innocenct untill proven guilty. but when proven guilty, he's guilty.

he's not on death row because some jury aquitted him.

Check the Wikipedia article.

^ Some change.

Also..when he was..well...when he was trying to fight off the stuff in the needle..he kept trying to keep his head up and was trying to scare a few of the people watching..

he was obviously an awful person. but being from texas, where half the lethal injections of the U.S. are done...

im completely and utterly against the death penatly. no matter what. why not let someone feel guilty for the rest of their life, locked in an 8 x 10 prison cell?

I don't think they should have done what they did to Tookie. People seem to overlook the fact that he is still human and humans make mistakes.

Personally, I don't believe in the death penalty and I think gangs are stupid and a cry for attention. Tookie didn't have a good childhood like most kids should and I don't know what its like to live in that kind of neighborhood where violence is held high, but I do know that Tookie was just trying to survive then.

There was no proof that he killed someone, so I don't know what to say when it comes to that but 'Maybe he did, Maybe he didn't.' People just look on the outside of things and say 'Yeah, he's just another poor azz black kid that shot people and ran around like he was crazy. We'll give him the boot and go on with the rest of our lives.'

To end it, I think they just should have let him live the rest of his life in prison. That penalty was just out of line.

Last I checked not every human made the mistake of killing 4 people point blank.

Really? You walk around the entire world, shook their hand and asked, 'Have you ever made a mistake by killing 4 people?'

...........

Didn't think so.


Tookie was raised in a neighborhood where people beat other people, possibly for fun. If he was taught to do that to survive then so be it, form of self defense.

If that was even so, did you ask him why he killed them?

.........

Didn't think that either.

HOW ON EARTH CAN KILLING FOUR PEOPLE POINT BLANK BE CONSIDERED SELF DEFENSE?!

lol. Someone getting angry?

You want an example? I'll give you one.

Some one points a gun at you and threatens to kill you. Naturally, you have one to and its an even trade.

Who's life you gonna give up? Yours or his?

*sigh* Pisses me off when someone judges without knowing the background of that person.

And I take it you know the background of Mr. Tookie? You know how he lived, what he did, and even possible his favorite color?

It "pisses me off" at how naive people are.

i'd like to remind you not to double post, just use the edit button.

and i'd also like to point out that humans do make mistakes, but they must be punished for them if they are to learn from it.

Can you learn from something you're killed over?

Yeah, I actually do. I've see the movie about his life, 'Redemption'. You should see it some time.

I've also read articles that were about him.

______________

^ Yeah, but put him to death?! That was a bit over the top, in my opinion. If it were you, you'd probably be trembling in your shoes. No one wants to die like that.

^ just because a movie says frodo threw the ring into mount doom doens't mean it's true.

how do you know he was afraid of death? the great tookie, co-founder of the crips, afraid of something as petty as death?

no, i think you're projecting your fear of death onto others.







no, but others may learn from example.

For one, have you ever heard of fiction and non fiction?

Secondly, can you tell the difference between the two?

And I never said that Tookie himself was afraid of death. You're turning my words around.

Obviously not, seeing as we are still having to resort to the death penalty. If someone is killing multiple others, do you think they care if they die? Just like you said - him, afraid of death? If he supposedly killed someone, do you think that he is afraid of his own death?

Those who kill others have something different about them. Their minds are working much differently than you and I. Personally, I couldn't ever bring myself to kill someone. I can barely hurt someone without feeling incredibly bad, no matter the motive. I simply couldn't let myself do that, just like I couldn't bring myself to steal from a store. It's not me. My mind doesn't work in a way that allows myself to do that.

Murderers don't have a problem with killing others. Their minds work differently than mine. They need help fitting into a society where we don't kill others, because they have a mind that does not fit in with the rules and guidelines of our society. Setting any punishment, much less their own death, is not going to prevent this from happening. The only thing that can prevent it is catching the difference sooner and trying to help the person early on.

But, anyway - let's not turn this into the death penalty thread. :P

and there is quite a bit of difference between fact and nonfiction.

This example has nothing to do w/ Tookie. None of the four people he killed had guns. He shot one in the back twice. He was committing robberies at the time of the killings. Self-defense had nothing to do with his actions.

... You saw a movie (not a documentary), based your opinions upon a movie, and asked someone if he knew the difference between fiction and non-fiction?

No one wants to die from getting shot by a gang leader either, but four people did in Tookie's case.

There are people who cannot pick and choose how they die. However, there are people— like Tookie, who know how to kill and recognize all the consequences, but do it anyway. He put people to death, FOUR in fact, and instigated similar acts of violence by co-founding Crisp. Giving him death is not over the top, in my opinion, it's justice.

If it were me, I wouldn't kill four people in cold blood so I don't have to "tremble" in my shoes. Logic is wonderful, why don't these killers use it?

says the guy that has no idea what so ever what prison is like...

Well, let see, you kill people and you go to a place where other criminals, who are most likely your friends, or people who share the same interest as you, hang out. The place has got recreation and sports, a library, opportunities to continue your education, though you have to do community work, you can relax to cable television since some prisons allow subscription. Although there are problems like prison gangs, I'm almost positive that a legend like Tookie Williams don't have much to worry about, unless they're rival gangs. Even if the latter is the case, I'm sure his life experience have taught him the proverbial "you reap what you sow".



edition: added "who are most likely your friends, or people who share the same interest as you".

This post has been edited by Spirited Away: Dec 14 2005, 11:48 PM

you forgot about the part where the other inmates take turns playing buttdarts with you without you having to drop the soap

Are you telling me that someone at Tookie's legend status would suffer the same? I think not. Actually, it sounds like Tookie would have been the one throwing darts.

^well why don't u go to jail for 20+ years and see if u actually enjoy it. nobody wants to be in there, nobody chooses to be in prison. yah u get all that fun stuff u just listed but only one thing that isn't present makes it all hell: freedom.