The Ten Commandments, display or not? Options

[BeyondElite]

"The US Supreme Court heard arguments on the constitutionality of displaying in public spaces the Ten Commandments, in a case on the officially mandated separation of church and state in US society." Do you agree that the Ten Commandments should be displayed in public spaces? Why or why not?

In my opinion, the Ten Commandments should be displayed in government property to pay tribute to America's religious and legal history. There are three fouths (3/4) of people here in America that are in the religions of Christianity and Judaism that believes in the Ten Commandments and practices this commandment. "These Commandments have an undeniable religious significance, but they also have secular significance as a source of the law, a code of law and a well-recognized historical symbol of the law." Amendment one of the U.S. Bill of Rights clearly says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..." However, freedom of Religion depends of freedom from religion. Even though one does not believe in God's existence, they simply can ignore the first, second, third and fourth commandment and simply follow the rest of the commandments which are to respect elders, to forbid murder, to forbid committing adultery, to forbid stealing, to forbid false witness against neighbor, and forbid coveting your neighbor's house (which is really similar to the laws of the United States.) What do you think?

[sadolakced acid]

The only religious history the United States has is a lack of one.

Most the founding fathers were deists, who did not belive in the church, only in god.

Some commandments have similarities to the laws of this nation. However; these were already laws in other countries at the time the United States was developed. Therefore, the ten commandments is only thought to have play a part in the development of the country. It has not been proven.

the display of the ten commandments in front of government buildings would be the endorsement of the ten commandments.

the first commandment is "thou shalt have no other gods before me".

This phrase is one of the reasons why the ten commandments violate separation of church and state.


first it implies the existance of a god.
second, it orders the readers to worship this god.

clearly this violates the first ammendment, because the government would be endorsing a document that tells readers to worship a certain god.

[racoons > you]

^^

indeed.

the inclusion of this ocmmandment promotes the idea that the U.S. is exclusively Christian, rather than mostly Christian... which obviously issant the case

and how the hell do you spell issant? isant? isent? issent? none of them look right to me

*EDIT*

lol isn't. i get it. is---not.

heh mind went totally blank there... good old dyslexia

Fae says: It's "isn't".

This post has been edited by uninspiredfae: Mar 3 2005, 01:41 PM

[OriskybusinessO]

In my opinion, the Ten Commandments should be displayed in government property to pay tribute to America's religious and legal history.  There are three fouths (3/4) people here in America that are in the religions of Christianity and Judaism that believes in the Ten Commandments and practices this commandment.  What do you think?

What do you mean 'legal history'

This would not be 'paying tribute' it would be promoting or endorsing the religions that follow these rules (? i dont know if rules would be the right word) Just because the majortity believes in these commandments, there are poeple in our country that strongly oppose god, reliegion, etc. And it would not be fair to them. I know, lifes not always fair, but this is peoples religions (and 'non-religions') that we are talking about, it is a very serious matter to most people. And it does brake the separation of church and state and the 1st ammendmet of the bill of rights (as said before). So it cant be done, can it? Can they put it there? It would be braking the constitution etc.

[heyyfrankie]

i think that we should be able to have them in public because i don't see a REAL reason why they shouldn't.

people these days.

[redderstarr]

i'm a christian but i dont think they should. it would cause a lot of controversy and it really isn't fair for people of other religions. why put something up from one religion, and not another thing from another religion?
plus, it's not like the whole country is all christian. i mean... i wouldn't really care since i follow those commandments but, i dont think they should allow it.
wait, now i think they should. argh im confused i dont know what im talking about. it's like that thing about the pledge, and how it includes "under God..."
whatever. please don't read my post.

[ItzOnlySydney]

the first commandment is "thou shalt have no other gods before me".

This phrase is one of the reasons why the ten commandments violate separation of church and state.

exactly what i was thinking. I DO NOT WANT THEM DISPLAYED!

[*tweeak*]

exactly what i was thinking. I DO NOT WANT THEM DISPLAYED!

why should you be that adamently against it, though? can they not also be considered as moral guidelines? neverminding the one God bit. but you dont actually have to read them. while i dont think its necessarily appropriate for them to be placed publicly, no one is forcing you to read them

[OriskybusinessO]

i think that we should be able to have them in public because i don't see a REAL reason why they shouldn't.

people these days.

A real reason? people these days? Because its unfair to the other religions in this country, theres a reason. what do you mean 'people these days'?

[*kryogenix*]

The only religious history the United States has is a lack of one. 

Most the founding fathers were deists, who did not belive in the church, only in god.

God made the Ten Commandements for us, not the Church.

Some commandments have similarities to the laws of this nation.  However; these were already laws in other countries at the time the United States was developed.  Therefore, the ten commandments is only thought to have play a part in the development of the country.  It has not been proven.

the display of the ten commandments in front of government buildings would be the endorsement of the ten commandments.

And...?

the first commandment is "thou shalt have no other gods before me". 

This phrase is one of the reasons why the ten commandments violate separation of church and state.
first it implies the existance of a god.
second, it orders the readers to worship this god. 

clearly this violates the first ammendment, because the government would be endorsing a document that tells readers to worship a certain god.

What Justice Scalia says:

"It is a symbol that government derives its authority from God, and that's appropriate," said Scalia. He estimated that 90 percent of Americans agree with the message -- even if, as he joked, "85 percent couldn't tell you what the Ten Commandments are."

This is a good point. I heard about a book (i forgot the title), where it argues in favor of display of ten commandments. Recognizing the ten commandments recognizes that God is who grants rights, therefore government cannot take them away. If you don't recognize this, then government is who gives rights, and therefore, they can take them away.

A real reason? people these days? Because its unfair to the other religions in this country, theres a reason. what do you mean 'people these days'?

how is it unfair? those religions didn't play a part in the development of this country, why should their documents be placed in legal centers?

[sadolakced acid]

why should you be that adamently against it, though? can they not also be considered as moral guidelines? neverminding the one God bit. but you dont actually have to read them. while i dont think its necessarily appropriate for them to be placed publicly, no one is forcing you to read them

they are moral guidelines. with religion too, as the first commandment states.

God made the Ten Commandements for us, not the Church.
And...?

What Justice Scalia says:
This is a good point. I heard about a book (i forgot the title), where it argues in favor of display of ten commandments. Recognizing the ten commandments recognizes that God is who grants rights, therefore government cannot take them away. If you don't recognize this, then government is who gives rights, and therefore, they can take them away.
how is it unfair? those religions didn't play a part in the development of this country, why should their documents be placed in legal centers?

god made the ten commandments? or did moses take them out of the sianie mountains? i personally think he had some good ideas for moral laws and carved them himself...



i ask you, who belives that religions played a part in the shaping of the United States of America, where in the consitution, the declaration or independence, or any subsequent document by the fonding fathers stating that the ten commandments directly influenced the founding of the United States of America.

god does not give me freedom. if god were to 'give me freedom' i would have none. it is the constitution that gives me freedom. never in the consitution does it say my freedom is given to me by god.

In fact, it no document by the founding fathers even mention god. they mention a creator. this does not mean god. this means a creator. and that's that.

the United States of America is explicitly, NOT a christian nation. it doesn't matter what the founding fathers were. no document states they intended it to be a christian country.

[racoons > you]

Frankie, theres a difference between having them in public, say on a t-shirt, and hanging them on governmnet buildings

if the ten commandments are the basis of the laws of the country, then this doesn't negate the fact that they have a specific religious origin, and that by displaying them, you are elevating those who follow them, and belittling those who do not.

it will promote the idea that to be truly american, you have to believe in the Bible or God as a source of guidance, when many people do not.

as sadolekced said, (go vote for him as best debater, by the way), the US is not a christin nation, AND THEREFORE it is extremely inappropriate for the governemtn to specifically endorse one religion in that manner

[*kryogenix*]

god made the ten commandments?  or did moses take them out of the sianie mountains?  i personally think he had some good ideas for moral laws and carved them himself...
i ask you, who belives that religions played a part in the shaping of the United States of America, where in the consitution, the declaration or independence, or any subsequent document by the fonding fathers stating that the ten commandments directly influenced the founding of the United States of America. 

god does not give me freedom.  if god were to 'give me freedom' i would have none.  it is the constitution that gives me freedom.  never in the consitution does it say my freedom is given to me by god. 

In fact, it no document by the founding fathers even mention god.  they mention a creator.  this does not mean god.  this means a creator.  and that's that.

the United States of America is explicitly, NOT a christian nation.  it doesn't matter what the founding fathers were.  no document states they intended it to be a christian country.

No, God gave the Ten Commandments to Moses.

Yes, it does mention a creator, not specifically God, but many interpret God as their creator.

However, in no founding document do we find the seperation of church and state either.

Go figure.

Busy right now, will reply later.

[highly_evolved]

um no.

it would strike up too much controversy between other religions in the country.

[sadolakced acid]

No, God gave the Ten Commandments to Moses.

Yes, it does mention a creator, not specifically God, but many interpret God as their creator.

However, in no founding document do we find the seperation of church and state either.

Go figure.

Busy right now, will reply later.

i know 'god gave moses the ten commandments. ' i was just saying what i personally believe...


a creator is a creator. i don't give a d--- about what other people interpret a creator as. to me a creator is a creator- if they ment god then they could have put god in there.

No, but we find freedom of religion. And having the government endorse a documents ordering people to only believe in god is not freedom.

note that i did not refer to separation of church and state- howeverl; that is is found on the state level; virginia stature for the separation of church and state or something like that, from thomas jefferson.

this is FROM jefferson, the major writer of the declaration of independece.

therefore; i have a document saying that the founding fathers (at least one) supported the separation of church and state, and no documents have been presented that say the founding fathers supported only christianity, or that they were inspired by the ten commandments.

anyways: my state is wanting to require all schools to place the ten commandments (along with dec. of ind. , const. magna carta) in thier entryways.

however; that legislation provides no money for schools to do this.

and my school will find they will have a problem keeping the ten commandments spraypaint free...

oh the possiblilities...

"11. thou shalt do what the priest says, little boy."

hahaha... ok sorry. that didn't really contribute to the debate...

[OriskybusinessO]

how is it unfair? those religions didn't play a part in the development of this country, why should their documents be placed in legal centers?

its not about which religion played a part in the development in this country. Anyway, hoe did christianity or whatever play a part in the development of our contry? Because the founding fathers were christain? And i didnt ask fo the other religions documents to be displayed in public, that too would be unfair.

[Spirited Away]

how is it unfair? those religions didn't play a part in the development of this country, why should their documents be placed in legal centers?

One of the most important foundations of which this nation was built upon is freedom; this neccessarily includes religious freedom. Though other major religions did not partake in the creation of America, they have become a key ingredient in this country's melting pot, and perhaps, have come to represent the image that America is famed for: diversity.

Diversity is America and America is diversity. One cannot be the same without the other and America cannot hope to uphold the ideals of its Founding Fathers without diversity.

Fairness, in this case, is diversity; it is not choosing one over the others.

[*tweeak*]

they are moral guidelines.  with religion too, as the first commandment states. 

it was a rhetorical question. i meant, they could be shown as a reminder to behave morally as they being shown in a court house oh nevermind, thats a local debate that i got this mixed up with.

[sadolakced acid]

ah... ok.

but they shouldn't be shown in a court house...

if i ever went to one of those courts i'd appeal it and say the judge was biased becasue i was not christian, and he was.

so even if i was utterly guilty, i could get a retrial.

and; the justic system is suppost to be impartial, and not endorse anything.

[inthemudhole]

I think that they should be displayed.
I personally don't see how it's wrong or doing damage to anyone or anything.
If you don't appreciate it or if you don't believe in it, then don't look at it. It's as simple as that.

I don't have anything intelligent to say about it, but that is what I think.
When it comes to incidents like this, I just say that if you don't like it, then don't look at it or believe in it. I don't see how it's hurting anyone.

[highly_evolved]

I think that they should be displayed.
I personally don't see how it's wrong or doing damage to anyone or anything.
If you don't appreciate it or if you don't believe in it, then don't look at it. It's as simple as that.

I don't have anything intelligent to say about it, but that is what I think.
When it comes to incidents like this, I just say that if you don't like it, then don't look at it or believe in it. I don't see how it's hurting anyone.

its not hurting anyone its the fact that it will make the country seem like a catholic/christian/jewish country and other religions that do not follow the ten commandments are not welcomed. its not as eays as "if you dont like it dont look at it", somebody will find offence to it and strike up something. if the ten comandments are displayed y not buddha? and etc..

[sadolakced acid]

I think that they should be displayed.
I personally don't see how it's wrong or doing damage to anyone or anything.
If you don't appreciate it or if you don't believe in it, then don't look at it. It's as simple as that.

I don't have anything intelligent to say about it, but that is what I think.
When it comes to incidents like this, I just say that if you don't like it, then don't look at it or believe in it. I don't see how it's hurting anyone.

it hurts me.

i am one of the "anti-christ"*.
i utterly hate jesus when it is pushed into my face.
having it in front of government buildings is pushing it into my face.

*anti-christ in the sense that i'm not a christian. (i'm friends with christians and all that- unless they try to convert me.)

it's destorying my civil rights, becuase i have the right to have a government that is in NO way biased towards a religion.

and displaying a religous relic is bias towards another religion.

if it doesn't hurt anyone, could i display my ten commandments? i have just as much proof these influenced the founding fathers.


1. thou shalt kill christians
2. thou shalt worship the devil
3. thou shalt covet thy neighbor's wife.
4. thou shalt kidnap her.
5. thou shalt preform sacrafices
6. thou shalt drink blood twice a week
7. thou shalt not lie, but when thou lies, lie well.
8. thou shalt not steal if thou will get caught.
9. thou shalt not be nice to furry animals. they are sacrafices
10. thou shalt not attend any church. ever.

hey, it doens't hurt anyone!

you can just look away.

(note: i don't really belive that. sorry for any offense done- it's to show what i feel about the ten commandments. that's what it's like to me. )

[*tweeak*]

ah...  ok. 

but they shouldn't be shown in a court house... 

if i ever went to one of those courts i'd appeal it and say the judge was biased becasue i was not christian, and he was. 

so even if i was utterly guilty, i could get a retrial.

and;  the justic system is suppost to be impartial, and not endorse anything.

im not saying they should, im providing reasons why it might make sense for them to be. there was some big ordeal recently about a nearby county's courthouse where they refused to take them down, so someone got arrested, or something similar. i dont remember the whole story

[Teesa]

it hurts me.

i am one of the "anti-christ"*.
i utterly hate jesus when it is pushed into my face. 
having it in front of government buildings is pushing it into my face.

*anti-christ in the sense that i'm not a christian. (i'm friends with christians and all that- unless they try to convert me.) 

it's destorying my civil rights, becuase i have the right to have a government that is in NO way biased towards a religion.

and displaying a religous relic is bias towards another religion. 

if it doesn't hurt anyone, could i display my ten commandments?  i have just as much proof these influenced the founding fathers.
1. thou shalt kill christians
2. thou shalt worship the devil
3. thou shalt covet thy neighbor's wife.
4. thou shalt kidnap her.
5. thou shalt preform sacrafices
6. thou shalt drink blood twice a week
7. thou shalt not lie, but when thou lies, lie well.
8. thou shalt not steal if thou will get caught.
9. thou shalt not be nice to furry animals.  they are sacrafices
10. thou shalt not attend any church. ever.

hey, it doens't hurt anyone!

you can just look away.

(note: i don't really belive that.  sorry for any offense done-  it's to show what i feel about the ten commandments.  that's what it's like to me. )

wow, I completely agree with you.
I'm Indian, should I display India's list of commandments as well? If they display ours, then other cultures should be recognized as well. separation of church and state, come on people.

[*kryogenix*]

One of the most important foundations of which this nation was built upon is freedom; this neccessarily includes religious freedom. Though other major religions did not partake in the creation of America, they have become a key ingredient in this country's melting pot, and perhaps, have come to represent the image that America is famed for: diversity.

Diversity is America and America is diversity. One cannot be the same without the other and America cannot hope to uphold the ideals of its Founding Fathers without diversity.

Fairness, in this case, is diversity; it is not choosing one over the others.

It's not choosing one over the others, it's recognizing the historical impact of that document on our nation's history.

I fail to see how the presentation of the Ten Commandments hurts diversity or promotes one religion over the other.

its not hurting anyone its the fact that it will make the country seem like a catholic/christian/jewish country and other religions that do not follow the ten commandments are not welcomed. its not as eays as "if you dont like it dont look at it", somebody will find offence to it and strike up something. if the ten comandments are displayed y not buddha? and etc..

Again, the reason why the Ten Commandments were put up is their historical impact. Buddha had nothing to do with the founding of our country.

i don't really belive that. sorry for any offense done- it's to show what i feel about the ten commandments. that's what it's like to me.

I don't see how the display of a historical document makes our government biased.

wow, I completely agree with you.
I'm Indian, should I display India's list of commandments as well? If they display ours, then other cultures should be recognized as well. separation of church and state, come on people.

The same reason why we don't display the laws of Cuba, Thailand or Canada in our courts. It's completely irrelevent.