should schools be allowed to start before 8AM? |
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should schools be allowed to start before 8AM? |
*tweeak* |
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#1
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I'm going to attempt to use this as a topic for a persuasive essay, but before we can get the topics approved, we have to basically debate with the teacher on it, so I'd like to be prepared for some of the arguements I'll be up against. Please provide thoughtful reasoning on your opinion, as to why it's important for schools to begin at one time or another
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#26
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![]() dripping destruction ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 7,282 Joined: Jun 2004 Member No: 21,929 ![]() |
QUOTE(RiC3xBoy @ Aug 29 2005, 12:06 AM) 1. School should be about both. A school with good teachers but horrid convienence is bad as well as a school that opens after 8 but lacks educational quality. no. the sole purpose of a school should be to provide the best education for students, not to provide convenience for white collar workers and transit systems. |
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*RiC3xBoy* |
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#27
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#28
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![]() dripping destruction ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 7,282 Joined: Jun 2004 Member No: 21,929 ![]() |
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*RiC3xBoy* |
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#29
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#30
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![]() Another ditch in the road... you keep moving ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Member Posts: 6,281 Joined: Jan 2005 Member No: 85,152 ![]() |
^
well, you are, mainly because you're using the same argument after it has already been refuted = ) |
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#31
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![]() Don't worry guys, size doesn't matter...to lesbians ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Member Posts: 2,444 Joined: Jan 2005 Member No: 85,066 ![]() |
QUOTE(RiC3xBoy @ Aug 29 2005, 12:06 AM) 1. School should be about both. A school with good teachers but horrid convienence is bad as well as a school that opens after 8 but lacks educational quality. 2. Most sport activities last for at least 4-5 hours, so unless you want to start at 4 AM, that's not a good idea. 1. If schools were fowarded, then it could be inconvienient(sp? sorry I suck at spelling) for bus drivers, students, parents, teachers alike. 2. As you said they need their sleep, so it is the students decision when to sleep, if they didn't get enough sleep, it is their fault, not the schools. AWw...Thx. Here is a flower: ![]() Thank you. You really do put up a good fight. I SAY SCHOOL START AFTER 8! |
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#32
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![]() cellophane chests? ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Member Posts: 488 Joined: Dec 2004 Member No: 75,816 ![]() |
Here's the opinion part of my reply:
From grades 8-11, my school started at 7:30 am and got out at 2:50 pm. I had to get up at 5:30 to catch the bus. I'd come home and crash most of the time, esp. if I didn't get to nap in my morning classes....my performance did suffer, but I don't blame it wholy on lack of sleep either... Now, I think that are alternatives to starting school so early in the day: 1) Start Later. Wow, there's a simple one. How about switching start dates for elem. and secondary. schools? Well, this was actually considered in the district where I attended high school. It was shot down because of extra-curricular activities. If our high school didn't get out until 3:45, then our practices would be delayed and transportation to away events would clash with rush hour and chances are, it would mess with the scheduling of events since other districts in our area let out around 3:00. Also, a lot of secondary students watch younger siblings after school and not having them home to do so would put unnecessary strain on families and schools. 2) 4-Day Schedules This is an actual solution right here: 4 Day Week. That's the whole document, for those who want to read it unchopped. Jump To The Research and Articles Section. There's the meat of you want to know. Now, how does this 4-Day Week help with early start times? The students generally have to go to school an extra 90 minutes a day to make it work...but think about it. A whole day off? 3 day weekends every weekend? A slew of optional programs that could help with educational process and make it easier for students to recieve tutoring and make up work and tests?? It's also been shown to help cash strapped districts cut costs. Families get more time to spend together, it's easier to schedule appointments, and secondary students can sleep in. 3) Flex Schedules This was and is being discussed in the district where I attended high school and my nieces still attend school there. It would only be an option for secondary students, though. I think right now it is still in the formative stages for the high school because the hs in my hometown is hellishly overcrowded. Basically, students could choose whether to attend school from 6am to 1pm or from 11am to 5pm. Students could add extra hours if they wanted or they could take only the minimum depending on how many credits they need. They could choose to take classes as blocks or single hours and could work community service hours, tutoring and sports and band practices in during the day. It would also help facilitate work release, college release, and personal appointments. It's also been suggested that it could help cut transportation costs and other expenses, but it's been tied up in legislation for awhile here. As you see, if schools are really interested in thinking outside of the box or desperate, they can come up with creative solutions to their problems. |
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*RiC3xBoy* |
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#33
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QUOTE(racoons > you @ Aug 30 2005, 9:28 AM) Yea I am, and it really bothers me since I honestly don't argree with what I'm saying. Just thought it might be something fun to debate about. Anywho, my main point was that if schools were to start later, then it would eff up other pplz's schedules. With that being said, it would be kinda sophmoric for the students to make it easier for them, but harder on everyone else. |
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#34
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![]() unify and defeat... divide and crumble ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Member Posts: 2,759 Joined: Mar 2004 Member No: 6,379 ![]() |
QUOTE(andromeda_90 @ Aug 30 2005, 11:48 AM) Um...i'm pretty sure he's arguing for school to start BEFORE 8 QUOTE School should be about both. A school with good teachers but horrid convienence is bad as well as a school that opens after 8 but lacks educational quality. Asumming your argument IS true, one has to take priority over another. In this case, it should be the education of the students. QUOTE If schools were fowarded, then it could be inconvienient(sp? sorry I suck at spelling) for bus drivers, students, parents, teachers alike. Sorry, but what does "forwarded" mean in your argument? Moved forward? QUOTE 2. As you said they need their sleep, so it is the students decision when to sleep, if they didn't get enough sleep, it is their fault, not the schools. Yes, but it would entirely eff up their biological clock on a schedule moved up so early, and they wouldn't be able to function properly with the rest of their community. |
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#35
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![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Official Member Posts: 7,149 Joined: Aug 2005 Member No: 213,509 ![]() |
it should ..min estarts at 7:30 ends at 2 something liek 210
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*RiC3xBoy* |
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#36
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QUOTE(mai_z @ Aug 30 2005, 1:12 PM) True, but the other can not be un-looked. QUOTE(mai_z @ Aug 30 2005, 1:12 PM) Sorry about that, I mean if the school had opened after 8. QUOTE(mai_z @ Aug 30 2005, 1:12 PM) Yes, but it would entirely eff up their biological clock on a schedule moved up so early, and they wouldn't be able to function properly with the rest of their community. I highly doubt waking up a little early would eff them up. Sure, it might cause a little sleepiness, but nothing close to extreme situations. |
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#37
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![]() Quand j'étais jeune... ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 6,826 Joined: Jan 2004 Member No: 1,272 ![]() |
QUOTE(mai_z @ Aug 28 2005, 9:10 PM) I went to the only arts school in the city for elementary school, so we were basically forced to start after 9 (we started at 9:30) because students had to get from all over the city to school. Classes didn't end until 4, and kids didn't get home till around five. 'What does this have to do with the topic?' you ask...well we had the highest average in the entire school board. It's virtually impossible to ask students to function at peak performance that early in the morning, because they need their sleep. If they had to get to school at 8, and perhaps wake up around 6:30, they would all be sleeping in class instead of learning. I seriously think that this depends on individuals. For four years in high school, I wake up at 5:30am to catch the buss at 6-6:15am and I do not have a problem with staying awake in class. If staying awake in class is hard, students should try going to bed 11pm at the latest instead of chating or talking nonsense on the phone at night. If you're concerned about how well I did in school, I graduated in the top 8%-9% of my class with 3-5 as scores for AP testings (I didn't test for all my AP classes though -__- no money). For the last year, I've been waking up at 6am to work out in the morning before going to school. Again, I have no problem with keeping myself awake through out the day unless I stayed up past 12 the night before. Also, on days that I do wake up later for classes, I find that I am easily distracted in class. I don't think the argument that students do worse when they have to wake up early is very credible because it doesn't pertain to everyone. Some folks are morning people and some aren't. |
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#38
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![]() dripping destruction ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 7,282 Joined: Jun 2004 Member No: 21,929 ![]() |
up to 5 % of teenagers are thought to have an abnormally delayed circadian cycle and cannot fall asleep befoer 2 am and cannot wake up before 10 am. if they are forced to wake up earlier their work suffers.
that's 1 in 20, or at least one in every class. |
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#39
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![]() Quand j'étais jeune... ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 6,826 Joined: Jan 2004 Member No: 1,272 ![]() |
QUOTE(sadolakced acid @ Aug 30 2005, 7:27 PM) up to 5 % of teenagers are thought to have an abnormally delayed circadian cycle and cannot fall asleep befoer 2 am and cannot wake up before 10 am. if they are forced to wake up earlier their work suffers. that's 1 in 20, or at least one in every class. wouldn't those be considered as special needs students? |
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#40
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![]() L!ckitySplit ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Member Posts: 4,325 Joined: Apr 2005 Member No: 129,329 ![]() |
haha thats how i feel on some days ^
![]() but usually when i get a bad grade i know the reason and it not because of sleep deprivation |
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#41
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![]() sunshiine ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Member Posts: 1,080 Joined: Jun 2004 Member No: 20,360 ![]() |
No, because most students have lack of sleep already like me I enjoy having school AFTER 8 and i find that i can make sure I have the enough sleep and focus for the next school day. So.... no it shouldnt no sleep no focus. BAD LEARNING
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*tweeak* |
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#42
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*mipadi* |
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#43
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QUOTE(sadolakced acid @ Aug 30 2005, 8:27 PM) up to 5 % of teenagers are thought to have an abnormally delayed circadian cycle and cannot fall asleep befoer 2 am and cannot wake up before 10 am. if they are forced to wake up earlier their work suffers. that's 1 in 20, or at least one in every class. Is this merely a statement of a fact, or do you mean to suggest that the schoolday should be altered to accomodate that 5%? |
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#44
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![]() Quand j'étais jeune... ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 6,826 Joined: Jan 2004 Member No: 1,272 ![]() |
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*iNyCxShoRT* |
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#45
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I'd rather have school start before 8, so you can get out earlier.
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#46
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![]() Holla if ya hate me ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Member Posts: 2,386 Joined: Jan 2005 Member No: 80,819 ![]() |
Helllll Noooo!!!
I don't wake up until like... 7:45 >:P I'm always late to first period. |
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*tweeak* |
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#47
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QUOTE(uninspiredfae @ Aug 31 2005, 4:02 PM) no, gifted is determined by iq, not our sleep patterns. i meant that it's not very well going to qualify as a special need if you need different sleep hours. they're not going to let anyone go at different times, and they're not going to let you do worse work because of it. but i was much better in school in middle school when we started at 9:20 rather than 7:15. Now, yes, work got harder, but I'm genuinely slower than I used to be and I think that's largely due to this forced sleep schedule. during the summer, i was altogether far more able to do things, i was happier, better in social situations (for example, I've been a complete bitch lately but I can't control it), and my reading comprehension was back up to its former level. Now i've digressed. |
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#48
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![]() dripping destruction ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 7,282 Joined: Jun 2004 Member No: 21,929 ![]() |
QUOTE(mipadi @ Aug 31 2005, 3:15 PM) Is this merely a statement of a fact, or do you mean to suggest that the schoolday should be altered to accomodate that 5%? it's a statemenet of fact that's the extreme. biologically, teenagers when have hit puberty have a delayed cicardian cycle, but not as much as in that example. a 9:00 start would see a jump in test scores- which many schools want to do. statistics show that schools that start later do better, when economics and population are factored out. |
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#49
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![]() Quand j'étais jeune... ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 6,826 Joined: Jan 2004 Member No: 1,272 ![]() |
QUOTE(tweeak @ Aug 31 2005, 4:13 PM) no, gifted is determined by iq, not our sleep patterns. i meant that it's not very well going to qualify as a special need if you need different sleep hours. they're not going to let anyone go at different times, and they're not going to let you do worse work because of it. but i was much better in school in middle school when we started at 9:20 rather than 7:15. Now, yes, work got harder, but I'm genuinely slower than I used to be and I think that's largely due to this forced sleep schedule. during the summer, i was altogether far more able to do things, i was happier, better in social situations (for example, I've been a complete bitch lately but I can't control it), and my reading comprehension was back up to its former level. Now i've digressed. to the very first sentence, that much is clear. for some reason, a lot of people think that special needs are for those who are mentally retarded or have some kind of physical setback, but it also pertains to special learning needs. i'm just not pulling this out of my butt either. most sleep problems occurs in people with special needs, so i had figured that you'd qualified even if you are gifted. but, i just researched and it is unfortunate that schools don't provide programs to accommodate those with sleep disorders. as you already know well, this keeps you from making the best of your gifted abilities. i digress, too, but i learned something new. |
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*tweeak* |
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#50
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I actually knew that somewhat, because at one point we were informed that gifted qualified as special needs, somewhat, but it doesn't really do much good to have an odd sleep patter count as a special need, because no one is ever going to recognize it as such
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