nice avatarand siggy..lol im not joking, they are different than what you normally see) I'm pretty skeptical when it comes to Jesus being...REAL. I'm atheist so my thoughts are completely different compared to a christians but, that's besides the point. In my eyes, Jesus isn't real. People say that it was possible that jesus had a lot of followers becuase he was able to heal people but it's in a different sense than what people think it is. He just solved Problems for people, he wasn't a god. That's true becuase there isn't such a thing. I'm basing this on nothing but what I'm thinking of right now. Once I actually pull out my findings, I'll be sure to post some of them. I'm truly sorry if I offended anyone

^ I respect your thoughts and everything, but when you say that "there is no such thing as a god" you're really not going to be able to come back with some "findings" on that one.

Jesus Does exsist

I personally think, Jesus existed and all the torture and scary stuff happened too, but he was just an ordinary man, just like the rest of us. So yeah, I don't think he did anything supernatural or whatever. I also don't think there's God because there has been no way to prove that there is an existence of God. But afterall, this is my personal opinion only.

Ya I do think I went a bit overboard on that one. Im Sorry about that. I think I Just went a little crazy.

why would 934039458309458304958 (i'm not sure how many, but that number sounds about right), read the Bible, go to Church, and pray, if Jesus wasn't real?

The same reason 934039458309458304958 people read the Vedas, go to Mandir, and meditate in thought of Brahman.

So you're insinuating that Hinduism has no basis of truth either? Care to explain that one?

Either?

1. I was never proposing that the entirety of Christianity had absolutely no basis in truth whatsoever.
2. My insinuation has very little (to nothing) to do with a possible basis of truth within Hinduism or not.

I'm saying people believe in religion and spirituality, not because it is true, but because it makes them feel good. Clearly, not both Christianity and Hinduism are entirely true religions. They can not both be true. The poster seemed to suggest that since many people believe in Christianity, that Jesus must have been real (to what extent he wishes, I am not sure). All I was meaning to demonstrate is that there are many more people who believe divergent things. He can't permit that both systems are true, yet many people still believe in each.

There is no way to prove that the sysems are in fact mutually exclusive.... but that's a completely different topic, so for the sake of argumentation I'll conceed to your point. I misunderstood the point you were trying to make. My apologies.

I'm still curious, though, when is the con-existence side going to do anything but question the proof that Jesus existed?

When are they going to have enough evidence to show that he didn't? The answer is never.

QUOTE(lumpy @ Jul 18 2006, 12:07 AM)

why would 934039458309458304958 (i'm not sure how many, but that number sounds about right), read the Bible, go to Church, and pray, if Jesus wasn't real?

So are you saying if 934039458309458304958 people read the bible, go to church, and pray, then Jesus must be real?

Which proves that Jesus DID exist, oh wait...

I never said that the lack of proof on the con-side verified his existence. My aim was to show that the inability of the con-side to heartily disprove his existence leaves the pro-side in a better position in most respects.

Hoorah for misconstruing the idea.

you do that yourself when you question the inability to prove his nonexistance.

and yet you ignore me when i say this:

if you can prove jesus exists, you have no faith, and suck as a christian. so stop trying.

Hm so you seem to think jesus existed but you don't believe that there is no God Umm interesting your a werido!!

Umm, I'm not sure if you were addressing me, but if you were, I'm sorry that I've been ignoring you?

In response, however, the "inability to prove his nonexistence" you reference is, in my eyes, continually barraged by an onslaught of evidence and articles attempting to verify him as a man that lived at one time. That is why I'm so put off by the attempts to disprove his existence because they are based solely on convenient doubt.

But the statement you made, "if you can prove jesus exists, you have no faith, and suck as a christian. so stop trying." isn't wholly true. Christians don't really base their faith on the fact that Jesus existed as a man -- that much they recognize. Rather, they have faith in his status as the "son of God." It is this aspect of Jesus, the man, that they can't prove. Therefore, they have faith in it.

EDIT//



You really need to read the rules of this forum.

no, christianity is about total faith.

now, the faith is that jesus was the christ. however, it is easier to believe this with proof of his existance as a man.

ergo, proof of his existance as a man undermines your faith in jesus, resulting in inferior christianity.

Jesus comes to the chat all the time. You should come ask him your self. :-)

However, faith in Jesus means you believe that he was a both God and man (the Son of Man, the God Man... God incarnate.. etc.) therefore proving he exists doesn't result in inferior christianity. It's merely boosting your confidence in something you had total faith in to begin with.. and it's cool to do that research.

wow..... that doesn't follow at all.... There is not a shred of truth in any part of that satement..... Christianity has never been about total faith.... it is about faith based on scripture and tradition.... the tradition part kinda got screwed over by martin luther in the protestant revolt, so now many christian denominations base their faith solely on scripture and concience.... but it has never been about total faith.... and proving something true that you believed to be true for centuries does not undermine your faith, it strengthens it..... Where are you getting your information on Christianity? This is the second time you have made an argument based on completely false notions of christian beliefs..... please, I thought we were supposed to be basing our argument on fact.... not spewing the bs that pops into our heads..... do some research...... and realize that you will find a lot of people who claim to be christians but really have no clue when it comes to their religion. Go talk to a priest or reverend and get the facts on what Christianity is all about.... then you can come back and try to use true statements to convince us of your point...... when you try to make a point from false authority, you end up making no point at all.

That logic is extremely faulty. At no point in any of my research of the Christian religon have I encountered any doctrine about having faith that Jesus actually was a person on this earth. The faith part lies in his power to "absolve us from sin" and to "deliver us from evil" as the "son of God."

I know you try deductive reasoning and whatnot, but how do you arrive at these whimsical points?



That doesn't prove anything, nor does it make anything easier. His mere existence on the earth does no justice to whether he is a deity or not.

question: is it easier to believe jesus was the son of god if you know there was a man about the time named jesus who was prominent enough for records of him to be made?

if the answer is in any form yes, then proving the existance of a person named jesus is a lack of faith. seeking the proof is a lack of faith, and seeking the facts is a lack of faith.

and if i'm not mistaken, god's power comes from faith and faith alone. that's why he refuses to prove his existance- correct? he could make miracles all day, but then people owuldn't beleive out of faith.

Why shouldn't you? Why shouldn't you seek to prove his existence if you have an army of skeptics breathing down your neck?

Your logic still doesn't stand up, and it won't.