accept it yes
respecting it depends on the case

im not trying to say that im overall a better person than a religous person (thats an opinion) i do believe however that i am a free-thinker because i use reason and logic instead of beliefs and opinions which drive any major religion.

Actually, not_your_average, you've stated a common misconception. In regards to theism, you are either an Atheist or a Theist. Agnosticism is a theory of knowledge. Look it up sometime, and stop using it in debates on religion if you can't use it right. If you don't absolutely, 100% believe in that a god exists, you are an Atheist.

From Wikipedia, because I'm tired of explaining this to people:
"Agnosticism, focusing on what can be known, is an epistemological position (dealing with the nature and limits of human knowledge); while atheism and theism are ontological positions (a branch of metaphysics that deals with what types of entities exist). Agnosticism is not to be confused with a view specifically opposing the doctrine of gnosis and Gnosticism—these are religious concepts that are not generally related to agnosticism.

Agnosticism is distinct from strong atheism (also called positive atheism), which denies the existence of any deities. However, the more general variety of atheism, weak atheism (also called negative atheism, and sometimes neutral atheism), professes only a lack of belief in a god or gods, which is not equivalent to but is compatible with agnosticism.

Agnostics may claim that it isn't possible to have absolute or certain spiritual knowledge or, alternatively, that while certainty may be possible, they personally have no such knowledge. In both cases, agnosticism involves some form of skepticism towards religious statements."

Don't take the above as the absolute answer either, there are plenty of other definitions that you should look through before you come to a conclusion on what agnosticism is, and what points you can and cannot use it for.

All I'm asking is that you know what you're talking about before you say it.

deleted.

I am not saying you are either. I am saying, that as a free-thinker, who have faith in humanity, it is logical, and rational to believe that turning to religion is something that humans do because it is the decision that best suited him/her. To say that the decision is 'sad' is illogical when you have so much faith in the human mind.

So, according to that, agnosticism focuses on what can exist, and atheism focuses on what does exist?

It's still useable with regards to theism; it would mean, then, that a person who is agnostic (in regards to theism) holds the belief that knowledge of deities cannot be known; therefore, such a person is "noncommittal" or "unconvinced" about religion. From the Wikipedia: "Agnosticism is the philosophical view that the truth values of certain claims—particularly theological claims regarding the existence of God, gods, or deities—are unknown, inherently unknowable, or incoherent, and therefore, (some agnostics may go as far to say) irrelevant to life. The term and the related agnostic were coined by Thomas Henry Huxley in 1869, and are also used to describe those who are unconvinced or noncommittal about the existence of deities as well as other matters of religion." [1] Agnosticism can be used in a broader philosophical sense, but since religion could be considered a subset of philosophy in general, it can easily apply to a discussion about religion and a person's stance towards religious deities.

Correct, on the terms that you're applying agnosticism to human knowledge alone. Agnosticism is not a religious choice, like theism and atheism. People commonly misuse it because they hold a negative connotation of atheism, but don't want to be known as a Theist.

It can, however, be used to describe one's stance towards the existence of a god or gods.

Yes, of course, that was the original intent, even. I just didn't want people to sling around the word as an answer to everything.

Ah, I see what you're saying now.


That was the context in which I was using the term 'agnosticism.'

No. That's not free-thinking. That's the "I'm right, you're wrong" mentality.

Christianity is not wrong. If your mind works in the way that [actual] Christians do, then that would seem to make most sense. It is logical, just, not to you and me. To those who strongly believe in a God and/or Gods, that's what makes most sense. It works and connects to them. Just because you don't agree with it or just because it seems ridiculous to you (as it does to me), that still doesn't make it wrong. It's merely differing mindsets.

This is what you have yet to understand. Just because you may think differently than someone else does not make them any less intelligent.

Have you ever thought that maybe they are the strong ones? Try thinking about it. I mean, we don't have the strength to take that leap of faith and believe in something that might be wrong, simply on chance. I know I couldn't believe in something based solely on faith. That's why I don't. It's not in me to follow something I have no evidence of. I don't have a strong enough mind to resist the alternate theory and take that leap.

Look at things from another point of view before you go off calling others weak and stupid simply for having differing opinions. They are just as equal as you (if they know what they're talking about). They just are not you.

it is actually not logical at all to educated people. Yes their false hope in god gives them a sort of strength because they believe that go has their back but, in the end, this will backfire when they begin to rely on him too much.
O and, since you haven't read some of my previos posts, i was a devout christian not too long ago so i still have somewhat of an idea of their mind-set. But, now that i can see without religion clouding my judgment, i have recognized that religion gives you misconceptions and takes the thinking out of things.

Religion does not have the capacity to give or take anything from anyone. It is the choice of an individual to accept or reject anything that is a function of a belief. Additionally, the ability to use one's mind exists regardless of personal beliefs regarding religion or anything else.

Because you chose to "give away" your individuality to religion, you can't claim it back because you reject religion now. It never took it in the first place. All you've done is move along the same continuum of choice. Nothing is fundamentally changed with regard to how you view the nature of power, choice or free will. The nature of your argument throughout this thread is illogical.

That is because you are you, and not someone else. Other people can think differently than you. Stop discrediting anything anyone else to say and thinking it's wrong without even taking the time to really listen and comprehend. Just because someone thinks differently than you does not make it wrong, stupid, incompetent, etc.

It's not logical to you. Fine. But what makes you think you're so incredibly educated? From what I've seen, you're rebellious and stubborn, yes, but in no way does that make you far more intelligent than any other person, much less any religious person I've met. You are the same age as me, though I seem to be comprehending more.

Religion is not only based on hope either. People believe it because it makes sense to them. No one would really believe in something if it made no sense to them. People follow Christianity because it provides answers that the alternative cannot. Some people don't need those answers, because what is provided of the alternative is satisfactory information; people like you and me. However, some people are searching for answers, and if religion is the answer provided, it will be understood more than nothing would be.

Do you know anything about any other religion besides Christianity? Do you know what belief system they are based on? Do you know what guidelines they follow? Do you know why they follow them?

... well, isn't that the most illogical thing I've ever heard from a free-thinker.

There are doctors, philosophers, famed writers, and so many more people—credited with intelligence, who believe in God. Are you telling me that they are all uneducated?

Disco Infiltrator was that post for me or the person above me?

Person above you.

to the person who started this topic..vash----:

once again, i will say that you are very ignorant of other people's beliefs, religions, cultures...

before attacking everyone who is even slightly religious, try to understand where they're coming from.

i certainly understand where you're coming from. i am not religious at all, and yet i completely disagree with you, because i understand other's opinions. i know why they believe what they do, and i respect that.

not everyone is you. every person is unique. try to grasp that.

I personally don't like to get into religion that much.

Whenever you get into religion, it always seems like you have to be part of a "team."

I mean, seriously, look at how many people are killed because of religion.

Fanatics...

I'll stop here.

I'm just going to say this the way my dad always said it

"If you don't believe in God, you BETTER be right"

Meaning that if you spend your life here on Earth not believing in God....when you die ....what if by some chance there IS a god?.......& everything about Heaven & Hell IS true?

And what if there isn't? You just spent your whole life basing what you did off of a fictional person's wishes, hoping to go somewhere after you die when you're only gonna rot in the ground. That would kinda suck. Spent your life thinking you were higher than others because you followed someone who didn't even exist. People make fun of others who are really into Lord of the Rings or something, and they wish they could be in that world, and believe that it could have been true. It's essentially the same way. They base their lives off of it. You think it's ridiculous, but it's the same thing.

Are you saying people should just believe in God because it's "safe"? That wouldn't be real belief anyway. Not everyone believes it. You can't make someone believe it, and they can't make themselves believe it if they don't, in their hearts.

So, your little statement there works both ways.

If we knew what happends after we die, then I'm sure they're wouldn't be all this fuss about religion. But we don't... so we do have all this fuss about religion.

Something will still affect you, even if you didn't know about it, or you don't believe in it.

I beg your pardon i DO NOT think I am better than anyone. & FYI I do not make fun of anyone for their own beliefs or customs of any sort.... even those into things such as Lord of the Rings(which i LOVED) or Harry Potter.

I do not believe in God to "be safe". I believe in God for the sole purpose that I have seen more than one miracle occur after a large group gets together & prays to him. Personally, I choose to believe that the miracles are related to the prayers. I happen to find happiness and bliss in my belief of God & Jesus Christ & I will continue to worship & praise him for the good he's done in my own life and in the lives of my friends & family.

I do not cut you down for your own beliefs, for they are yours, not mine.
I also do NOT seek to "make" people believe in God....I personally COMPLETELY disagree with pushing a belief on anyone, especially a religious belief.

So you don't agree with evangelism?