How in the world you see that as racist I don't know. Thats the last thing I am.

Never said that there were no white people who couldn't afford to go to college, you're taking my words and twisting them around to fit your fancy. My point is that African-Americans are trying, just as well as other races, to get a good college education because that would be considered breaking new ground. Go out to a big industry and count how many blacks you see compared to whites. Not too many. Count how many blacks you see on the t.v. commercials. Not too many. African Americans deserve just as much as any other race.

African Americans don't have the resources as whites do and its very much appreciated that this country has taken it upon itself to reach out to those communities. People are always placing stereotypes on blacks and it makes it hard to overcome that obstacle, or stereotype.

you need to think of it less as blacks, and more as impoverished.

rich blacks usually have no problem getting into college.

african americans don't deserve just as much as any other race. but they are just as capable as any other race. counter discrimination, and counter economic factors for everyone. that's what's fair. not adding 3 points to everyone's application who is black.

Personally, I love each every color God sent to the Earth and I could hardly care what a person looks or acts like. But I half agree with you and I half don't.

Not to look down on the black race, or any as that matter, I can't deny how the world presents itself. Even though the there is a rise in African American education and them finding a high paying jobs, you don't see alot of rich black people. ((Besides singers/rappers, actors and actresses)) And of course they wouldn't have a problem getting into college because they have the money but they're not considered to be the poor or unable.

But okay, I have you, not just blacks, but the indigent. They still don't have the resources as the rich, or upper middle class do. They would have to work twice as hard to get into a good college, and even some aren't recognized. On the other hand, the rich person would have no problem because of her connections. She'll get into a good college, well educated or not, just because she comes from a prominent family. Its all about looks and background here in America.

see, the problem is believe that there aren't that many rich blacks is because they're discriminated against.

the reason there aren't as many rich blacks are:

1- there aren't as many blacks
2- more blacks are stuck in teh poverty cycle than whites (the majority)

so, fix the source of the problem, not the symptom.

provide good education to children of the poor. let them break the cycle. america is about being able to rise to the top by your own skill, not because there's discrimination against you and so the government helps you rise.

Well of course. But I agree with you on your point. But when you say, 'there aren't as many blacks'. Do you mean popularity wise or rich income wise?

And yes, good education is the key to the problem. But discrimination is still practiced among teachers, which in turn flicks on the students.

Why anyone would discriminate against someone else is beyond me. Beyond the skin, what do you have? Bones and blood, the same structure and color as yours.

^ i mean as a whole. they are, after all, a minority. it's expected that you should see fewer of them in all areas.

and discrimination fades generation to generation. it's gradual, but it's fading.

well, about blacks at least.

for hispanics, it's only beginning. there are efforts to head it off, but i'm not sure that will be enough...

It depends on where you live. Where I live, you see more blacks and hispanics than you do whites.

And you're right, it is fading. Until I saw those 13 year olds the other day, I didn't even think about racism. To me, it doesn't exist. But it isn't my world, just my life.

Yeah, Hispanics are the next, I suppose.

Having any month is stupid is what I am trying to get accross. I dont think that just because there is a black one there has to be a white one. I think that in the world we live in today you can have a history month devoted just to blacks. If it were the other way around it wouldn't fly. Pretty soon there is going to be a gay history month. Or like what was said before a latino history month. We only have 12 months in the year somebody is going to get left out. Then somebody's feelings are going to get hurt and the ACLU will get involved. It is really stupid. I guess the whole point I am trying to get accross is that we are americans we shouldn't see colors we shouldn't make one color better then others. We have our own culture. We have our own language one that is madeup of words from as many different cultures as the people we have in ours. We are really a mixing pot. But the problems begin when you have muslim women getting drivers liscense photos with their faces covered because it is against there religion. Or the fact that we have to have spanish menus at Mcdonalds. Why cant they just learn English.Why is it that we have to continually change our culture to fit in everybody else. I mean how can we take under god out of the pledge of allegance because it offends some one. If that offends you don't say it or go somewhere else. I am getting off topic a little but. The only cultural recognition there should be in this country is American culture. Otherwise you start offending the people who are left out.

That encourages equality how exactly?


You see Asians even less, but for the most part, we don't care in that aspect.



What do you mean by "rich" people. You do know that only 5% of Americans make over $100,000/year? How many rich people can there be compared to the other 95%? 70% of Americans are living paycheck by paycheck. Therefore, I'm a little confused about your definition of rich.

I'm part of the lower middle class majority and I do have to work hard to keep myself in college. I work almost two jobs and commute to school. However, I worked hard enough to receive two merit scholarships and know where to ask for grant money, but it's no secret though! Millions and millions of students apply for financial aid each year. You can go to a good school with financial aid and hardwork. Why compare yourself to people who were born into wealth? If they were born poor, they would still have to work hard to get themselves to school. A person can't help if he/she was born into wealth. If a person's race is the only thing keeping him from a good school, nowdays, he can sue the butt off of that school.

I'm not going to disagree with you about a rich person being able to go to a good school by connection alone. But let me tell you, connection does not always keep a person in a good school, good grades and hardwork does. By the way, networking is good no matter if a person is rich or poor.



Allow me to ask you a question.
You're 40 years old and need to work hard labor jobs to keep food on the table each night. Are you going to have time to learn English, or are you just going to wing it and learn whatever you can, whether it be one or two catch phrases or three words?
The majority of older, first generation immigrants do not, in fact, have time to learn English. That is why they only work jobs that require the least English and that is why there are companies and industries that cater to this population. It may be easy for a young kid like you to learn another language, but how about we send your parents to China with no money in their pockets and we'll see if they have time and the finances to learn Chinese.

And also, if McDonald is offending you because it has a spanish menu, why don't you go elsewhere?

i dont like this debate because your basically telling black people to their face they shouldnt have a month. which can lead to be.... insulting. without people even realizing it. nor meaning to. i dont think black history month was made to piss off white people, or make them feel that way. but some seem to take it that way, which leads to the reason why this debate was made in the first place.

First of all noboday sent them here. Like your great question, sending my family to china all though it makes a good point. Doesn't work. These people come here to have a better living. Part of being a citizen of this country should be speaking the langauge, and yes american english is one of the hardest to learn. But if they come here they should at least attempt to learn english. Immigrants made due before 2005 with out us changing everything to allow them comfort. I mean when my grandfather came here, he didn't have the luxary of not having to learn english to make it here. They didn't look very kindly on him but he speaks better english then most people I come accross nowadays. Plus he has greater respect for this country because of it. It isn't susposed to be easy moving to a foreign country. Learning a new langauge. If your going to move to china you speak chinese not make them learn English. That is BS if you ask me. The fact that my kids have to take Spanish in school. Instead of forcing them to take english.
I was born in this country, I served in this war, and I am not going anywhere.

Using that logic, yes, they did come to America for a "better living", why give them a hard time simply because they do not have the means to learn English? About your grandfather, did he fit the description I gave? Did he work to put food on the table and still have time to study English or wing it and learned whatever he can from conversing with others?

I used the example of China in a language aspect, not one that you can say your parents didn't ask to go to China. And you seem to not understand that American culture is actually comprised of many subcultures from groups of people who came from all over the world. That means, whatever the case, the government as well as businesses should cater to these subcultures if they want to profit monetary wise, but also societal wise. It's not logical to compare American culture with the Chinese' while the Chinese population is mainly consisted of... CHINESE.

I agree, everyone should attempt to learn English, at the very least, but not everyone can learn in the end. You do not seem to realize that there are immigrants who are illiterate even in their own language and came to America for "better living". Trust me when I say, when you live in a country that gives you the freedom that your homeland lacks, you'd respect that country, too. Are you saying that non-English speaking Americans do not have respect for this country? If so, I'd like statistics for that.


Then don't complain about Spanish menus just as you expect people not to complain about "under God". Simple solution, right?

I said

Not
Not even implying it. Most foriegners for the most part have greater respect for this country then those of us who were born here and have never seen the hardships these people go thru. I have, I do understand, do you? I understand why they come here it is the same reason my grandparents did. My grandfather came here and worked almost three jobs to keep food on the table for my father and my grandmother. Alot like the immagrants today do. He never graduated high school. He isn't particularly smart either. But he never asked for hand outs or accepted them.Still picked up english on his spare time. He had to, to support his family.

What is this Time is what is needed not finances. To learn a langauge enought to get by. Yes put in that situation it would be hard to learn english. But why not attempt it at least. You never addressed the point of why my kids have to learn spanish in school. I mean are the next generation immigrants still having no time to learn english. I know this sounds mean. But why must my kids have to learn spanish when I live in a predominately english speaking enviroment.
I have stated already that this country is a mixing pot. Whats not to understand about it. T
he goverment and buisness should have to cater to subcultures? Why is that. So I guess your cool with them sending jobs overseas to huh? As long as big buisness prospers and the goverment is profitable. Just because the goverment and big buisness prosper doesn't make it right.
I never compared china to america. I don't know why your implying that I did. I used it as an example you can switch china out if it offends you. We can change it to France. You don't go to france and make them speak english.


This country was founded by people with christian beliefs. Not for Spanish menus at McDonalds. Oh and by the way I have nothing against the spanish. There are Japanese menus in Cali also. I was using it as a variable. God is apart of this country. Even though some would like to think he isn't. Why are we so scared to offend people. Allahu Akbar (God is great) in Arabic script of the Iraqi Flag.

What part if "if so" did you not understand? Also, it is implied because it was not clear why you'd say that your grandfather have more respect of the country. That is why, the question, and an "if so" followed.

What part are you asking me to understand? My life story involves growing up on the streets of a country that suffered many unrests from a civil war and coming to the US for relief. You cannot compare your grandparents, who were young enough to easily adapt to American society and who even have the chance to go to high school for goodness sakes, to those who are in their thirties or too old to learn the language! That's completely illogical! It is also scientifically proven that children and young adults have an easier time learning different languages than older adults. Smarts have very little to do with this.


Read again, please, and read the italicized words that said "language aspect" in my previous post. That is comparison of languages, NOT CULTURE.


Wrong. Finances play an important roll, side by side with time, in learning a language. If you have the time, but not the money, you would worry more about going to work to get more money for your family than to learn. That is why some kids do not want to go to college. Their families may be more pressed for money so their time is used to work for money. Likewise, if I am 40 and my family needs money, instead of investing time in learning English, I rather use my free time work for money.

Your kids DO NOT HAVE TO LEARN spanish. They have a choice to learn Japanese, French, Chinese, German... etc. Also, they are learning a foreign language because it is a VERY beneficial thing to do and thus a part of one's education. They are living in a country ruled by subcultures, and they are living in a world where globalizing is bonding countries together. Why do you think Europeans require that their students learn a second language? Why do you think more and more countries add foreign languages on to their teaching curriculum? If you'r still confused on this subject matter, let me ask you why a child learn the maths, or the sciences. I will tie your answer to why a child must learn a foreign language.


You failed to understand why businesses like McD's have Spanish menus, and that is why I doubt your overall understanding. It's something called Target Marketing, which speaks for itself.


I already answered this in my post. If should cater to subcultures because profits monetarily and benefits society. Yes, in fact, I am fine with outsourcing. Please refer to this thread: http://www.createblog.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=18869
It definitely sounds right when something benefits everyone in the long run. Take an intro economics course and learn why. For your information, I've taken intermdiate college level courses before I made my decision to support outsourcing on some levels. If you'd like to debate me on this, please know at least the basics of economics, such as demand and supply; supply especially.



Indeed, you can also substitute China for any other language. I am implying that you are comparing CULTURES, not language and that is the illogical point I wanted to call out. You were saying that if one goes to China, he or she will learn Chinese and that much is obvious BECAUSE OF CULTURE differences. Chinese culture consists of different Chinese subcultures. American culture consists of European, Asian, Latin, African subcultures... etc. Thus, the two cannot be compared language wise.



Please refer to threads like: "under God" or the Ten Commandments.

The country was founded on the basis of religious freedom, not the freedom to serve God and only God. It was also founded under LIBERTY and JUSTICE, as promised in the CONSTITUTION and the pledge. Where is justice when a business cannot cater to its target market?

You're also welcome to have a look at winter holiday thread and the you can't have it both ways thread. All your questions have been answered in those threads, if not by me, than by many others.



I hate quoting myself because it seems vain, but there you have it.

The difference between America and Iraq if obvious and it's sad that I even have to point this out. The drafted Iraqi Constitution clearly dismisses any other religion aside from Islam. Our Constitution, however, promises religious freedom.

Islam is the official religion of Iraq, Christianity, however, is NOT the official religion of the United States of America.

Okay I can kinda see what your saying. It makes more sense than I wanted it to. LOL I guess when you grow up being fed one thing your beliefs and way of thinking is kind of shrowded by that. You make some great points. I agree with you even though I dont want to, cause your kinda insulting. Have a great Christmas or what not.

Clark

QUOTE

Count how many blacks you see on the t.v. commercials. Not too many.

Just wanted to point out: I just turned the TV on for 10 minutes and I counted:

11 black people, 6 white people, 2 Hispanic people, and one Asian person.

So..your uh..little statement..really doesn't work so much.

Sorry that I came off as insulting. I was insulted at the remark about why can't immigrants just learn English and was angry and may have used angry words. Merry Christmas to you, too.

Layin' down teh hammer...

Fcuk Black History Month, Fcuk White History Month.

Why do we (black people) need a month to celebrate our history and heritage? Why can't everyday be Black History Month? What sense does it make to limit a celebration to 28 days?

By arguing about there not being a White History Month, you're a total jackass because you fail to see that racial matter that lies beneath the surface is one race trying to compensate for not being consider equal. Anyone who supports the idea of a given motnh for an entire culture supports the notion that there still is a dominant race.

^there is. White people

please. just. shut. up.

ok.


im done.


actually, not quite.

white people are not the "dominant" race. we can argue that the chinese are (ill argue this before i argue that white people have control over the world..i dont believe it.)

and if you stand by this, give support for it.

in america they are^. when the very religion that this country is based on (christianity) and the main person we worsip (jesus) is depicted as caucasion, without any evidence that he is, thats when you can get a little picture of whos dominant.

Hmmm oh but look at that. Pictures of Jesus were made before America even existed! Blame white America!

MAYBE the pictures of Jesus depict him as being white because when they were first made, ALL THE CHRISTIANS WERE WHITE. MAYBE, just MAYBE that would be a logical explanation. The Africans weren't Christian; they had tribal customs. The Asians weren't Christian until European countries went all imperialistic on their asses. Eastern European countries, generally, starting out, were not Christian. Only Europe. And guess what race lived in Europe before they went all imperialistic on the world?.....WHITE PEOPLE.

one could argue whites are the inferior race because they have apparent control of the world.

evil, corruption, etc.

although, the argument is still valide.

i wanted to go on a rant, but i didnt think it'd be right for the jew to go off on a rant about jesus.

you're jewish right?