As far as I knew, the Sabbath was a day of rest and worship. Where is the requirement that this rest and worship must reside within a church?

On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul began talking to them, intending to leave the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight.

-Acts 20:7

Not to mention, the Last Supper was essentially the first mass, and this is what attendance at church on Sunday attempts to emulate.

That is all fine and dandy, but it seems largely interpretive. Not very authoritative.
Either way, I would agree that if you did believe in the gospels and considered yourself a christian, you shouldn't have much trouble with going to church on a decently regular basis, at least. Oh well.

Exactly what are you having difficulty understanding? I'll try to help and solve it, but first I need to pinpoint exactly what you're having trouble with.

Is it because you believe that Jesus never said it himself?

"And when He had taken some bread and given thanks, He broke it and gave it to them, saying, "This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me."
-Luke 22:19

No, it's just that, each line seems open to interpretation concerning where or how exactly any of these rights or traditions should be done. And, many sects interpret them differently. This is nothing that seems to clearly state that mass and church should be attended on a regular basis on the Sabbath. In fact, there are things that suggest just the opposite, or even that the Sabbath should not be practiced.

"Having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us and which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him. Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day- things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ." (Col 2:14-16)

yes, i am religous. not THAT devoted to my religon tho. just enough to have faith in the lord. and the reason i am religous is because faith gives me hope, and it gives me a sense of guidance, and a sense of whats right and whats wrong. and also because, "why not?" even if there is no god, at least your happy :)

"Religion is the opiate of the masses." -Karl Marx

I'm not a marxist or anything, I'd have to agree with that statement. I am personally agnostic. So far in my life, I've had no reason to believe in god, nor any proof implying that he exists, though you also cannot say that there is no ultimate being.

Well, you could say it. That won't make it right. But, hey. Whatever.
Either way, do you believe in God?

Open to interpretation? Jesus flat out lays out something to be followed. I don't see how else it can be interpreted.

As for Collossians 2:16, read it again, in full context. He is referring to the old Jewish practices.

why is the debate centering around christianity?

there are other religions out there.


its just making me angry that most of these pages have been spent debating the accuracy of one particular religion.

even if it is a major one.

Because there isn't anyone else representing the other religions.

ok then.

if there are any jews out there who want to make me have faith in judaism, im here.

jesus, when he was alive, didn't talk to his diciphles through a priest, like the oracle at delphi.

therefore, jesus wishes a personal relationship with his followers.

all that matters is your belief in jesus. on judgement day, that is all that will matter. it doesn't matter how often you went to church or if you gave the church money. what matters is if you believe in jesus.

if you believe in jesus and feel sorry for whatever you did then you get to go to heaven. if you don't believe in jesus then nothing you do, not even going to church, will let you into heaven.

so it doesn't matter about church or what jesus said. as long as you believe in him and repent whatever you did.

1) You are not saved by faith alone. Faith and works are required for salvation.
2) Feeling sorry is not enough. The sacrament of penance and absolution is required if you have sinned. Or, you can just not sin ever.

See my "Questions for Protestants" thread.

no. im not. the main reason is because god is the reason why my mom commited suicide.

There's probably more to the story, but I understand if you don't want to share the rest of it.

God wants us to understand the value of human life. We have no right to take it away. Only He decides when it is time for us to die. It was probably not his will that she took her own life. Like I said, there is probably more to the story, but it's none of my business.

I understand that your mom's death is very traumatic. But you shouldn't be in denial. Instead, you should pray for your mother's soul, so that God will have mercy on her.

QUOTE(kryogenix @ Mar 14 2006, 1:30 AM)

There's probably more to the story, but I understand if you don't want to share the rest of it.

God wants us to understand the value of human life. We have no right to take it away. Only He decides when it is time for us to die. It was probably not his will that she took her own life. Like I said, there is probably more to the story, but it's none of my business.

I understand that your mom's death is very traumatic. But you shouldn't be in denial. Instead, you should pray for your mother's soul, so that God will have mercy on her.

yes, there is more of the story. she obviously didnt know that killing yourself is a sin. so shes in probably in hell. (not that i believe in it anyway)

its hard to describe my life in words. ever since her death (when i was 9) everything else just fell apart. there has never been a day where god has let me live with joy. everytime something good happens, a bad moment replaces it. how should i believe in something that doesnt even give me hope? theres no such thing as luck..for me anyway. its like everything is my fault. like, im being punished for things i dont even know im doing. people tell me to have faith. that if i just pray hard enough, or have better belief in him, hes going to turn everything around. i know sterotypically, emo kids say, "no one knows how my life is. i hate my life. blah, blah, blah." but, in reality, that is my life. no one truly knows how it feels to cry like i do. no one knows the true meaning of loneliness. and then, theres me. so, its almost been 7 years, and i still have nothing to look forward to.

But doesn't God have a grand master plan for you and your life follows God's plan and everything is a part of God's plan?

Again, I'm not sure of the circumstances that surrounded your mother's death, so I will not speculate at all. Also, it's really not up to us humans to speculate who goes to heaven or hell. Heaven can decide well enough!

This is what the Roman Catholic Church teaches on suicide.



The right thing to do is to pray for your mother's soul. We have no way of knowing whether she was granted mercy or not. Perhaps now you see that there is still hope. Pray for your mother's soul.



I can't understand why you think no one knows how you feel. When you have troubles, offer it up to God. Misfortunate events are crosses that we all must bear. Think of what Jesus had to go through, and the cross that He had to bear.

I wish you luck in your journey, I will pray for both you and your mother.



Yes God has a plan. But God gave us free will. We don't have to follow God's plan if we don't want to. However, there are consequences for not following God's plan.

Think of it like a business. There is a Manager/Executive/Board/Guy-in-charge. He has a plan for the business. He knows that the plan will lead to success and he gives people guidelines in order to work towards the goal. Now say a worker doesn't want to follow the plan. There are consequences for that worker. Even though the worker may have derailed the plans in the short term, the boss has the resources to get the company back on track.

Similarly, God gave us free will, but a set of guidelines on how to exercise our freedom. We can choose to obey the guidelines and be rewarded, or disobey them and be punished.

But it wasn't that girl's choice to have something like that happen in her life, so why should she face the consequences if it wasn't part of God's plan for her? That wasn't her free will. Wouldn't God not let it happen if she didn't do anything to deserve it?

QUOTE(disco infiltrator @ Mar 14 2006, 9:51 PM)

But it wasn't that girl's choice to have something like that happen in her life, so why should she face the consequences if it wasn't part of God's plan for her? That wasn't her free will. Wouldn't God not let it happen if she didn't do anything to deserve it?

what do you mean?

QUOTE(kryogenix @ Mar 14 2006, 8:10 PM)

Again, I'm not sure of the circumstances that surrounded your mother's death, so I will not speculate at all. Also, it's really not up to us humans to speculate who goes to heaven or hell. Heaven can decide well enough!

oh, haha. i thought i had said the reason of her death.

she killed herself because of her belief in god. she wanted to be with him so much, so she took the easy way out.
i remember she got baptized(sp) the week prior to her death. im thinking that she probably planned it, thinking she would go up after she died.

Other people's decisions affect our lives all the time. Adam and Eve are the reason why we were locked out of paradise. But Jesus was born, died, and resurrected in order to redeem us. Perhaps something will balance out her life as well.



Ah I see. Again, I'm really sorry for your loss. You probably know this already, but her theology was off if she believes this. Baptism cleans your slate. She knew this. But she put her soul in jeopardy by commiting suicide. Commiting suicide is not justified unless one was in extreme peril (for example, the people who jumped out of the windows of the world trade center to avoid the fires). Terrorists kill for their belief in God, but that does not make it right. But there is still hope for her.

With the given information, I still don't see why you would leave the Church (by the way, what religion were you?).

^^ i was catholic. i mean, its not just becaase of her death. the whole religon thing is super confusing. if adam and eve were truly the first humans, then how can they make children with so many races? doesnt science prove that we evolved from fish or something? and why are there so many religons? the power of prayer never works for me. time and time again, i had sat on my knees holding a cross necklace, praying to god to have mercy on me. to stop punishing me for consequences that shouldnt happen. and he never granted me anything.

Alright, so we have some common ground.

Yes, understanding theology can be confusing. That's why it's critical that we try to develop a good understanding of it by taking CCD and reading the Catechism and the Bible.

If you have any questions concerning Catholic theology, I'd like to reccommend that you ask on this site.

At this point, I am confused about my religion, but let me say my opinion on CCD.

The CCD classes offered here are useless and pointless. They try to get us closer to God by making us answer text books that contain questions like,

"If you were to play Hide and Seek with God, where do you think he would hide?"

or questions like

"Which favorite song of yours do you think God will like too?" (A lot of kids in my class tried to act cute by putting in sex songs or songs about drugs... my friend and I put in a song by HIM and Nirvana...)

They even made us read a whole play script thing that had Jesus as a popular boy in school . Seriously! There are BETTER ways to get the youth more interested in becoming an active Christian.