No, there isn't a need for Christian symbols to be everywhere, but there shouldn't be anything wrong with showing people who see the courthouse to know what our country's laws were based on. I don't think that the Commandments should be shoved down everyone throat. I don't think that at all. But people shouldn't try to hide what our country was based on.

This is somewhat off what we are talking about, but what exactly do you mean by persecuted?

By persecuted, I mean that Christian beliefs are hardly held against the person holding them; he is not punished or harassed for his beliefs.

I think, though, that you are missing my point. It is against the beliefs of the Founding Fathers to have the state advocate a particular religion. That is why there is a separation of church and state. A person is free to hold whatever spiritual beliefs they wish, but the government should not promote one set above another.

The US is not founded solely on Christian beliefs; in fact, most of the law is based on Enlightenment philosophy, some which is decidedly not Christian. Christianity creeps into some parts of law because that is what the Founding Fathers knew. They were not Hindu, Buddhist, Moslem, and so forth, so it would be hard for them to bring that religious thought into law (although there are many concurrent themes in all the major religions). But it is a stretch to say American law is based on Christianity. There are some references to Christianity, but it is much more based on Enlightenment philosophy, if anything, than Christianity; or, at least, the basis cannot be traced solely to Christianity.

Well then, I think I need to resign my position. I have no argue to that. I do have some, but they can't really be proven, and I don't really know enough about this to continue.
I congratulate you, you obviously know what you are talking about. This was a good debate, but I have no facts for me to continue. I thank you.

(this wasn't meant to be sarcastic.)

No. Wrong. This is what I posted in the Ten Commandments thread. Basically, they based everything on the hope for religious freedom. Have fun.



edit> Late to realize debate was already over.

This post has been edited by Spirited Away: Oct 28 2005, 07:38 PM

I dont know how the debate got shifted to the 10 Commandments...they were around for over 2000 years before Christianity originated. Christianity started (obviously) with Christ, and it was Moses who got the 10 Commandments from God...ya know, when they left Egypt and wandered in the desert for 40 years? Yeah, waaayyyy before Christ was even born. To be more accurate, the 10 Commandments would be based more in the Jewish religion, who don't even believe that Jesus Christ was the Messiah. The 10 Commandments don't really have that much to do with Christianity itself. When they were made, kids could be stoned to DEATH for disrespecting their parents...Christianity changed that. Let's try to keep the debate about what it was originally, ok? lol, thnx everybody. Oh btw, disco infiltrator, i absolutely LOVE reading your posts!!! Even if i completely disagree, you're incredibly smart and i love how can change how i feel about things half the time. keep it up!!

Hmmm....thats a tough one

Aw..thanks. Heh.

Hmm, I don't know about you, but I don't think Christians are the only ones not beating their kids.....or the ones who changed this. At all. Just..a point.

Anyway. If anything, I think the constitution is being twisted TOWARDS the Christian right. How is it against Christianity or limiting Christianity at all? I go to school and even my teachers are giving me Christian influences. In my French class, we have every sort of debate possible, even on religion. In Biology last year, we had a Creationism vs. Evolution debate and trust me - there were some people who were definitely trying to fit their evangelism in there. (Also some people who thought they were such good Bible-reading Christians, trying to tell our Bio teacher about Noah's Ark, in turn causing him to whip out a Bible and correct every little detail about their little story. It was really funny. For example, the kids all said the ark was supposed to fit 700 animals, though the Bible said 40. So how is evolution disproved if we have sooo many more then 40 different kinds of animals? Humdeedum..) So, I really don't see how Christianity is trying to be pulled out based on the Constitution.

The theory of evolution isn't learned so that we know history, it is learned so that we may better understand the scientific method of explaining things.


Well, if christianity was understood it shouldnt offend you. Christianity in truth teaches acceptance of all, not just all Christians. To live in a Christian country would be great for anyone. There would be safety, unlocked doors, concern and love for your fellow man. Religion is the only fault i find with Christianity. In the name of religion, there've been men throughout the ages claiming their own justice in the name of God(whichever name they so chose). The ten commandments aren't a threat to anyone, they're a more in depth version of the hammurabi code and other similar writings. It's a historical document. History is neither helped, hindered, or mentioned in the constitution and should therefore be allowed to be posted on any wall, until the day when it's ammended.



The ten commandments are in the Torah. The founders of America were mostly Christians, with very few exceptions. There is no evidence to support your wild claims. Benjamin Franklin was the oldest at the ratification of the Constitution. That 31 year old man saw the quarreling and suggested they pray. All of them prayed and a few days later the constitution was ratified.


The ten commandments is a historical look at law. The courthouse deciphers the intent of the law.



The ACLU and other groups are attacking Christian rights.

The bible did not say 40 kinds. It says clean animals were to be taken by seven's, unclean animals by two's, and fowls of the air by seven's.

Another point, Evangelism isn't wrong. Bible thumping is and there is a huge difference.



That is pretty good; however, the stoning of children for such menial charges is a gross misinterpretation of the Torah, and can be blamed on the religious leaders of the time.



I believe the thinking currently being used today in the assassination of Christianity is contradictory. Tolerance, is what they preach. Yet, they do not tolerate those that preach love. The cause of this is the worship of man's agenda. The only stick in the mud is the loving community of Christ's followers, because of their morality. Morals are the enemy in their eyes. A christian will call clean, clean and unclean, unclean. The attackers would and do call everything slightly soiled. These beliefs combat because of the Christian's inability to tolerate the evil acts of men. Therefore, they are called haters of the cause. The Christian's beliefs aren't under fire, it's the Christian existance. Sounds kind of like the middle east and Israel, doesn't it?

Buddhism teaches the same about acceptance and there is no need to spread the religion as a Christian's need to evangelize. In a Buddhist society, there would no such thing as greed, hatred, and anger...etc, thus, there would be no need for locked doors nor fear for the safety our our families and Man. To live in a Buddhist society would be great for everyone. Even as a religion, Buddhism has never, in history, initiated wars nor been used by man to fight against man. Not many major religions of our time may claim the same peaceful history. The sacred texts of Buddhism are also historical in nature. Why would there be a need to murder if there is no hatred or anger? Why steal, when there is no greed? Why bear false witness against your neighbor when there is no desire to harm?

Though, I can agree with Commandments 5-10, but why 1-4? There isn't a need for them in a religiously free country. There is no point for an Atheist or an Agnostic to suffer the command "Thou shalt have no other gods before me". If the Supreme Court condones it, ALL non-Christians would be guilty of believing otherwise! Why must we suffer this guilt by Christians' standards? And since it would be sacrilege to post only half of the Commandments, there is no need to post them at all.




So was the goal of finding America, on a religious perspective, to make it Christian country, or was to make a religiously free country?

1. They aren't the laws we follow, they are the laws by which our laws are founded. 1-4 have to do with individual choice. You cannot govern thoughts. It's impossible and thus, are not applied in worldly courts.

2.Religiously free country. Not a country without religion. There is a difference.

3.How come government officials aren't free to express themselves? They're free too, are they not?

1) A strong belief by which our laws are founded is "seperation of Church and State". Also, in America, there is no law above the Constitution, spiritual or not, and religious opinions are not to be promoted by the government. These establishments in the law protect what you called "INDIVIDUAL CHOICE". The law cannot govern thoughts, but it may protect them. Though, one thing I'm curious about is calling something a 'commandment', but leave it to individuals to decide to follow the command. And why, if 1-4 are not applied in worldly courts, should they be posted at all?

I should also mention, that to claim that our laws are founded upon the words of God while the Constitution holds no mention of God is very presumptuous.

2) No, indeed. This country has many religions because it was founded on the principle of religious freedom. So again, was the goal of finding America, on a religious perspective, to make it Christian country, or was to make a religiously free country? The answer is obvious.

3) That is the same as asking why are teachers not allowed to give their own political opinions in the classrooms and I'm sure you know the answer already. The laws the government officials swore to protect are those of the Constitution. If government officials are in a position to make America a Christian (or any other religion) country, it would put the Constitution in jepardy. And though they are free to go to church, they may not turn where they work into a church. Some work places do it, if they are a private company.