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Free Tookie?
let me post
post Nov 27 2005, 07:57 PM
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On December 13th 2005, Stan Tookie Williams will be excuted.

QUOTE
Stan was the co-founder in 1971 of the Los Angeles Crips gang. In 1981 he was convicted of murdering four people during two robberies and sentenced to death row at San Quentin State Prison. Stan deeply regrets his gang involvement but has always maintained his innocence of these crimes.

Stanley "Tookie" Williams receives no money for having written the Tookie Speaks Out series and Life in Prison. He is donating proceeds to several non-profit organizations, including Mothers Against Gang Wars, located in South Central Los Angeles, California. All donations and grants given to The Institute For Prevention Of Youth Violence, a nonprofit entity, will go toward funding a diverse group of programs that will assist children in becoming responsible, successful and self-confident people.


My question is - Should Governor Schwarzenegger grant him clemency? In what situation should the Governor grant clemency?


------------


If your interested, here's a site dedicated to saving Tookie. http://www.savetookie.org/index.html
 
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technicolour
post Dec 12 2005, 07:15 PM
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He's claiming he's been set up...
 
*RiC3xBoy*
post Dec 12 2005, 07:20 PM
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Hmm....I guess no clemency

Schwarzenegger Denies Clemency For Former Gang Leader.
 
technicolour
post Dec 12 2005, 07:59 PM
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show me a garden thats bursting to life
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^ DAMN! you beat me.

No clemency.
 
*RiC3xBoy*
post Dec 12 2005, 08:44 PM
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QUOTE(Kristinaa @ Dec 12 2005, 5:59 PM)
^ DAMN! you beat me.
*

Always a pleasure. biggrin.gif
 
*kryogenix*
post Dec 12 2005, 10:05 PM
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Riots tonight.
 
*RiC3xBoy*
post Dec 12 2005, 10:16 PM
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I heard LAPD has been getting some anonymous phone calls from gang members that if Tookie dies, they would be dishing out some damage.
 
KrunkMuzik
post Dec 12 2005, 11:24 PM
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I think they should free him..but too late. He's scheduled to die midnight today. They should stop death row. He should just be sentenced for life.
 
sadolakced acid
post Dec 12 2005, 11:43 PM
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life in prision is very cushy.

if i'm ever homeless and know i can't get death row, i'll rob a bank.

get away- you're rich.

get caught- free hotel forever. don't have to work if you're a murderer, cus they won't trust you with tools.

sounds like a nice retirement plan for gang members.
 
yo pusha
post Dec 12 2005, 11:48 PM
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i made an error in the topic title, i meant "save tookie"?

i dont believe in the death penalty
i dont believe tookie has "changed" either
i do believe tookie killed the 4 people

should tookie be punished for starting the crips? well he was sentenced to prison because he killed 4 people, not because he founded the crips. i do believe he killed those 4 people, probably did more bad things that he wasnt convicted for.

but isnt jail supposed to be for rehabilitation and punishment? although i dont believe tookie "changed" i believe he will do more good alive than dead. however that is not why i dont want him to be executed. i just dont believe in the death penalty. i hope that makes sense
 
hi-C
post Dec 13 2005, 01:07 AM
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QUOTE(RiC3xBoy @ Dec 12 2005, 7:20 PM)
Hmm....I guess no clemency

Schwarzenegger Denies Clemency For Former Gang Leader.
*


Yeah, and the only reason why he hasn't been granted clemency is because Schwarzenegger says Tookie won't apologize. If there's enough evidence to back up his claim that he was set up by an acquaintance, I understand why Williams isn't apologizing. If I was convicted for something I didn't do, I wouldn't apologize either. I would feel sympathy for the families of those killed, but I wouldn't apologize. And then to be nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize, and get a President's Call to Service Award from Bush and not be granted clemency on the basis that he's hasn't reformed...I don't agree with Schwarzenegger at all.
 
Tribal J_Rome
post Dec 13 2005, 02:09 AM
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QUOTE(yo pusha @ Dec 12 2005, 9:48 PM)
but isnt jail supposed to be for rehabilitation and punishment? although i dont believe tookie "changed" i believe he will do more good alive than dead. however that is not why i dont want him to be executed. i just dont believe in the death penalty. i hope that makes sense
*


word. i never believed in the death penalty either, i think criminals should be stuck to rot in jail for the rest of their lives. plus there's always that possibility that you kill an innocent person.
 
HongKongDong
post Dec 13 2005, 02:54 AM
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There are no definities in life...killing really shouldnt breed more killing. We dont know...but all i know is...tookie's clemency wasnt accepted for a reason, tookie is obviously supposed to be killed as everything happens for a reason..who knows maybe the afterlife has some positive use for tookie, or if you prefer he'll just rot in the ground. Its a "what if?" .What if and what if could be good and bad, but "what if" isnt going to happen, the death penalty is going to happen and whether people agree with it or not..thats whats going to happen. Guess it's gonna make sense later on. I just dont know, and the death penalty is just trivial to me, but theres nothing we can do about it. Tookie's fate has already caught up with him, and its his time to go.
 
lakerfever2476
post Dec 13 2005, 03:19 AM
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I kind of think Tookie has it the easy road. I know it sucks dying and everything, but look at how he gets to die; peacefully in his sleep. And is it true they get a last meal and everything? Look at how his victims died. With a gunshot.
 
HongKongDong
post Dec 13 2005, 03:27 AM
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The tragedy of all this, its gonna be endlessly repeated. Then people are willing to take anothers life because of lust and their desire to get revenge, bending everything to their will to get their way. Its a thrill intense enough to make a guy shudder. He was a man enslaved to ecstacy. Co-founder of the crips charged for murder of 4 people. Things are just gonna shake and everythings gonna spark. In the end,it just means another grusome party.

But its done and over with, Tookie should be long dead by now.

^Peace? You think hes gonna die peacefully? It doesn't matter how a person dies, a person not ready to accept their death will never die in peace.
 
lakerfever2476
post Dec 13 2005, 01:41 PM
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^ Well of course, no one dies "in peace". Maybe I used the wrong words? But Tookie died resting in a padded "dentist's chair" while his victims died with gunshots. You see my point?
 
sadolakced acid
post Dec 13 2005, 07:55 PM
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who's to say he won't die in peace except himself?


have you ever died? have you ever been executed? then how can you proclaim to know how it will feel?
 
illumineering
post Dec 13 2005, 08:06 PM
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QUOTE(lakerfever2476 @ Dec 13 2005, 2:41 PM)
^ Well of course, no one dies "in peace". Maybe I used the wrong words? But Tookie died resting in a padded "dentist's chair" while his victims died with gunshots. You see my point?
*


No. I don't see your point at all. Peace is an individual's choice. It's certainly not dictated by a chair or any other thing.
 
*kryogenix*
post Dec 13 2005, 08:07 PM
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I just read more on Mr. Tookie. It says he continued to participate in the crips even behind bars and would not give cops information on gang activities because he didn't want to be a snitch. I guess he hasn't changed as much as I thought he had.
 
*RiC3xBoy*
post Dec 13 2005, 08:11 PM
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Well Kyro, he claims he wont snitch because he doesn't ever want to harm another human being, even if it is a gang member. It just depends how you perceive it.

Also, he did not have a last meal. He says he didn't do it and having a last meal of whatever he wants its just basically admitting he did it.

Another issue I think in which criminals get the death penalty is because of tax payer's money going into providing food for criminals.
QUOTE(lakerfever2476 @ Dec 13 2005, 1:19 AM)
Look at how his victims died. With a gunshot.
*

Unless you have real proof he actually did it, I don't think you should going around claiming he killed them.
 
yo pusha
post Dec 13 2005, 09:27 PM
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QUOTE(kryogenix @ Dec 13 2005, 5:07 PM)
It says he continued to participate in the crips even behind bars and would not give cops information on gang activities because he didn't want to be a snitch.
*

or because he wanted to stay alive? ermm.gif although i dont believe tookie "changed", i do believe that a man could reform and not snitch. those 2 things are not dependant on each other

QUOTE
Unless you have real proof he actually did it, I don't think you should going around claiming he killed them.

dumbest statement ever. unless you have real proof that he didnt do it, then just exit this thread. smh. who has real proof that he didn't do it? tookie has been waiting on death row for more than 20 years, and his lawyers got 20 years to try and prove his innocence, and they couldn't. the only people who know if he is guilty or not are tookie himself, his associates, and the victims. and god i guess, if you believe in that kind of thing.

QUOTE
not be granted clemency on the basis that he's hasn't reformed.

yall act like a governor grants clemency the majority of the time. please. its not arnolds fault, he is just agreeing with the numerous courts that rejected williams. the last governor to grant clemency in the state of california i believe was ronald reagan. the last president that was not pro-death penalty was also reagan. and that was 1967. if tookie was granted clemency, then every immate could start writing books and "reforming" just so they wouldnt die.
 
Spirited Away
post Dec 13 2005, 09:41 PM
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QUOTE(sheridan_whiteside @ Dec 12 2005, 6:27 PM)
So who gets to kill the guy with the needle?
*

http://www.createblog.com/forums/index.php...=80797&hl=death

Differences, argue them there.
 
*kryogenix*
post Dec 13 2005, 09:43 PM
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QUOTE(RiC3xBoy @ Dec 13 2005, 8:11 PM)
[b]Well Kyro, he claims he wont snitch because he doesn't ever want to harm another human being, even if it is a gang member. It just depends how you perceive it.


Even if the information he gives could prevent the gang member from harming another human being?
 
d0t0rg
post Dec 13 2005, 10:43 PM
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QUOTE(illumineering @ Nov 28 2005, 12:18 PM)
He's an unrepentant former gang leader and murderer.  He should never get out of prison.  I'm not a supporter of the death penalty, so I think it's reasonable that he spends the rest of his natural life in prison.
*

He can still send out orders if he was alive.
 
lakerfever2476
post Dec 13 2005, 11:07 PM
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QUOTE(RiC3xBoy @ Dec 13 2005, 8:11 PM)
Also, he did not have a last meal. He says he didn't do it and having a last meal of whatever he wants its just basically admitting he did it.


*


Well, didn't he have the choice of getting a last meal? _dry.gif
 
*RiC3xBoy*
post Dec 14 2005, 01:20 AM
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QUOTE(yo pusha @ Dec 13 2005, 7:27 PM)
dumbest statement ever. unless you have real proof that he didnt do it, then just exit this thread. smh. who has real proof that he didn't do it? tookie has been waiting on death row for more than 20 years, and his lawyers got 20 years to try and prove his innocence, and they couldn't. the only people who know if he is guilty or not are tookie himself, his associates, and the victims. and god i guess, if you believe in that kind of thing.
*

Dumbest statement ever? Yeah.....exactly how is it dumb?

Just because his lawyers couldn't prove his innocense, doesn't mean he did it. I could write my name your homework and claim I did and all the people in the world might believe me, but it doesn't make me right.
QUOTE(kryogenix @ Dec 13 2005, 7:43 PM)
Even if the information he gives could prevent the gang member from harming another human being?
*

I don't recall someone asking him this, so I guess you would have to ask him yourself, but I guess its a little late.
 
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