I've got a feeling that hell kicks major ass. Considering that Christians tend to ban just about everything cool, Heaven must be really quite dull. now Hell, hell has Rock music, sex, drugs, and violent video games. There is no Grand Theft Auto, there is no Red Hot Chili Peppers, there is no porn in heaven. Heres an example of what an ordinary day in hell i imagine would be. I wake up in my apartment, dress in designer clothes(designed by gay men, since they don't get to go to heaven) do a line of coke, and leave to go clubbing with stalin. After that i can go play violent video games or drink alcohol, etc. in fact, heaven sounds like one big red state in the sky; lots of white people, intolerance, and boring entertainment. now people say, "you burn in hell!" but who says thats true? god? maybe god is lying. if god is all powerful, why can't he lie? just some weird ideas.

don't take this too seriously.

I know you're asking Mr. Acid, but...

For me, it sounds more "real" than the perfection of Heaven. God had to create Heaven, but Hell was just a side effect, but God didn't bother to destroy it. It can't be that bad if God is fine with its existence. After all, does God not abhor all evil/sins? If He has such a big problem with evils and sins, then why not destroy Hell?

I completely understand when you say it's more "real," and that's because it's more similar to our world that we live in now. If our world wasn't filled with suffering and evil, then we would think heaven would be more real. God didn't destroy Hell because God is a loving God but also a just God. He wants everyone to come to know Him and He does give them that chance, but He also believes in justice, and His laws declare that anyone who does not choose to have a loving relationship with Him will spend the rest of eternity away from Him. Hell is not an actual place, it is just the name for "spending eternity away from God". (This could be a whole other debate topic, so I'll try to stay on topic now.)

Actually, I do not think of Earth as Hell. Not even close.. but that's just me.

I thought it more real because God allows its existence while He has to create Heaven. For example, we didn't create Nature, it just exists. And I happen to find nature, or things that are natural, more "real" than things that must be made/created. I hope I clarified things a bit.

Even if Hell didn't exist, the concept of God and Heaven would still be unreal unless those things are made known. As in, God Himself reveals himself and His power to mankind.

Debating any further would stray to the topic of free will and I've already addressed free will in many, many posts in God I and God II, as well as other religion related topics.

I kind of understand what you mean by the first part. I believe that God created nature, but I think I get what you're saying -- kind of like nature has always been here?

It's hard to see God's power sometimes. Even I have to look pretty closely

Then look at it this way: Nature's "real" is based things that we know for sure of, as in both you and I acknowledge it. It's a universal truth. However, the concept of Heaven and Hell is a 'truth' based on perspective.

The universal truth is that Nature exist before Man. Man didn't create nature. Compare this: Man created machines from their minds while Nature was always just there, and God created Heaven, while Hell is just there.



Yes!

Ok, God created everything that was good. Satan made everything that was bad.

a place of weeping and gnashing of teeth, no thanks

nooo really?

Well, people kept on writing, if "How could da da da da da be so bad when God created it?"

LOL

because i am of the antichrist, right?

i cannot stand an eternity with all the 'good christians' in heaven, basking in the glow of this oh-so-prefect god that's really full of himself.

ah. so you'd rather not be good? am i correct? that's fine, just trying to understand what you're saying.

i do not want to be the bible's definition of good.
i do not want to live the bible's definition of heaven.

i can be good in my own way, but the bible says it's bad.

this is really interesting =) i have never met anyone like you, but that's not a bad thing. i spend a lot of my time around my christian friends, so this is an interesting new perspective for me. thanks for sharing.

----double post. so sorry.

It's not called "bashing". He's simply giving his opinion. Just as you are. EVERYONE has the right to express how they feel--whether you believe in it or not.

About the whole hell issue---think what you want to think. I, myself, believe that there is no hell nor heaven. You simply die, and that's it. Why does everything have to be so complicated?



What you said is definitely considered hypocritical. People that don't believe in God shouldn't be bashing those who do, and yet, you plus others in this thread are allowed to bash non-believers?



i feel the same way.

who created satan then?

god is all powerful. it's his fault.

god didnt create SATAN, he created an angel that was the most powerful angel... and he got jealous of god that he had all the power, and he didnt want to serve god anymore so he did something, yada yada yada then he got thrown in hell. the end. read the bible for a better understanding, im not too clear on exactly how it went

oh, now you have invoked the wrath of mr. acid.
never tell me to read the bible.

god created everything. he created the earth, and heaven, and his angels. he is all powerful. he controled extactly what they would become.

god, the all-powerful, created the angel who would become satan. which means god was the one who planted the seed of jealousy, and god was the one that made him.

and if, infact, god is all powerful, then he was the one who controled his angel to become evil, and to create hell.

also, i am the voice of god. god is all-powerful. the bible says so. he created the world, and thus he controls me.

this is the voice of god. you will listen to me!!!

ok, by the end of the debate you will have either admited god created all evil, or that god is not all-powerful. both of which go against christianity and the bible.

thats illogical. your confusing the potential for power with total control. jus tbecause god CAN control everyone, doesnt neccessarily mean he chooses to do so



why? surely it cant damage your hard athiest beliefs can it? after all its just a book. if you were in any other deabte, you would research sources pertaining to the opposition in order to understand the counter argument, so whats the difference?

- im not trying to be agressive btw, i support your side of this argument. i just thought that post was flawed is all

lol i wasnt forcing you to read the bible. i was making a point that if you ever wanted to learn more about it, its all in that book. personally, i dont read the bible, i only know what i have learned, but since you asked a question "who created satan then" i was merely trying to answer it

yea, only the first 4 'paragraphs' are really true.

the rest turned into a rant.

the reason why to never tell me to read the bible is because the bible is propogranda. it has been re-written many times to suit the current pope or king.

^^

but thats not exclusive to the bible. almost every government, and many individuals have at somepoint tweaked or twisted facts and fgures, or else used them in misleading context, to put across a point or suit the ideas of the the dya. if you're worried about that, no source can vever be considred truly safe

however, the bible has been altered too much.

2000 years of politics has changed it's text. whole parts of it have been intentionally left out. no one is sure of the original text. it's too far changed to be considered a mere re-write of the original.

that doesnt make it irrelevant when considering chrisitanty in the modern day, andthe ideals of the religion ina contemporary context.

agreed. they didnt change the bible so much as to twist around any ideas, when they changed it, its to help people understand better what they were actually talking about.