^^ no im not saying that at all....im not sure if there is a heaven or afterlife...

but are u saying that Ghandi automatically went to hell to suffer for all eternity? is that how it is?

Well, it depends on what faith you follow. Under Christian beliefs, you could be the greatest person that ever lived, but if you didn't get saved, you're gonna burn.

^ wow...then God is truly an evil and cruel being....

*shrug* He just doesn't need anyone who doesn't believe in him in his world. Who would?

I was baptized, but when I turned three, my parents converted to Buddhism. My dad was too looking for a way out and he found it through this religion. I'm Buddhist too, (chosen my myself) and it has cleared up many things for me.

Life is about learning lessons and becoming a good person. There are many places after death...life has a purpose. Well, that's what I believe.

I believe in karma, and reincarnation...
So basically what goes around comes around whether it was from this life or past ones and everyone has the power inside them to move out of reincarnation on onto a higher level....(nirvana, or a different state of existence). So basically, everyone wins eventually...there is no permanent hell either. Everything is a lesson and an experience to take note of.

. through . my . eyes .

I wish I could believe that, too.
It's a good philosophy... great, even. But I'm stuck with this... I guess that was the point of my post. I can't see from any other angle. Even if the other angle sounds so perfect.

You are never stuck. Only you can make yourself stuck. It just comes down to what you truly believe!

Besides, that's just my personal practice...there are so many out in the world.

Ahhh... you're younger than me, and you know so much more!

I'm just very into my practice, and beliefs.

. on the quest to reach enlightenment .

Best wishes.

good luck to you on seeking knowledge ^_^

Um your friend isn't 100% correct just to point out... you say he's a philosipher right? It's his job to think about that kind of stuff.. no one is 100% about where we're going once we die...

I grew up as a roman catholic, a very strict life. When I turned 12 I started doubting the church. As I read the bible, I noticed that they contradict themselves WAY too much. I mean it says that it's ok to sell your daughter.... and they also say if you ask for forgiveness, you'll be forgiven, but in leviticus there was a verse that kind of says that homosexuality is an UNFORGIVABLE action and status...... Plus when I go to church, I kind of get the feeling they're after the money. And is God really here? My sister said it was God who provided my parents' jobs... Did it ever occur to her that it was THEM who got the jobs? It was THEM who worked hard to get their specialty in medicine.. god didn't do shit. You think it was him who convinced the boss to hire them? HELL NO! Isn't it obvious that everyone chooses for their own free will? So how on earth does he provide my parents' jobs and other living necessities? People say it is god who grows crops on earth but in truth it was the farmers who tended for the crops and the climate to rain and stuff...And to live life for atonement and worshipping? THAT IS NOT WORTH IT. Once I go to heaven what am I gonna do? Sure it's a paradise... to do what? NOTHING BUT WORSHIP EVEN FURTHER! I'd rather stay on Earth and struggle.

To me all these religions are CRAP. I am sorry if I offended anyone here, it's just me and my "beliefs"

My dad had the same thoughts about it growing up. That's why he converted.

He isn't 100% right according to whom? Your truth? His truth has just as much weight as yours. For all we know, he could be right and we'll just be gone like we never existed. Just the same, there might be a heaven and hell, or just some purgatory. You're right, no one knows. But anyone can be right.

The Bible was a work in progress. Times were changing, and the stories and lessons did too. The only thing that remains constant is God as himself. Like on Paul's letter about regarding homosexual practices. He condemned it like nothing else, but you have to understand, at that time homosexuals were mostly prostitutes. There's also a verse on how women have to keep quiet at church. But in that context, the church going women were raucous and incosiderate. It doesn't mean women in modern times have to hide behind curtains and be silent around their men.

Homosexuality is a sin, yes. All sins are forgivable, and thus so is homosexuality. If you keep doing it, with no remorse or without repenting, of course he won't forgive you. He won't forgive you until you actually change.

If this god hadn't created your friend's parents, they wouldn't have had a chance to get the jobs they got. If he hadn't created the boss, there would be no job to earn.

We do have free will. God just knows what choices we make. Just because he knows our path doesn't mean he makes it for us. Sure, I'm sure he has a 'plan' that he'd like us to take, but we won't. Because we're foolish foolish creatures.

This is all Christian beliefs. It's not necessarily mine.

yeah, but most (if not all) Christians that I know are forced to go to church and practice that religion as a child so they can't get away from it. If they did, their parents would disapprove and be extremely disappointed in them.

I guess im a big sinner then huh?

Any how would YOU know if THERE is A heaven or a hell? (Im justing coping the way you type)

I would love to see proof on these two worlds.

you can't say that heaven and hell exists because you have neither experienced either one yourself, or have any proof of its existence....

but can we really say anything is for sure? whose to say our experiences or proof mean anything?

Just because you are raised Christian doesn't mean that's what you must believe. You can't control what you believe. You just think whatever is most reasonable to you. Tracy (D1SMANTLED) was raised strictly Roman Catholic and I explained why I was atheist, and she started reconsidering.

I, like your friend, believe that when we die, our body rots in the ground and that's about it. I don't believe in the afterlife and I don't believe in heaven and hell. If it ends up that I'm wrong and I go to hell simply because I don't believe in God, then oh well. I'm not too concerned with it since I'm pretty set in my ideas. I think it's kinda unfair though..but that's a different subject.

I'm an atheist because I need answers. I need science and logic and something I can see to believe in something. No one has ever been able to tell me where God came from and how he supposedly created everything. There are no answers in deities for me. With the Big Bang theory and evolution, it's something natural that happens. Stars explode in the universe all the time. It's logical to think a gigantic explosion could have happened once with a gigantic star. Why not? It just seems so much more logical...

So anyway..you're not stuck with what your parents tell you to believe, and you don't necessarily need to let them know what you believe (if they'd be dissappointed or something). Believe whatever you believe. No one should make you practice something you don't believe in. Just be who you are and believe what makes more sense to you.

It seems logical to me that God created life. Science has done more to disprove itself than to disprove the Bible. I haven't been introduced facts that made the heterotroph hypothesis the definitive reason for life on this planet. But I do believe that God created life on this planet. Problem is, how do I know God exists? Easy. I talk to him every night.

ohhhhh...wow. I havent posted in this thread because I find it hard to express my religious beliefs and the reasons I believe in God to other people that dont share my faith and you've expressed the way I feel about this issue so perfectly. *speechless*

QUOTE(andromeda_90 @ Sep 23 2005, 10:16 PM)

Um your friend isn't 100% correct just to point out... you say he's a philosipher right? It's his job to think about that kind of stuff.. no one is 100% about where we're going once we die...

I grew up as a roman catholic, a very strict life. When I turned 12 I started doubting the church. As I read the bible, I noticed that they contradict themselves WAY too much. I mean it says that it's ok to sell your daughter.... and they also say if you ask for forgiveness, you'll be forgiven, but in leviticus there was a verse that kind of says that homosexuality is an UNFORGIVABLE action and status...... Plus when I go to church, I kind of get the feeling they're after the money. And is God really here? My sister said it was God who provided my parents' jobs... Did it ever occur to her that it was THEM who got the jobs? It was THEM who worked hard to get their specialty in medicine.. god didn't do shit. You think it was him who convinced the boss to hire them? HELL NO! Isn't it obvious that everyone chooses for their own free will? So how on earth does he provide my parents' jobs and other living necessities? People say it is god who grows crops on earth but in truth it was the farmers who tended for the crops and the climate to rain and stuff...And to live life for atonement and worshipping? THAT IS NOT WORTH IT. Once I go to heaven what am I gonna do? Sure it's a paradise... to do what? NOTHING BUT WORSHIP EVEN FURTHER! I'd rather stay on Earth and struggle.

To me all these religions are CRAP. I am sorry if I offended anyone here, it's just me and my "beliefs"

Exactly. And I mean if God really cares about soooooo much, than why would he make us suffer? And why would he send us to hell? To suffer even more? I thought God told us to love our neighbors. HOW is sending us to hell loving us?

And I think it's bullshit when people say that they feel God's presence with them. It's not God that you feel with you. It's just yourself making you believe that it's God.

Oh gosh. You just said everything that was in my head. Thank you.

I've been Roman Catholic my whole life. But, there's been a huge change in the way I think about my religion in the past few years.

I agree with what you said about "losing the fire" and passion in religion if you've been brought up to believe in it your whole life. Ever since I could remember, I found going to church every Sunday and praying every night very mundane. I didn't think there was a point to it, but I did it and didn't ask questions because I thought it was something I HAD to do.

Then, I went through the Rite of Confirmation. I went to classes for 2 years that taught the Confirmandi all about the "why" of Catholic religion. I learned a lot not only about Catholicism, but about myself and where I fit into the religion. Throughout those 2 years of Confirmation class, I was never once told that I "HAD TO" do it. For the first time in my whole religious experience, it was MY choice whether I went through with it or not. And, for the first time, I was actually having fun at my church. I learned that there was more to it than sitting and standing and kneeling in Mass. There was the joy that comes from sharing God's grace with others. It's been a year since I was officially confirmed as a Catholic, and I wouldn't have it any other way. I'm proud of my religion, and I'm coming back this year as a Youth Minister so I can show other teenagers just how wonderful being a Catholic and believing in Jesus Christ is.

My faith has definitely become more special and meaningful to me ever since I made my own decision to be Catholic.

well... i think if you grew up with it then you will always have at least a little bit of faith.

but if you want to feel conviction again, i think you should read any of those books at any family christian book store... but it usually takes time and an open mind