Saying George Bush is a hero for going to war is pretty misleading in my eyes too.

And yea, how in the WORLD is it HELPING TERRORISTS?

Ah blah blah, I really gotta stop coming in here. I get too mad. I'm going to have bad high blood pressure.



In a way it is part Bush's fault. He chose to act on faulty [is that spelled right?] intelligence.

And I'll agree with headphones. Saying Bush is a hero for going to war isn't right. That's too extreme.

Well, it's undermining the war effort. Bin Laden has used pieces from Fahrenheit 9/11 in his speeches.



What 9/11 movie has said George Bush is a hero? And I don't think the movies should go too deeply into the war on terror. I want them to talk about 9/11.

I think it's going a bit far to say that any criticism of the government is undermining the war effort and helping the terrorists. If we're going to look down on those freedoms now, then the terrorists have already won.

Speaking out against the government isn't wrong. Lying is wrong.

^ and farenheit 9/11 was all lies?

It had some lies. Documentaries, especially ones on topics such as 9/11, should not have any lies.

And, exactly, how do YOU know that F. 9/11 contained lies? All because you read articles (written by Conservatives, I'm sure) that say that F. 9/11 was a fake, doesn't mean that THEY'RE telling the truth. Like everyone said, people who are against Bush will agree with Michael Moore, and people that are pro-Bush or pro-war will say that the movie was bullshit. It all depends on your views of 9/11 and Bush.

Because I saw it (although I'll admit, I was extremely disgusted, and I turned it off without seeing the whole thing). Because I like to get something called perspective, especially when watching propaganda films like F. 9/11. Because I like to research things that people say that I don't think are true.

The movie used facts, but it is outrageously misleading. If you just listen to one side, you're simply buying into their propaganda.

Let me ask you, what do you think of the Swift Boat movie?

[edit]

BTW, Ed Koch, former Democrat (read: liberal) Mayor of NYC, had this to say about Fahrenheit 9/11: (I bolded some text for emphasis)



There you have it. A liberal finds Fahrenheit 9/11 misleading. Which isn't surprising at all, since anyone who has the sense to find perspective can figure that out.

Fahrenheit 9/11 isn't a documentary, but it is more of an editorial; and like it or not, Michael Moore has a right to express his opinion, even one contradicting that of our own government's propaganda machine (which has been spewing out spin endlessly since 9/11). I don't see why it is acceptable for the government and the Bush administration to spin the story and express their opinions how they choose, but a private citizen like Michael Moore is "helping the terrorists."

Granted, I don't like Michael Moore very much because he does do more harm than good, but the fact is, amongst all the biases and propaganda, there is some good information about the government that people should know about.

I'm not going to get heated about this…but Micheal Moore has never told a lie that cost thousands of lives. Take that how you will.

I'm fine with Michael Moore expressing his opinion. I just don't want him supporting his opinion with lies. I'd rather he just present the good information, rather than wrap it in trash.



Yeah, Bill Clinton is a heck of a liar.

So at what point do we stop blaming everything on Michael Moore or Bill Clinton, and actually admit that yes, George Bush misled the public, and yes, that cost over 1000 American lives?

Michael Moore didn't lie. He used hard facts in every bit of that movie, just interpreted and used these facts, showing them differently than you would.

Why don't you get this? None of it is lies, it's just not seen in the same light as you.

Conservatives and liberals have the same information on the war in their minds. There's disagreement because they interpret and use the information differently. It's not that either of them are lying, they just choose to use the facts they've been given differently than the other.

Well, you argue back and fourth so fervently. Darn conservatives and dastardly liberals. Let's take a look at each group. Basically, by simple definition, conservative means that you are against change, and liberal means you embrace change, looking forward to new things.

Now, logically looking at these 2 groups with no bias, I think that it is easy to see, on a political level, that the liberal view is a more beneficial one.

Realistically, however, it has come down to this. The conservatives carry religious connotations, and have their own form of unattractive fanaticism.

The liberals tend to get the fanaticism, violent, trouble making rep. But let's also look at some assemblies of people. Look into recent gatherings of people and look at the results. People have remained peaceful, but the police presence has become rather aggressive, oppressive, and forceful.

It seems to me that a lot of our rights are being slowly scared out of us. The right to a peaceful assembly, a.k.a. protest, has been suppressed by very aggressive police actions against protesters, under unjust circumstances. People want less and less to speak out against our government.

Criticism is very important in any system, and should never be suppressed, as long as it can be justified. It definitely plays a very strong part in positive development. We just can't forget that this is OUR country; Us being the people!

Oh, 9/11. There are many very interesting facts, and some very obvious observations that make the official statements on the incident rather...questionable. Two main examples are what I like to call, "The Pentagon and the Plane".

First, there is the pentagon. The highway, near the pentagon, that the plane would have flew over was in no way disturbed. Now, a plane that size flying over that highway would have tossed cars over quite easily. Next, well, the lawn in front of the pentagon was... oddly intact. The amount of wreckage was questionable, and the holes were just too perfect.

Of note in all of this, is the fact that Cheney just happened to have the jets that would have been scrambled to protect the Pentagon out doing practice runs in the middle of nowhere. Also, he had troops stationed in New York, practicing "relief efforts" which they just so happened to have needed for that day.

Providence? Coincidence? I say suspicious, or peculiar, at least

Now, on to the plane that went down. There was a call made from that plane and the hijacker was spoken of. He was not referred to as middle eastern, nor anything you would expect if the scenario were to play out as it supposedly did. The person who made the call was also a reporter, I believe, so they would have paid attention to detail.

Another obvious observation was that on top of all that, the planes hit the towers at a time when people were just coming in for work. If this was a devious plot that people who absolutely hated us had planned for years, don't you think they would kill as many people as possible?

I also want to remind everyone that the evidence shows that 9/11 and Iraq have no direct correlation, but I hear it said all too often that we are in Iraq because of 9/11. I guess when the real reason is a lie, people who support the liar tend to quickly forget, and fabricate some other extravagant, justifiable reason to kill women, children, and the people fighting to protect their beliefs. Beliefs that we have no right to challenge...but hey, that's just my opinion.

If you read any of their literature, you'd see that starting a war with them was a bad idea. Bush only seems to read children's books, though. Maybe he should read the real Aladdin.

As far as movies go, everyone has a right to present information from their viewpoint. You all choose, as people weather or not to accept it. It all depends on your political stance, and your perception though I suppose.

These are just a few thoughts about the topic and events. I guess that's really all I have to say about that for now, thanks for your time

i agree with you. documentries are nice but when they make a movie... its just wrong. it is liek they are using the tragity to make money. and that is really low

ah geez, I knew they gonna make a movie the second I heard about 9/11

michael moore made the movie to INFORM people....because unfortunately, a lot of people are brainwashed and don't know the truth about 9/11 and Bush.

of course farenheit 9/11 was extrodinarily one sided. i stopped watching it halfway through. but i thought it twisted facts- not made them up.

of course it was one-sided. if you're a republican, then you simply shouldn't watch the movie because you'll be "offended". there are plenty of movies that liberals would never want to watch because they are made by conservatives. clearly, republicans have a certain state of mind about the war in iraq and 9/11, and a documentary isn't going to change their views.

At what point do we stop talking about Iraq in a thread about 9/11? Bill Clinton attacked Iraq for WMDs.



Didn't lie?

Here's one. Moore said that Iraq never threatened to attack the United States or any of its citizens. We all know how they've been shooting at our planes. We know Saddam planned to assassinate George Bush Sr. We know that his sons wanted to attack US war ships. USN CVNs are considered sovreign US territor. An attack on one would be considered an attack on the United States.

Even when he doesn't lie, he grossly twists the facts.



Suggesting F.9/11 is the whole truth is absurd, and if you disagree, you've been brainwashed.



It had more half truths, misleading figures, and twisted facts than outright lies, but there were some.



A few posts up, you said the movie was to inform people. Shouldn't I watch it, even if I am conservative minded? Or was Fahrenheit 9/11 made just to reinforce the conclusions that those on the left already made. You're really confusing me.

I'll reiterate that it's ridiculous to think only conservatives will be offended by the film. As I've stated earlier, Ed Koch was offended. Mr. Acid over here gave up on it.

And if anything, what you've stated about Republicans is true about many other people, not just Republicans.

I'm willing to change my view if the facts clearly tell me I'm wrong. Fahrenheit 9/11 didn't have enough facts to convince me.

Fahrenheit 9/11 was a movie about current events and current times, focusing on our conflict with Iraq right now, not 20 years ago, so anything having to do with George Bush Sr. has nothing to do with what was said in the movie. England is not against us, but they were years ago; however, when people say they have made no threats against us, they are referring to now, not in all time. Most countries have been against us at one time.

Oh. Em. Gee. Thank you so much because I finally got to laugh at someone today.


Anyways.

So, democrats hate the republicans movies. And vice versa.

It's always going to be like that. Im not really wanting to see a political movie beause my nerves are just blah.

To the republicans they make think that that movie is full of twisted lies and that michael moore needs to be shot.

while the dem's insist that he is a god and he came out with the truth.

so frankly, you're right.

it just depends on how you see the things.
----


Back to the aspect of a 9/11 movie: There are FACTS about this. 3 planes crash, fight back yadda yadda yadda etc. THERE ARE FACTS.


I'm going to be pissed off if they twist those facts.

Invalid point.

Your argument would make much more sense if King George III was still in power. Saddam Hussein was in power back then. The same guy who made the threat was still in power.

^^(two up)

like the fact that the third plane flew 6 feet off the ground on the way to the pentagon?

4 planes.


not all the facts are right, i suppose, but i don't think they'll screw it up too much. they're bound to offend someone, but i think it will be a heroic story with some hollywood embellishments.

i think a movie simply about the plane in pennsylvania would be best.

at least al queda isn't the ones releasing films about 9/11 (that will be in theaters). you have to know, the studio excs. are americans that went through it and care as much as the rest of us (hopefully) that it's not done wrong.